The future for EV cars?..

[shaggy]

My ev (Kia e-Niro) finally arrived last week, loving it so far, and getting used to the recharging malarkey. My plan is to use local public charging and not get a charger put on the house, but as more and more evs appear, that may have to change. Based on the comments here about having cheaper overnight tariffs, I had a look around, but due to the energy market at the moment, no-one seems to be offering these at the moment. Hopefully if/when I'm looking at getting a charger, these overnight tariffs will be available again.

In the meantime, the public charging seems to be a doddle (and free where I am, at least for now), so the smug-o-meter is quite high (although slightly less so as the diesel price has fallen back a bit). I am having to get used to the idea of recharging much more often that I was used to refuelling (600+ miles per tank of diesel, ~150 miles on the ev if I keep the battery between the recommended 20% and 80%), but hopefully it will just become habit. I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh easily so far, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to the range in winter when I need to use the heater and also when I strap a canoe to the roof!

I'm hoping that Chargeplace Scotland and Podpoint will be sufficient up here, but for the occasional trip to Englandshire, is it worth signing up to any networks down there? Or just find chargers that take contactless payment? Are they more expensive per unit?

Worth looking at employers - I go into Gogarburn for NWG and the charging at 7KW is free. It's booked out during the day but totally empty when I go to the on-site gym during the evening. I've not paid to charge the car in 3 months.

They had 5 chargers but it looks like they've kitted out the perimeter car parking spots with chargers - I reckon about 300-400 charge points. They're not yet active so I've not used them, I'd anticipate they'll be more than 7kw but not sure if they'll remain free.

I've not had call to use the Edinburgh-provided chargers yet - are you finding it easy to find vacant chargers?

I've also not gone for a home charge point, simply because we missed the boat re the grants and I'm a tight sod. I did by a granny charger for £130 which we can use in a pinch. Also lets us go see family and friends a bit further afield if we can top up battery whilst we're there.

One observation/whinge - there are a few free chargers at shops where the charge points seem continually blocked up by the same cars. I can only assume they are employees of the shops, given most car parks will have time limits, which does frustrate the ambition of having a public infrastructure. It takes the piss a bit given many of these will doubtless have taken grants to fit these points with public use in mind. Mortonhall garden centre, I'm looking at you here. I've never had a problem at tesco in Longstone or Dalkeith or at Sainsburys at Chesser, but these I'm pretty sure don't get above 4KW.

So not only do you not pay ‘road tax’ or the government applied tax on fuel you also want to charge for free? Where do you see yourself as contributing to the overall taxation regime for your motoring?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

My ev (Kia e-Niro) finally arrived last week, loving it so far, and getting used to the recharging malarkey. My plan is to use local public charging and not get a charger put on the house, but as more and more evs appear, that may have to change. Based on the comments here about having cheaper overnight tariffs, I had a look around, but due to the energy market at the moment, no-one seems to be offering these at the moment. Hopefully if/when I'm looking at getting a charger, these overnight tariffs will be available again.

In the meantime, the public charging seems to be a doddle (and free where I am, at least for now), so the smug-o-meter is quite high (although slightly less so as the diesel price has fallen back a bit). I am having to get used to the idea of recharging much more often that I was used to refuelling (600+ miles per tank of diesel, ~150 miles on the ev if I keep the battery between the recommended 20% and 80%), but hopefully it will just become habit. I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh easily so far, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to the range in winter when I need to use the heater and also when I strap a canoe to the roof!

I'm hoping that Chargeplace Scotland and Podpoint will be sufficient up here, but for the occasional trip to Englandshire, is it worth signing up to any networks down there? Or just find chargers that take contactless payment? Are they more expensive per unit?

Worth looking at employers - I go into Gogarburn for NWG and the charging at 7KW is free. It's booked out during the day but totally empty when I go to the on-site gym during the evening. I've not paid to charge the car in 3 months.

