The Rugby Championship

[Guy Smiley]

I’ve just seen footage of Swain targeting Tupaea’s knee…

He’s got to face a suspension for that, surely. Holy shit… we seen some dirty play in the game sometimes and that is right up there with the worst of it.

[Jethro]

I'd need to watch it again but in real time I think that was just awful refereeing. Awful. Might have saved Fosters job too.

I think he was within his rights, but on the other hand he wouldn't have penalised that at any other point in the game, so it's a bit bollocks.

Aussie still should have kept them out, though

It is the inconsistency. If you're not calling it in the 1st 77min then you shouldn't in the last 3. It didn't seem especially egregious IMO.

The Ref called on Foley at least three times to get a move on, his own team were urging him to take the kick, time was actually stopped and he still didn't take the kick. Fair decision, but continue all the same.

[OomStruisbaai]

Date: Saturday, September 17
Venue: Estadio Libertadores de América / Ricardo Bochini, Buenos Aires
Kick-off: 16:10 local (20:10 BST, 19:10 GMT)
Referee: James Doleman (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Damon Murphy (Australia), Craig Evans (Wales)
TMO: Chris Hart (New Zealand)

Los Pumas

15 Juan Cruz Mallia, 14 Emiliano Boffelli, 13 Jeronimo de la Fuente, 12 Matias Orlando, 11 Lucio Cinti, 10 Santiago Carreras, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Pablo Matera, 7 Marcos Kremer, 6 Juan Martin Gonzalez, 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Matias Alemanno, 3 Eduardo Bello, 2 Julian Montoya (c), 1 Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro

Replacements: 16 Augustin Creevy, 17 Thomas Gallo, 18 Joel Sclavi, 19 Guido Petti, 20 Rodrigo Bruni, 21 Tomas Cubeli, 22 Benjamin Urdapilleta, 23 Matias Moroni

Springbokke

15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 77 caps, 65 pts (13t)
14 – Canan Moodie (Vodacom Bulls) – 1 cap, 5 pts (1t)
13 – Jesse Kriel (Yokohama Canon Eagles) – 54 caps, 60 pts (12t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 64 caps, 40 pts (8t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 31 caps, 110 pts (22t)
10 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 22 caps, 14 pts (1t, 3c, 1p)
9 – Jaden Hendrikse (Cell C Sharks) – 8 caps, 5 pts (1t)

8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 16 caps, 0 pts
7 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 57 caps, 10 pts (2t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 69 caps, 35 pts (7t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Wild Knights) – 62 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 104 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 52 caps, 5 pts (1t)
2 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 53 caps, 55 pts (11t)
1 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 65 caps, 5 pts (1t)

Replacements:

16 – Deon Fourie (DHL Stormers) – 2 caps, 0pts
17 – Ox Nche (Cell C Sharks) – 13 caps, 0pts
18 – Trevor Nyakane (Racing 92) – 58 caps, 5pts (1t)
19 – Elrigh Louw (Vodacom Bulls) – 2 caps, 0 pts
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 25 caps, 15 pts (3t)
21 – Faf de Klerk (Yokohama Canon Eagles) – 40 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Andre Esterhuizen (Harlequins) – 9 caps, 0pts
23 – Frans Steyn (Toyota Cheetahs) – 76 caps, 150 pts (11t, 7c, 24p, 3d)


Springbokke by 21

[convoluted]

Good bloody grief.
Having had a rather physical day of retirement only to then be drained by the stop-start first 40, I went to bed at halftime. Only just now have I seen the second half replay on Sky without knowing what happened.

Wowee, what a ripper it turned into.
Without seeing any forum or media comments, my take on the end is that in the immediate replay of the deliberate prolonged delay you could see a couple of Wallabies in the background screaming out what I guess was "Just kick it you effing idiot" right before the ref took action.
That's it. Case closed. Wallaby self-acknowledgement that it was self-inflicted.

Now to catch up on the forum and media kerfuffle I've not seen.

