The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[I like neeps]

That’s a bit harsh on Matt Scott, my memory of the game is that our pack took a beating and we were on the back foot against a back line that was on fire, that Saffa attack is woefully underrated because of the monsters in front of them.

Scott made a very obvious error in stepping out of the defensive line and got beaten by de Allende as a result, ending in a try

Mark Bennett missed a tackle against the All Blacks a week ago, he was dropped for Argentina, I wonder if he’ll be in the 6N squad?

As Townsend demands defensive excellence of his centres you'd have to think Bennett might be in trouble, especially as Townsend didn't fancy him for a while either. Scott had a bad game in attack as well though. And he's 30 with 40 odd caps there's no future payoff there. He's either our best option or he's not an option. And he's been far from the best option since his Edinburgh purple patch.

[Tichtheid]

That’s a bit harsh on Matt Scott, my memory of the game is that our pack took a beating and we were on the back foot against a back line that was on fire, that Saffa attack is woefully underrated because of the monsters in front of them.

Scott made a very obvious error in stepping out of the defensive line and got beaten by de Allende as a result, ending in a try

Mark Bennett missed a tackle against the All Blacks a week ago, he was dropped for Argentina, I wonder if he’ll be in the 6N squad?

As Townsend demands defensive excellence of his centres you'd have to think Bennett might be in trouble, especially as Townsend didn't fancy him for a while either. Scott had a bad game in attack as well though. And he's 30 with 40 odd caps there's no future payoff there. He's either our best option or he's not an option. And he's been far from the best option since his Edinburgh purple patch.

Apart from when was really very good for Leicester in their run to the title last season, and the one before, right enough.

It was interesting to me that Scott was playing his best at 12 for Edinburgh, but Tigers often played him at 13, as did Glaws before.
It's interesting to me because it was a very long running debate was to what was his best centre position on the Embra forum.

I laughed the other week when I was watching a Premiership game and Scott was the best player on the park, and on both sides of the ball, the commentators were saying that Scott will no doubt be in Gregor Townsend's plans for the Autumn Internationals.

I actually said "Not. A. Chance." out loud whilst watching on my own.

[Big D]

Fin Smith currently following the Redpath route of gaining knowledge of the England camp prior to joining the good guys.

[I like neeps]

That’s a bit harsh on Matt Scott, my memory of the game is that our pack took a beating and we were on the back foot against a back line that was on fire, that Saffa attack is woefully underrated because of the monsters in front of them.

Scott made a very obvious error in stepping out of the defensive line and got beaten by de Allende as a result, ending in a try

Mark Bennett missed a tackle against the All Blacks a week ago, he was dropped for Argentina, I wonder if he’ll be in the 6N squad?

As Townsend demands defensive excellence of his centres you'd have to think Bennett might be in trouble, especially as Townsend didn't fancy him for a while either. Scott had a bad game in attack as well though. And he's 30 with 40 odd caps there's no future payoff there. He's either our best option or he's not an option. And he's been far from the best option since his Edinburgh purple patch.

Apart from when was really very good for Leicester in their run to the title last season, and the one before, right enough.

It was interesting to me that Scott was playing his best at 12 for Edinburgh, but Tigers often played him at 13, as did Glaws before.
It's interesting to me because it was a very long running debate was to what was his best centre position on the Embra forum.

I laughed the other week when I was watching a Premiership game and Scott was the best player on the park, and on both sides of the ball, the commentators were saying that Scott will no doubt be in Gregor Townsend's plans for the Autumn Internationals.

I actually said "Not. A. Chance." out loud whilst watching on my own.

The run in when he was on the bench for the final (included due to an injury to Kelly), not in the 23 for the semi or the Champions Cup QF and didn't play for them in their challenge cup final the year before?

It's extremely credible being a bit part player for a really good squad but he's not one of the better centres in England and Leicester don't pick him as a first choice in their biggest games. So not really sure that makes him a really good option for Scotland.

[Tichtheid]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

[Yr Alban]

That’s a bit harsh on Matt Scott, my memory of the game is that our pack took a beating and we were on the back foot against a back line that was on fire, that Saffa attack is woefully underrated because of the monsters in front of them.

