The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

I just hope they don’t repeat the mistake and appoint Mike Blair way too soon

Sadly, I think that’s very possible. An experienced international coach is probably too much to ask for, but I’d at least like to see one from outside the SRU system.

I think it’s now an attractive job. A good squad of talented players who seem to underperforming as a unit, in the biggest international tournament, without expectations of multiple championships and grand slams but with a clear space to progress? For good coaches moving from club to international like Cotter was, I reckon it’s tempting.

[Big D]

I just hope they don’t repeat the mistake and appoint Mike Blair way too soon

Sadly, I think that’s very possible. An experienced international coach is probably too much to ask for, but I’d at least like to see one from outside the SRU system.

I think it’s now an attractive job. A good squad of talented players who seem to underperforming as a unit, in the biggest international tournament, without expectations of multiple championships and grand slams but with a clear space to progress? For good coaches moving from club to international like Cotter was, I reckon it’s tempting.

I think so. I also think many of us are being unrealistic with what we want to see. I think VC and GT have probably just about maxed out the win %age possible for us but we want to see a well organised team with clear game plans, preferably plans that are enjoyable to watch.

[Blackmac]

Sadly, I think that’s very possible. An experienced international coach is probably too much to ask for, but I’d at least like to see one from outside the SRU system.

I think it’s now an attractive job. A good squad of talented players who seem to underperforming as a unit, in the biggest international tournament, without expectations of multiple championships and grand slams but with a clear space to progress? For good coaches moving from club to international like Cotter was, I reckon it’s tempting.

I think so. I also think many of us aren't being unrealistic with what we want to see. I think VC and GT have probably just about maxed out the win %age possible for us but we want to see a well organised team with clear game plans, preferably plans that are enjoyable to watch.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect us to win regularly against the likes of Wales, Australia, Argentina and Japan and feel we can have a good lash against the likes of NZ, SA, Ireland and England, with decent prospects of home wins. At the moment that is not the case and I think the first 3 will expect to run in at least 40 against us.

[Achahoish]

I just hope they don’t repeat the mistake and appoint Mike Blair way too soon

Franco Smith & Mike Blair as his protégé

[Slick]

Aussies pushed the French very close - puts our performance with a home based team last week into context. If Kinghorn had kicked the penalty then I wonder if the mood music might be a bit different? The Aussies are no mugs and did well against the French who struggled at times and let the Aussies play some rugby. As folk have said on here previously we should have won reasonably comfortably last week but didnt manage the game well in the last 15 mins and penalties etc let us down. It will be interesting to see how Fiji do now they have a game under their belt and have more time together although I am not sure they will be anywhere good enough against Irelands very structured game and strong set piece.

Maybe you are on to something after all…

[dpedin]

Aussies pushed the French very close - puts our performance with a home based team last week into context. If Kinghorn had kicked the penalty then I wonder if the mood music might be a bit different? The Aussies are no mugs and did well against the French who struggled at times and let the Aussies play some rugby. As folk have said on here previously we should have won reasonably comfortably last week but didnt manage the game well in the last 15 mins and penalties etc let us down. It will be interesting to see how Fiji do now they have a game under their belt and have more time together although I am not sure they will be anywhere good enough against Irelands very structured game and strong set piece.

Maybe you are on to something after all…

Argies beat a poor England .... Bofelli is MotM!

Again we should have beaten Argentina away in the summer 2-1 but then again ill discipline and poor decision making let us down in final test when we were well in the lead. It will be interesting to see how we get on against them in a couple of weeks. It should provide a bit of perspective on where we are?

[Jock42]

[GrahamWa]

I'm sure that would have been a post match interview, which would be correct as Townsend has said he hasn't spoken to him.

[robmatic]

Any news on Hastings yet?

I'd be surprised if Russell is called up, Townsend doesn't want him in his squad. It's more than a bit unfair to be chucking on Ross Thompson against the All Blacks though.

[Tichtheid]

Any news on Hastings yet?

I'd be surprised if Russell is called up, Townsend doesn't want him in his squad. It's more than a bit unfair to be chucking on Ross Thompson against the All Blacks though.