[convoluted]

Amidst all the wailing, here is Charles Richardson of The Telegraph UK

..."The question now, of course, is what next? Raynal has laid down the gauntlet to referees everywhere and, who knows, fly-halves might now think twice about unnecessarily running down the clock. Perhaps Raynal has just inadvertently saved rugby as a spectator sport? What a thought.

"The onus is now on international referees to follow Raynal's lead and bravely follow the Frenchman's intrepidness and be consistent. And not just with penalties; but with scrums, line-outs, water breaks, and shots at goal."

Amen cubed.
We only beat the Boks at Ellis Park because they were out on their feet in the last 10 mins because that referee refused to allow the Boks their usual dawdle to lineouts and scrums.

[Certain Navigator]

Absolutely fuckin robbed. You pedantic french prick. Oh well when we get our 15 injured boys back we will see.....

There is a kind of sweet karma about this - when a player goes into a static collision targeting a vulnerable area - possibly intentionally. And when the result of that could have very well been a career ending injury on an opposing player - then yeah......while mystified at the ruling - I have a smug sense of satisfaction with it.

This. Unfortunately.

[Gumboot]

Haven't watched the replay yet, but a couple of things really stood out to me during the game:

Caleb Clarke is a fucking dumb player and he's going to be a massive liability for us in a crucial RWC game if he's still around then. He almost cost us the game with his clueless defensive positioning. And when he makes a line break he often (not always, but not fucking far off always) finds a way to stuff things up - running away from his support or falling over himself...

Meanwhile, on the right wing, Jordan needs a kick up the arse for all his ropey tackling. But unlike Clarke, I think he has the ability to improve his defence a lot.

French referees should be banned from officiating test matches.

Darcy Swain's a grubby cunt and I hope he cops a lengthy ban.

[Kiwias]

Haven't watched the replay yet, but a couple of things really stood out to me during the game:

Caleb Clarke is a fucking dumb player and he's going to be a massive liability for us in a crucial RWC game if he's still around then. He almost cost us the game with his clueless defensive positioning. And when he makes a line break he often (not always, but not fucking far off always) finds a way to stuff things up - running away from his support or falling over himself...

Meanwhile, on the right wing, Jordan needs a kick up the arse for all his ropey tackling. But unlike Clarke, I think he has the ability to improve his defence a lot.

French referees should be banned from officiating test matches.

Darcy Swain's a grubby cunt and I hope he cops a lengthy ban.

Clarke lacks any awareness of what is happening around him when he has the ball in hand so makes it nigh on impossible for the support runners to be in the right position. He made several good line breaks but then wasted them.

I am quite ok with the final scrum call for time wasting -- Foley chose to ignore the ref's instructions despite them being clear enough for other members of the Aus backline to hear. I just hope that refs overall become harsher on time wasting.

Swain is a total cunt.

[Ymx]

Delightful reading the outrage across the ditch


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 5biit.html

In Australia, the debate will be whether the decision was an all-time shocker, or it was simply an absurd howler. Some may even argue it was rotten enough to be a square-up, once-and-for-all, for that old Kiwi go-to, Trevor Chappell’s underarm.

And if you have the time to read all of rugby’s laws, they may even be right. Technically.

But that would be missing the point entirely. The staggering decision of Raynal to impose himself in such a significant manner, at such a significant moment, summed up perfectly the rapidly expanding problem of rugby refereeing in the last few years.

It should not be just be a question of “can I blow my whistle?” but “should I blow it?”

[Gumboot]

Clarke lacks any awareness of what is happening around him when he has the ball in hand so makes it nigh on impossible for the support runners to be in the right position. He made several good line breaks but then wasted them.

I am quite ok with the final scrum call for time wasting -- Foley chose to ignore the ref's instructions despite them being clear enough for other members of the Aus backline to hear. I just hope that refs overall become harsher on time wasting.

Swain is a total cunt.

Clarke has no spatial awareness on defence either. I wonder if his terrible positioning and decision making is why he didn't make it into the Olympics 7s squad. They put a premium on keeping the ball alive in 7s, and Clarke has a knack for doing just the opposite.

I'm also very happy with any crackdown on time wasting. Was really just taking the piss about how French refs often seem to find ways of contriving last-minute game-changing situations. No idea if it's intentional, but for whatever reason they're very good at it.