Scott made a very obvious error in stepping out of the defensive line and got beaten by de Allende as a result, ending in a try

Mark Bennett missed a tackle against the All Blacks a week ago, he was dropped for Argentina, I wonder if he’ll be in the 6N squad?

As Townsend demands defensive excellence of his centres you'd have to think Bennett might be in trouble, especially as Townsend didn't fancy him for a while either. Scott had a bad game in attack as well though. And he's 30 with 40 odd caps there's no future payoff there. He's either our best option or he's not an option. And he's been far from the best option since his Edinburgh purple patch.

Apart from when was really very good for Leicester in their run to the title last season, and the one before, right enough.

It was interesting to me that Scott was playing his best at 12 for Edinburgh, but Tigers often played him at 13, as did Glaws before.
It's interesting to me because it was a very long running debate was to what was his best centre position on the Embra forum.

I laughed the other week when I was watching a Premiership game and Scott was the best player on the park, and on both sides of the ball, the commentators were saying that Scott will no doubt be in Gregor Townsend's plans for the Autumn Internationals.

I actually said "Not. A. Chance." out loud whilst watching on my own.

I always rated Scott, and I thought he had never really had the opportunity to play in a back-line better than the one we had when he first broke into the team. Spent ages saying he should get another shot. But eventually he did get a shot and he didn’t impress, so I stopped. Given that Hutchinson can’t even get a go at 12 despite earning rave reviews for Northampton, can’t see Scott getting back in. But then again, Richie Gray has come back from the wilderness, so never say never

[Yr Alban]

Fin Smith currently following the Redpath route of gaining knowledge of the England camp prior to joining the good guys.

Hope he hasn’t already made up his mind to be English. Would seem a shame - not just because of his grandfather, but the fact that his parents named him Finlay would seem to suggest they would prefer him to opt for Scotland…

[I like neeps]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

I literally didn't say any of that though did I.

Scott plays a good number of games for Tigers. He doesn't start their big matches and often isn't in the squad for them. That's what the role he plays for them, when the biggest games come around he's left out. I then followed up with saying it was very credible to reach that level of performance and in that role for a big club. But it's not what an international side should be looking for. None of which is saying he's bad at rugby. Leicester need good players to beat Newcastle on a Friday night so they can play Sarries in a final. My comments on his ability was bad game against SA and at his age and experience with the competition Scotland has he won't get a look in (which you agreed with) and that he had a great stretch for Edinburgh.

[Biffer]

Looks a pretty handy short term signing for Edinburgh, Tom Cruse, Wasps hooker. Given Cherry and McBurney are injured for a while he’ll see plenty of game time I reckon. Hope it doesn’t stop Paddy getting good game time though.

[dpedin]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

I literally didn't say any of that though did I.

Scott plays a good number of games for Tigers. He doesn't start their big matches and often isn't in the squad for them. That's what the role he plays for them, when the biggest games come around he's left out. I then followed up with saying it was very credible to reach that level of performance and in that role for a big club. But it's not what an international side should be looking for. None of which is saying he's bad at rugby. Leicester need good players to beat Newcastle on a Friday night so they can play Sarries in a final. My comments on his ability was bad game against SA and at his age and experience with the competition Scotland has he won't get a look in (which you agreed with) and that he had a great stretch for Edinburgh.

I've liked Scott as a player since I saw him play at 10 for Currie v Heriots I think. He was a stand out player at that game and ran the show as stand off. I always thought he was going to be our next 10 but Embra shifted him to centre when he went pro. He has played well for Embra in both stints, was a regular first team choice for Gloucester when down there and has played over 50 times for Leicester in the last couple of years. Over 175 pro appearances in his career, which isn't too shabby these days given squad rotations, impact subs, international call ups and rest protocols, injuries, etc. Looks like a lot of coaches have rated him highly? However as is always the case different coaches prefer different players and don't always get it right ... Cockerill obviously didn't rate Darge very highly, didnt play him much and eventually let him go to the Weegies, doesn't mean Darge isn't a top class player!

[Tichtheid]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

I literally didn't say any of that though did I.

Scott plays a good number of games for Tigers. He doesn't start their big matches and often isn't in the squad for them. That's what the role he plays for them, when the biggest games come around he's left out. I then followed up with saying it was very credible to reach that level of performance and in that role for a big club. But it's not what an international side should be looking for. None of which is saying he's bad at rugby. Leicester need good players to beat Newcastle on a Friday night so they can play Sarries in a final. My comments on his ability was bad game against SA and at his age and experience with the competition Scotland has he won't get a look in (which you agreed with) and that he had a great stretch for Edinburgh.

