British Airways.

[Blackmac]

Currently stuck at T5, Heathrow during the standard delay flying with this shitshow of a company. We are lucky that we get to travel a bit but this is the 10th flight with them through T5 over the last couple of months and every flight has been beset with delays, none less than an hour, for all manner of reasons. Unable to cope with the weather, missing pilots, missing air crew, missing ground crew etc. Just about every delay into T5 is compounded by further delays in being unable to get a landing slot or secure a parking spot or ground handling staff, leaving us stranded on planes for hours. Add to that changes in extra legroom seats you have paid for months in advance and ordered meals not getting served on the plane and fucking atrocious customer service. It would appear the only thing BA staff are experts at is apologising.

I laugh when I see people disparaging the likes of Ryanair, EasyJet and Jet2 because they are head and shoulders about this disgrace.

[Guy Smiley]

People are saying the same thing about Qantas, Jetstar and Air New Zealand over on our side of the world.

Clearly, airlines are struggling to achieve anything close to the levels of service and reliability they had pre Covid. According to one account I read last week, anecdotes supposedly sourced from Qantas aircrew suggest that airline is deliberately limiting flight availability, through keeping crews idle on 'standby'... presumably to engineer high demand and justify high prices. That's an emotive argument that appeals to the anti Alan Joyce sentiment rife throughout the customer and staff base although it may have some basis in fact considering the tactics employed under his command over recent years.

A parallel to that suggestion though, is that some customers expect too much. The selfish attitudes so prominent throughout various lockdowns has carried over into unrealistic expectations coupled with overly optimistic promises offered by airlines and not matched by delivery. Lost upgrades are a particularly specific example of that... when you're running on the bare minimum of staff and equipment, promising premium service seems fucking daft when you're more than likely to default on delivery.

[Blackmac]

People are saying the same thing about Qantas, Jetstar and Air New Zealand over on our side of the world.

Clearly, airlines are struggling to achieve anything close to the levels of service and reliability they had pre Covid. According to one account I read last week, anecdotes supposedly sourced from Qantas aircrew suggest that airline is deliberately limiting flight availability, through keeping crews idle on 'standby'... presumably to engineer high demand and justify high prices. That's an emotive argument that appeals to the anti Alan Joyce sentiment rife throughout the customer and staff base although it may have some basis in fact considering the tactics employed under his command over recent years.

A parallel to that suggestion though, is that some customers expect too much. The selfish attitudes so prominent throughout various lockdowns has carried over into unrealistic expectations coupled with overly optimistic promises offered by airlines and not matched by delivery. Lost upgrades are a particularly specific example of that... when you're running on the bare minimum of staff and equipment, promising premium service seems fucking daft when you're more than likely to default on delivery.

Good post mate. Your last sentence sums up the issues with BA. Still touting themselves as a top class airline but in reality not even close. On our way to Marrakech last week we appeared to be on time and my wife remarked that everything was going too well and what would they throw at us this time. At that point they announced that they didn't have a pilot.

[Calculon]

I once had a 12 hour delay with BA. It was the Heathrow to Buenos Aires flight and they did put us up in a shitty hotel but it somewhat fucked up our holiday. Their business class is also nothing special.

[fishfoodie]

I think the budget airlines only make their money when their planes are in the air; so having a plane sitting around waiting for pilots, or whatever, is just unacceptable !, & as a result their systems are setup to avoid stupid delays.

The bigger airlines are focussed on their schedules, & they tolerate sloppiness, & don't react as quickly as the budget guys, & often it's their; "Full Service", features that actually cause the delays.

If RyanAir charges you a fiver to have a crap in the toilet, then they reduce the chances of a flight being delayed because the crap bowser driver is on a go-slow.

[mat the expat]

People are saying the same thing about Qantas, Jetstar and Air New Zealand over on our side of the world.

Clearly, airlines are struggling to achieve anything close to the levels of service and reliability they had pre Covid. According to one account I read last week, anecdotes supposedly sourced from Qantas aircrew suggest that airline is deliberately limiting flight availability, through keeping crews idle on 'standby'... presumably to engineer high demand and justify high prices. That's an emotive argument that appeals to the anti Alan Joyce sentiment rife throughout the customer and staff base although it may have some basis in fact considering the tactics employed under his command over recent years.

