Saffers

[troglodyte]

Ek is verbaas jy is nie eerder op 4chan besig om te bespreek hoe Covid n hoax is nie

Kakkest attempt at a comeback. Ever.

Bra jy het jouself uitgemaak as n covid denier - dis fokken pateties.

Quote me on that and I promise to flounce on both sites permanently.

There's a difference between denying something and thinking it was handled pathetically.

[Big Nipper]

Rumours that alcohol and cigarette ban to be lifted on Friday, and going to level 2.


And I just bought a carton despite having had enough to have lasted me to Friday.

I’ll believe it when I see it; but I really hope you are correct.
We need to open up industries again and try to salvage what is left.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... s-20200812


I agree, the economic damages are now far worse than the pandemic.

Last year 10,000 people died from influenza. We just passed the 10k Covid-19 mark. And I don't think the measures taken really helped much to keep the C19 figures low.

And even if some lives are saved, a lot more have probably been lost due to suicides from people losing everything. In 2014, a relatively normal year, 1 suicide was recorded per hour on average in SA. A further 20 unsuccessful attempts per hour. That figure most definitely increased significantly during this pandemic due to people losing their jobs, businesses etc., and the lockdown itself played havoc with people's mental health, even those of us who managed to hang tough during this time. Even if that figure doubled which I think is a very conservative estimate, that would mean almost as many lives were lost from suicide than to the pandemic.

Add up all the $$$ lost during this time, foreign investments lost etc., and I come to the conclusion we should've had a 4-6 week lockdown at maximum. Thereafter stick to masks and sanitisers only.

This entire shitstain of a post shows your true colours. Have you even seen how many excess natural deaths there were for July and August? 40000. You are comparing Covid with the flu, which is denying that it is actually incredibly dangerous.

Go fuck yourself, you are part of the problem. Lockdown saved countless lives, just look at what is happening in the US where half the population think like you. 180 000 dead, and they are heading into winter again

[troglodyte]

I’ll believe it when I see it; but I really hope you are correct.
We need to open up industries again and try to salvage what is left.

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafri ... s-20200812


I agree, the economic damages are now far worse than the pandemic.

Last year 10,000 people died from influenza. We just passed the 10k Covid-19 mark. And I don't think the measures taken really helped much to keep the C19 figures low.

And even if some lives are saved, a lot more have probably been lost due to suicides from people losing everything. In 2014, a relatively normal year, 1 suicide was recorded per hour on average in SA. A further 20 unsuccessful attempts per hour. That figure most definitely increased significantly during this pandemic due to people losing their jobs, businesses etc., and the lockdown itself played havoc with people's mental health, even those of us who managed to hang tough during this time. Even if that figure doubled which I think is a very conservative estimate, that would mean almost as many lives were lost from suicide than to the pandemic.

Add up all the $$$ lost during this time, foreign investments lost etc., and I come to the conclusion we should've had a 4-6 week lockdown at maximum. Thereafter stick to masks and sanitisers only.

This entire shitstain of a post shows your true colours. Have you even seen how many excess natural deaths there were for July and August? 40000. You are comparing Covid with the flu, which is denying that it is actually incredibly dangerous.

Go fuck yourself, you are part of the problem. Lockdown saved countless lives, just look at what is happening in the US where half the population think like you. 180 000 dead, and they are heading into winter again

Read that last sentence again. SLOWLY.

[Big Nipper]

So 4-6 week lockdown, then basically back to normal? As I said, just look at the US, and the utter devastation that took place there. Or try on Brazil, who has a leader I am sure you fawn over.

THIS. IS. NOT. THE. FLU.

WE. HAVE. NO. VACCINE.

[troglodyte]

So 4-6 week lockdown, then basically back to normal? As I said, just look at the US, and the utter devastation that took place there. Or try on Brazil, who has a leader I am sure you fawn over.

THIS. IS. NOT. THE. FLU.

WE. HAVE. NO. VACCINE.

I did not say "back to normal". I specifically mentioned masks, sanitisers and social distancing.