If Hastings is not fit then the choices are Kinghorn, Thompson, Savala, Weir, van der Walt and....

Maybe James Lang will get the call, move Hoggy to 10 with Smith at fullback?

Just as long as we don't get the best fly half we've had in the pro era, or possibly the best in any era, it's only the All Blacks, it'll be like a warm up game.

[Big D]

The Finn (or Fin) thing is a side show to an extent. Finn (or Fin) won't fix discipline, static forwards, or unclear gameplans.

[I like neeps]

The Finn (or Fin) thing is a side show to an extent. Finn (or Fin) won't fix discipline, static forwards, or unclear gameplans.

I think the narrative now that Argentina beat England and Australia lost by a point to France is that we're actually very good.

[Slick]

The Finn (or Fin) thing is a side show to an extent. Finn (or Fin) won't fix discipline, static forwards, or unclear gameplans.

I think the narrative now that Argentina beat England and Australia lost by a point to France is that we're actually very good.

Yeah, feels good after the disappointment of Saturday

[Tichtheid]

The Finn (or Fin) thing is a side show to an extent. Finn (or Fin) won't fix discipline, static forwards, or unclear gameplans.

I think the narrative now that Argentina beat England and Australia lost by a point to France is that we're actually very good.

Hrmm, I think it's more that given the results elsewhere and our results against the same teams, perhaps, just perhaps, we are not the total and utter shite that some Scotland fans seem to revel in, that the results may show that many teams below the top four are closer to each other than we might think.

We lost to Australia by a point, a team not that long ago were always referred to as one of "the Big Three", perhaps we feel entitled to beat Australia now, personally I don't feel that way.
Some say Aus were ranked below us, therefore we should be beating them at home. They were ranked below us because they had just come off a series of games against New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina. Oz lost two to NZ and were one-apiece with South Africa and Argentina. We were 1-2 away from home against Argentina and lost to Australia at home by a point.
Argentina have just beaten England, we beat England.

We're currently 9th in the rankings, and that seems about correct to me, in terms of our results anyway.

I'm frustrated by the penalties as much as anyone, but here are the number of penalties conceded from the weekend's games

Italy 9
Sam 8

Sco 11
Fiji 18

Ire 10
SA 11

Wal 10
NZ 10

Fra 10
Aus 11

Eng 10
Arg 10

[Yr Alban]

I think it’s now an attractive job. A good squad of talented players who seem to underperforming as a unit, in the biggest international tournament, without expectations of multiple championships and grand slams but with a clear space to progress? For good coaches moving from club to international like Cotter was, I reckon it’s tempting.

I think so. I also think many of us aren't being unrealistic with what we want to see. I think VC and GT have probably just about maxed out the win %age possible for us but we want to see a well organised team with clear game plans, preferably plans that are enjoyable to watch.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect us to win regularly against the likes of Wales, Australia, Argentina and Japan and feel we can have a good lash against the likes of NZ, SA, Ireland and England, with decent prospects of home wins. At the moment that is not the case and I think the first 3 will expect to run in at least 40 against us.

This. I don’t think it’s at all unrealistic, in the short term, to expect that we could perform as well as Wales were a couple of years ago. Aside from an iconic captain, they didn’t have players obviously better than the ones we have available to us now. But they were well coached, disciplined, had a clear game plan, and a load of self-belief and willingness to put their bodies on the line for the team.We have none of these things at the moment. The first three are fixable with the right coach. The fourth is self-generating with success. As for the fifth, well, some of it is innate, but some can be inspired by good coaching.

Much as I dislike the man, we need a Gatland. He took a squad not significantly better than ours, and made them a force to be reckoned with.

[Slick]

Any news on Hastings yet?

I'd be surprised if Russell is called up, Townsend doesn't want him in his squad. It's more than a bit unfair to be chucking on Ross Thompson against the All Blacks though.

If Hastings is not fit then the choices are Kinghorn, Thompson, Savala, Weir, van der Walt and....

Maybe James Lang will get the call, move Hoggy to 10 with Smith at fullback?