Season 20/21 - Scott started 18 out of 19 games for Tigers, he missed four rounds of the premiership over the course of the season. He started in 4 Challenge Cup games, including the quarter and semi final, I don't know if he was injured for the final.
That's quite a big bit part for this bit part player.

Season 21/22 - Scott was starting up to and including round 14 of the Premiership and in the Champions Cup, he was mainly on the bench after that with a few more starts, ending with 16 starts from 23 games, another big bit part.

Season 22/23 - Scott has started 5/5 games from the 7 Leicester have played.

It was the dismissal as a "bit part" player I objected to, it's indicative of the unrelenting negativity I see online - there is a thread on this board dedicated to one of the most creative players in world rugby and how he is a flake, Sione Tuipulotu had a good series, but he is called out for dropping a pass that would have put us into a good position against Australia, Ollie Smith scores a lovely try beating two defenders in the process but he is warned that he is lucky he didn't butcher an overlap, I'm not going to go in to all the Kinghorn stuff again, but there's tons of examples, and every week.

I just find it all tiresome, I am aware that this is what people do online and that is what it is. I just wonder, where is the fun? Is the fun really in berating players like we see in match threads, rather than enjoying some of the brilliance on display?

I'm not saying that mistakes shouldn't be mentioned, but I just see and lot of focus on them rather than on the positive side - Nel makes it to 50 caps at the age of 36 and a half, Darcy Graham's finishing is nothing short of world class right now, Walker breaking through to become a genuine back up option to Fagerson, just the first three things that come to mind on just Scotland over the AIs.

Whatever, like I say I'm not going to try and persuade anyone on the more optimistic view, not for a while, I'm tired of it.

[Slick]

I think the issue we have in the centres is Toonie feels we need strong defenders in there. When you look at the first choice back line in terms of defence, you have:
Hogg: pretty poor 1 on 1 defender
Duhan: positionally suspect in defence
Darcy: great positioning and brave as a lion but his size is his size
Finn: robust and clever but not a notable defender
Price: not a good defender, small.

You can kind of see his thinking that we need a defensive organiser and a robust presence in there to shore things up, ergo Harris. Harris may not do anything flashy but he a) organises and b) probably more importantly understands when the line is in trouble. Watch back a match and the number of times he shoots out and kills an opposition attack is crazy. Looking wider at those plays it’s usually because we are in trouble defensively.

All this to say we are exceptionally unlikely to move away from a more defensively focussed and bigger centre partnership of Harris and Tupo under Toonie, regardless of how well someone like Scott or Hutch plays.

Yes, that was what I was alluding to in my original post about the centres, Harris needs to be there because the back 3 need protected. Finn is a great defender though, even Toony was singing his praises in defence after the weekend.

In Harris, last year against Japan I got bored fairly quickly at the game so decided just to watch Harris for about 20 minutes and the work he does in organising the defence and communicating to the whole team is exceptional. His issue is of course go forward where he is not good enough although I’m sure I remember him cutting some great lines in last years 6N

[Tichtheid]

Looks a pretty handy short term signing for Edinburgh, Tom Cruse, Wasps hooker. Given Cherry and McBurney are injured for a while he’ll see plenty of game time I reckon. Hope it doesn’t stop Paddy getting good game time though.

I think Harrison has a big future ahead of him, he only turned 20 in the summer. For the next few months it's going to be Rambo, Harrison and Cruse, I'm sure he'll get game time, he was very good against Cardiff.

McInally's run of injuries are a bit of a concern.

[Jock42]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

[Tichtheid]

I think the issue we have in the centres is Toonie feels we need strong defenders in there. When you look at the first choice back line in terms of defence, you have:
Hogg: pretty poor 1 on 1 defender
Duhan: positionally suspect in defence
Darcy: great positioning and brave as a lion but his size is his size
Finn: robust and clever but not a notable defender
Price: not a good defender, small.

