The Rugby Championship

[TheFrog]

Really happy for the Argies. I hope they go on to win the championship. The world cup is going to be one of the most open in the world.

[Dan54]

The one good thing after today's results are that this year the TRC is heading for an exciting end. In the past it was a boring competition.

I'd love to see the Pumas winning it.

Must admit I wouldn't be averse to Pumas coming out on top.

[Gumboot]

First loss to Argentina on home soil.

First time we've lost 3 consecutive tests at home.

Lost 6 of our last 8 tests (probably also a first, but I can't be arsed looking it up).

I think it's safe to say this is the worst All Blacks side of the professional era.

Reckon that Cane will be made the next escape goat. Followed by McLeod, then Cron, then Ryan, then Schmidt... but never fear, Foster's safe.

It's just a complete fucking shambles really...

[Ymx]

Oh my gosh. So the “science” is that the All Blacks had lows and have then bounced back. Therefore Foster is the right coach. That logic is huge…

Just a few comments.

These coaches were successful head coaches before hand.

98 was off the back of some major player losses and rebuilding. Zinzan, Fitzy, Bunce all left.

They were actually pretty good in 99. The France loss was a giant upset.

[Enzedder]

Sounds as though it was a turkey-shoot.

That makes us turkeys - right?

Foster has been incompetent for 20 years and has driven a lot of us away from supporting the ABs.

Not good ratings - don't think we have the right players for next year to be honest.

[Tichtheid]

I think the nub of that article was near the end, New Zealand don't have the best two players in the world in every position any more, and certainly don't have the calibre of Carter, McCaw, Nonu, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Kaino, Read, peak Savea snr, peak Whitelock and Retallick, Coles etc

They were some of the best players ever to play the game and the wheel turns, there is no way that level of players gets churned out every year, not from any system.

Whilst NZ have been in decline other nations have improved.

[Gumboot]

Oh my gosh. So the “science” is that the All Blacks had lows and have then bounced back.

The Jo'burg test was a dead cat bounce for this side.

Not good ratings - don't think we have the right players for next year to be honest.

Yep, David Moffett may have some batshit crazy political views, but I agree with him on this: we can't win RWC 2023 so we should just start planning for '27 instead.

[TheFrog]

Losing to a team coached by Cheika must hurt for Foster...

[Enzedder]

Losing to a team coached by Cheika must hurt for Foster...

I trust the players are hurting as well

[Sards]

Our forwards could not put a drive together for life.We had like 10 lineouts 5 m out. I hope Rasnaber give at least Deon Fourie a chance in 2 or 6. Start Gelant in 15, Willemse to 12.

Time for Dweba, Duane and PSDT to rest.

One Fourie can replace two of them.

We have been through this multiskilled jack of all trades kak for too long. Time for specialists to do their primary job.
And a coach that is a coach...not a physiotherapist

[Sards]

Vok me....

I wake up today and it's all about the referee. What a disgrace to carry on like this.
It's a culture amplified by Rassie's hour long video that we must get rid of.
If you want to blame someone blame the coach.
We have not evolved one bit in our rugby since 2007 when Jake White's rush defence and box kicking won us 2 world cups shared with Rassie just recently.
Selections, favorites, no ypung player development no game plan beyond kick and chase.

It's far easier to blame the ref it seems.

[Enzedder]

There's really only one thing left that we can do.

FFS, Bring Back Beaver!!

[Sards]

You know what hurts even more.
When the Kiwis say that Foster had one good outing against the struggling Springboks.....



Vok man........

[Guy Smiley]

You know what hurts even more.
When the Kiwis say that Foster had one good outing against the struggling Springboks.....



Vok man........

Yeah… even Ian Foster can beat you.

[OomStruisbaai]

Time for Dweba, Duane and PSDT to rest.

One Fourie can replace two of them.

We have been through this multiskilled jack of all trades kak for too long. Time for specialists to do their primary job.
And a coach that is a coach...not a physiotherapist

As a Sharks supporter you should be use to losing and having kak coaches.

Us Stormers know there is a better coach and winning trophies.

[Ymx]

Oh my gosh. So the “science” is that the All Blacks had lows and have then bounced back.

The Jo'burg test was a dead cat bounce for this side.

Not good ratings - don't think we have the right players for next year to be honest.

Yep, David Moffett may have some batshit crazy political views, but I agree with him on this: we can't win RWC 2023 so we should just start planning for '27 instead.

It was indeed a dead cat bounce. Death throes even.

The pure energy the players had to put in to beat the Saffers. They can’t get up like that every game.


Disagree strongly we don’t have the players.

We have a seriously good tight five which was shown by the last couple of games. Perhaps not so much depth, but we never really had depth here.