Just as long as we don't get the best fly half we've had in the pro era, or possibly the best in any era, it's only the All Blacks, it'll be like a warm up game.

Who's kicking? We can't go into a game against NZ without a kicker, although it looks like we may have to....

I'd forgotten about VDM to be honest... in all seriousness he might be our best option.

If he refuses to pick Fin and Hastings is injured, I'd be happy to go with Kinghorn if all of Scottish rugby could agree we won't get on his back if it doesn't go to plan and his kicking isn't great. But it won't happen and he'll get strung up. And to be honest, it's international rugby.

Not having a go at your post in any way, I'm really perplexed by all this.

[Tichtheid]

I haven't rewatched our game from Saturday yet, but one thing I felt at the time was that we looked like we were physically intimidated by Fiji in a way that I'd never seen before, I've seen us lose the physicality battle many times, especially against Ireland and South Africa, but for a while, in the middle section of the match it looked like we just didn't fancy it, such was the ferocity Fiji brought to the match, the injury to Hastings was right in the middle of that, it was brutal, legal but brutal.
Jamie Ritchie managed to avoid an Exocet tackle from Bill Mata with quick feet, or he would have been in the Doc's with Hastings this morning.

None of the other matches looked to me to have that same level of physicality that Fiji brought. They were not just big and brutal, you don't see many players turn and catch Darcy Graham, but he was on Saturday.
Fiji have some outstanding athletes in their side

Did you see the replacement tighthead with the ball in one hand, spinng around and away from would-be tacklers before choosing which offload to give?

Fuxakes

[I like neeps]

[quote=Tichtheid post_id=242594 time=1667814901 user_id=632]
[quote="I like neeps" post_id=242589 time=1667812520 user_id=208]
[quote="Big D" post_id=242586 time=1667811666 user_id=371]
The Finn (or Fin) thing is a side show to an extent. Finn (or Fin) won't fix discipline, static forwards, or unclear gameplans.
[/quote]

I think the narrative now that Argentina beat England and Australia lost by a point to France is that we're actually very good.
[/quote]

Hrmm, I think it's more that given the results elsewhere and our results against the same teams, perhaps, just perhaps, we are not the total and utter shite that some Scotland fans seem to revel in, that the results [u]may[/u] show that many teams below the top four are closer to each other than we might think.

We lost to Australia by a point, a team not that long ago were always referred to as one of "the Big Three", perhaps we feel entitled to beat Australia now, personally I don't feel that way.
Some say Aus were ranked below us, therefore we should be beating them at home. They were ranked below us because they had just come off a series of games against New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina. Oz lost two to NZ and were one-apiece with South Africa and Argentina. We were 1-2 away from home against Argentina and lost to Australia at home by a point.
Argentina have just beaten England, we beat England.

We're currently 9th in the rankings, and that seems about correct to me, in terms of our results anyway.

I'm frustrated by the penalties as much as anyone, but here are the number of penalties conceded from the weekend's games

Italy 9
Sam 8

Sco 11
Fiji 18

Ire 10
SA 11

Wal 10
NZ 10

Fra 10
Aus 11

Eng 10
Arg 10
[/quote]

What are the penalty stats for the year? One match against maybe the worst or definitely second worst team we'll play all year is cherry picking a bit when the post was about the past year.

Australia aren't in the top 3 teams and haven't been for some time. They are about Scotland levels and the last few matches between the sides have all been close affairs. Last year we won without playing very well, it was a concern at the time and look at how the year went. But the well Australia lost narrowly to France means what? We'll give France a game? Australia beat SA this year - Scotland close to world champion standard?

Process is more important than results. Process = performance - is anyone happy with our performances? Does anyone think they're as good as could be?

I don't mind losing, I'm bothered by a good group of players - the best in a good while - not playing to their abilities showing the same mistakes whether sloppy or poor discipline, the same mentality of losing games by missing a kick at goal or for the corner or just poor discipline at the key time, the same lack of structure in attack. It's frustrating performance wise, I don't mind results. So I don't buy the well let's look at other teams results in matches we aren't playing as a yardstick to how we're playing. It's irrelevant.