[Kiwias]

I loved the shot just after the haka of the ABs players all in.a tight circle and Richie being the most vocal of the players. He is growing into his role as the man running the team out on the field.

[Gumboot]

Fox, Mehrtens, Spencer...if there's one position on the field we tend to forgive a bit of defensive frailty, it's first five.

[OomStruisbaai]

Why haven't they appoint SA refs for TRC?

[Ymx]

[Ymx]

78.25: Penalty.
78.50: Raynal – “Play on please”.
78.55: Raynal – “Quick play”.
78.56: Raynal blows time off. “Time off.
7 seconds elapses. “You play now. Time on.”
Three seconds.
78.59: Raynal “Ten?” – Foley looks back, begins kick.
79.04: Blows freekick

[Chilli]

Great win by the All Blacks.

If only the Australian supporters were as gracious in defeat as they are in winning.

Grace and and a South African. Last time I saw that was my Grandfathers old mate. Craven. They were old mates played against each other in 37. Looked up each other in London during the War. Kept up to their death. He wasn't to keen on the new Springbok either if you know the Doctor.......

Eh?

[Deepsouth]

Great win by the All Blacks.

If only the Australian supporters were as gracious in defeat as they are in winning.

Grace and and a South African. Last time I saw that was my Grandfathers old mate. Craven. They were old mates played against each other in 37. Looked up each other in London during the War. Kept up to their death. He wasn't to keen on the new Springbok either if you know the Doctor.......

Eh?

Don't worry mate I'm sure it will click one day....

[Monk]

Grace and and a South African. Last time I saw that was my Grandfathers old mate. Craven. They were old mates played against each other in 37. Looked up each other in London during the War. Kept up to their death. He wasn't to keen on the new Springbok either if you know the Doctor.......

Eh?

Don't worry mate I'm sure it will click one day....

Well some of us may have known Craven and not understand the extent of your innuendo

[Chilli]

Why haven't they appoint SA refs for TRC?

They are too honest

[Chilli]

Grace and and a South African. Last time I saw that was my Grandfathers old mate. Craven. They were old mates played against each other in 37. Looked up each other in London during the War. Kept up to their death. He wasn't to keen on the new Springbok either if you know the Doctor.......

Eh?

Don't worry mate I'm sure it will click one day....

Oh it clicked.

I just wanted to get your explanation.

[Chilli]

Eh?

Don't worry mate I'm sure it will click one day....

Well some of us may have known Craven and not understand the extent of your innuendo

He is trying to be edgey.

[Big D]

That is an example of why I don't want a 20min red card. It was a disgusting attempt to injure a player and blatantly deliberate. I don't care if it hurts his team if they are permanently down to 14. It would be that pricks fault.

[robmatic]

That is an example of why I don't want a 20min red card. It was a disgusting attempt to injure a player and blatantly deliberate. I don't care if it hurts his team if they are permanently down to 14. It would be that pricks fault.

I've now seen the clip and it's the dirtiest bit of play I've seen for a while.

I see your point about devaluing red cards but this was only worth a yellow

[OomStruisbaai]

Why haven't they appoint SA refs for TRC?

They are too honest

Australia probably don't want our refs after the Berry video..

[OomStruisbaai]

That is an example of why I don't want a 20min red card. It was a disgusting attempt to injure a player and blatantly deliberate. I don't care if it hurts his team if they are permanently down to 14. It would be that pricks fault.

I've now seen the clip and it's the dirtiest bit of play I've seen for a while.

I see your point about devaluing red cards but this was only worth a yellow

Clip please?

[OomStruisbaai]

[robmatic]

He knows exactly what he's doing.

[Ymx]

Yeah, I didn’t notice it at all in the run of play.

But he really does aim for him. It’s the way he positions his arm and shoulder for the knee suggests it being very aimed at. And then the gripped follow through.

[Ymx]

That is an example of why I don't want a 20min red card. It was a disgusting attempt to injure a player and blatantly deliberate. I don't care if it hurts his team if they are permanently down to 14. It would be that pricks fault.