You can kind of see his thinking that we need a defensive organiser and a robust presence in there to shore things up, ergo Harris. Harris may not do anything flashy but he a) organises and b) probably more importantly understands when the line is in trouble. Watch back a match and the number of times he shoots out and kills an opposition attack is crazy. Looking wider at those plays it’s usually because we are in trouble defensively.

All this to say we are exceptionally unlikely to move away from a more defensively focussed and bigger centre partnership of Harris and Tupo under Toonie, regardless of how well someone like Scott or Hutch plays.

Yes, that was what I was alluding to in my original post about the centres, Harris needs to be there because the back 3 need protected. Finn is a great defender though, even Toony was singing his praises in defence after the weekend.

In Harris, last year against Japan I got bored fairly quickly at the game so decided just to watch Harris for about 20 minutes and the work he does in organising the defence and communicating to the whole team is exceptional. His issue is of course go forward where he is not good enough although I’m sure I remember him cutting some great lines in last years 6N

Harris has always looked good going forward for Glaws when I've watched them over the last couple of years.

Is our attack focussed on the back three, rather than the midfield, with the centres doing little more than trucking it up and shipping ball wide?
I haven't watched Scotland with that in mind to try and see what is happening, but I don't think Harris receives lots of passes, when you see his pass and run stats on ESPN, they are not stratospheric.

[Tichtheid]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

I read you saying that on another thread, it was the first I'd heard of it

[robmatic]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

The Thistle Podcast said in one of their newsletters that Ashman is coming north to replace McInally at the end of the season.

[Tichtheid]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

The Thistle Podcast said in one of their newsletters that Ashman is coming north to replace McInally at the end of the season.

I'll be sorry to see him go. I wonder if he'll go to another club, he'll be 33 before the start of next season?

Ashman would be a bit of a coup.

[Slick]

I think the issue we have in the centres is Toonie feels we need strong defenders in there. When you look at the first choice back line in terms of defence, you have:
Hogg: pretty poor 1 on 1 defender
Duhan: positionally suspect in defence
Darcy: great positioning and brave as a lion but his size is his size
Finn: robust and clever but not a notable defender
Price: not a good defender, small.

You can kind of see his thinking that we need a defensive organiser and a robust presence in there to shore things up, ergo Harris. Harris may not do anything flashy but he a) organises and b) probably more importantly understands when the line is in trouble. Watch back a match and the number of times he shoots out and kills an opposition attack is crazy. Looking wider at those plays it’s usually because we are in trouble defensively.

All this to say we are exceptionally unlikely to move away from a more defensively focussed and bigger centre partnership of Harris and Tupo under Toonie, regardless of how well someone like Scott or Hutch plays.

Yes, that was what I was alluding to in my original post about the centres, Harris needs to be there because the back 3 need protected. Finn is a great defender though, even Toony was singing his praises in defence after the weekend.

In Harris, last year against Japan I got bored fairly quickly at the game so decided just to watch Harris for about 20 minutes and the work he does in organising the defence and communicating to the whole team is exceptional. His issue is of course go forward where he is not good enough although I’m sure I remember him cutting some great lines in last years 6N

Harris has always looked good going forward for Glaws when I've watched them over the last couple of years.

Is our attack focussed on the back three, rather than the midfield, with the centres doing little more than trucking it up and shipping ball wide?
I haven't watched Scotland with that in mind to try and see what is happening, but I don't think Harris receives lots of passes, when you see his pass and run stats on ESPN, they are not stratospheric.

I suppose you play with what you’ve got. Johnson and Redpath get regular ball to hit the line, but both of them also have good distribution. A 13 has a slightly different remit, to look for the outside drift or hold up the cover defence to give the back 3 the space, he’s not bad at either of those. I just think his attacking vision and passing skills are not really where you would expect them to be for Ann international centre. I’m saying that, it’s more of an observation than anything else because, like you, I’ve never really had a problem with him and think he adds an awful lot more than he gives away

[Jock42]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

The Thistle Podcast said in one of their newsletters that Ashman is coming north to replace McInally at the end of the season.

Thats probably what I'm ghinking of. The Ashman rumour rings a bell.

[Yr Alban]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

I literally didn't say any of that though did I.