[TartanBear]

Lots of things Scotland should do better, but I challenge those who assert that the players “don’t put their bodies on the line”. To take one example, how could anyone question Darcy’s commitment to the cause? One of the smallest players on the pitch, but he doesn’t ever shirk a high ball, a tackle or any other kind of contact. Chris Harris? Matt Fagerson?

[Slick]

I haven't rewatched our game from Saturday yet, but one thing I felt at the time was that we looked like we were physically intimidated by Fiji in a way that I'd never seen before, I've seen us lose the physicality battle many times, especially against Ireland and South Africa, but for a while, in the middle section of the match it looked like we just didn't fancy it, such was the ferocity Fiji brought to the match, the injury to Hastings was right in the middle of that, it was brutal, legal but brutal.
Jamie Ritchie managed to avoid an Exocet tackle from Bill Mata with quick feet, or he would have been in the Doc's with Hastings this morning.

None of the other matches looked to me to have that same level of physicality that Fiji brought. They were not just big and brutal, you don't see many players turn and catch Darcy Graham, but he was on Saturday.
Fiji have some outstanding athletes in their side

Did you see the replacement tighthead with the ball in one hand, spinng around and away from would-be tacklers before choosing which offload to give?

Fuxakes

I did notice that - I actually mentioned in the match thread that at one point Duhan looked like he had had enough.

However, it seemed to me it was a bit of a pattern through all the matches that at some point one or other of the teams seemed to up their intensity in defence and be looking for the big hits. No idea if it is now a thing that teams call this for certain periods or just a coincidence.

[dpedin]

I think the narrative now that Argentina beat England and Australia lost by a point to France is that we're actually very good.

Hrmm, I think it's more that given the results elsewhere and our results against the same teams, perhaps, just perhaps, we are not the total and utter shite that some Scotland fans seem to revel in, that the results may show that many teams below the top four are closer to each other than we might think.

We lost to Australia by a point, a team not that long ago were always referred to as one of "the Big Three", perhaps we feel entitled to beat Australia now, personally I don't feel that way.
Some say Aus were ranked below us, therefore we should be beating them at home. They were ranked below us because they had just come off a series of games against New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina. Oz lost two to NZ and were one-apiece with South Africa and Argentina. We were 1-2 away from home against Argentina and lost to Australia at home by a point.
Argentina have just beaten England, we beat England.

We're currently 9th in the rankings, and that seems about correct to me, in terms of our results anyway.

I'm frustrated by the penalties as much as anyone, but here are the number of penalties conceded from the weekend's games

Italy 9
Sam 8

Sco 11
Fiji 18

Ire 10
SA 11

Wal 10
NZ 10

Fra 10
Aus 11

Eng 10
Arg 10

What are the penalty stats for the year? One match against maybe the worst or definitely second worst team we'll play all year is cherry picking a bit when the post was about the past year.

Australia aren't in the top 3 teams and haven't been for some time. They are about Scotland levels and the last few matches between the sides have all been close affairs. Last year we won without playing very well, it was a concern at the time and look at how the year went. But the well Australia lost narrowly to France means what? We'll give France a game? Australia beat SA this year - Scotland close to world champion standard?

Process is more important than results. Process = performance - is anyone happy with our performances? Does anyone think they're as good as could be?

I don't mind losing, I'm bothered by a good group of players - the best in a good while - not playing to their abilities showing the same mistakes whether sloppy or poor discipline, the same mentality of losing games by missing a kick at goal or for the corner or just poor discipline at the key time, the same lack of structure in attack. It's frustrating performance wise, I don't mind results. So I don't buy the well let's look at other teams results in matches we aren't playing as a yardstick to how we're playing. It's irrelevant.

I don't think anyone, me included, is saying we are 'very good' just because of the Argies and Aussies results! However what I am saying is that it provides a wider context within which to measure our results and perhaps temper the 'we are shite' narrative kicking around. Yes I would like to see better performances, more attractive rugby and fewer penalties conceded etc ... we all would but for one easy kick missed in last minute of the Aussie game we would be sitting on 2 wins. Perspective?

