Eddie: "Rugby needs its version of Twenty20 cricket"

[Niegs]

Oftentimes, I'm unsure if he's yet again being windup merchant or talking complete bollocks?

Yes, yes, the article will probably have something more nuanced, but there ARE ALREADY 7s and 10s ... and that forgettable 5-a-side nonsense. If anyone finds any good ideas in the article or has some genuine improvements to suggest, please do share.

[Hugo]

Seems like a pointless comment - Rugby 7s is one of the most successful abbreviated forms of any sport. Its not like it was invented by some twat in a suit either, its been around for 100+ years and is an olympic sport.

[Ellafan]

No idea what is in the article, but 20/20 certainly did revitalise interest, crowds, but not so much in money in the cricket - below international level - in Australia. While the sport has massive participation, and very big broadcast $, the Sheffield Shield and state one-day comps were played in almost empty stadia, only serving as a bridge between graded club and the top flight. 20/20, however get huge crowds and hype. And it's not only the extra $ that generates. The test matches are sell outs, most of the international 50 overs games are sellouts, and that seems to feed off the 20/20 buzz . Speaking from an Australian POV, if Rugby could get some sort of comp going that even half replicated that result, all for it.

And the man who built the KFC Big-Bash 20/20 in Australia... was Hamish McLennan, the new chairman of RA. I think Eddie might just have been giving him a thumbs up.

[JM2K6]

It's difficult to draw a direct comparison between sevens and T20. T20 is still recognisably cricket with a few things to make it easier to score runs. Sevens is vastly different to 15s and while there's a visceral thrill in a bit shot in cricket, simply scoring a try because there's loads of space all the time means it's not quite the same thing.

Add on the fact that T20 still includes all the major aspects of cricket - fielding, athleticism, pace, spin, etc - whereas sevens essentially gets rid of or has laughable facsimiles of scrums, mauls, rucks, and lineouts, and has very few big hits (another crowd pleaser) and I just don't think it's a good fit.

I also personally think most sevens crowds love sevens for the noise and the party and the drinking and the fancy dress and couldn't give a shit about 90% of the matches they watch, but that might be way off base.

[sockwithaticket]

Does he say why he thinks Rugby needs a 20/20 version or what that would look like if it's not 7s?

To my mind the major benefit of 20/20 is that it created a version of cricket that doesn't go on for days. Rugby doesn't have that problem when matches are only 80 minutes (+ a bit here and there).

[Niegs]

What about 10s with something like the bonus zone in League 9s? The catch and drive lineout wouldn't be as popular if you could get significantly more points putting it down in the middle. Wasn't there also a proposal where tries were worth more if scored from further out than a certain distance?

[JM2K6]

Does he say why he thinks Rugby needs a 20/20 version or what that would look like if it's not 7s?

To my mind the major benefit of 20/20 is that it created a version of cricket that doesn't go on for days. Rugby doesn't have that problem when matches are only 80 minutes (+ a bit here and there).

Oh yes that's a good point. Forgot that entirely.

[lilyw]

Does he say why he thinks Rugby needs a 20/20 version or what that would look like if it's not 7s?

To my mind the major benefit of 20/20 is that it created a version of cricket that doesn't go on for days. Rugby doesn't have that problem when matches are only 80 minutes (+ a bit here and there).

One-day cricket says hello. Kerry Packer would like to be remembered to you also.

[JM2K6]

One-day cricket still goes on for much longer than most popular sports. Broadcasters love something that doesn't take all day.

[Niegs]

Sevens devotees (cultists?) on twitter don't like you pooh-poohing their beloved game! I guess I just don't understand the nuances beyond spinning it one way to the speedster and the other way to the big guy. (Not everyone can be Fiji.)

[Hal Jordan]

Jones' transformation into Lord Bald is almost complete.

[bok_viking]

I enjoy 7's Rugby, it is a great day out and have been to the Cape Town Sevens and Hong Kong Sevens a few times as well as in Europe once or twice. Personally I do not think we need yet another version of Rugby. And as someone mentioned 7's is actually getting a lot of traction around the world, even in countries where rugby is basically non existent, specially since it became an Olympic event. So for me they should focus their efforts on expanding and building on 7's I know quite a few people in the USA and also in Europe and Asia that become interested in Rugby due to being exposed to 7's.

Yes 7's have evolved over the years, but the basic rules are still the same as 15's

Even in T20 the rules are being modified to add to the spectacle, rules are such now that bowlers have basically turned into bowling machines to maximize the chances for batters to hit boundaries, etc.

[EnergiseR]

7's is shite. Once the line is broken it's the long trot to the whitewash...and again..and again. To add insult to injury the set pieces look stupid

[Yeeb]

What would a rugby 20:20 entail ? Presume it would be roughly the same rules and but quicker and less time. Which in that case would mean what ?

15 mins halves like in local club floodlight games ?
No subs
Any infringement to result in a penalty, but only foul play / persistent pens results in a penalty where you can kick a goal.
Scrums, Kicks and line out to be taken within 10 seconds
No drop goals
Mauls limited to 10m distance travelled
Rucking allowed !
Cheerleaders with tits out
Box kicking & up and unders banned

[bok_viking]

7's is shite. Once the line is broken it's the long trot to the whitewash...and again..and again. To add insult to injury the set pieces look stupid

Yet when you look at the average scores in 7's that is not the case, the average winning points is 22.87, translating to an average 3.67 tries for the winning team. The defensive lines do not get broken as often as you want to make it out to be. Rugby 7's is a great way to get people in communities involved with rugby that would not otherwise get into it. It is also a much easier way to introduce rugby in countries where rugby is not played. Yeah for the rugby traditionalist it might not be something they like, but for many it is, rugby 7's popularity is growing at a much more rapid rate than 15's around the world.

