Law question- Farrell tackle

[Sandstorm]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Spot the difference:

[Grandpa]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

He needs to do some underwear ads...

[Tichtheid]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

This is just my personal view, Wilkinson was just as competitive, possibly more so than today's players. Reading his book I often thought, "sheesh, lighten up, don't be so hard on yourself".

Farrell is a bit like Sexton and Biggar in that they do try to force their will on the referees and that sticks in the craw a bit. It's not jealousy because other Saracens players over the years haven't attracted the opprobrium that Farrell does, Itoje's idiotic antics also attract a lot of heat, but they come with appreciation of his playing ability.

Maybe Sarries getting caught with their hand in the salary cap till adds to the circus too.

[Grandpa]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Spot the difference:

[Grandpa]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

This is just my personal view, Wilkinson was just as competitive, possibly more so than today's players. Reading his book I often thought, "sheesh, lighten up, don't be so hard on yourself".

Farrell is a bit like Sexton and Biggar in that they do try to force their will on the referees and that sticks in the craw a bit. It's not jealousy because other Saracens players over the years haven't attracted the opprobrium that Farrell does, Itoje's idiotic antics also attract a lot of heat, but they come with appreciation of his playing ability.

Maybe Sarries getting caught with their hand in the salary cap till adds to the circus too.

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

[Sandstorm]

Meh; everyone respected Johnson, but not many liked him.

[Paddington Bear]

Well, indeed. And one should be taking a serious look at themselves if they find themselves agreeing with Walrus. Which side of history… and so on.

Not so much about ‘picking sides’ as it is about pointing out that four pages for a missed call in a club game is a massive overreaction.

Is it?

It's early January, the 6N is close and the Heineken Cup is this coming weekend. Having a very important player in both competitions involved in this situation is a big deal.

The fire is of course stoked because there is a perception, real or not, that Farrell should have received many more cards than he has for this same offence.

I think it's not a huge reach for it to be a talking point on a rugby bored.

Yeah it definitely is, we all knew immediately he’d got away with one and roughly the length of ban he can expect. It isn’t like there’s been a massive shitfight about either of these points.

[Tichtheid]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

[Grandpa]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Too flamboyant... needs to be a sportsman who despite their methodical make-up, made up for it through shear willpower.. Farrell, Keane, Djokovic...

[Guy Smiley]

Well, indeed. And one should be taking a serious look at themselves if they find themselves agreeing with Walrus. Which side of history… and so on.

Just a quick rudimentary look at the stats has shown Biffer up. For whatever reason, some people just froth and get triggered by Farrell which just gets others frothing and triggered and then the paranoid feedback loop about him starts up again. Other players do the same or worse and it gets ignored.

They don’t, though. Every time a player is involved in a dodgy play that invites a card there is lengthy debate and shit flinging.

What is a little unusual is the lengths you’re going to to defend Farrell. Mental gymnastics.

Darrell’s downfall is (autocorrect and fuck it I’m leaving it there) that he got away with a few glaring incidents that deserved action… a shoulder charge on the line is the one I clearly remember. Other than that, he’s just another player and the fuss over this latest is no more unusual than the fuss that erupts over anyone else doing something similar.

You could always drop the aggrieved defense and allow that.

[Guy Smiley]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Too flamboyant... needs to be a sportsman who despite their methodical make-up, made up for it through shear willpower.. Farrell, Keane, Djokovic...

McCaw

[Grandpa]

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Too flamboyant... needs to be a sportsman who despite their methodical make-up, made up for it through shear willpower.. Farrell, Keane, Djokovic...

McCaw

Thought about him... but he's too nice and doesn't really polarise does he? He may have been hated for being too good.. but not for his personality?

[Tichtheid]

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Too flamboyant... needs to be a sportsman who despite their methodical make-up, made up for it through shear willpower.. Farrell, Keane, Djokovic...

McCaw

Is there divided opinion on McCaw?

There was talk of Invisibility Cloaks and all but that is part of what made him so good.

[Grandpa]

Patrick Reed... actually no, Nick Faldo...

[SaintK]

Well, indeed. And one should be taking a serious look at themselves if they find themselves agreeing with Walrus. Which side of history… and so on.

Just a quick rudimentary look at the stats has shown Biffer up. For whatever reason, some people just froth and get triggered by Farrell which just gets others frothing and triggered and then the paranoid feedback loop about him starts up again. Other players do the same or worse and it gets ignored.

They don’t, though. Every time a player is involved in a dodgy play that invites a card there is lengthy debate and shit flinging.

What is a little unusual is the lengths you’re going to to defend Farrell. Mental gymnastics.