Scott plays a good number of games for Tigers. He doesn't start their big matches and often isn't in the squad for them. That's what the role he plays for them, when the biggest games come around he's left out. I then followed up with saying it was very credible to reach that level of performance and in that role for a big club. But it's not what an international side should be looking for. None of which is saying he's bad at rugby. Leicester need good players to beat Newcastle on a Friday night so they can play Sarries in a final. My comments on his ability was bad game against SA and at his age and experience with the competition Scotland has he won't get a look in (which you agreed with) and that he had a great stretch for Edinburgh.

Season 20/21 - Scott started 18 out of 19 games for Tigers, he missed four rounds of the premiership over the course of the season. He started in 4 Challenge Cup games, including the quarter and semi final, I don't know if he was injured for the final.
That's quite a big bit part for this bit part player.

Season 21/22 - Scott was starting up to and including round 14 of the Premiership and in the Champions Cup, he was mainly on the bench after that with a few more starts, ending with 16 starts from 23 games, another big bit part.

Season 22/23 - Scott has started 5/5 games from the 7 Leicester have played.

It was the dismissal as a "bit part" player I objected to, it's indicative of the unrelenting negativity I see online - there is a thread on this board dedicated to one of the most creative players in world rugby and how he is a flake, Sione Tuipulotu had a good series, but he is called out for dropping a pass that would have put us into a good position against Australia, Ollie Smith scores a lovely try beating two defenders in the process but he is warned that he is lucky he didn't butcher an overlap, I'm not going to go in to all the Kinghorn stuff again, but there's tons of examples, and every week.

I just find it all tiresome, I am aware that this is what people do online and that is what it is. I just wonder, where is the fun? Is the fun really in berating players like we see in match threads, rather than enjoying some of the brilliance on display?

I'm not saying that mistakes shouldn't be mentioned, but I just see and lot of focus on them rather than on the positive side - Nel makes it to 50 caps at the age of 36 and a half, Darcy Graham's finishing is nothing short of world class right now, Walker breaking through to become a genuine back up option to Fagerson, just the first three things that come to mind on just Scotland over the AIs.

Whatever, like I say I'm not going to try and persuade anyone on the more optimistic view, not for a while, I'm tired of it.

For what it’s worth, I think that as Scotland fans we have developed a hugely pessimistic streak just to avoid being hurt too much. I expect most of us here are mid-40s or older. We all grew up with great Scotland teams that challenged and won championships. Unfortunately this was actually an outlier in rugby history. Then the game went pro, we didn’t adapt well at all, and we went to a very dark place indeed for a very long time.

Now we’re back out of that place again, and quite a lot of the time we look decent - decent enough to compete with anyone. But we can’t allow ourselves to believe again, because we’ve been hurt too many times and it’s easier to do without hope than to have it dashed.

I keep coming back to the fact that two extra points v Wales in 2021 would have given us the title. If we could have broken our duck for this century, it might be a wee bit easier. But I guess we keep trying.

[robmatic]

Did I read on here a rumour that McInally will leave at the end of the season?

The Thistle Podcast said in one of their newsletters that Ashman is coming north to replace McInally at the end of the season.

I'll be sorry to see him go. I wonder if he'll go to another club, he'll be 33 before the start of next season?

Ashman would be a bit of a coup.

I'm wondering if it's injury related, he has had a torrid time with various injuries the last couple of seasons.

[Tichtheid]

The Thistle Podcast said in one of their newsletters that Ashman is coming north to replace McInally at the end of the season.

I'll be sorry to see him go. I wonder if he'll go to another club, he'll be 33 before the start of next season?

Ashman would be a bit of a coup.

I'm wondering if it's injury related, he has had a torrid time with various injuries the last couple of seasons.

Yeah, that was my line of thinking too.

Maybe he'll become a fulltime pilot!

[Big D]

I'll be sorry to see him go. I wonder if he'll go to another club, he'll be 33 before the start of next season?

Ashman would be a bit of a coup.

I'm wondering if it's injury related, he has had a torrid time with various injuries the last couple of seasons.

Yeah, that was my line of thinking too.

Maybe he'll become a fulltime pilot!

He has a coffee business with Hoyland too I think.

[Big D]

For what it’s worth, I think that as Scotland fans we have developed a hugely pessimistic streak just to avoid being hurt too much. I expect most of us here are mid-40s or older. We all grew up with great Scotland teams that challenged and won championships. Unfortunately this was actually an outlier in rugby history. Then the game went pro, we didn’t adapt well at all, and we went to a very dark place indeed for a very long time.