[EnergiseR]

That's because it is easy to play as in you can be shite and still win. Look at Wales winning the 7's World Cup

[Chrysoprase]

What would a rugby 20:20 entail ? Presume it would be roughly the same rules and but quicker and less time. Which in that case would mean what ?

15 mins halves like in local club floodlight games ?
No subs
Any infringement to result in a penalty, but only foul play / persistent pens results in a penalty where you can kick a goal.
Scrums, Kicks and line out to be taken within 10 seconds
No drop goals
Mauls limited to 10m distance travelled
Rucking allowed !
Cheerleaders with tits out
Box kicking & up and unders banned

All of your rules plus:

Start with 15 a side
Every 30 seconds one player for each team leaves the pitch
Keep doing this until one side scores a try - no other type of score is permitted
Everyone back on the pitch, repeat

Cheerleaders with tits out - I know you said this already but it should be emphasised.

[Yeeb]

What would a rugby 20:20 entail ? Presume it would be roughly the same rules and but quicker and less time. Which in that case would mean what ?

15 mins halves like in local club floodlight games ?
No subs
Any infringement to result in a penalty, but only foul play / persistent pens results in a penalty where you can kick a goal.
Scrums, Kicks and line out to be taken within 10 seconds
No drop goals
Mauls limited to 10m distance travelled
Rucking allowed !
Cheerleaders with tits out
Box kicking & up and unders banned

All of your rules plus:

Start with 15 a side
Every 30 seconds one player for each team leaves the pitch
Keep doing this until one side scores a try - no other type of score is permitted
Everyone back on the pitch, repeat

Cheerleaders with tits out - I know you said this already but it should be emphasised.

You couldn’t enforce the 30’seconds thing - make it like British bulldog, if you are tackled / tackler you are ‘out’ and can only rejoin play once you’ve run back behind your own posts & wait for the next stoppage.

[Slick]

Jones' transformation into Lord Bald is almost complete.

[JM2K6]

7's is shite. Once the line is broken it's the long trot to the whitewash...and again..and again. To add insult to injury the set pieces look stupid

Yet when you look at the average scores in 7's that is not the case, the average winning points is 22.87, translating to an average 3.67 tries for the winning team. The defensive lines do not get broken as often as you want to make it out to be. Rugby 7's is a great way to get people in communities involved with rugby that would not otherwise get into it. It is also a much easier way to introduce rugby in countries where rugby is not played. Yeah for the rugby traditionalist it might not be something they like, but for many it is, rugby 7's popularity is growing at a much more rapid rate than 15's around the world.

It's pretty rare for one team to not score 1-2 tries even in defeat, so you're looking at what, 6 tries in the space of 10 minutes? That does seem like the lines are being broken quite often when you factor in restarts and the occasional knock on and scrums.

How many people play 7s around the world compared to 15s?

[lilyw]

7's is shite. Once the line is broken it's the long trot to the whitewash...and again..and again. To add insult to injury the set pieces look stupid

It's basically basketball with all of the defensive smarts removed.

[Niegs]

7's is shite. Once the line is broken it's the long trot to the whitewash...and again..and again. To add insult to injury the set pieces look stupid

Yet when you look at the average scores in 7's that is not the case, the average winning points is 22.87, translating to an average 3.67 tries for the winning team. The defensive lines do not get broken as often as you want to make it out to be. Rugby 7's is a great way to get people in communities involved with rugby that would not otherwise get into it. It is also a much easier way to introduce rugby in countries where rugby is not played. Yeah for the rugby traditionalist it might not be something they like, but for many it is, rugby 7's popularity is growing at a much more rapid rate than 15's around the world.

It's pretty rare for one team to not score 1-2 tries even in defeat, so you're looking at what, 6 tries in the space of 10 minutes? That does seem like the lines are being broken quite often when you factor in restarts and the occasional knock on and scrums.

How many people play 7s around the world compared to 15s?

That'd be an interesting comparison. On one hand, as the previous poster said, 7s goes into areas where there's never been XVs or its waned and it's easier to grow back. But then you get club XVs sides that pretty much double, triple, those numbers.

We're a bit more traditional in Canada, but the only 'exclusively 7s' teams you'll get here are in a few school boards (more with girls than boys, too) where rugby isn't big or is growing.... and 'clubs' of mates / ringers that get together for tournaments only, not a league. I think there are women's club sides in Europe that only play 7s because of numbers, but the men seem to have full XVs and even reserve sides (when applying for jobs in Sui, Ger, Aus last year, saw a lot of this on club websites).

I have to believe that the 'traditional' XV playing countries' participation numbers will vastly outnumber those who exclusively play 7s. I wonder how many of the latter eventually morph into XVs teams?

I coached in an aforementioned school girls league. I think it misses an opportunity because many of the typical 'tight five' built girls either don't play or quit after they realize how hard it is / how much of a liability they can be. Others start to realize that, even if you play full matches in a three-game festival, you get 42 minutes playing time (worse for bench players!). School XVs is 25-35 min halves, depending, so playing time is much more too.

Not growing that league to at least 10s or more has been a detriment on the growth of girls rugby in that city, imo.

[laurent]

Best abbreviated form is 10's
You can keep a proper front row.

2 years ago the local union organised a short 3 round tournament at the end of the season.

It was quite fun and the teams that took it for 7's ended up with forwards running at them