Darrell’s downfall is (autocorrect and fuck it I’m leaving it there) that he got away with a few glaring incidents that deserved action… a shoulder charge on the line is the one I clearly remember. Other than that, he’s just another player and the fuss over this latest is no more unusual than the fuss that erupts over anyone else doing something similar.

You could always drop the aggrieved defense and allow that.

I'm not the biggest Farrell fan but he appears to get far more shit flung at him for his actions than just about any other English player I can think of.

[Slick]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Ronaldo?

[Biffer]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

You don't seem to point out in this reply that Farrell is a 12?

[Grandpa]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Ronaldo?

Ronaldo is far too skilful to be compared... of current footballers.. Maguire?

[Paddington Bear]

I'm trying to think of another sportsman who polarises opinion... Roy Keane maybe? I used to hate him... but at the same time wish he played for Liverpool...

After ten minutes thought I came up with - McEnroe

Ronaldo?

The entire Australian cricket team in the late 90s/early 2000s. There’s tonnes of examples but few who seem to relish/encourage it less than Faz

[PornDog]

Patrick Reed... actually no, Nick Faldo...

Don't think either of them really divide opinion though - I think pretty much everyone agrees that they're very talented cunts!

[Kawazaki]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

You don't seem to point out in this reply that Farrell is a 12?

And?

[Mahoney]

Well, indeed. And one should be taking a serious look at themselves if they find themselves agreeing with Walrus. Which side of history… and so on.

Not so much about ‘picking sides’ as it is about pointing out that four pages for a missed call in a club game is a massive overreaction.

Length of thread on an internet forum has little to do with the importance of the thing under discussion; it's mostly about with whether or not people agree. When they disagree they keep trying to convince each other and the thread grows.

Which is why 1/6 of the posts on the thread are by you or Toga.

[Grandpa]

Patrick Reed... actually no, Nick Faldo...

Don't think either of them really divide opinion though - I think pretty much everyone agrees that they're very talented cunts!

Their mother's, wives, agents?

OK, you win...

Djokovic then... though he is pretty talented if somewhat methodical..

[westport]

[Sandstorm]

Christ, he's a serial offender after all!

[Grandpa]

I'm beginning to fear for his long term health.. chronic shoulder impacts can't be doing him any good... again you can see him starting to fall to the ground from the trauma...

[PornDog]

It's the tucked arm that really gets me. Everything else can be mitigated to one degree or another so long as it was a legal attempt to tackle. But so often his very first action in preparing to tackle is illegal - you [should] lose all mitigating factors in your favour when you start your process with a deliberately illegal act.

Don't get me started on the American Football style diving at the legs we see so often when people are barrelling against the line. Even forgetting about its legality, it seems like awful technique. Yet you see it pretty much every set within 5 yards of the line

[Biffer]

Don't get me started on the American Football style diving at the legs we see so often when people are barrelling against the line. Even forgetting about its legality, it seems like awful technique. Yet you see it pretty much every set within 5 yards of the line

Yep. Incredibly dangerous. You sometimes see people having a knee on the ground before tackling. Not, so far as I know, legal.

[Torquemada 1420]

1 red card and 2 citings in a 13-year professional career. That's not prolific.

You're reaching because you don't like Farrell. It's pathetic.

Comparing the record of a lock and a fly half is a bit of a push. How about comparing it to another top level 10?

Sexton - never red carded
Russell - one red for a high fend
Biggar - one for a high tackle
Ntmack - no reds
Carter - no cards of any colour
BBarrett - one red

So if you compare him against the same position, he's not looking good in terms of record.

Point of order. Ntamack a top level 10?

Ironically, Ntamack might have been redded by another ref for his hit on Boudehent at the w/e.

[Torquemada 1420]

Except he plays at 12 for the comparison you made.

Probably quite tight which no. shirt Farrell has started in when playing for Eng but hardly the whole picture e.g. how many times has the notional 10 been shuffled outside of Farrell in game time to allow him to play 10?
The reality is where it counts (in Farrell's and Jones' minds), Farrell is a 10.

Be interesting to see how it looks cw with all positions in the backs.

[Kawazaki]

The comments under the tweet are more in my camp. Witch hunt.

[Torquemada 1420]

It is pretty farcical that a decision I think everyone agrees was wrong in a prem game has now stretched to four pages here. Had it been in reverse toga and I probably would have commented on the English thread we’d been hard done by, got told to get a grip and move on. The same applies in reverse. It was a bad tackle and should have been a red but was hardly a deliberate cheap shot, people wouldn’t have even suggested that unless it was Faz.