Now we’re back out of that place again, and quite a lot of the time we look decent - decent enough to compete with anyone. But we can’t allow ourselves to believe again, because we’ve been hurt too many times and it’s easier to do without hope than to have it dashed.

I keep coming back to the fact that two extra points v Wales in 2021 would have given us the title. If we could have broken our duck for this century, it might be a wee bit easier. But I guess we keep trying.

To be fair if we had beaten Wales that puts a whole different frame around the France game and if we say "2 extra points against Wales", France would almost certainly say "if we kicked it out at the end" which is a far easier task.

For me it isn't pessimism but frustration at often seeing the same mistakes over and over and a game plan that feels ineffective against the type of nations that the Townsend lead national side has rarely looked like beating, and then the rare time we do low and behold we make the same mistakes. I really think there is a lot more to give from the group of players we have at our disposal.

[Big D]

Ulster reporting that Sutherland is not out long term which is positive.

[Wylie Coyote]

For what it’s worth, I think that as Scotland fans we have developed a hugely pessimistic streak just to avoid being hurt too much. I expect most of us here are mid-40s or older. We all grew up with great Scotland teams that challenged and won championships. Unfortunately this was actually an outlier in rugby history. Then the game went pro, we didn’t adapt well at all, and we went to a very dark place indeed for a very long time.

Now we’re back out of that place again, and quite a lot of the time we look decent - decent enough to compete with anyone. But we can’t allow ourselves to believe again, because we’ve been hurt too many times and it’s easier to do without hope than to have it dashed.

I keep coming back to the fact that two extra points v Wales in 2021 would have given us the title. If we could have broken our duck for this century, it might be a wee bit easier. But I guess we keep trying.

To be fair if we had beaten Wales that puts a whole different frame around the France game and if we say "2 extra points against Wales", France would almost certainly say "if we kicked it out at the end" which is a far easier task.

For me it isn't pessimism but frustration at often seeing the same mistakes over and over and a game plan that feels ineffective against the type of nations that the Townsend lead national side has rarely looked like beating, and then the rare time we do low and behold we make the same mistakes. I really think there is a lot more to give from the group of players we have at our disposal.

Totally agree. What I find maddening is the we tend to spectacular things, pieces of real genius and brilliant play, then do simple, bread and butter things incredibly badly. It is infuriating. It feels like the biggest problem we have is the top 2 inches, decision making under pressure just goes to pot. The last few years it has shown itself in giving away soft, soft penalties. 2 or 3 phases for our opponents just over our half way line and they can pretty much guarantee that Scotland will gift them a penalty. I find myself screaming at the TV "DO NOT GIVE AWAY A PEN..... oh I give up". I contrast it with Ireland and they can defend for an entire half and give away no penalties whatsover, quite happy to soak it up.

I look at our group of players and I think it is the strongest that I can recall, but I also look at the likes of Hogg & Russell, generational talents, and fear their time is now and we are may well squander them.

[Tichtheid]

I look at our group of players and I think it is the strongest that I can recall, but I also look at the likes of Hogg & Russell, generational talents, and fear their time is now and we are may well squander them.

There was a topic came up on the Weedgie board and one game in particular, I looked up our pack - Chunk, Ford, Murray, Hines, Hamilton, White (Capt), Hogg, Taylor

When we had a pack we didn't have the backs of the same calibre. We've had backs for a wee while and our pack looks to be getting a bit better after years of getting beaten up, I'd still like to see more dynamism and street smarts - mainly not getting isolated and turned over.

It may be that Hogg and Russell go by without us making the step up, iirc O'Driscoll and that cohort didn't win as much as they might have, Ireland only really became very good/successful after they'd finished.

[Biffer]

I look at our group of players and I think it is the strongest that I can recall, but I also look at the likes of Hogg & Russell, generational talents, and fear their time is now and we are may well squander them.

There was a topic came up on the Weedgie board and one game in particular, I looked up our pack - Chunk, Ford, Murray, Hines, Hamilton, White (Capt), Hogg, Taylor

When we had a pack we didn't have the backs of the same calibre. We've had backs for a wee while and our pack looks to be getting a bit better after years of getting beaten up, I'd still like to see more dynamism and street smarts - mainly not getting isolated and turned over.