Loosies we have huge quality. Just the wrongs ones on the pitch, or playing in the wrong position.

Half backs. 2 world class.

Fly half. Mo and BB

Centres. Perhaps we might try playing some actual centres here !

Back 3. We’ve never had a shortages of world class here, and don’t today. Just mis firing at the moment


Coach. We have a brilliant coach waiting in the wings. We just keep picking the wrong one every match.

[OomStruisbaai]

Vok me....

I wake up today and it's all about the referee. What a disgrace to carry on like this.
It's a culture amplified by Rassie's hour long video that we must get rid of.
If you want to blame someone blame the coach.
We have not evolved one bit in our rugby since 2007 when Jake White's rush defence and box kicking won us 2 world cups shared with Rassie just recently.
Selections, favorites, no ypung player development no game plan beyond kick and chase.

It's far easier to blame the ref it seems.

Youare worse then Keo lovers.

Coming from a cunt like you believing there is a reffing complot with the Stormers.

[OomStruisbaai]

Oh my gosh. So the “science” is that the All Blacks had lows and have then bounced back.

The Jo'burg test was a dead cat bounce for this side.

Not good ratings - don't think we have the right players for next year to be honest.

Yep, David Moffett may have some batshit crazy political views, but I agree with him on this: we can't win RWC 2023 so we should just start planning for '27 instead.

It was indeed a dead cat bounce. Death throes even.

The pure energy the players had to put in to beat the Saffers. They can’t get up like that every game.


Disagree strongly we don’t have the players.

We have a seriously good tight five which was shown by the last couple of games. Perhaps not so much depth, but we never really had depth here.

Loosies we have huge quality. Just the wrongs ones on the pitch, or playing in the wrong position.

Half backs. 2 world class.

Fly half. Mo and BB

Centres. Perhaps we might try playing some actual centres here !

Back 3. We’ve never had a shortages of world class here, and don’t today. Just mis firing at the moment


Coach. We have a brilliant coach waiting in the wings. We just keep picking the wrong one every match.

You are fortunate. We have no options plus a lot of real politics.

[Sards]

One Fourie can replace two of them.

We have been through this multiskilled jack of all trades kak for too long. Time for specialists to do their primary job.
And a coach that is a coach...not a physiotherapist

As a Sharks supporter you should be use to losing and having kak coaches.

Us Stormers know there is a better coach and winning trophies.

Well we are dealing with your pels right now and it's looking ugly. You can gladly have them back

[OomStruisbaai]

It's so hard to win in NZ. Even the All Blacks can't win there.

[Chilli]

It's so hard to win in NZ. Even the All Blacks can't win there.

[Niegs]

There's really only one thing left that we can do.

FFS, Bring Back Beaver!!

Better...

[PCPhil]

It's so hard to win in NZ. Even the All Blacks can't win there.

[ia801310]

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nienaber-chopping-block/

Nienaber in trouble.

Ultimately, winning is the most important thing.

[Sards]

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nienaber-chopping-block/

Nienaber in trouble.

Ultimately, winning is the most important thing.

I can't believe we trusted our boks to a friend of Rassie's with no coaching experience. Insanity

[OomStruisbaai]

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/nienaber-chopping-block/

Nienaber in trouble.

Ultimately, winning is the most important thing.

I can't believe we trusted our boks to a friend of Rassie's with no coaching experience. Insanity

Keo shite. Only cockroaches or sniffing dose believe him

[Dan54]

Sounds as though it was a turkey-shoot.

That makes us turkeys - right?

Foster has been incompetent for 20 years and has driven a lot of us away from supporting the ABs.

Not good ratings - don't think we have the right players for next year to be honest.

Funnily enough NZer, Foster or any coach has never driven me away from supporting the ABs, and genuinely don't know anyone who have. Most that are pissed off are AB supporters, and non supporters don't really give 2 f***s who coaches or plays for them.
I would be very surprised if any Bok supporters have stopped supporting them with their coach etc.

[Gumboot]

Disagree strongly we don’t have the players.

We have a seriously good tight five which was shown by the last couple of games. Perhaps not so much depth, but we never really had depth here.

Loosies we have huge quality. Just the wrongs ones on the pitch, or playing in the wrong position.

Half backs. 2 world class.

Fly half. Mo and BB

Centres. Perhaps we might try playing some actual centres here !

Back 3. We’ve never had a shortages of world class here, and don’t today. Just mis firing at the moment


Coach. We have a brilliant coach waiting in the wings. We just keep picking the wrong one every match.

I'm more inclined to agree with Moffett tbh, and with this bloke...

The All Blacks are not very good
...

Maybe all the talk about coaching is a smokescreen, although cunning Michael Cheika ensured it stayed in the middle of the room by talking up Scott Robertson. It could be a simple matter of a talent deficit compared to the two-time world champion iteration of the All Blacks.