[Tichtheid]

What are the penalty stats for the year? One match against maybe the worst or definitely second worst team we'll play all year is cherry picking a bit when the post was about the past year.

The breakdown for the 6N is here https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/statistics/

The spread for penalties conceded is from Italy at 9.2 average per game to Scotland at 12.2. overall Scotland gave away one or two more per game than the other sides, but you have to factor in where the penalties occur, a breakdown interpretation is very different, imo, to offside, the offsides are often very tight, but they are the stupid ones.

Australia aren't in the top 3 teams and haven't been for some time. They are about Scotland levels and the last few matches between the sides have all been close affairs.

That's kind of my point, that we are close, we lost by a point and to be fair I thought we were better than them, that doesn't make us shite.

Australia play Ireland later, but they haven't done so for a wee while, Ireland won 2-1 on their last tour in 2018.
Aus beat France 2-1 on France's summer tour last year and they've just lost by a point in Paris.
As I said, Oz lost to NZ twice, beat SA once and beat Arg once in the last few months

Last year we won without playing very well, it was a concern at the time and look at how the year went. But the well Australia lost narrowly to France means what? We'll give France a game? Australia beat SA this year - Scotland close to world champion standard?

No, I have no thoughts that we are close to world champion standards, we do not have the players to be anywhere near that level.
We don't have one forward that is close to a World XV, not even a second World XV, so I can't get too upset about losing to Austalia.

Finn and Hoggy are the closest we get to World XV players at the moment and that is because right now I can't think of outstanding candidates in those positions - this was easier to choose when New Zealand were so dominant.

Process is more important than results. Process = performance - is anyone happy with our performances? Does anyone think they're as good as could be?

I don't mind losing, I'm bothered by a good group of players - the best in a good while - not playing to their abilities showing the same mistakes whether sloppy or poor discipline, the same mentality of losing games by missing a kick at goal or for the corner or just poor discipline at the key time, the same lack of structure in attack. It's frustrating performance wise, I don't mind results. So I don't buy the well let's look at other teams results in matches we aren't playing as a yardstick to how we're playing. It's irrelevant.

It's relevant because how other teams perform against each other is how the world rankings are decided and that is how world cup seedings are decided, along with performances at the tournament, but of course that is influenced by what pool you are in which is decided by the rankings table.
Yes the pools are set for the next world cup, but my point stands, how other teams perform against each other is not irrelevant, and not even in internet discussions unless we want to ignore the bigger picture.

Our performances have been poor, that won't change until we can get phases of front-foot ball going, that won't happen until our lineout is sorted, including the maul, and the support for the ball-carrier is improved.
For me the problems lie in the pack.

[Yr Alban]

Lots of things Scotland should do better, but I challenge those who assert that the players “don’t put their bodies on the line”. To take one example, how could anyone question Darcy’s commitment to the cause? One of the smallest players on the pitch, but he doesn’t ever shirk a high ball, a tackle or any other kind of contact. Chris Harris? Matt Fagerson?

That’s not quite what I meant. I’m not saying that they shy away from contact in a manner we used to see from the likes of Dan Parks. But there is an intensity in these things. We know that we struggle against teams that use raw physicality as a weapon (SA and Ireland especially, but possibly Fiji at times on Saturday) and we are too easily bullied. It’s been mentioned many a time. I’m not claiming I have all the answers, but we need to find a way to match that or we’ll lose every game against these sides.

[Yr Alban]

Regarding numbers of penalties: I don’t think the issue is with the exact number conceded, but with the unnecessary nature of many of them, and the almost pigheaded refusal of our players to learn from the experience.

[I like neeps]

Hrmm, I think it's more that given the results elsewhere and our results against the same teams, perhaps, just perhaps, we are not the total and utter shite that some Scotland fans seem to revel in, that the results may show that many teams below the top four are closer to each other than we might think.

We lost to Australia by a point, a team not that long ago were always referred to as one of "the Big Three", perhaps we feel entitled to beat Australia now, personally I don't feel that way.
Some say Aus were ranked below us, therefore we should be beating them at home. They were ranked below us because they had just come off a series of games against New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina. Oz lost two to NZ and were one-apiece with South Africa and Argentina. We were 1-2 away from home against Argentina and lost to Australia at home by a point.
Argentina have just beaten England, we beat England.