It may be that Hogg and Russell go by without us making the step up, iirc O'Driscoll and that cohort didn't win as much as they might have, Ireland only really became very good/successful after they'd finished.

Compare the pack now to the pack then and it’s not so much talent that’s the difference as the absence of right nasty bastards now.

O’Driscoll only won two six nations, the second of them at the age of 35.

[I like neeps]

I think perhaps comparing ourselves with Ireland after BoD is a maybe wee bit optimistic when you look at their domestic set up compared to ours. There isn't a country who administer rugby as well as Ireland do. Age grades have been competitive for a while, their pro clubs are at the top of the game. It's very impressive and unfortunately not something we have.

[I like neeps]

"Bit part player", you've obviously spent time looking up the numbers, how many starts has he made and how many total appearances over the last two seasons?

I've been following him by watching the games and occasionally reading their forum

But, whatever, he's shite right enough, so don't bother with an answer.

This is dull as fuck. I'm done with trying to explain why players are not keich.

Hope you enjoy the rugby, it's obviously a strain for some folk.

I literally didn't say any of that though did I.

Scott plays a good number of games for Tigers. He doesn't start their big matches and often isn't in the squad for them. That's what the role he plays for them, when the biggest games come around he's left out. I then followed up with saying it was very credible to reach that level of performance and in that role for a big club. But it's not what an international side should be looking for. None of which is saying he's bad at rugby. Leicester need good players to beat Newcastle on a Friday night so they can play Sarries in a final. My comments on his ability was bad game against SA and at his age and experience with the competition Scotland has he won't get a look in (which you agreed with) and that he had a great stretch for Edinburgh.

Season 20/21 - Scott started 18 out of 19 games for Tigers, he missed four rounds of the premiership over the course of the season. He started in 4 Challenge Cup games, including the quarter and semi final, I don't know if he was injured for the final.
That's quite a big bit part for this bit part player.

Season 21/22 - Scott was starting up to and including round 14 of the Premiership and in the Champions Cup, he was mainly on the bench after that with a few more starts, ending with 16 starts from 23 games, another big bit part.

Season 22/23 - Scott has started 5/5 games from the 7 Leicester have played.

It was the dismissal as a "bit part" player I objected to, it's indicative of the unrelenting negativity I see online - there is a thread on this board dedicated to one of the most creative players in world rugby and how he is a flake, Sione Tuipulotu had a good series, but he is called out for dropping a pass that would have put us into a good position against Australia, Ollie Smith scores a lovely try beating two defenders in the process but he is warned that he is lucky he didn't butcher an overlap, I'm not going to go in to all the Kinghorn stuff again, but there's tons of examples, and every week.

I just find it all tiresome, I am aware that this is what people do online and that is what it is. I just wonder, where is the fun? Is the fun really in berating players like we see in match threads, rather than enjoying some of the brilliance on display?

I'm not saying that mistakes shouldn't be mentioned, but I just see and lot of focus on them rather than on the positive side - Nel makes it to 50 caps at the age of 36 and a half, Darcy Graham's finishing is nothing short of world class right now, Walker breaking through to become a genuine back up option to Fagerson, just the first three things that come to mind on just Scotland over the AIs.

Whatever, like I say I'm not going to try and persuade anyone on the more optimistic view, not for a while, I'm tired of it.

It's not at all negative to be realistic about Matt Scott's current status with in the Leicester squad and that is he's a depth option. And it's not negative to suggest he isn't in Scotland contention as you agreed. Just like it wasn't negative when you said the Scotland ship sailed for Dean.

The post you objected to I was positive about Dean, Johnson, Hutchinson and negative about Tuipolotu only. I don't think that's unrelenting negativity when it's mostly positive? I haven't actually said anything negative about Scott either. It's impressive to be a depth piece for England's champions. Just like it's impressive that Taylor, Maitland and CHH do for Sarries. That doesn't mean they're the right option for Scotland (I am concerned that CHH isn't of the level required but who knows) or they've had bad careers.

[Tichtheid]

The match report we've all been wating for

Edinburgh v Glasgow 23rd of November 1872

https://edinburghrugby.org/the-clubhous ... mber-1872/

[SaintK]

Rumours that Russell off to Bath next season!!

