The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Tichtheid]

I've never really agreed with the "Demean the jersey" argument, but what it does bring to the fore is the shortcomings of our systems at home

[Slick]

Embra v Munster

Schoey, Harrison, de Bruin, Hodgson, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Crosbie, Mata
Vellacott, Kinghorn, vd Merwe, Dean, Bennett, Graham, Goosen
Cruse, Venter, Nel, Sykes, Haining, Shiel, vd Walt, Lang


Munster: Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Antoine Frisch, Rory Scannell, Simon Zebo; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.
Diarmuid Barron, Josh Wycherley, Roman Salanoa, Jack O’Donoghue, Alex Kendellen, Paddy Patterson, Jack Crowley, Patrick Campbell.

This feels like one of the games Edinburgh need to win if they are to convince they are moving forward

[robmatic]

Embra v Munster

Schoey, Harrison, de Bruin, Hodgson, Gilchrist, Ritchie, Crosbie, Mata
Vellacott, Kinghorn, vd Merwe, Dean, Bennett, Graham, Goosen
Cruse, Venter, Nel, Sykes, Haining, Shiel, vd Walt, Lang


Munster: Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Antoine Frisch, Rory Scannell, Simon Zebo; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.
Diarmuid Barron, Josh Wycherley, Roman Salanoa, Jack O’Donoghue, Alex Kendellen, Paddy Patterson, Jack Crowley, Patrick Campbell.

This feels like one of the games Edinburgh need to win if they are to convince they are moving forward

Yes, we know that they can put away the weaker teams but grinding them out consistently against the likes of Munster is the next step. And without really wanting to go into the Kinghorn debate again, it's getting these types of games under his belt that will stand him in good stead before he's next called on for Scotland.

[Tichtheid]

Some nice stuff being said about Doddie.

I've got my snood on for this - that's not a euphemism, btw.

[Jock42]

Some nice stuff being said about Doddie.

I've got my snood on for this - that's not a euphemism, btw.

I've not but the dug has the collar on.


Good start.

[Slick]

Must admit I didn’t really get Tichtheids campaign for Chris Dean. Decent enough player, but not much more than that.

However, this season has changed that view, everything he does is so classy, almost old school in the way he passes and cuts line, I’m absolutely loving watching him.

Dean for Scotland

[Jock42]

They deserved more from that no look pass

[Tichtheid]

Munster are only in this because of our mistakes, it's not really pressure

[Tichtheid]

That was nice

[Slick]

That was nice

Has me rugby salivating, lovely try

[robmatic]

I have been watching Kinghorn for God knows how many years now and I am still surprised by how quick he is. Great finish by Ritchie as well.

[Tichtheid]

You just don't win without the set piece.

I like Harrison, but maybe McBurney should come on for the second half

[Jock42]

Kinghorn and Dean have been linking very well. Those no look passeson the loop have been fantastic. I mean obviously he's no Tuipulotu so he'll not get a chance

[Tichtheid]

I have been watching Kinghorn for God knows how many years now and I am still surprised by how quick he is. Great finish by Ritchie as well.

Toonie said Kinghorn was the quickest player in the Scotland squad

[robmatic]

You just don't win without the set piece.

I like Harrison, but maybe McBurney should come on for the second half

The lad is only 20, he does still need time to work on the throwing. McBurney is injured, Tom Cruse is on the bench.

[Tichtheid]

You just don't win without the set piece.

I like Harrison, but maybe McBurney should come on for the second half

The lad is only 20, he does still need time to work on the throwing. McBurney is injured, Tom Cruse is on the bench.

Right enough.

Maverick to the rescue, then.

[robmatic]

Should probably have Jaco on kicking duties second half now that he's on the pitch.

[Jock42]

Hasn't realised viaplay were doing the challenge cup. That's good to know.

[Tichtheid]

Munster are not so much closing the gap as taking Edinburgh's slots at the line out, that is causing the squint put in

[Tichtheid]

We've really put the donkey masks on this half

[Tichtheid]

We're not beating Saracens, or anyone else for that matter, playing like this

[fishfoodie]

You just don't win without the set piece.

I like Harrison, but maybe McBurney should come on for the second half

The lad is only 20, he does still need time to work on the throwing. McBurney is injured, Tom Cruse is on the bench.