Yeah nah, they've had since February to recruit/train up new staff.

Qantas have spectacularly imploded. I only fly them if work is paying

[Sandstorm]

If everyone took 1 or 2 flights a quarter instead of a dozen holidays, BA could probably get you there on time.

First. World. Problem.

[Guy Smiley]

If everyone took 1 or 2 flights a quarter instead of a dozen holidays, BA could probably get you there on time.

First. World. Problem.

Yep


Oh… ER2, the CEO of Qantas, Alan Joyce?

Ex Ryanair. Qantas are nosediving under his guidance.

[Blackmac]

If everyone took 1 or 2 flights a quarter instead of a dozen holidays, BA could probably get you there on time.

First. World. Problem.

So a companies inability to provide a service is caused by people requiring that service. Odd thought to be honest.

I hear what you are saying about excess travel but it in our case we have crammed all our trips into a short space of time so really don't feel overly guilty about putting stress on a multi billion pound organisation.

[robmatic]

If everyone took 1 or 2 flights a quarter instead of a dozen holidays, BA could probably get you there on time.

First. World. Problem.

So a companies inability to provide a service is caused by people requiring that service. Odd thought to be honest.

I hear what you are saying about excess travel but it in our case we have crammed all our trips into a short space of time so really don't feel overly guilty about putting stress on a multi billion pound organisation.

And they sell tickets in advance, which means they should have a pretty good handle on how many flights and passengers they are dealing with every day.

[Biffer]

I travel a fair amount with work (3 times a year to the USA, most other months a trip to Europe). I refuse to fly BA or go through Heathrow from Edinburgh.

I can get a 45 minute connection through Schiphol or Frankfurt. BA won’t sell you less than a two hour connection through Heathrow as they know you won’t catch it.

[vball]

I travel most weeks to Europe and from Inverness, I can use KLM or BA. schipol is dreadful cor connections so Heathrow it is. Never really had any issues going out, apart rom this Tuesday when flights were canceled,

[Torquemada 1420]

They epitomise transport in Britain from rail, through to the bus services: over priced, unreliable, shambolic sh*te.

[tc27]

Got to do quite alot of travel this year with my new job..all in economy where its hard to detect much difference between big carriers in long haul. I swear economy seats have gotten smaller since I last travelled..the new 787s and A350s are nice but cramming in 10 across in a cabin that should really be 9 across is misery.

With the premium cabins I think the mid east airlines have basically turned everyones expectations up so much that BAs formerly acceptable product is now considered poor. I would happily trade the worst seat in club would for any economy seat. Business class now has to be a private suite with aisle access which means its even more unaffordable to most mortals.

Hopping across the US in regional flights miserable though.

[SaintK]

They epitomise transport in Britain from rail, through to the bus services: over priced, unreliable, shambolic sh*te.

Fair call

[fishfoodie]

They epitomise transport in Britain from rail, through to the bus services: over priced, unreliable, shambolic sh*te.

Fair call

and the Tories piss & moan about British workers output & efficiency, without paying any attention to how they've guaranteed that these self same workers are fucked before they've even gotten over the threshold of the business they work in !

[Biffer]

I travel most weeks to Europe and from Inverness, I can use KLM or BA. schipol is dreadful cor connections so Heathrow it is. Never really had any issues going out, apart rom this Tuesday when flights were canceled,

Strange that we've had almost diametrically opposite experiences! I'll caveat mine by saying I've not been through Schipohl many times since the pandemic (and brexit changes) so it may have changed.

[Simian]

I travel most weeks to Europe and from Inverness, I can use KLM or BA. schipol is dreadful cor connections so Heathrow it is. Never really had any issues going out, apart rom this Tuesday when flights were canceled,

Strange that we've had almost diametrically opposite experiences! I'll caveat mine by saying I've not been through Schipohl many times since the pandemic (and brexit changes) so it may have changed.

I fly through Schiphol a few times a month and never have any problems. I find flying in and out of Heathrow a complete nightmare tho.