[Tichtheid]

Rumours that Russell off to Bath next season!!

Aren't Racing signing Barrett and/or Jalibert?

[Big D]

Finn and Redpath combo would work well for Bath.

[Yr Alban]

I look at our group of players and I think it is the strongest that I can recall, but I also look at the likes of Hogg & Russell, generational talents, and fear their time is now and we are may well squander them.

There was a topic came up on the Weedgie board and one game in particular, I looked up our pack - Chunk, Ford, Murray, Hines, Hamilton, White (Capt), Hogg, Taylor

When we had a pack we didn't have the backs of the same calibre. We've had backs for a wee while and our pack looks to be getting a bit better after years of getting beaten up, I'd still like to see more dynamism and street smarts - mainly not getting isolated and turned over.

It may be that Hogg and Russell go by without us making the step up, iirc O'Driscoll and that cohort didn't win as much as they might have, Ireland only really became very good/successful after they'd finished.

Compare the pack now to the pack then and it’s not so much talent that’s the difference as the absence of right nasty bastards now.

O’Driscoll only won two six nations, the second of them at the age of 35.

I was going to make the BOD comparison, though to be fair, Ireland were in a better situation generally when he retired. The ‘generational talent’ sometimes looks better because they are so much better than those around them.

We actually have Andy Murray’s problem now. If he had appeared 10 years earlier, he’d probably have collected a heap of major titles, but he had the misfortune to play alongside three of the greatest players ever to have picked up a racket. Murray was a great player, just not quite at that level. The fact that he did actually collect three majors was a feat in itself. Scotland have the problem that to win a 6N, we have to get past Ireland, who now play consistently at a higher level and have a conveyor belt of talent, and who play a type of game we seem to find impossible to counter (though Australia seemed to manage).

[Biffer]

There was a topic came up on the Weedgie board and one game in particular, I looked up our pack - Chunk, Ford, Murray, Hines, Hamilton, White (Capt), Hogg, Taylor

When we had a pack we didn't have the backs of the same calibre. We've had backs for a wee while and our pack looks to be getting a bit better after years of getting beaten up, I'd still like to see more dynamism and street smarts - mainly not getting isolated and turned over.

It may be that Hogg and Russell go by without us making the step up, iirc O'Driscoll and that cohort didn't win as much as they might have, Ireland only really became very good/successful after they'd finished.

Compare the pack now to the pack then and it’s not so much talent that’s the difference as the absence of right nasty bastards now.

O’Driscoll only won two six nations, the second of them at the age of 35.

I was going to make the BOD comparison, though to be fair, Ireland were in a better situation generally when he retired. The ‘generational talent’ sometimes looks better because they are so much better than those around them.

We actually have Andy Murray’s problem now. If he had appeared 10 years earlier, he’d probably have collected a heap of major titles, but he had the misfortune to play alongside three of the greatest players ever to have picked up a racket. Murray was a great player, just not quite at that level. The fact that he did actually collect three majors was a feat in itself. Scotland have the problem that to win a 6N, we have to get past Ireland, who now play consistently at a higher level and have a conveyor belt of talent, and who play a type of game we seem to find impossible to counter (though Australia seemed to manage).

I dunno, ten years ago we had peak Gatland era Wales and an England side that was playing consistently well (except in that hilarious home World Cup). Now England are a bit pish and Wales might be getting even pisher. But yeah, very strong Ireland and very strong France to get past.

[Slick]

Rumours that Russell off to Bath next season!!

Pretty sure he will stay in France, somewhere. He talked about getting residency and bringing his kid up there, seems to love it

[Yr Alban]

Rumours that Russell off to Bath next season!!

Pretty sure he will stay in France, somewhere. He talked about getting residency and bringing his kid up there, seems to love it

Oh feck, here we go again. Fast forward 20 years, and we have a French or English born Russell Jr being standoffish about who they want to represent.

[robmatic]

Rumours that Russell off to Bath next season!!

Pretty sure he will stay in France, somewhere. He talked about getting residency and bringing his kid up there, seems to love it

Yeah, I saw that as well. One more year until he gets the passport and if that's part of his calculations and he's into the lifestyle etc. it's hard to see him being tempted by a bottom half of the table English club.