Will they play the, Mission Impossible music when he comes on ?

[Slick]

On the up side, I’ve quite enjoyed Weir as a commentator

[Tichtheid]

Time for me to be negative.


That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well. Typical of all Scottish sides since the game went pro. Glasgow won a league title when Leinster went to shite for a couple of seasons, but got fucking nowhere in Europe. Edinburgh have been a soft touch for as long as I've been able to follow them on tv. The Bradley years were pretty, but we got hammered by sides with anything approaching a ruffly tufty pack. The Soloman years were relentless pish. Cockerill started off ok and made us a wee bit tough, but not tough enough to beat Munster in the play offs. Blair started off okay but we've reverted to the mean.

Contrast this with the Munster performance against Glasgow when they lost one of their own, they played with 14 men and no one was beating them that day.

Until we can get back some of the Calder and White mental toughness we are going fucking no where.

There are times when it's fine to be calm and collected, and there are times when it's all about blood and snotters, fighting for every fucking millimetre, simply refusing to stay down, even when you are bleeding and batterd, you get up and go again.
We look like we'd rather go for a skinny latté.

[Yr Alban]

Just saw a Twitter update saying that Zander has gone off after 15 mins. Does anyone else get a sudden chill at the mere possibility of injuries to important players?

Edit: the match feed says ‘forced to leave the field’ rather than ‘stretchered off’ which I’m viewing as a positive

[Yr Alban]

Just saw a clip of the Glasgow try. How on Earth did the officials let the game go ahead without declaring a kit clash? There’s about 2 shades of difference between the shirts!

[Biffer]

Just saw a clip of the Glasgow try. How on Earth did the officials let the game go ahead without declaring a kit clash? There’s about 2 shades of difference between the shirts!

Ridiculous isn’t it, but it’s not as bad as the South Africa Ireland shirt clash a few weeks back.

[charltom]

Just when I thought they might be beatable by Scotland in the 6N:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ac-sacked/

[Big D]

Just when I thought they might be beatable by Scotland in the 6N:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ac-sacked/

Has Townsend ever coached a side that's beaten a Gatland coached International side?

Fair play to Wales for being decisive.

[I like neeps]

Just when I thought they might be beatable by Scotland in the 6N:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ac-sacked/

Has Townsend ever coached a side that's beaten a Gatland coached International side?

Fair play to Wales for being decisive.

Not just Townsend. I don't think Gatland has lost to Scotland. When Cotter beat Wales it was vs Howley pre 2017 lions.

Also Wales have been incredibly beatable. The issue the last two games was after a great win Vs England Scotland just didn't show up. A classic problem with Townsend: one good game, one bad game.

[Yr Alban]

Just when I thought they might be beatable by Scotland in the 6N:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ac-sacked/

Has Townsend ever coached a side that's beaten a Gatland coached International side?

Fair play to Wales for being decisive.

Yeah, we’re fucked again. I was praying this wouldn’t happen, but there you go.

Wales can change coach a year out from the RWC. Maybe England can too. But we can’t.

[Dogbert]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

[Big D]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

While that clearly plays a part, it is far from the only contributory factor.

There is one pretty glaring and obvious example of an international coach elevating players from struggling pro teams to something well above average over a period of time at international level.

[Biffer]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

1. He didn’t change this when he was a club coach
2. Wales.

[Slick]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

I think there is some truth in this although it is meant to be the top players going to Toony and the system is meant to be more integrated anyway.

There does seem to be a lack of mental hardness though and I do get the feeling that is coming from the club coaches to an extent (bit early to judge Franco really). I'm getting a bit fed up of Blair telling us about the lessons learnt and the positives to take, it's a bullshit attitude and something you would never see from SA, NZ or now Ireland teams.

You hear a lot about how society has changed, and you need to treat young people coming through differently than used to be the case, and there is of course truth in that. However, rugby hasn't changed to that extent, it's still a game of attrition, power, bullying etc etc and I question how many of the players and coaches realise that. I'm going to sound like an old alikado here, but the celebrating after tries, including the benches, the wingers running 40 meters to join a collective scream after winning a scrum penalty, the play acting, finding time to moan at the ref etc just piss me off. Fucking 100% focus on the game for 80 minutes. I may be wrong here, but you just don't get all that nonsense to the same extend from the really good teams - apart from the Irish moaning of course.