Look through the squad and single out players that might be on the shortlist for what Richie McCaw would have labelled GAB status – great All Black.

There are not many.

There is Beauden Barrett, but the 2015-17 version of Barrett. There is Brodie Retallick, but the 2014-17 version of Retallick. There is Dane Coles, but the 2013-16 version of Coles.

There is Aaron Smith and Sam Whitelock, who have both maintained remarkable consistency to go with their longevity, but have a combined age of 66 and 243 tests of mileage of their chassis.

That’s probably it. Others might join the GAB ranks. Ardie Savea may, but probably not at No 8. He was specifically targeted by Argentina’s line speed and neutralised.

If you close your eyes and imagine best-case scenarios, maybe one of the young front rowers, or the extraordinarily talented but out of position Will Jordan, or the explosively talented but inconsistent Jordie Barrett, or the wonderfully gifted but too-often-inconsequential Richie Mo’unga.

Maybe.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/28-08-2 ... -very-good

[Guy Smiley]

Jesus, what a steaming pile of crap that is.

[Grandpa]

A British Lions coach doesn't get long to make his squad competitive...

Razor could turn the All Blacks into potential World Cup winners.... and I think he could do it even if his first game in charge was the first world cup group game... as long as he picked the World Cup squad himself...

[Ymx]

Morning Guy.

[Gumboot]

Well, I don't think there's any "maybe" that the coach is a dud, but he makes a valid point about some of our senior players being past their best. Was it Grizz Wyllie who said, after they'd dropped Buck, that it's usually better to drop 'em a year too soon than a year too late?

[Ymx]

A British Lions coach doesn't get long to make his squad competitive...

Razor could turn the All Blacks into potential World Cup winners.... and I think he could do it even if his first game in charge was the first world cup group game... as long as he picked the World Cup squad himself...

Imagine how foolish Robinson and Stewart Mitchell (chairman) are feeling after backing Foster so publicly, and no doubt expecting the last bok test to be turning point.

They can’t u turn now. But by god they will be hiding behind their sofas watching every AB match.

Scotland first win is the next milestone on fosters glorious achievements. Or is it losing the Bledisloe? Or is it losing by a record of 22 points?

[Ymx]

Well, I don't think there's any "maybe" that the coach is a dud, but he makes a valid point about some of our senior players being past their best. Was it Grizz Wyllie who said, after they'd dropped Buck, that it's usually better to drop 'em a year too soon than a year too late?

Isn’t it a pretty stupid exercise rating the players about their greatness during the tenure of a dreadful coach .

It’s about as stupid as Foster complaining about playing all these higher ranked teams.

[Gumboot]

Well, I don't think there's any "maybe" that the coach is a dud, but he makes a valid point about some of our senior players being past their best. Was it Grizz Wyllie who said, after they'd dropped Buck, that it's usually better to drop 'em a year too soon than a year too late?

Isn’t it a pretty stupid exercise rating the players about their greatness during the tenure of a dreadful coach .

It’s about as stupid as Foster complaining about playing all these higher ranked teams.

I think the point he's making is more about players in the squad whose current form either doesn't justify their selection, or who look like they'll probably be well past their use by dates in a year's time. Some of them (eg Taylor and Coles) already are imo, and much as it pains me to admit it, I'd now include Cane as well.

[Grandpa]

Well, I don't think there's any "maybe" that the coach is a dud, but he makes a valid point about some of our senior players being past their best. Was it Grizz Wyllie who said, after they'd dropped Buck, that it's usually better to drop 'em a year too soon than a year too late?

Isn’t it a pretty stupid exercise rating the players about their greatness during the tenure of a dreadful coach .

It’s about as stupid as Foster complaining about playing all these higher ranked teams.

I think the point he's making is more about players in the squad whose current form either doesn't justify their selection, or who look like they'll probably be well past their use by dates in a year's time. Some of them (eg Taylor and Coles) already are imo, and much as it pains me to admit it, I'd now include Cane as well.

What if Razor doesn't pick any of these players? Then it's an invalid point...

And even if he picks some of them.. and they perform, it's an invalid point....

The jury is out on any player (maybe apart from Cane) until there is a proper coach in charge....

[Guy Smiley]

Well, I don't think there's any "maybe" that the coach is a dud, but he makes a valid point about some of our senior players being past their best. Was it Grizz Wyllie who said, after they'd dropped Buck, that it's usually better to drop 'em a year too soon than a year too late?

Isn’t it a pretty stupid exercise rating the players about their greatness during the tenure of a dreadful coach .

It’s about as stupid as Foster complaining about playing all these higher ranked teams.