[Chrysoprase]

I can get a 45 minute connection through Schiphol

That's optimistic, Schiphol is a shitshow and has been all year. It's gone from one of the best airports in Europe to one of the worst. I'm actively avoiding the place at the moment, have even considered flying to Rotterdam from Edinburgh (only two flights a week) or getting the train from Glasgow when I need to get to the Hague. That's despite the train strikes

Not denying that BA and Heathrow are bad though, I haven't used either in years.

[Biffer]

I can get a 45 minute connection through Schiphol

That's optimistic, Schiphol is a shitshow and has been all year. It's gone from one of the best airports in Europe to one of the worst. I'm actively avoiding the place at the moment, have even considered flying to Rotterdam from Edinburgh (only two flights a week) or getting the train from Glasgow when I need to get to the Hague. That's despite the train strikes

Not denying that BA and Heathrow are bad though, I haven't used either in years.

A couple of folk I know have done that rotter dam Edinburgh flight a few times and recommend it.

[Blackmac]

Got to do quite alot of travel this year with my new job..all in economy where its hard to detect much difference between big carriers in long haul. I swear economy seats have gotten smaller since I last travelled..the new 787s and A350s are nice but cramming in 10 across in a cabin that should really be 9 across is misery.

With the premium cabins I think the mid east airlines have basically turned everyones expectations up so much that BAs formerly acceptable product is now considered poor. I would happily trade the worst seat in club would for any economy seat. Business class now has to be a private suite with aisle access which means its even more unaffordable to most mortals.

Hopping across the US in regional flights miserable though.

BA's economy legroom is definitely less than EasyJet and Jet2 and similar to Ryanair. It also feels worse because the budget airlines have invested in lighter weight, thinner seats that seem to help the situation, whereas BA just seem to have crowded their existing seats closer. That's why I was so angry about paying £46 each way for an exit seat and getting bumped into standard seats. Given my height it is incredibly uncomfortable after an hour or more.

Jet2 seem to have come through the pandemic unscathed and are an incredible airline to fly with and I couldn't recommend them more.

[dpedin]

Got to do quite alot of travel this year with my new job..all in economy where its hard to detect much difference between big carriers in long haul. I swear economy seats have gotten smaller since I last travelled..the new 787s and A350s are nice but cramming in 10 across in a cabin that should really be 9 across is misery.

With the premium cabins I think the mid east airlines have basically turned everyones expectations up so much that BAs formerly acceptable product is now considered poor. I would happily trade the worst seat in club would for any economy seat. Business class now has to be a private suite with aisle access which means its even more unaffordable to most mortals.

Hopping across the US in regional flights miserable though.

BA's economy legroom is definitely less than EasyJet and Jet2 and similar to Ryanair. It also feels worse because the budget airlines have invested in lighter weight, thinner seats that seem to help the situation, whereas BA just seem to have crowded their existing seats closer. That's why I was so angry about paying £46 each way for an exit seat and getting bumped into standard seats. Given my height it is incredibly uncomfortable after an hour or more.

Jet2 seem to have come through the pandemic unscathed and are an incredible airline to fly with and I couldn't recommend them more.

Agree with this 100%! I try to avoid BA whenever I can and would always always try to fly Jet2. I have had a couple of trips with Jet2 and I can't praise them enough.

[vball]

I travel most weeks to Europe and from Inverness, I can use KLM or BA. schipol is dreadful cor connections so Heathrow it is. Never really had any issues going out, apart rom this Tuesday when flights were canceled,

Strange that we've had almost diametrically opposite experiences! I'll caveat mine by saying I've not been through Schipohl many times since the pandemic (and brexit changes) so it may have changed.

Oh I agree it was great before. it has nothing to do with COVID or Brexit but a work to rule that has been in place since May 2022. Schipol was my connection route. I have had about 40 flights in last 3 months and probably near 60 this year. I hate travel. Like politicians they are all bad!!

[Slick]

This is timely.

We flew to Oz last week and at 8pm the night before our EDI- LHR flight got cancelled with BA. They changed it to GLA. - LHR and I decided to accept the change on the app so we had a flight and then call them. 2 hours of not being able to get through and eventually got to speak to someone who was just incredibly unhelpful. There was an EDI - LHR flight before and after our cancelled one but they refused to put us on either because we had already accepted the change even thought there was seats available. Eventually lost my shit a bit at the number of times they said “the system won’t let me”, when I know for a fact that making those changes is absolutely something they could do, they just didn’t want to. Anyway, a £150 taxi the next morning wasn’t very welcome.