They had 5 chargers but it looks like they've kitted out the perimeter car parking spots with chargers - I reckon about 300-400 charge points. They're not yet active so I've not used them, I'd anticipate they'll be more than 7kw but not sure if they'll remain free.

I've not had call to use the Edinburgh-provided chargers yet - are you finding it easy to find vacant chargers?

I've also not gone for a home charge point, simply because we missed the boat re the grants and I'm a tight sod. I did by a granny charger for £130 which we can use in a pinch. Also lets us go see family and friends a bit further afield if we can top up battery whilst we're there.

One observation/whinge - there are a few free chargers at shops where the charge points seem continually blocked up by the same cars. I can only assume they are employees of the shops, given most car parks will have time limits, which does frustrate the ambition of having a public infrastructure. It takes the piss a bit given many of these will doubtless have taken grants to fit these points with public use in mind. Mortonhall garden centre, I'm looking at you here. I've never had a problem at tesco in Longstone or Dalkeith or at Sainsburys at Chesser, but these I'm pretty sure don't get above 4KW.

So not only do you not pay ‘road tax’ or the government applied tax on fuel you also want to charge for free? Where do you see yourself as contributing to the overall taxation regime for your motoring?

Well, the VAT on the purchase price goes into the overall taxation pot (and evs are more expensive than ice cars) so there is a contribution. But that's not really the point.

The incentives, such as zero road tax and free charging, are to kick-start the market and encourage people to change their behaviour. But they won't be in place forever. It's already getting harder to find free charging. Zero road tax for evs will almost certainly be phased out, as it has been before for lower CO2 ice cars - for example, my Focus diesel is zero road tax, but the identical model bought a year later is not. (Another, non-motoring, example is that the feed-in tariff scheme for solar panels closed in 2019.) So evs will be contributing to the overall motoring taxation scheme soon enough.

And there's also the fact that I'm not burning fossil fuels directly (and some of the electricity is renewable) so it's greener, and I'm not contributing to air-quality issues in built-up areas.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

My ev (Kia e-Niro) finally arrived last week, loving it so far, and getting used to the recharging malarkey. My plan is to use local public charging and not get a charger put on the house, but as more and more evs appear, that may have to change. Based on the comments here about having cheaper overnight tariffs, I had a look around, but due to the energy market at the moment, no-one seems to be offering these at the moment. Hopefully if/when I'm looking at getting a charger, these overnight tariffs will be available again.

In the meantime, the public charging seems to be a doddle (and free where I am, at least for now), so the smug-o-meter is quite high (although slightly less so as the diesel price has fallen back a bit). I am having to get used to the idea of recharging much more often that I was used to refuelling (600+ miles per tank of diesel, ~150 miles on the ev if I keep the battery between the recommended 20% and 80%), but hopefully it will just become habit. I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh easily so far, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to the range in winter when I need to use the heater and also when I strap a canoe to the roof!

I'm hoping that Chargeplace Scotland and Podpoint will be sufficient up here, but for the occasional trip to Englandshire, is it worth signing up to any networks down there? Or just find chargers that take contactless payment? Are they more expensive per unit?

Worth looking at employers - I go into Gogarburn for NWG and the charging at 7KW is free. It's booked out during the day but totally empty when I go to the on-site gym during the evening. I've not paid to charge the car in 3 months.

They had 5 chargers but it looks like they've kitted out the perimeter car parking spots with chargers - I reckon about 300-400 charge points. They're not yet active so I've not used them, I'd anticipate they'll be more than 7kw but not sure if they'll remain free.

I've not had call to use the Edinburgh-provided chargers yet - are you finding it easy to find vacant chargers?

I've also not gone for a home charge point, simply because we missed the boat re the grants and I'm a tight sod. I did by a granny charger for £130 which we can use in a pinch. Also lets us go see family and friends a bit further afield if we can top up battery whilst we're there.