I think the point he's making is more about players in the squad whose current form either doesn't justify their selection, or who look like they'll probably be well past their use by dates in a year's time. Some of them (eg Taylor and Coles) already are imo, and much as it pains me to admit it, I'd now include Cane as well.

I've got no issue with the suggestion that some players aren't as good as the best players we've seen assembled within one great team. I think I've probably made a similar point myself a few times.

I do have an issue with the sentiment running through that article that defends Foster and his coaching. The theme seems to be that the coach isn't actually that bad because some of the players suck.

I like March Hinton's take myself...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opi ... c-ignominy

Shame on you, New Zealand Rugby. You had the chance to address this All Blacks malaise and you cowered behind your politically correct new-age board and did nothing. You froze, at a key moment in time, so is it any wonder that your flagship team does something similar over and over again on the field?

There are many takeaways from Saturday night’s latest chapter in a sorry tale of All Black ignominy in 2022, the historic 25-18 home defeat to Argentina in Christchurch, but one stands supreme. In so many ways NZ Rugby – the monolithic organisation with the patent lack of courage and foresight – now has the rugby team it deserves.

It is a rugby team that has just lost its first home match to Argentina, which has now dropped six of its last eight tests, which has tumbled to three straight defeats on home soil for the first time in 119 years of history, and which has won just two of six internationals in 2022. The so-called aura of the All Blacks has disappeared in a flurry of ineptitude.

The All Blacks apologists had cried from the rooftops following the epic Ellis Park victory over the Springboks just a couple of weeks ago that a new dawn was upon us. That the mighty New Zealanders had rediscovered their mojo. Don’t worry, the blinkered ones bellowed, Fozzie has got this.

Head coach Ian Foster glowered at the media and scolded us for daring to criticise. The senior players gathered behind “our coach” and backed the bloke that picks them. (Big surprise!) The mighty All Blacks publicity machine rumbled into life, with a range of former players declaring that the crisis was over.

The shame, the crime even, is that NZ Rugby swallowed it and U-turned on a clear plan to institute change. A review of sorts had been scheduled following the South African trip – unprecedented given as no coach is held to account two matches into a six-game competition – and clearly it had been a trapdoor in the event that things really turned to custard in the republic.

This is just not a very good rugby team. There are too many once outstanding players on the back side of their careers, and the new faces are simply not the world-class types we have become used to. How many of this group make a World XV? Ardie Savea is truly the only one you would pick, hand on heart.

And this is not a group that in any way maximises abilities. And they need to. Their execution with ball in hand is often clunky. Argentina’s spirited defence left them with few answers in Christchurch. They were also bossed at the breakdown. Again. And the way the lineout disintegrated at the finish was disheartening, to say the least. They crumbled when the game was on the line.

Ex-Ireland coach Joe Schmidt has been hailed as a saviour. But that is probably over-stating his value. Same with new forwards guru Jason Ryan. They’re capable types, for sure, but not miracle workers. Back in 2020 Sir Graham Henry remarked at the start of the Foster era that Dave Rennie should have been coaching the All Blacks. Those words seem prophetic now.

A well-coached team would have battled its way out of a tight spot on Saturday night in Christchurch. It was hardly an Argentina performance for the ages. Almost any All Blacks side of the professional era would have negotiated a tricky path.

Not this one. Not the outfit NZ Rugby has rubber-stamped through to the World Cup. There is little more than a year until France23 kicks off. And a world of problems to fix.

[Grandpa]

A British Lions coach doesn't get long to make his squad competitive...

Razor could turn the All Blacks into potential World Cup winners.... and I think he could do it even if his first game in charge was the first world cup group game... as long as he picked the World Cup squad himself...

Imagine how foolish Robinson and Stewart Mitchell (chairman) are feeling after backing Foster so publicly, and no doubt expecting the last bok test to be turning point.

They can’t u turn now. But by god they will be hiding behind their sofas watching every AB match.

Scotland first win is the next milestone on fosters glorious achievements. Or is it losing the Bledisloe? Or is it losing by a record of 22 points?

If Foster loses the next three games... there is no way he can continue... I'd fear for his safety!

[Guy Smiley]

Morning Guy.

Morning Broseph

[Gumboot]

What if Razor doesn't pick any of these players? Then it's an invalid point...

And even if he picks some of them.. and they perform, it's an invalid point....

The jury is out on any player (maybe apart from Cane) until there is a proper coach in charge....

True, but Razor's not the coach (yet) so it's a moot point.

I can't really understand how you think the only player who needs to be dropped is Cane. I can think of at least half a dozen players who shouldn't have even made the initial squad for the Ireland series, and who I can't believe are still in consideration for next year. I know the players don't select themselves, but this is a very average ABs squad, even compared to many of our not-so-great teams of the past.