We're currently 9th in the rankings, and that seems about correct to me, in terms of our results anyway.

I'm frustrated by the penalties as much as anyone, but here are the number of penalties conceded from the weekend's games

Italy 9
Sam 8

Sco 11
Fiji 18

Ire 10
SA 11

Wal 10
NZ 10

Fra 10
Aus 11

Eng 10
Arg 10

What are the penalty stats for the year? One match against maybe the worst or definitely second worst team we'll play all year is cherry picking a bit when the post was about the past year.

Australia aren't in the top 3 teams and haven't been for some time. They are about Scotland levels and the last few matches between the sides have all been close affairs. Last year we won without playing very well, it was a concern at the time and look at how the year went. But the well Australia lost narrowly to France means what? We'll give France a game? Australia beat SA this year - Scotland close to world champion standard?

Process is more important than results. Process = performance - is anyone happy with our performances? Does anyone think they're as good as could be?

I don't mind losing, I'm bothered by a good group of players - the best in a good while - not playing to their abilities showing the same mistakes whether sloppy or poor discipline, the same mentality of losing games by missing a kick at goal or for the corner or just poor discipline at the key time, the same lack of structure in attack. It's frustrating performance wise, I don't mind results. So I don't buy the well let's look at other teams results in matches we aren't playing as a yardstick to how we're playing. It's irrelevant.

I don't think anyone, me included, is saying we are 'very good' just because of the Argies and Aussies results! However what I am saying is that it provides a wider context within which to measure our results and perhaps temper the 'we are shite' narrative kicking around. Yes I would like to see better performances, more attractive rugby and fewer penalties conceded etc ... we all would but for one easy kick missed in last minute of the Aussie game we would be sitting on 2 wins. Perspective?

Woulda shoulda coulda, if your aunt had baws etc etc etc. Kinghorn missed the kick, Kinghorn really shouldn't have been the one to take the lock so no perspective needed as Kinghorn making the kick is a hypothetical situation which did not happen. Let's look at the real world, our coach decided to play an international game without a test (or even club) standard kicker and we lost with that being a contributing factor. That is a problem - whatever Aus did against France doesn't mitigate that.

We don't need to measure results against Argentina. It doesn't matter how Argentina play against England or how Australia play to France. It matters if we play well against Argentina and Australia and nobody is satisfied with the performances. And if we want to look at the France let's look at the six nations what happened? Oh yeah terrible lineouts, silly penalties, lost the match.

The we are playing badly narrative comes from playing badly. Not because we lost to Argentina, Australia, Wales, Ireland, and France this year. They're all good teams. But how about Scotland you know play well for 80 minutes - like we managed Vs England? That's a better way of showing we are a good team rather than well Argentina beat England who beat Australia who beat South Africa = we're a good team?

[KingBlairhorn]

Finn has been called back into the squad, Hastings out with injury.

[Jock42]

[Jock42]

At least now there might be something half decent every now and then in between all the penalties.

[Slick]

Finn has been called back into the squad, Hastings out with injury.

Wonder if he'll say yes...

[Yr Alban]

Finn has been called back into the squad, Hastings out with injury.

Wonder if he'll say yes...

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

[Slick]

Finn has been called back into the squad, Hastings out with injury.

Wonder if he'll say yes...

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

[charltom]

Wonder if he'll say yes...

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

It's the Autumn Internationals. He should. Nobody should be giving BK, who has been playing well, a hard time, and how great for such a bench option to exist and to get a big cheer (and give the team a lift) when coming on.

It might be sensible to pair Kinghorn with Horne and White/Price with Russell so that there is always a front line kicker on the pitch, but given that GT seemed to forget about Horne's kicking ability against Australia, I'm not so sure...

[robmatic]

Wonder if he'll say yes...

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

You're right, the crowd will already be a bit fractious due to this whole saga.

Assuming that Finn does start and BK is on the bench as 10 cover, that's not a bad situation to end up in. Kinghorn is a cracking player to bring on, even if he's not a complete 10 at international level.