If "Lockdown saves lives", then please explain the 13,000 deaths DURING a 6 months lockdown. Also, why don't we then have a lockdown every year for flu patients who dies? Don't their lives matter? We don't have a vaccine for the common Cold either, which is also caused by the Corona virus in about 15% of the time by the way.

You're starting on the false premise that lockdown saves lives. Even Ramaphosa, when he announced the lockdown, said it was to get the hospitals ready to deal with the virus. The medical profession saves lives, not the lockdown.

First, government failed spectacularly and didn't get the healthcare system ready during the initial lockdown. Hell, 5 months into the pandemic and medical workers still don't have PPE. They want to strike over this, rightfully so.

So we sacrificed jobs because the government failed to make use of the REAL reason for the lockdown. Those job losses force even more Saffas into poverty, thousands of whom will commit suicide because of it. And who will take care of those who did lose their job because of the lockdown. My wife was one of those who lost her job btw; she works on a commission structure, and couldn't earn a cent during lockdown. Then when they could go back to work, was informed the company closed down. 100 people list their jobs right there and then. Do you think the government's R350 pm will do anything? Oh and people working on a commission only basis can't even claim even that R350.

And this bullshit of yours about "showing your true colours" is just childish. Grow up. Nobody made you the judge of my moral character. This "people who disagree with me are evil" is the most narcissistic attitude possible.

[Big Nipper]

So 4-6 week lockdown, then basically back to normal? As I said, just look at the US, and the utter devastation that took place there. Or try on Brazil, who has a leader I am sure you fawn over.

THIS. IS. NOT. THE. FLU.

WE. HAVE. NO. VACCINE.

I did not say "back to normal". I specifically mentioned masks, sanitisers and social distancing.

If "Lockdown saves lives", then please explain the 13,000 deaths DURING a 6 months lockdown. Also, why don't we then have a lockdown every year for flu patients who dies? Don't their lives matter? We don't have a vaccine for the common Cold either, which is also caused by the Corona virus in about 15% of the time by the way.

You're starting on the false premise that lockdown saves lives. Even Ramaphosa, when he announced the lockdown, said it was to get the hospitals ready to deal with the virus. The medical profession saves lives, not the lockdown.

First, government failed spectacularly and didn't get the healthcare system ready during the initial lockdown. Hell, 5 months into the pandemic and medical workers still don't have PPE. They want to strike over this, rightfully so.

So we sacrificed jobs because the government failed to make use of the REAL reason for the lockdown. Those job losses force even more Saffas into poverty, thousands of whom will commit suicide because of it. And who will take care of those who did lose their job because of the lockdown. My wife was one of those who lost her job btw; she works on a commission structure, and couldn't earn a cent during lockdown. Then when they could go back to work, was informed the company closed down. 100 people list their jobs right there and then. Do you think the government's R350 pm will do anything? Oh and people working on a commission only basis can't even claim even that R350.

And this bullshit of yours about "showing your true colours" is just childish. Grow up. Nobody made you the judge of my moral character. This "people who disagree with me are evil" is the most narcissistic attitude possible.

We have flu vaccines to help us, we have medication to help fight the flu virus. But you already knew that. Your whataboutism is truly pathetic.

Stop comparing this to the flu please

[Sandstorm]

Hey Trog is your wife’s job more important than your neighbour’s life?

[troglodyte]

FFS, talk about over simplifying what I said. Disagreeing on concept is great for proper debating, but casting aspersions to what you THINK I'm saying by analysing my post using what you HOPE I'm saying is why the world is such a mess right now. We've lost the ability to properly discuss and debate.

Hey Trog is your wife’s job more important than your neighbour’s life?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

[Big Nipper]

Maybe stick to Covid denial, comedy is not your strong suit

[troglodyte]

Maybe stick to Covid denial, comedy is not your strong suit

I wasn't joking.

Serious post.

[Big Nipper]

Maybe stick to Covid denial, comedy is not your strong suit

I wasn't joking.

Serious post.

See my post above thx

[Chilli]

And here I thought that Amethyst was bad

[Sandstorm]

FFS, talk about over simplifying what I said. Disagreeing on concept is great for proper debating, but casting aspersions to what you THINK I'm saying by analysing my post using what you HOPE I'm saying is why the world is such a mess right now. We've lost the ability to properly discuss and debate.

