Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

[Hal Jordan]

The problem with hydrogen is that it's a drag chain on decarbonisation at present. Pretty much all of it is generated by fossil fuel processes, and whilst there is a coming hope for renewable, the "the only emission is water vapour" and the easy to understand analogy with gas - pipe bring fuel, fuel burn, warm good - allows politicians to feel comfortable with it (and the honking donations from oil and gas don't help).

This means they look at what seems to be an easy option, especially when compared with a total shift in how the grid is managed as we have to stop burning stuff.

With energy, it should be

Reduce
Reduce
Reduce
Insulate
Insulate
Insulate
Generate as near as carbon free as can be managed, whether self-generated or via the grid.

The problem is that this requires regulations and strong enforcement, an absolute anathema to the current crop of Britannia Unchained cunts shitting all over the face of the country, allied to the ability to look beyond the current electoral cycle, which is largely beyond any politician.

[Biffer]

Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

[Raggs]

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering

[petej]

The problem with hydrogen is that it's a drag chain on decarbonisation at present. Pretty much all of it is generated by fossil fuel processes, and whilst there is a coming hope for renewable, the "the only emission is water vapour" and the easy to understand analogy with gas - pipe bring fuel, fuel burn, warm good - allows politicians to feel comfortable with it (and the honking donations from oil and gas don't help).

This means they look at what seems to be an easy option, especially when compared with a total shift in how the grid is managed as we have to stop burning stuff.

With energy, it should be

Reduce
Reduce
Reduce
Insulate
Insulate
Insulate
Generate as near as carbon free as can be managed, whether self-generated or via the grid.

The problem is that this requires regulations and strong enforcement, an absolute anathema to the current crop of Britannia Unchained cunts shitting all over the face of the country, allied to the ability to look beyond the current electoral cycle, which is largely beyond any politician.

I'm generally iffy about it when mentioned by politicians because of the reasons mentioned but consider the board to not be such a bunch of immoral charlatans so safe to mention as a part of decarbonisation.

[Biffer]

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering

More than half of it is home storage tbh. Half the homes in Britain having a battery pack the size of the biggest ones in cars is around a TWh of storage.

[Raggs]

I generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering

More than half of it is home storage tbh. Half the homes in Britain having a battery pack the size of the biggest ones in cars is around a TWh of storage.

I can't see many people having more than 10kwh of home storage. Most not even that (apartments etc).

[Paddington Bear]

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

[laurent]

Looks like The UK being dirty feckers will soon get you in more trouble

https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/ ... _3244.html

Basically reneging on more of the brexit agreements...

[Tichtheid]

If freedom means anything it must mean the right to pollute our own waters (and those adjoining), renege on every treaty we've ever signed and to say it's the fault of all those who opposed the idiotic path in the first place.


I was in Mersea for a few days over last weekend and into this week. The only thing that is there is the sailing and the oyster vendors. Normally I'd be all over the oysters at 70p a pop, but not after this pumping literal shite into the sea.

If my livelihood relied on selling oysters without the chance of poisoning someone, I'd consider taking legal advice as to what recourse I had.

[SaintK]

If freedom means anything it must mean the right to pollute our own waters (and those adjoining), renege on every treaty we've ever signed and to say it's the fault of all those who opposed the idiotic path in the first place.


I was in Mersea for a few days over last weekend and into this week. The only thing that is there is the sailing and the oyster vendors. Normally I'd be all over the oysters at 70p a pop, but not after this pumping literal shite into the sea.

If my livelihood relied on selling oysters without the chance of poisoning someone, I'd consider taking legal advice as to what recourse I had.

You would probably have been fine. Looks like all the dumping was along the mouth of the Thames estuary

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

[petej]

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

There never is going to be one solution. In one of the rare instances that the Bumblecunt got something right was when he backed pretty much every vaccine going for covid. Something similar for energy is required as you will win far more than you will lose and I can't see there being an excess of energy (overall) and we have the capability to export it in some form or another.

[GogLais]

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

Do you have link to more info on this? A quick Google didn’t bring up anything and I’m interested in where it might go. They’d better not drown Cwm Pennant.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

Do you have link to more info on this? A quick Google didn’t bring up anything and I’m interested in where it might go. They’d better not drown Cwm Pennant.

It's really close.

https://www.snowdoniapumpedhydro.com/

[GogLais]

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

Do you have link to more info on this? A quick Google didn’t bring up anything and I’m interested in where it might go. They’d better not drown Cwm Pennant.