One observation/whinge - there are a few free chargers at shops where the charge points seem continually blocked up by the same cars. I can only assume they are employees of the shops, given most car parks will have time limits, which does frustrate the ambition of having a public infrastructure. It takes the piss a bit given many of these will doubtless have taken grants to fit these points with public use in mind. Mortonhall garden centre, I'm looking at you here. I've never had a problem at tesco in Longstone or Dalkeith or at Sainsburys at Chesser, but these I'm pretty sure don't get above 4KW.

I'm out in the sticks, and finding vacant spots for the free chargers has not been an issue yet - and there are also non-free chargers close by if absolutely necessary. Perhaps I am lucky and the town where I live is well provided-for. The next village has only two 7kW chargers, and they seem to be permanently occupied.

I work for a small company, my office is close to where I live, and there are no chargers here. Nor are there any plans to install any, as far as I know. I've seen a couple of chargers at other business premises, but I assume they are not available for the public and you'd need an RFID card to work them.

[Hal Jordan]

Plenty of excitement (OK, pragmatic enthusiasm) for the new, MG4, which seems to be following the path of the ZS EV and the MG5 in delivering a well-specced vehicle for comparatively low prices for those not concerned with badge snobbery, and who can suffer the slings and arrows of the classics crew wetting their Tena pads because the Chinese aren't making "sports cars".

Although the appallingly named MG Cyberster roadster may go done way to counter that, especially if they base it on bits of cars a decade older (MGB dig, folks!).

[shaggy]

Worth looking at employers - I go into Gogarburn for NWG and the charging at 7KW is free. It's booked out during the day but totally empty when I go to the on-site gym during the evening. I've not paid to charge the car in 3 months.

They had 5 chargers but it looks like they've kitted out the perimeter car parking spots with chargers - I reckon about 300-400 charge points. They're not yet active so I've not used them, I'd anticipate they'll be more than 7kw but not sure if they'll remain free.

I've not had call to use the Edinburgh-provided chargers yet - are you finding it easy to find vacant chargers?

I've also not gone for a home charge point, simply because we missed the boat re the grants and I'm a tight sod. I did by a granny charger for £130 which we can use in a pinch. Also lets us go see family and friends a bit further afield if we can top up battery whilst we're there.

One observation/whinge - there are a few free chargers at shops where the charge points seem continually blocked up by the same cars. I can only assume they are employees of the shops, given most car parks will have time limits, which does frustrate the ambition of having a public infrastructure. It takes the piss a bit given many of these will doubtless have taken grants to fit these points with public use in mind. Mortonhall garden centre, I'm looking at you here. I've never had a problem at tesco in Longstone or Dalkeith or at Sainsburys at Chesser, but these I'm pretty sure don't get above 4KW.

So not only do you not pay ‘road tax’ or the government applied tax on fuel you also want to charge for free? Where do you see yourself as contributing to the overall taxation regime for your motoring?

Well, the VAT on the purchase price goes into the overall taxation pot (and evs are more expensive than ice cars) so there is a contribution. But that's not really the point.

The incentives, such as zero road tax and free charging, are to kick-start the market and encourage people to change their behaviour. But they won't be in place forever. It's already getting harder to find free charging. Zero road tax for evs will almost certainly be phased out, as it has been before for lower CO2 ice cars - for example, my Focus diesel is zero road tax, but the identical model bought a year later is not. (Another, non-motoring, example is that the feed-in tariff scheme for solar panels closed in 2019.) So evs will be contributing to the overall motoring taxation scheme soon enough.

And there's also the fact that I'm not burning fossil fuels directly (and some of the electricity is renewable) so it's greener, and I'm not contributing to air-quality issues in built-up areas.

So from a moralistic point of view, which you have raised, I am still not sure the complaint of shortage of free charging stands as viable.

Going to be a real bitch when you get charged for the miles you drive, which will come, and all the freebies are taken away.