Hey Trog is your wife’s job more important than your neighbour’s life?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

You’re not debating, you’re hysterically shouting about your personal financial pain. You don’t appear to care about lives, so I’m calling you on it.

We’re all in this together after just 6 months of a dangerous, global pandemic and at present the only weapon we have is Lockdown. It sux for many workers, but you’ll just have to suck it up a bit longer please.

[Fangle]

Ox was arguing that Sweden took the better route of no lockdown at all. How do their figures compare to South Africa? I’m having trouble getting to the worldinfo site.

[Sards]

FFS, talk about over simplifying what I said. Disagreeing on concept is great for proper debating, but casting aspersions to what you THINK I'm saying by analysing my post using what you HOPE I'm saying is why the world is such a mess right now. We've lost the ability to properly discuss and debate.

Hey Trog is your wife’s job more important than your neighbour’s life?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

You’re not debating, you’re hysterically shouting about your personal financial pain. You don’t appear to care about lives, so I’m calling you on it.

We’re all in this together after just 6 months of a dangerous, global pandemic and at present the only weapon we have is Lockdown. It sux for many workers, but you’ll just have to suck it up a bit longer please.

most are over it. Biggest scam ever

[troglodyte]

FFS, talk about over simplifying what I said. Disagreeing on concept is great for proper debating, but casting aspersions to what you THINK I'm saying by analysing my post using what you HOPE I'm saying is why the world is such a mess right now. We've lost the ability to properly discuss and debate.

Hey Trog is your wife’s job more important than your neighbour’s life?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

You’re not debating, you’re hysterically shouting about your personal financial pain. You don’t appear to care about lives, so I’m calling you on it.

We’re all in this together after just 6 months of a dangerous, global pandemic and at present the only weapon we have is Lockdown. It sux for many workers, but you’ll just have to suck it up a bit longer please.

Hysterical? I thought you'd be better than that SS. I mentioned my wife was one of the millions who lost her job due to the bad actions (or non actions) in passing. I wasn't hysterical at all, in fact she was one of the fortunate ones who managed to get a new, better job The day after she heard the company she worked for was closing down. But what about the other millions who won't be so lucky?

You and Nipper especially are pathetically missing my argument. Which I've been making for a couple of weeks now on this thread.

Go and read them again. I never said no lockdown. I said exactly what Ramaphosa said the day he announced the lockdown: that it was implemented to get the health care system ready to treat people. They failed at that. Some nurses and doctors still complain about a shortage of PPE - for frontline works! Thousands of them died too, but hey so what I guess.

If the government did their part, how many of the 13,000 deaths could've been avoided. Without the need for the level 5 lockdown lasting 5 months, or levels 4 and 3.

Go back a page or two, and you'll see what I thought the better approach would've been. Hard lockdown, get healthcare system ready, after 4-6 weeks we should've been at the level we are now. That would've been a better way to save lives, whilst keeping the economy going.


But yeah, from everything I post, one sentence gets picked - a sentence that doesn't really form part of my actual post, and that is then used to call me a C19 denier. As said, poor discussion skills.

Expected that strategy from Nipper, not SS.

But hey carry on. Fuck you all. I'm done with the 2 forums.

[Blake]

Ox was arguing that Sweden took the better route of no lockdown at all. How do their figures compare to South Africa? I’m having trouble getting to the worldinfo site.

SOUTH AFRICA
10435 Cases per Million Population
231 Deaths per Million Population

SWEDEN
8305 Cases per Million Population
568 Deaths per Million Population

So a first world country with a 5th the population and infinitely better healthcare infrastructure than us, have almost double the death rate.

That being said, there are some caveats:
1. Our outbreak is far from over. We might still overtake them with time.
2. The South African numbers are likely VERY understated, deaths possibly with a factor of 4.
3. Sweden had their first cases long before we did when much less was know about how the virus spread and how to treat it.
4. They were very unlucky with a large number of deaths early on in old age homes.