Our BA LHR - SIN flight sat on the tarmac for 1hr 45 mins because they couldn’t find someone to sign off the paperwork, they we queued for 50 minutes to get the wings de-iced. The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system, just didn’t seem like the type of plane that should be doing that route

On arrival at SIN we were met my a woman with literally a message scrawled on the back of a bit of torn off cardboard box telling us our SIN - PER flight with QF had been cancelled because they didn’t have a crew, so an unplanned overnight in SIN. All this with kids, 6 & 4…

Will do everything I can not to fly BA again. Actually a bit sad to see how far they have declined. Feels a bit of a reflection on the country.

As an aside, Changi airport has become a bit rubbish as well

[Sandstorm]

The whole industry’s employees have woken up to the fact that ferrying ungrateful people around the world in a metal tube is a shite job.

They also realise that the stingy airlines need them desperately to come to work, so they do an average job on principle.

Anyone who expects gold standard service in air travel at the moment is delusional.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

This is timely.

We flew to Oz last week and at 8pm the night before our EDI- LHR flight got cancelled with BA. They changed it to GLA. - LHR and I decided to accept the change on the app so we had a flight and then call them. 2 hours of not being able to get through and eventually got to speak to someone who was just incredibly unhelpful. There was an EDI - LHR flight before and after our cancelled one but they refused to put us on either because we had already accepted the change even thought there was seats available. Eventually lost my shit a bit at the number of times they said “the system won’t let me”, when I know for a fact that making those changes is absolutely something they could do, they just didn’t want to. Anyway, a £150 taxi the next morning wasn’t very welcome.

Our BA LHR - SIN flight sat on the tarmac for 1hr 45 mins because they couldn’t find someone to sign off the paperwork, they we queued for 50 minutes to get the wings de-iced. The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system, just didn’t seem like the type of plane that should be doing that route

On arrival at SIN we were met my a woman with literally a message scrawled on the back of a bit of torn off cardboard box telling us our SIN - PER flight with QF had been cancelled because they didn’t have a crew, so an unplanned overnight in SIN. All this with kids, 6 & 4…

Will do everything I can not to fly BA again. Actually a bit sad to see how far they have declined. Feels a bit of a reflection on the country.

As an aside, Changi airport has become a bit rubbish as well

BA have joined the race to the bottom on quality without joining the race to the bottom on price.

20 years ago I would pay a premium to fly with BA. Now I will pay a premium not to.

p.s. lots of other airlines are shit as well. There's a special place in hell for Vueling.

[Calculon]

The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system,

Seems to be standard for BA planes in my experience

[petej]

The whole industry’s employees have woken up to the fact that ferrying ungrateful people around the world in a metal tube is a shite job.

They also realise that the stingy airlines need them desperately to come to work, so they do an average job on principle.

Anyone who expects gold standard service in air travel at the moment is delusional.

And that the airlines and government don't give a shit about them. Everyone under 45 knows their work contract is shitter than those over 50.

[Blackmac]

The whole industry’s employees have woken up to the fact that ferrying ungrateful people around the world in a metal tube is a shite job.

They also realise that the stingy airlines need them desperately to come to work, so they do an average job on principle.

Anyone who expects gold standard service in air travel at the moment is delusional.

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about people flying. I don't think anyone here is complaining about not getting gold standards, it's more a case of not even getting the basics.

[inactionman]

This is timely.

We flew to Oz last week and at 8pm the night before our EDI- LHR flight got cancelled with BA. They changed it to GLA. - LHR and I decided to accept the change on the app so we had a flight and then call them. 2 hours of not being able to get through and eventually got to speak to someone who was just incredibly unhelpful. There was an EDI - LHR flight before and after our cancelled one but they refused to put us on either because we had already accepted the change even thought there was seats available. Eventually lost my shit a bit at the number of times they said “the system won’t let me”, when I know for a fact that making those changes is absolutely something they could do, they just didn’t want to. Anyway, a £150 taxi the next morning wasn’t very welcome.