[inactionman]

My ev (Kia e-Niro) finally arrived last week, loving it so far, and getting used to the recharging malarkey. My plan is to use local public charging and not get a charger put on the house, but as more and more evs appear, that may have to change. Based on the comments here about having cheaper overnight tariffs, I had a look around, but due to the energy market at the moment, no-one seems to be offering these at the moment. Hopefully if/when I'm looking at getting a charger, these overnight tariffs will be available again.

In the meantime, the public charging seems to be a doddle (and free where I am, at least for now), so the smug-o-meter is quite high (although slightly less so as the diesel price has fallen back a bit). I am having to get used to the idea of recharging much more often that I was used to refuelling (600+ miles per tank of diesel, ~150 miles on the ev if I keep the battery between the recommended 20% and 80%), but hopefully it will just become habit. I'm getting 4.5 miles per kWh easily so far, but it'll be interesting to see what happens to the range in winter when I need to use the heater and also when I strap a canoe to the roof!

I'm hoping that Chargeplace Scotland and Podpoint will be sufficient up here, but for the occasional trip to Englandshire, is it worth signing up to any networks down there? Or just find chargers that take contactless payment? Are they more expensive per unit?

Worth looking at employers - I go into Gogarburn for NWG and the charging at 7KW is free. It's booked out during the day but totally empty when I go to the on-site gym during the evening. I've not paid to charge the car in 3 months.

They had 5 chargers but it looks like they've kitted out the perimeter car parking spots with chargers - I reckon about 300-400 charge points. They're not yet active so I've not used them, I'd anticipate they'll be more than 7kw but not sure if they'll remain free.

I've not had call to use the Edinburgh-provided chargers yet - are you finding it easy to find vacant chargers?

I've also not gone for a home charge point, simply because we missed the boat re the grants and I'm a tight sod. I did by a granny charger for £130 which we can use in a pinch. Also lets us go see family and friends a bit further afield if we can top up battery whilst we're there.

One observation/whinge - there are a few free chargers at shops where the charge points seem continually blocked up by the same cars. I can only assume they are employees of the shops, given most car parks will have time limits, which does frustrate the ambition of having a public infrastructure. It takes the piss a bit given many of these will doubtless have taken grants to fit these points with public use in mind. Mortonhall garden centre, I'm looking at you here. I've never had a problem at tesco in Longstone or Dalkeith or at Sainsburys at Chesser, but these I'm pretty sure don't get above 4KW.

So not only do you not pay ‘road tax’ or the government applied tax on fuel you also want to charge for free? Where do you see yourself as contributing to the overall taxation regime for your motoring?

Not sure - VAT on windscreen washer fluid?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

So not only do you not pay ‘road tax’ or the government applied tax on fuel you also want to charge for free? Where do you see yourself as contributing to the overall taxation regime for your motoring?

Well, the VAT on the purchase price goes into the overall taxation pot (and evs are more expensive than ice cars) so there is a contribution. But that's not really the point.

The incentives, such as zero road tax and free charging, are to kick-start the market and encourage people to change their behaviour. But they won't be in place forever. It's already getting harder to find free charging. Zero road tax for evs will almost certainly be phased out, as it has been before for lower CO2 ice cars - for example, my Focus diesel is zero road tax, but the identical model bought a year later is not. (Another, non-motoring, example is that the feed-in tariff scheme for solar panels closed in 2019.) So evs will be contributing to the overall motoring taxation scheme soon enough.

And there's also the fact that I'm not burning fossil fuels directly (and some of the electricity is renewable) so it's greener, and I'm not contributing to air-quality issues in built-up areas.

So from a moralistic point of view, which you have raised, I am still not sure the complaint of shortage of free charging stands as viable.

Going to be a real bitch when you get charged for the miles you drive, which will come, and all the freebies are taken away.

I'm not sure anyone is complaining about lack of free charging - though any ev driver will be happy to take advantage while the opportunity still exists. I'm pretty sure everyone who has decided to make the change over has priced in the cost of charging as it is certainly not going to be free forever (and for many it isn't free now). Anything that is free for now is pure upside.