[Slick]

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

You're right, the crowd will already be a bit fractious due to this whole saga.

Assuming that Finn does start and BK is on the bench as 10 cover, that's not a bad situation to end up in. Kinghorn is a cracking player to bring on, even if he's not a complete 10 at international level.

Completely agree - even moving Fin to 12 for the last 20 and give it a lash isn’t a terrible prospect at the moment

[Slick]

Given the circs, I strongly suspect that the SRU will have made damn sure he was coming before tweeting the announcement. Few players will turn down the chance to face the ABs, though.

So: sanity prevails. The issue now is that Toony will probably do his mule impression and start Kinghorn with Russell on the bench. Russell has to start this one.

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

It's the Autumn Internationals. He should. Nobody should be giving BK, who has been playing well, a hard time, and how great for such a bench option to exist and to get a big cheer (and give the team a lift) when coming on.

It might be sensible to pair Kinghorn with Horne and White/Price with Russell so that there is always a front line kicker on the pitch, but given that GT seemed to forget about Horne's kicking ability against Australia, I'm not so sure...

Horne has kicked brilliantly for Glasgow, but 3 weeks ago did we even know he could kick? Not sure I’m ready to class him as a front line kicker just yet!

[charltom]

I'm not sure he can. Imagine the uproar in the stadium if BK makes a loose pass or misses a kick, or the cheer Fin gets when he comes on in the 2nd half. He has to start him if nothing more than to protect BK from the awful position he has put him in.

It's the Autumn Internationals. He should. Nobody should be giving BK, who has been playing well, a hard time, and how great for such a bench option to exist and to get a big cheer (and give the team a lift) when coming on.

It might be sensible to pair Kinghorn with Horne and White/Price with Russell so that there is always a front line kicker on the pitch, but given that GT seemed to forget about Horne's kicking ability against Australia, I'm not so sure...

Horne has kicked brilliantly for Glasgow, but 3 weeks ago did we even know he could kick? Not sure I’m ready to class him as a front line kicker just yet!

Depends who "we" is. He used to play FH.

Conceivably GT thought it didn't really matter if we beat Australia and thought that continuing BK's development and showing confidence in him was more important.

The negative, BTW, of Finn coming into the squad is that it may mean that Fin said no.

[Tichtheid]

Having Kinghorn start from the bench gives us more options on the subs as he covers four positions.

I'd be tempted to, whisper it, stand Mish down for this one, Crosbie has been tearing it up and he could be what we need off the bench, with Ritchie, Fagerson and Dempsey starting.

[Slick]

It's the Autumn Internationals. He should. Nobody should be giving BK, who has been playing well, a hard time, and how great for such a bench option to exist and to get a big cheer (and give the team a lift) when coming on.

It might be sensible to pair Kinghorn with Horne and White/Price with Russell so that there is always a front line kicker on the pitch, but given that GT seemed to forget about Horne's kicking ability against Australia, I'm not so sure...

Horne has kicked brilliantly for Glasgow, but 3 weeks ago did we even know he could kick? Not sure I’m ready to class him as a front line kicker just yet!

Depends who "we" is. He used to play FH.

Conceivably GT thought it didn't really matter if we beat Australia and thought that continuing BK's development and showing confidence in him was more important.

The negative, BTW, of Finn coming into the squad is that it may mean that Fin said no.

Ahh, didn’t know that.

On the last bit - nah, no way Toony could have called up a rookie from England and left oor Finn out

[Jock42]

The negative, BTW, of Finn coming into the squad is that it may mean that Fin said no.

It's possible but I don't think he could justify leaving Russell out. His "form" reason was a bit tenuous with some other selections but it's not arguable after the way he's apparently being playing last 3 weeks.

[charltom]

The negative, BTW, of Finn coming into the squad is that it may mean that Fin said no.

It's possible but I don't think he could justify leaving Russell out. His "form" reason was a bit tenuous with some other selections but it's not arguable after the way he's apparently being playing last 3 weeks.

TBF to Townsend, he challenged Finn to show consistent form over a few weeks, and he has done that for a fortnight.