Personally I think Sweden’s model is a good compromise, but it is VERY difficult to implement. You need a well educated and supportive public with lots of trust in the government and public institutions. Few countries in the world have that.

[Chilli]

FFS, talk about over simplifying what I said. Disagreeing on concept is great for proper debating, but casting aspersions to what you THINK I'm saying by analysing my post using what you HOPE I'm saying is why the world is such a mess right now. We've lost the ability to properly discuss and debate.





Why does it have to be one or the other?

You’re not debating, you’re hysterically shouting about your personal financial pain. You don’t appear to care about lives, so I’m calling you on it.

We’re all in this together after just 6 months of a dangerous, global pandemic and at present the only weapon we have is Lockdown. It sux for many workers, but you’ll just have to suck it up a bit longer please.

Hysterical? I thought you'd be better than that SS. I mentioned my wife was one of the millions who lost her job due to the bad actions (or non actions) in passing. I wasn't hysterical at all, in fact she was one of the fortunate ones who managed to get a new, better job The day after she heard the company she worked for was closing down. But what about the other millions who won't be so lucky?

You and Nipper especially are pathetically missing my argument. Which I've been making for a couple of weeks now on this thread.

Go and read them again. I never said no lockdown. I said exactly what Ramaphosa said the day he announced the lockdown: that it was implemented to get the health care system ready to treat people. They failed at that. Some nurses and doctors still complain about a shortage of PPE - for frontline works! Thousands of them died too, but hey so what I guess.

If the government did their part, how many of the 13,000 deaths could've been avoided. Without the need for the level 5 lockdown lasting 5 months, or levels 4 and 3.

Go back a page or two, and you'll see what I thought the better approach would've been. Hard lockdown, get healthcare system ready, after 4-6 weeks we should've been at the level we are now. That would've been a better way to save lives, whilst keeping the economy going.


But yeah, from everything I post, one sentence gets picked - a sentence that doesn't really form part of my actual post, and that is then used to call me a C19 denier. As said, poor discussion skills.

Expected that strategy from Nipper, not SS.

But hey carry on. Fuck you all. I'm done with the 2 forums.

Trogs, I lost your number when my phone was stolen. Please send me a WhatsApp

[Blake]

Or just use this awesome bored’s direct messaging function

[Fangle]

Ox was arguing that Sweden took the better route of no lockdown at all. How do their figures compare to South Africa? I’m having trouble getting to the worldinfo site.

SOUTH AFRICA
10435 Cases per Million Population
231 Deaths per Million Population

SWEDEN
8305 Cases per Million Population
568 Deaths per Million Population

So a first world country with a 5th the population and infinitely better healthcare infrastructure than us, have almost double the death rate.

That being said, there are some caveats:
1. Our outbreak is far from over. We might still overtake them with time.
2. The South African numbers are likely VERY understated, deaths possibly with a factor of 4.
3. Sweden had their first cases long before we did when much less was know about how the virus spread and how to treat it.
4. They were very unlucky with a large number of deaths early on in old age homes.

Personally I think Sweden’s model is a good compromise, but it is VERY difficult to implement. You need a well educated and supportive public with lots of trust in the government and public institutions. Few countries in the world have that.

It’s good to be able to rely on Blake for a sensible answer without emotion. Thanks.

[Blake]

Thanks Fangle

The other thing that’s interesting about Sweden is that they did not have “no response” as is often stated. They just didn’t have an enforced government mandated lockdown.

Their Health Ministry (which is independent and apolitical by law) gave the same recommendations that we got, but their population (and businesses) actually adhered to them for the most part.

So restaurants were allowed to remain open, but kept capacity limited, and people refrained from eating in if the restaurant was too full...little compromises and sacrifices by all for the greater good.

At least that is what I saw in some reports.

[Chilli]

I must say that the happenings at the ANC meeting this weekend has made me fear for our future.

I hope that the President attacks Ace and his buddies by locking them up.

I can't see it happening though.