It's really close.

https://www.snowdoniapumpedhydro.com/

Thanks for that, good stuff. A cousin of mine did time for an over-zealous (some would say) attempt to prevent the flooding of Tryweryn in the 60s. Wouldn't like him to get into trouble again.

[I like neeps]

Seems Truss is plowing ahead but cutting taxes rather than capping energy prices or windfall taxes on producers.

In many ways, I think you do have to have energy prices that encourage middle and top earners to reduce demand quite a bit as this crisis isn't ending for a few years. However, it's just unrealistic to assume people are going to rush to spend because VAT is 5% lower and their energy bills are 200% higher. I can't believe any economist is saying that it will boost the economy. It just won't.

[SaintK]

Seems Truss is plowing ahead but cutting taxes rather than capping energy prices or windfall taxes on producers.

In many ways, I think you do have to have energy prices that encourage middle and top earners to reduce demand quite a bit as this crisis isn't ending for a few years. However, it's just unrealistic to assume people are going to rush to spend because VAT is 5% lower and their energy bills are 200% higher. I can't believe any economist is saying that it will boost the economy. It just won't.

She will u turn rather than have excess deaths on her hands this winter. Not a good optic when an election is only 2 years away.

[I like neeps]

Seems Truss is plowing ahead but cutting taxes rather than capping energy prices or windfall taxes on producers.

In many ways, I think you do have to have energy prices that encourage middle and top earners to reduce demand quite a bit as this crisis isn't ending for a few years. However, it's just unrealistic to assume people are going to rush to spend because VAT is 5% lower and their energy bills are 200% higher. I can't believe any economist is saying that it will boost the economy. It just won't.

She will u turn rather than have excess deaths on her hands this winter. Not a good optic when an election is only 2 years away.

Already is a huge spike in excess deaths as NHS emergency care has collapsed and long term care waiting lists are at record levels. A cold winter with expensive heating doesn't bare thinking about it.

[C T]

Emily Maitlis lecture in Edinburgh is quite interesting.

One point around balanced journalism she makes, given Brexit as an example. Back in 2016 they might have been able to for example find 60 economists against Brexit in 5 minutes, then spend 5 hours finding 1 in favor. Then ultimately pick one from the against and the one in favor and stick them on TV.

Also a load of stuff about cronyism and pandering to the government that the BBC have more recently become so desperate to do.

[tabascoboy]

[fishfoodie]

What a shock !

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829 ... eadership/

She's afraid of even the current neutered iteration of the Beeb.

I can't understand the gushing praise of Lizzy since the start of this campaign; she's never appeared to me, to be anything other than thick as pig shit. I know I'm biased, but I've never seen any evidence of this supposed intellect that lies behind the cosplay Thatcher exterior ?

She has all of the Bumblecunts worst attributes; laziness, vanity, corruption; & none of his elect-ability, or charisma

[I like neeps]

What a shock !

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829 ... eadership/

She's afraid of even the current neutered iteration of the Beeb.

I can't understand the gushing praise of Lizzy since the start of this campaign; she's never appeared to me, to be anything other than thick as pig shit. I know I'm biased, but I've never seen any evidence of this supposed intellect that lies behind the cosplay Thatcher exterior ?

She has all of the Bumblecunts worst attributes; laziness, vanity, corruption; & none of his elect-ability, or charisma

I don't think she's scared of the BBC. Just why bother? Johnson never bothered and avoided all interviews and look how he did. With Classic Dom basically running Kuenssburg's twitter account and the right wing press all on side they ran the media without any interviews.

Truss will aim for the same.

[Lobby]

What a shock !

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829 ... eadership/

She's afraid of even the current neutered iteration of the Beeb.

I can't understand the gushing praise of Lizzy since the start of this campaign; she's never appeared to me, to be anything other than thick as pig shit. I know I'm biased, but I've never seen any evidence of this supposed intellect that lies behind the cosplay Thatcher exterior ?

She has all of the Bumblecunts worst attributes; laziness, vanity, corruption; & none of his elect-ability, or charisma

I don't think she's scared of the BBC. Just why bother? Johnson never bothered and avoided all interviews and look how he did. With Classic Dom basically running Kuenssburg's twitter account and the right wing press all on side they ran the media without any interviews.

Truss will aim for the same.