I will admit to feeling slightly smug for the moment though (I won't pretend it's entirely to do with being green). Perhaps that is what has riled you?

[inactionman]

Tesco superstores around us all have free charging, fairly sure it's 7kw too.

I've used a few and they seem to be limited down to 4kW, might just be the time of day or loading on them - I tend to use them at the same time of day.

My car's also a bit older so it might just be a compatibility thing, although the car should be good for up to 22kW it has been a bit temperamental with certain chargers (I think we broke the charge points at dynamic earth, apols to all concerned).

[inactionman]

Well, the VAT on the purchase price goes into the overall taxation pot (and evs are more expensive than ice cars) so there is a contribution. But that's not really the point.

The incentives, such as zero road tax and free charging, are to kick-start the market and encourage people to change their behaviour. But they won't be in place forever. It's already getting harder to find free charging. Zero road tax for evs will almost certainly be phased out, as it has been before for lower CO2 ice cars - for example, my Focus diesel is zero road tax, but the identical model bought a year later is not. (Another, non-motoring, example is that the feed-in tariff scheme for solar panels closed in 2019.) So evs will be contributing to the overall motoring taxation scheme soon enough.

And there's also the fact that I'm not burning fossil fuels directly (and some of the electricity is renewable) so it's greener, and I'm not contributing to air-quality issues in built-up areas.

So from a moralistic point of view, which you have raised, I am still not sure the complaint of shortage of free charging stands as viable.

Going to be a real bitch when you get charged for the miles you drive, which will come, and all the freebies are taken away.

I'm not sure anyone is complaining about lack of free charging - though any ev driver will be happy to take advantage while the opportunity still exists. I'm pretty sure everyone who has decided to make the change over has priced in the cost of charging as it is certainly not going to be free forever (and for many it isn't free now). Anything that is free for now is pure upside.

I will admit to feeling slightly smug for the moment though (I won't pretend it's entirely to do with being green). Perhaps that is what has riled you?

I bought an EV as I was getting massive guilty pangs driving the Land Rover on the nursery run.

That my employer makes charging free to staff is something for them to decide, and NWG has firmly committed to many climate goals so it's part of a broader set of activities they're happy to fund. They'll still pay various rates on the electricity they provide to me.

[Guy Smiley]

How DARE you invest in cleaner technology that will reduce the seriously under reported effects of air pollution while also contributing to the essential reduction in atmospheric carbon loading while temporary benefits are in place for early adopters.

How DARE you.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

How DARE you invest in cleaner technology that will reduce the seriously under reported effects of air pollution while also contributing to the essential reduction in atmospheric carbon loading while temporary benefits are in place for early adopters.

How DARE you.

Well, quite

[Dogbert]

So from a moralistic point of view, which you have raised, I am still not sure the complaint of shortage of free charging stands as viable.

Going to be a real bitch when you get charged for the miles you drive, which will come, and all the freebies are taken away.

I'm not sure anyone is complaining about lack of free charging - though any ev driver will be happy to take advantage while the opportunity still exists. I'm pretty sure everyone who has decided to make the change over has priced in the cost of charging as it is certainly not going to be free forever (and for many it isn't free now). Anything that is free for now is pure upside.

I will admit to feeling slightly smug for the moment though (I won't pretend it's entirely to do with being green). Perhaps that is what has riled you?

I bought an EV as I was getting massive guilty pangs driving the Land Rover on the nursery run.

That my employer makes charging free to staff is something for them to decide, and NWG has firmly committed to many climate goals so it's part of a broader set of activities they're happy to fund. They'll still pay various rates on the electricity they provide to me.

well the other option would be......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38t7o4zyjU

0-60 under 5 seconds -in a Defender

I'm in preliminary discussion with a couple of companies to get the old girl converted (Not told the wife yet )

[Tichtheid]

well the other option would be......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B38t7o4zyjU

0-60 under 5 seconds -in a Defender

I'm in preliminary discussion with a couple of companies to get the old girl converted (Not told the wife yet )

0-60 in 4.2 seconds in a vehicle with the aerodynamics of a very large sheep.