[handyman]

This is a forum where everyone is entitled to his own opinion, be it right or wrong. I find it sad that posters like nipper hounds a poster like trogs until he feel he has to quit the bored. Picking phrases out of a post to suit their own agenda, rinkhals style. What use is a forum when all that are left are posters of the same opinion?

[Big Nipper]

This is a forum where everyone is entitled to his own opinion, be it right or wrong. I find it sad that posters like nipper hounds a poster like trogs until he feel he has to quit the bored. Picking phrases out of a post to suit their own agenda, rinkhals style. What use is a forum when all that are left are posters of the same opinion?

[Blake]

Does Big Nipper troll?

Sure he does, but let's be honest, there have always been a couple of trolls on here. It's hardly 'n "safe space".

I like Trogs, I really do. I think he is a decent man and admire him for being open about his financial, mental health and addiction struggles. And I understand why many on here are backing his corner when Nipper comes out swinging.

I kind of get where Nipper is coming from too. While I agree more with BN than Trogs on most issues, I just try to take a different approach because I know that Trogs is at his core a reasonable guys that can be persuaded if a good case can be made.

That being said, Trogs also seems to be falling down some internet conspiracy theory rabbit holes that has me worried. I suppose with this Mason connections he was always going to be pre-disposed to that world. While I don't think Nipper's tactics are productive, I do believe that some ideas need to be challenged and sometimes aggressively so.

[handyman]

Does Big Nipper troll?

Sure he does, but let's be honest, there have always been a couple of trolls on here. It's hardly 'n "safe space".

I like Trogs, I really do. I think he is a decent man and admire him for being open about his financial, mental health and addiction struggles. And I understand why many on here are backing his corner when Nipper comes out swinging.

I kind of get where Nipper is coming from too. While I agree more with BN than Trogs on most issues, I just try to take a different approach because I know that Trogs is at his core a reasonable guys that can be persuaded if a good case can be made.

That being said, Trogs also seems to be falling down some internet conspiracy theory rabbit holes that has me worried. I suppose with this Mason connections he was always going to be pre-disposed to that world. While I don't think Nipper's tactics are productive, I do believe that some ideas need to be challenged and sometimes aggressively so.

Each have their own opinions (strong ones) and rightly so, that is your right. Surely tho, it's better to debate a point of discussion and not to resort to name calling, insults etc. It borders on childish behaviour, scratch that, it is childish behaviour.

I prefer trog's method of trying to explain his point in a few posts, alas in vain, as posters only read without understanding.

[assfly]

It all comes down to attack the post, not the poster.

[Blake]

It all comes down to attack the post, not the poster.

Well, nobody seems to be calling out the posters that attack Nipper personally over and over again.
Specifically sards and OomSB...they take personal cheap shots all the time.

[handyman]

It all comes down to attack the post, not the poster.

Exactly.

[Big Nipper]

Does Big Nipper troll?

Sure he does, but let's be honest, there have always been a couple of trolls on here. It's hardly 'n "safe space".

I like Trogs, I really do. I think he is a decent man and admire him for being open about his financial, mental health and addiction struggles. And I understand why many on here are backing his corner when Nipper comes out swinging.

I kind of get where Nipper is coming from too. While I agree more with BN than Trogs on most issues, I just try to take a different approach because I know that Trogs is at his core a reasonable guys that can be persuaded if a good case can be made.

That being said, Trogs also seems to be falling down some internet conspiracy theory rabbit holes that has me worried. I suppose with this Mason connections he was always going to be pre-disposed to that world. While I don't think Nipper's tactics are productive, I do believe that some ideas need to be challenged and sometimes aggressively so.

Each have their own opinions (strong ones) and rightly so, that is your right. Surely tho, it's better to debate a point of discussion and not to resort to name calling, insults etc. It borders on childish behaviour, scratch that, it is childish behaviour.

I prefer trog's method of trying to explain his point in a few posts, alas in vain, as posters only read without understanding.

Any fool who tries to downplay the most catastrophic natural phenomena for the last 100yrs with facebook conspiracy theories deserves to be personally derided

[handyman]

It all comes down to attack the post, not the poster.

Well, nobody seems to be calling out the posters that attack Nipper personally over and over again.
Specifically sards and OomSB...they take personal cheap shots all the time.