There's also nothing to be gained for her from being interviewed on the BBC at this time. She only has to appeal to a vanishingly small number of Tory members in this election, almost all of whom will loathe the BBC and probably consider Nick Robinson to be a dangerous communist (despite him having been president of the Oxford University Conservative Association when he was a student). Hardly any of them would have listened to the interview, and those that did would have spent the whole time shouting at the radio, and tearing up their licence fee direct debit forms.

In fact, as most of them will have submitted their votes for her weeks ago, it does beg the question why the Tories have been dragging this election out for so long. Given the tiny electorate, they should have been able to complete the whole process in about 3 weeks.

[Tichtheid]

There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

[Paddington Bear]

Following on from Ticht's point - more generally the government within the last 18 months spent billions saving businesses going under, what an absolute waste of money if they all go under because of energy bills this winter.

I know a guy who runs a small shop who's energy bill has just gone from £30 a month to £350, likely will put him out of business and he's already applying for other jobs.

[Paddington Bear]

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

[dpedin]

There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

I share Tichtheid's pessimism. We are on the edge of a precipice and whilst we are all standing on the edge and shitting ourselves looking down into the spiralling abyss Truss and her ERG mates are looking up to their rich paymasters, licking their arses and waiting for orders. It is now all but certain that we will slide into a dangerous and damaging recession and by mid winter there will be a huge uprising of public unrest and trouble on the streets. It is going to get nasty.

Post Brexit we are now the dirty, shit covered, drunk and broken old man of Europe, bitter about broken marriages and good jobs we once had but lost whilst pissing ourselves in the gutter and cursing and swearing at anyone trying to offer us help. We are complete basket cases. This is going to take some serious sorting by some serious and grown up politicians and leaders ... this current Tory Gov bunch of cunts are not the answer and their zealotism will just speed up our decline. It is going to get nasty.

[I like neeps]

There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

If 70% of pubs and a huge percentage of hospitality went it wouldn't be a recession it would be a depression.

PB is correct that doesn't make sense to let all the loans go bad. Banks will be putting the pressure on behind the scenes.

One thing is that Truss will put massive bailout packages on the table but also this is a long term problem and Macron is correct that the age of abundance is over.

[SaintK]

Following on from Ticht's point - more generally the government within the last 18 months

spent billions saving businesses going under, what an absolute waste of money

if they all go under because of energy bills this winter.

I know a guy who runs a small shop who's energy bill has just gone from £30 a month to £350, likely will put him out of business and he's already applying for other jobs.

£9 billion of which has fraudulently disappeared due to the lack of due diligence and follow up by the treasury

[petej]

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

The real problem with tidal is no private business will do it even though a lot the issues (environmental) surrounding say a system on the Severn Estuary have been resolved. The payback time will be longer than nuclear plants

[Paddington Bear]

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

The real problem with tidal is no private business will do it even though a lot the issues (environmental) surrounding say a system on the Severn Estuary have been resolved. The payback time will be longer than nuclear plants

Yes it would require a government led industrial strategy to succeed.

[tabascoboy]

There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

She's going to stand up to Putin and be more assertive with Biden - but chickens out of a TV interview...can't wait for her to find excuses to avoid PMQs

[C69]

Well the care home sector looks fecked as well.
What an utter shit storm.

[yermum]

Can't get my daughters medication.

Feels like I am living in a failing country ATM.

[I like neeps]

Can't get my daughters medication.

Feels like I am living in a failing country ATM.

And the worst is yet to come.

What I wonder if how are politicians insulated from this as to not be screaming at the Tories to do something about it.

[Insane_Homer]

It's OK folks, it's not the Tories fault...

[petej]

It's OK folks, it's not the Tories fault...

The end result of the terrible circle jerk between the right wing press and our government. They are just lashing out due to their own inadequacies and are going to block anyone else from helping with solutions out of spite. We lack serious politicians and real journalists.

[Hal Jordan]

It's OK folks, it's not the Tories fault...

The end result of the terrible circle jerk between the right wing press and our government. They are just lashing out due to their own inadequacies and are going to block anyone else from helping with solutions out of spite. We lack serious politicians and real journalists.

I guarantee that the ERG backers will seize upon thus as a chance to drill, baby, drill as Truss has promised after a meeting Kwarteng has had with the oil and industry lads.

Fucknuckles, the lot of them. And soon they will be deciding our fate.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

I'm going to add tidal power to the list of non starters. Given that the UK has one of the biggest tidal ranges in the world, has been looking at tidal for around 100 years and no project has ever got going suggests it never will. It's not a technology problem, it's an economics problem. Cost is high, energy density is low and it has an intermittency problem.