Errr, maybe because with other players, it isn't. The only debate here is whether with Farrell it's deliberate or mitigated against deliberate by a refusal to learn how to tackle properly. In my opinion, it amounts to the same thing. His refusal to change endangers fellow pros. and shows a contempt for their safety.

[Torquemada 1420]

Quoting Jones period lacks credulity but this:

Head shots must cease. But the victimisation of players, including Farrell, and the hair-trigger pomposity of his haters, is of equal danger to prospects of a quiet life and a safe sport.

[clydecloggie]

I asked ChatGPT what it thinks. Interestingly, the collective wisdom of the Internet seems to think rugby players are often given the benefit of the doubt.

As a machine learning model, I don't have personal opinions or feelings, so I can't provide an opinion on whether or not Owen Farrell should be banned for his high tackle. Decisions on whether or not to issue a ban for a rugby player are typically made by a panel of experts, such as a disciplinary committee or judicial officer.

The rules regarding high tackles in rugby union are designed to protect players from the risk of injury. Tackles above the shoulder are not allowed, and players who commit such tackles can face penalties including a yellow card, red card, or a ban. The specific details of the incident you're referring to and the judgement of the match officials, are the key factors to determine the disciplinary action if any.

It's worth noting that rugby players are often given the benefit of the doubt, and incidents are usually reviewed by a panel of experts to determine the severity of the infraction and the appropriate punishment. So, regardless of whether or not a tackle is high, what determine the severity is the angle, the intent, the force and the outcome of the contact.

[Torquemada 1420]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

Pfffft.

1) Only in England maybe where rugby is a toffs game.
2) Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Did you mean intelligent versus thick as sh*t maybe?
3) Losses (sic): RWC winning team? Or are you talking about Sarries............ whose winning record is tarnished by cheating. So, yeah. Can see why there is anti cheaters sentiment around.
4) Never saw Wilkinson as that sort of player on the field. Farrell is far more animated (maybe it's a contagious illness contracted from Itoje) than Wikinson ever was.

[Torquemada 1420]

Well, indeed. And one should be taking a serious look at themselves if they find themselves agreeing with Walrus. Which side of history… and so on.

Just a quick rudimentary look at the stats has shown Biffer up. For whatever reason, some people just froth and get triggered by Farrell which just gets others frothing and triggered and then the paranoid feedback loop about him starts up again. Other players do the same or worse and it gets ignored.

They don’t, though. Every time a player is involved in a dodgy play that invites a card there is lengthy debate and shit flinging.

What is a little unusual is the lengths you’re going to to defend Farrell. Mental gymnastics.

Darrell’s downfall is (autocorrect and fuck it I’m leaving it there) that he got away with a few glaring incidents that deserved action… a shoulder charge on the line is the one I clearly remember. Other than that, he’s just another player and the fuss over this latest is no more unusual than the fuss that erupts over anyone else doing something similar.

You could always drop the aggrieved defense and allow that.

That was the other one in the SA game?

[Guy Smiley]

No... Australia

[SaintK]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

Pfffft.

1) Only in England maybe where rugby is a toffs game.
2) Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Did you mean intelligent versus thick as sh*t maybe?
3) Losses (sic): RWC winning team? Or are you talking about Sarries............ whose winning record is tarnished by cheating. So, yeah. Can see why there is anti cheaters sentiment around.
4) Never saw Wilkinson as that sort of player on the field. Farrell is far more animated (maybe it's a contagious illness contracted from Itoje) than Wikinson ever was.

You really are a twat at times

[shaggy]

So why is Owen Farrell not seen in the same light as Johnny Wilkinson? If they are so similar... why is one seen as the pantomime villain and the other admired not only by the English, but just about everyone else too?

Probably a combination of things;

Home counties accent > Wigan accent
Doleful philosophical thinker > Hard northern bastard
Played for a team that losses a lot > Team that always beats you
Wears heart of sleeve > Doesn't have a heart

Pfffft.

1) Only in England maybe where rugby is a toffs game.
2) Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? Did you mean intelligent versus thick as sh*t maybe?
3) Losses (sic): RWC winning team? Or are you talking about Sarries............ whose winning record is tarnished by cheating. So, yeah. Can see why there is anti cheaters sentiment around.
4) Never saw Wilkinson as that sort of player on the field. Farrell is far more animated (maybe it's a contagious illness contracted from Itoje) than Wikinson ever was.

Don’t have to be posh/toff to get onboard the North/South pantomime hate.

[Torquemada 1420]

No... Australia

Ahhh. My bad memory. That was the one which I thought was also in the SA game. Cheers.