You look at all the good Scottish teams and they all had some really hard bastards who just focussed on winning, nothing else, I don't see much of that anymore and that attitude must be coming from the day in day out coaching at club level and with so many folk around to pamper them.

As an aside, I do wonder if part of that is not having the after game bar culture any longer, where you focussed on the game for 80 minutes then had an hour or so after dissecting the game with your mates before bonding. It must be difficult in a game like rugby to play, get changed, go home and that's it. Again, maybe a prehistoric attitude, but as I said before, I don't think the realities of the game has moved as much as society.

[I like neeps]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

I think there is some truth in this although it is meant to be the top players going to Toony and the system is meant to be more integrated anyway.

There does seem to be a lack of mental hardness though and I do get the feeling that is coming from the club coaches to an extent (bit early to judge Franco really). I'm getting a bit fed up of Blair telling us about the lessons learnt and the positives to take, it's a bullshit attitude and something you would never see from SA, NZ or now Ireland teams.

You hear a lot about how society has changed, and you need to treat young people coming through differently than used to be the case, and there is of course truth in that. However, rugby hasn't changed to that extent, it's still a game of attrition, power, bullying etc etc and I question how many of the players and coaches realise that. I'm going to sound like an old alikado here, but the celebrating after tries, including the benches, the wingers running 40 meters to join a collective scream after winning a scrum penalty, the play acting, finding time to moan at the ref etc just piss me off. Fucking 100% focus on the game for 80 minutes. I may be wrong here, but you just don't get all that nonsense to the same extend from the really good teams - apart from the Irish moaning of course.

You look at all the good Scottish teams and they all had some really hard bastards who just focussed on winning, nothing else, I don't see much of that anymore and that attitude must be coming from the day in day out coaching at club level and with so many folk around to pamper them.

As an aside, I do wonder if part of that is not having the after game bar culture any longer, where you focussed on the game for 80 minutes then had an hour or so after dissecting the game with your mates before bonding. It must be difficult in a game like rugby to play, get changed, go home and that's it. Again, maybe a prehistoric attitude, but as I said before, I don't think the realities of the game has moved as much as society.

I think that the bar point is very interesting because my mind went straight to Jim Hamilton who loves that stuff and was also a "hard bastard". I think he's indicative of Scotland's problems, our hard bastards just aren't as good as other countries. I actually think Fagersons, Ritchie, Crosbie, Watson, Schoeman, et al would fall into the hard bastard category and if they played for Munster or Ireland (if they got in the Ireland team) we'd all be saying ffs not that prick again.

[Slick]

Just a thought from the weekend games with Glasgow & Edinburgh

Both games (although Edinburgh were particularly awful) were strewn with basic errors, needless penalties and as Tichthead pointed out for the Edinburgh game- “That was fucking awful, but all too familiar. Soft underbelly? Soft top as well”

These players make the spine of the Scotland Team – The same players spend the vast majority of the time with Club coaches, rather than international coaches.

What real chance has Townsend got to change what seems to be acceptable in the club game, do we really expect international coaches for some magic switch to be flicked?

I think there is some truth in this although it is meant to be the top players going to Toony and the system is meant to be more integrated anyway.

There does seem to be a lack of mental hardness though and I do get the feeling that is coming from the club coaches to an extent (bit early to judge Franco really). I'm getting a bit fed up of Blair telling us about the lessons learnt and the positives to take, it's a bullshit attitude and something you would never see from SA, NZ or now Ireland teams.

You hear a lot about how society has changed, and you need to treat young people coming through differently than used to be the case, and there is of course truth in that. However, rugby hasn't changed to that extent, it's still a game of attrition, power, bullying etc etc and I question how many of the players and coaches realise that. I'm going to sound like an old alikado here, but the celebrating after tries, including the benches, the wingers running 40 meters to join a collective scream after winning a scrum penalty, the play acting, finding time to moan at the ref etc just piss me off. Fucking 100% focus on the game for 80 minutes. I may be wrong here, but you just don't get all that nonsense to the same extend from the really good teams - apart from the Irish moaning of course.

You look at all the good Scottish teams and they all had some really hard bastards who just focussed on winning, nothing else, I don't see much of that anymore and that attitude must be coming from the day in day out coaching at club level and with so many folk around to pamper them.