Sards is only on here to derail any and every discussion and to troll WP/Stormers supporters.

[handyman]

Does Big Nipper troll?

Sure he does, but let's be honest, there have always been a couple of trolls on here. It's hardly 'n "safe space".

I like Trogs, I really do. I think he is a decent man and admire him for being open about his financial, mental health and addiction struggles. And I understand why many on here are backing his corner when Nipper comes out swinging.

I kind of get where Nipper is coming from too. While I agree more with BN than Trogs on most issues, I just try to take a different approach because I know that Trogs is at his core a reasonable guys that can be persuaded if a good case can be made.

That being said, Trogs also seems to be falling down some internet conspiracy theory rabbit holes that has me worried. I suppose with this Mason connections he was always going to be pre-disposed to that world. While I don't think Nipper's tactics are productive, I do believe that some ideas need to be challenged and sometimes aggressively so.

Each have their own opinions (strong ones) and rightly so, that is your right. Surely tho, it's better to debate a point of discussion and not to resort to name calling, insults etc. It borders on childish behaviour, scratch that, it is childish behaviour.

I prefer trog's method of trying to explain his point in a few posts, alas in vain, as posters only read without understanding.

Any fool who tries to downplay the most catastrophic natural phenomena for the last 100yrs with facebook conspiracy theories deserves to be personally derided

Only in your world boet. But, I'm not a mod, so as you were. Have at it.

[Big Nipper]

Do you think I should be banned for what I posted?

[assfly]

Well, nobody seems to be calling out the posters that attack Nipper personally over and over again.
Specifically sards and OomSB...they take personal cheap shots all the time.

From my point of view, it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. That's why I don't get involved.

[handyman]

Do you think I should be banned for what I posted?

No. I do think it's childish and for the life of me I cannot see what you're trying to achieve by that. No way trogs is going to be convinced by your point the more you insult him. He's not going to lie curled up in a ball on his bed in the dark feeling bad about you sledging him + you look like a prize twat doing it.

[Big Nipper]

Do you think I should be banned for what I posted?

No. I do think it's childish and for the life of me I cannot see what you're trying to achieve by that. No way trogs is going to be convinced by your point the more you insult him. He's not going to lie curled up in a ball on his bed in the dark feeling bad about you sledging him + you look like a prize twat doing it.

The only twat is the guy who thinks that Covid is not as bad as the 1000s of specialists say

[OomStruisbaai]

Do you think I should be banned for what I posted?

Most of the time.

[OomStruisbaai]

It all comes down to attack the post, not the poster.

Well, nobody seems to be calling out the posters that attack Nipper personally over and over again.
Specifically sards and OomSB...they take personal cheap shots all the time.

Vok jou Boetie. Nipper love his one liners on my and Sards posts.

[handyman]

Do you think I should be banned for what I posted?

No. I do think it's childish and for the life of me I cannot see what you're trying to achieve by that. No way trogs is going to be convinced by your point the more you insult him. He's not going to lie curled up in a ball on his bed in the dark feeling bad about you sledging him + you look like a prize twat doing it.

The only twat is the guy who thinks that Covid is not as bad as the 1000s of specialists say

Well, then it should be easy for you to prove with evidence that he is talking kak, but replying with 1 liner insults adds no value. As assfly said, attack the post, not the poster.

[OomStruisbaai]

No. I do think it's childish and for the life of me I cannot see what you're trying to achieve by that. No way trogs is going to be convinced by your point the more you insult him. He's not going to lie curled up in a ball on his bed in the dark feeling bad about you sledging him + you look like a prize twat doing it.

The only twat is the guy who thinks that Covid is not as bad as the 1000s of specialists say

Well, then it should be easy for you to prove with evidence that he is talking kak, but replying with 1 liner insults adds no value. As assfly said, attack the post, not the poster.

He have this kak habit of attacking the poster always. Like your knowledge of cricket. Trogs is one of our best posters, still he just cant help himself to leave him. We lost some quality posters who dont have a thick skin. Personal insults is the main reason of posting on a forum.