Our BA LHR - SIN flight sat on the tarmac for 1hr 45 mins because they couldn’t find someone to sign off the paperwork, they we queued for 50 minutes to get the wings de-iced. The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system, just didn’t seem like the type of plane that should be doing that route

On arrival at SIN we were met my a woman with literally a message scrawled on the back of a bit of torn off cardboard box telling us our SIN - PER flight with QF had been cancelled because they didn’t have a crew, so an unplanned overnight in SIN. All this with kids, 6 & 4…

Will do everything I can not to fly BA again. Actually a bit sad to see how far they have declined. Feels a bit of a reflection on the country.

As an aside, Changi airport has become a bit rubbish as well

Sorry mate, that sounds horrific, especially that distance and with kids. Hoping rest of trip goes better.

(I was going to suggest a pre-Christmas beer before realising you were on other side of world!)

[Slick]

This is timely.

We flew to Oz last week and at 8pm the night before our EDI- LHR flight got cancelled with BA. They changed it to GLA. - LHR and I decided to accept the change on the app so we had a flight and then call them. 2 hours of not being able to get through and eventually got to speak to someone who was just incredibly unhelpful. There was an EDI - LHR flight before and after our cancelled one but they refused to put us on either because we had already accepted the change even thought there was seats available. Eventually lost my shit a bit at the number of times they said “the system won’t let me”, when I know for a fact that making those changes is absolutely something they could do, they just didn’t want to. Anyway, a £150 taxi the next morning wasn’t very welcome.

Our BA LHR - SIN flight sat on the tarmac for 1hr 45 mins because they couldn’t find someone to sign off the paperwork, they we queued for 50 minutes to get the wings de-iced. The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system, just didn’t seem like the type of plane that should be doing that route

On arrival at SIN we were met my a woman with literally a message scrawled on the back of a bit of torn off cardboard box telling us our SIN - PER flight with QF had been cancelled because they didn’t have a crew, so an unplanned overnight in SIN. All this with kids, 6 & 4…

Will do everything I can not to fly BA again. Actually a bit sad to see how far they have declined. Feels a bit of a reflection on the country.

As an aside, Changi airport has become a bit rubbish as well

Sorry mate, that sounds horrific, especially that distance and with kids. Hoping rest of trip goes better.

(I was going to suggest a pre-Christmas beer before realising you were on other side of world!)

The kids were fantastic actually and in the end the break in SIN worked out quite well really. Trip has been great so far apart from the travel!

Definitely get that beer done in the NY!

[Blackmac]

This is timely.

We flew to Oz last week and at 8pm the night before our EDI- LHR flight got cancelled with BA. They changed it to GLA. - LHR and I decided to accept the change on the app so we had a flight and then call them. 2 hours of not being able to get through and eventually got to speak to someone who was just incredibly unhelpful. There was an EDI - LHR flight before and after our cancelled one but they refused to put us on either because we had already accepted the change even thought there was seats available. Eventually lost my shit a bit at the number of times they said “the system won’t let me”, when I know for a fact that making those changes is absolutely something they could do, they just didn’t want to. Anyway, a £150 taxi the next morning wasn’t very welcome.

Our BA LHR - SIN flight sat on the tarmac for 1hr 45 mins because they couldn’t find someone to sign off the paperwork, they we queued for 50 minutes to get the wings de-iced. The actual aircraft was rubbish with an out of date entertainment system, just didn’t seem like the type of plane that should be doing that route

On arrival at SIN we were met my a woman with literally a message scrawled on the back of a bit of torn off cardboard box telling us our SIN - PER flight with QF had been cancelled because they didn’t have a crew, so an unplanned overnight in SIN. All this with kids, 6 & 4…

Will do everything I can not to fly BA again. Actually a bit sad to see how far they have declined. Feels a bit of a reflection on the country.

As an aside, Changi airport has become a bit rubbish as well

Sorry mate, that sounds horrific, especially that distance and with kids. Hoping rest of trip goes better.

(I was going to suggest a pre-Christmas beer before realising you were on other side of world!)