As an aside, I do wonder if part of that is not having the after game bar culture any longer, where you focussed on the game for 80 minutes then had an hour or so after dissecting the game with your mates before bonding. It must be difficult in a game like rugby to play, get changed, go home and that's it. Again, maybe a prehistoric attitude, but as I said before, I don't think the realities of the game has moved as much as society.

I think that the bar point is very interesting because my mind went straight to Jim Hamilton who loves that stuff and was also a "hard bastard". I think he's indicative of Scotland's problems, our hard bastards just aren't as good as other countries. I actually think Fagersons, Ritchie, Crosbie, Watson, Schoeman, et al would fall into the hard bastard category and if they played for Munster or Ireland (if they got in the Ireland team) we'd all be saying ffs not that prick again.

Undoubtably hard men, maybe we need a distinction of nasty bastard. Ritchie has the makings of that

[Biffer]

I think there is some truth in this although it is meant to be the top players going to Toony and the system is meant to be more integrated anyway.

There does seem to be a lack of mental hardness though and I do get the feeling that is coming from the club coaches to an extent (bit early to judge Franco really). I'm getting a bit fed up of Blair telling us about the lessons learnt and the positives to take, it's a bullshit attitude and something you would never see from SA, NZ or now Ireland teams.

You hear a lot about how society has changed, and you need to treat young people coming through differently than used to be the case, and there is of course truth in that. However, rugby hasn't changed to that extent, it's still a game of attrition, power, bullying etc etc and I question how many of the players and coaches realise that. I'm going to sound like an old alikado here, but the celebrating after tries, including the benches, the wingers running 40 meters to join a collective scream after winning a scrum penalty, the play acting, finding time to moan at the ref etc just piss me off. Fucking 100% focus on the game for 80 minutes. I may be wrong here, but you just don't get all that nonsense to the same extend from the really good teams - apart from the Irish moaning of course.

You look at all the good Scottish teams and they all had some really hard bastards who just focussed on winning, nothing else, I don't see much of that anymore and that attitude must be coming from the day in day out coaching at club level and with so many folk around to pamper them.

As an aside, I do wonder if part of that is not having the after game bar culture any longer, where you focussed on the game for 80 minutes then had an hour or so after dissecting the game with your mates before bonding. It must be difficult in a game like rugby to play, get changed, go home and that's it. Again, maybe a prehistoric attitude, but as I said before, I don't think the realities of the game has moved as much as society.

I think that the bar point is very interesting because my mind went straight to Jim Hamilton who loves that stuff and was also a "hard bastard". I think he's indicative of Scotland's problems, our hard bastards just aren't as good as other countries. I actually think Fagersons, Ritchie, Crosbie, Watson, Schoeman, et al would fall into the hard bastard category and if they played for Munster or Ireland (if they got in the Ireland team) we'd all be saying ffs not that prick again.

Undoubtably hard men, maybe we need a distinction of nasty bastard. Ritchie has the makings of that

Yeah, but we don't encourage it enough in the scottish system. Ritchie could be our O'mahony if his nasty bastard side was encouraged a bit.

[I like neeps]

I think that the bar point is very interesting because my mind went straight to Jim Hamilton who loves that stuff and was also a "hard bastard". I think he's indicative of Scotland's problems, our hard bastards just aren't as good as other countries. I actually think Fagersons, Ritchie, Crosbie, Watson, Schoeman, et al would fall into the hard bastard category and if they played for Munster or Ireland (if they got in the Ireland team) we'd all be saying ffs not that prick again.

Undoubtably hard men, maybe we need a distinction of nasty bastard. Ritchie has the makings of that

Yeah, but we don't encourage it enough in the scottish system. Ritchie could be our O'mahony if his nasty bastard side was encouraged a bit.

What should we do to encourage it?

I can't help but feel Ritchie would be our O'Mahoney if he wore green/red and was just very annoying during the same defeat we face everytime with Ireland/Munster? They're bigger, stronger, better than us. I actually don't really we much difference between PoM and Ritchie playing wise except PoM is a tremendous lineout operator.

I think we equate being soft with being not as big or as good as the oppo.

[Jock42]

Graham out until the new year at least.