I posted an off road vid of their work somewhere on the bored, if I had the dosh I'd definitely go down that route, my old Series 3 109 is the best vehicle I've ever had

[inactionman]

A defender has always been on my bucket list, but common sense (a.k.a. the missus) has always over-ruled it.

My old next door neighbour in Bath was a retired merchant mariner and helped out a Romanian orphanage each summer, he maintained an absolutely battered LWB series III (I think- it had freehubs you had to manually set to 2WD for on-road) to lug all the stuff over. It was almost gaffer taped together but it kept going - with a fair few interventions, it must be said.

Out of interest, our defender-owning folk, how much running repair and maintenance do they need?

[Dogbert]

A defender has always been on my bucket list, but common sense (a.k.a. the missus) has always over-ruled it.

My old next door neighbour in Bath was a retired merchant mariner and helped out a Romanian orphanage each summer, he maintained an absolutely battered LWB series III (I think- it had freehubs you had to manually set to 2WD for on-road) to lug all the stuff over. It was almost gaffer taped together but it kept going - with a fair few interventions, it must be said.

Out of interest, our defender-owning folk, how much running repair and maintenance do they need?

In the past 6 years about 5.5 K to keep my one sorted & on the road - and that's with me doing my own servicing

[Tichtheid]

I had to replace the crankshaft on my old Series 3, it was lucky I had access to a barn with a block and tackle to get the engine out, I took the opportunity to more or less do a full re-build. (Haynes manuals are heaven-sent)

The Defenders have a lot more to them, the old 109s and 88s could be stripped down with a couple of spanners and a screwdriver

[shaggy]

Well, the VAT on the purchase price goes into the overall taxation pot (and evs are more expensive than ice cars) so there is a contribution. But that's not really the point.

The incentives, such as zero road tax and free charging, are to kick-start the market and encourage people to change their behaviour. But they won't be in place forever. It's already getting harder to find free charging. Zero road tax for evs will almost certainly be phased out, as it has been before for lower CO2 ice cars - for example, my Focus diesel is zero road tax, but the identical model bought a year later is not. (Another, non-motoring, example is that the feed-in tariff scheme for solar panels closed in 2019.) So evs will be contributing to the overall motoring taxation scheme soon enough.

And there's also the fact that I'm not burning fossil fuels directly (and some of the electricity is renewable) so it's greener, and I'm not contributing to air-quality issues in built-up areas.

So from a moralistic point of view, which you have raised, I am still not sure the complaint of shortage of free charging stands as viable.

Going to be a real bitch when you get charged for the miles you drive, which will come, and all the freebies are taken away.

I'm not sure anyone is complaining about lack of free charging - though any ev driver will be happy to take advantage while the opportunity still exists. I'm pretty sure everyone who has decided to make the change over has priced in the cost of charging as it is certainly not going to be free forever (and for many it isn't free now). Anything that is free for now is pure upside.

I will admit to feeling slightly smug for the moment though (I won't pretend it's entirely to do with being green). Perhaps that is what has riled you?

Riled me? Really?

I just find it rather pathetic that people complain on minor aspects like access to charging when it is utterly irrelevant to what you are doing.

I also find it pathetic when people find the most minor point to complain about something when millions of people are in real shit at the moment.

[Guy Smiley]

Who complained?

[inactionman]

I did.

I like a good whinge.

I'd have thought, given Shaggy's clear distress at perceived misuse of funds, he'd be all over the recipients of government funded grants for infrastructure blocking the use of that infrastructure, but no. It's those pesky EV drivers he's after, and their unrealistic and heinous - pathetic, even - expectations of being able to use publicly subsidised infrastructure for its intended purpose.

[Slick]

It's definitely one of the more bizarre rants I've seen on here