The kids were fantastic actually and in the end the break in SIN worked out quite well really. Trip has been great so far apart from the travel!

Definitely get that beer done in the NY!

Where about in Oz are you visiting.

[Slick]

Sorry mate, that sounds horrific, especially that distance and with kids. Hoping rest of trip goes better.

(I was going to suggest a pre-Christmas beer before realising you were on other side of world!)

The kids were fantastic actually and in the end the break in SIN worked out quite well really. Trip has been great so far apart from the travel!

Definitely get that beer done in the NY!

Where about in Oz are you visiting.

Had 3 nights in Perth and arrived in Sydney yesterday. Going down the coast to Jervis Bay for Christmas on Tuesday, then back up to Sydney for NY.

[Sandstorm]

The whole industry’s employees have woken up to the fact that ferrying ungrateful people around the world in a metal tube is a shite job.

They also realise that the stingy airlines need them desperately to come to work, so they do an average job on principle.

Anyone who expects gold standard service in air travel at the moment is delusional.

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about people flying. I don't think anyone here is complaining about not getting gold standards, it's more a case of not even getting the basics.

Not at all. I fly regularly all around the world. And I love it, despite airports being my least favourite places after a dentist’s chair.

We are getting the basics post- pandemic: a seat to your destination on a plane that doesn’t crash into the sea. Good service, comfort, on time and at a reasonable price is not likely. Just go with the flow and take lots of Peppa Pig downloads for the kids.

[Blackmac]

The whole industry’s employees have woken up to the fact that ferrying ungrateful people around the world in a metal tube is a shite job.

They also realise that the stingy airlines need them desperately to come to work, so they do an average job on principle.

Anyone who expects gold standard service in air travel at the moment is delusional.

You seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about people flying. I don't think anyone here is complaining about not getting gold standards, it's more a case of not even getting the basics.

Not at all. I fly regularly all around the world. And I love it, despite airports being my least favourite places after a dentist’s chair.

We are getting the basics post- pandemic: a seat to your destination on a plane that doesn’t crash into the sea. Good service, comfort, on time and at a reasonable price is not likely. Just go with the flow and take lots of Peppa Pig downloads for the kids.

Yeah I suppose I'm still alive.

[Blackmac]

The kids were fantastic actually and in the end the break in SIN worked out quite well really. Trip has been great so far apart from the travel!

Definitely get that beer done in the NY!

Where about in Oz are you visiting.

Had 3 nights in Perth and arrived in Sydney yesterday. Going down the coast to Jervis Bay for Christmas on Tuesday, then back up to Sydney for NY.

Sounds great mate. Kids will love it. I personally prefer Melbourne to Sydney but it's still a superb visit. Our god daughter lives there and showed us lots of sights we would likely have missed. Have a great time.

[Paddington Bear]

Was flying with BA c.10 times a month pre covid and what strikes me since then is that the staff have just stopped giving a shit.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Was flying with BA c.10 times a month pre covid and what strikes me since then is that the staff have just stopped giving a shit.

BA stopped giving a shit about their staff. That behaviour is the outcome.

A friend worked for BA since graduation. A couple of years ago she was told - here's a new contract with IAG with a 10% paycut and a shitty pension. Take it or get made redundant.

[petej]

Was flying with BA c.10 times a month pre covid and what strikes me since then is that the staff have just stopped giving a shit.

BA stopped giving a shit about their staff. That behaviour is the outcome.

A friend worked for BA since graduation. A couple of years ago she was told - here's a new contract with IAG with a 10% paycut and a shitty pension. Take it or get made redundant.

Weren't they also a shit during the pandemic?

[Torquemada 1420]

BA have joined the race to the bottom on quality without joining the race to the bottom on price.

Yup.

I wondered what the post COVID aviation world would look like. On the one hand, airlines would be desperate to get passengers back and you'd think that would be some mix of price reduction and improvement of service. On the other hand, with all the increased operating costs (Jet A was more than double the price in June that it was in the previous Dec and although it has dropped recently, it is still about 20% higher), mothballing/culling fleets etc, it might have been the end of budget travel (and I'd have welcomed that). The landscape (or airscape) appears to be total confusion with only the premium carriers continuing close to pre-COVID ops.