There is something to be said about deliberate maiming of someone.

But I still prefer him being sent off for the match, no issues with another replacing him after 20.

He still gets sent off the field in disgrace for the rest of the match.

A double yellow card of punishment to the team.

He still gets cited, and will face his real punishment through a thorough examination. Let’s hope it’s longer than QT’s knee to recover.

It’s identical treatment for the player himself under both systems.

I don’t hold malice against the whole Aus team for his actions, and demand they lose.

[SaintK]

He knows exactly what he's doing.

That's Callum Clarke levels of filth
Hope he gets a ban measured in months like Clarke did

[OomStruisbaai]

That is an example of why I don't want a 20min red card. It was a disgusting attempt to injure a player and blatantly deliberate. I don't care if it hurts his team if they are permanently down to 14. It would be that pricks fault.

There is something to be said about deliberate maiming of someone.

But I still prefer him being sent off for the match, no issues with another replacing him after 20.

He still gets sent off the field in disgrace for the rest of the match.

A double yellow card of punishment to the team.

He still gets cited, and will face his real punishment through a thorough examination. Let’s hope it’s longer than QT’s knee to recover.

It’s identical treatment for the player himself under both systems.

I don’t hold malice against the whole Aus team for his actions, and demand they lose.

This and White's antics is very bad for rugby.

[dabooldawg]

That penalty reversal was fucking diabolical. 40s to take a kick before the baguette blows the whistle. Didn't watch the game but I can only assume the ref hurried all other prior kicking penalties along in similar fashion?

If he did then fair enough for being consistent. If not, then it's dodgy as all hell.

Bit yeah were rugby folk and supposed to suck it up and not criticise etc. Gentleman's game, pipe smoking, hip hip hurrah, better than soccer, etc.

[Ymx]

I’m just putting this here again.


78.25: Penalty.
78.50: Raynal – “Play on please”.
78.55: Raynal – “Quick play”.
78.56: Raynal blows time off. “Time off.
7 seconds elapses. “You play now. Time on.”
Three seconds.
78.59: Raynal “Ten?” – Foley looks back, begins kick.
79.04: Blows freekick



And it wasn’t just the ref imploring him to take the kick, there was also his team mates shouting at him.

[Guy Smiley]

blah blah blah blah Didn't watch the game but blah blah blah b;ah

[Ymx]

blah blah blah blah Didn't watch the game but blah blah blah b;ah

Well put.

[Lobby]

There was a similar incident in an England Australia match at Twickenham in the late 90s. England had a narrow lead in the last few minutes and had been awarded a line out in the Australia half. England were slow to line up and take the throw in for the very good reason that their hooker was at that moment being treated by the medical staff on the other side of the field and there was no one there to throw the ball in. The Ref, however, decided that this wasn't a good enough reason to delay the throw in and awarded a free kick to Australia for English 'time-wasting'.

Strangely enough, the Aussie team and commentators all seemed quite happy with the award of a free kick for time-wasting on that occasion. Fortunately, there was a happy ending as Australia still lost the match.

Having also now seen the Darcy Swain incident, what a piece of shit he is, and what a horrible team to have both him and Oscar winner Nic White in the same team,

[Gumboot]

blah blah blah blah Didn't watch the game but blah blah blah b;ah

Well put.

What a bizarre little rant.

[Guy Smiley]

This is quite interesting….





I didn’t watch the game either. The reviews I’ve read suggest the ref warned of time wasting several times during the game. It looks like a pretty ballsy fair call.

[Masterji]

I didn't even know the game was on. Since when have they played the Bledesloe games on a Thursday

[Tichtheid]

My only problem with Rayanal's decision is that it wouldn't have been given as a scrum at any other point in the match, but then there is not the same consequence for ten seconds here or there at any other time in the match.

I think the important point is that Rayanal didn't give New Zealand a try, he awarded a scrum, Australia should have defended that scrum, made their tackles and run time out for the win.

No one was robbed or hard done by, it was a fuck up by Australia to give away the scrum for time wasting and another for not defending the scrum.