Sturgeon gooooone
If there was one I doubt it. As someone with no love at all for her.
1. Who cares. She has a right to a private life.
2. She and her husband have enough money for a £100k+ loan to be insignificant to their finances to a point she "forgot" when her husband made it.
3. She will have enough lawyer friends where they'd provide help to keep it up.
4. See point 1.
Yeah, I thought it was about a female partner?
I disagree especially when the trans issue brought her down.
Her speach earlier referrenced her or she being her successsor as well.
Self ID has been a major contributory factor in her demise.
That’s a generous reading of the situation. Although I agree it certainly wasn’t just the trans issue, there was a mountain of other stuffspike wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:06 pmNothing brought her down, she resigned out of the blue.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
It isn't a major factor though. It is one of many factors. In the eyes of her party, the complete failure will be the stagnation of progress on independence issue. Yougov polls from early December and January show an 11% swing back to "no" with a lead of 6%. In that time there has been
There are a number of issues that have contributed to this, as well as plain old fatigue in a role she was groomed for. In no particular order:
Lack of independence progress.
The feeling that she is desperate for independence at all costs during a cost of living crisis.
Failure to meet promises on the dualling of the A9, a notoriously dangerous road. Only 11 miles have been completed. This is probably the most recent issue.
The ferry fiasco.
Her husbands loan to the SNP
Her memory over Salmond being investigated.
Handling of the GR bill, rightly or wrongly.
The named person scheme, rightly or wrongly.
Allegations over missing funds
The teacher strikes
Not really closing the attainment gap in schools.
Even if we don't believe she is resigning purely for personal reasons, no one of the above has been the "major" factor. There is always something that is the straw that breaks the camels back. It doesn't mean it was the heaviest straw.
She has also failed her party now by not bringing through obvious candidates to replace her.
She has been and will continue to be a good communicator, but I am not sure she has been a good politician. It is the former, and the hope of independence, that has continually got her good approval ratings, even now they are still decent.
Yes there were multiple issues, but non which would have threatened her leadership, she could have stayed as long she wanted given the SNP vote (assuming theres no fraud issue).
Yup, fair enough, that’s true.
Although I guess the other point is that all those issues SHOULD have threatened her leadership in any normal party/country
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
I've seen rumours that are hard to believe that the StewartSlick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:54 pmYup, fair enough, that’s true.
Although I guess the other point is that all those issues SHOULD have threatened her leadership in any normal party/country
McDonald emails may be dynamite but I highly doubt that.
Murray seems to think so but it's impossible to work that lad out at the moment, he appears aggrieved at everyone.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:08 pmI've seen rumours that are hard to believe that the Stewart
McDonald emails may be dynamite but I highly doubt that.
I am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:54 pmYup, fair enough, that’s true.
Although I guess the other point is that all those issues SHOULD have threatened her leadership in any normal party/country
It's a bit of a cop out saying that you can set aside looking at the SNP's record because the some other party in a different parliament is shit.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 amI am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
I get the point dpedin is making though i would use standards rather than metrics. Sturgeon has to meet higher standards (as does starmer) than the Tory party equivalents. The frequency and extent of the shit emerging from the Tory party vastly exceeds that of the SNP and that should matter. The whataboutery of the right wing press does allow for lower standards to be applied to the likes of Johnson.
We are continually told an independent Scotland would be a better and more prosperous place. Holding our politicians to a level of less worse than Westminster rather than good doesn't give a lot of confidence and doesn't mean they are governing well.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 amI am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
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Wylie Coyote
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:59 am
You can likely add the deposit scheme to that too. It genuninely feels of late like a reverse midas touch - everything that Nicola/Scot Govt touches turns into an unholy mess.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:29 pmIt isn't a major factor though. It is one of many factors. In the eyes of her party, the complete failure will be the stagnation of progress on independence issue. Yougov polls from early December and January show an 11% swing back to "no" with a lead of 6%. In that time there has been
There are a number of issues that have contributed to this, as well as plain old fatigue in a role she was groomed for. In no particular order:
Lack of independence progress.
The feeling that she is desperate for independence at all costs during a cost of living crisis.
Failure to meet promises on the dualling of the A9, a notoriously dangerous road. Only 11 miles have been completed. This is probably the most recent issue.
The ferry fiasco.
Her husbands loan to the SNP
Her memory over Salmond being investigated.
Handling of the GR bill, rightly or wrongly.
The named person scheme, rightly or wrongly.
Allegations over missing funds
The teacher strikes
Not really closing the attainment gap in schools.
Even if we don't believe she is resigning purely for personal reasons, no one of the above has been the "major" factor. There is always something that is the straw that breaks the camels back. It doesn't mean it was the heaviest straw.
She has also failed her party now by not bringing through obvious candidates to replace her.
She has been and will continue to be a good communicator, but I am not sure she has been a good politician. It is the former, and the hope of independence, that has continually got her good approval ratings, even now they are still decent.
I don't think that was the point being made. I read that as saying the things that are meant to be scandalous for the Scottish government would barely register on the scale of corruption and incompetence shown by the tories.robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:44 amIt's a bit of a cop out saying that you can set aside looking at the SNP's record because the some other party in a different parliament is shit.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 amI am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
... and that was my point! I am not setting aside any of the SNPs or FM's record but trying to put it into perspective and avoid the usual repeating of the Scottish editions of the Daily Heil/Naziexpress blowing up issues out of all proportion because of their obvious dislike of FM/SNP and Independence. For example we constantly hear that the NHS in Scotland is failing and it is true that it is under real pressure and should be performing better but it is the best performing of any of the 4 nations on many metrics ie A&E wait times. We also have more beds, nurses, doctors, GPs, etc per head. Sure it can and should be a lot better but given resources are ultimately fixed by the UK Gov under the Barnett formula the room to manoeuvre for any Scottish Gov is limited.Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:11 amI don't think that was the point being made. I read that as saying the things that are meant to be scandalous for the Scottish government would barely register on the scale of corruption and incompetence shown by the tories.robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:44 amIt's a bit of a cop out saying that you can set aside looking at the SNP's record because the some other party in a different parliament is shit.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 am
I am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
Every Gov will have problems, things will never go right or as planned. However the scale of the issues being presented as problems in Scotland for which the FM should have resigned for, and I agree they are real concerns, pale into insignificance when compared to the crooked malevolence and incompetence displayed by the current Tory Gov.
Procurement of the ferries in Scotland and the subsequent take over has been a mess, no one would suggest otherwise, however compared to the MoD procurement of the £5.5 billion Ajax tank procurement any ferries overspend is almost a rounding error. Yet no-one his suggesting the UK Gov and PM should resign because of this fiasco. The overspend on the ferries is probably much less than has been spent on the ridiculous feasibility studies for the Blonde Bumblecunts Garden Bridge, Thames Estuary Airport, Yacht Britannia and the tunnel/bridge between NI and Scotland! The current PM when Chancellor had to write of £billions of bad debts as a result of his covid response for businesses, fraud was rampant and millions was handed out to dodgy companies who disappeared, yet he got promote to PM on the basis of being 'good with numbers'.
Who knows what may come to light in the future as to why Wee Nic resigned, there may well be serious issues, but the 'issues' which Big D listed as reasons for FM to resign and to which I responded are serious but hardly enough to warrant calling for the FM's head! As I said above if every Gov was held to account for not delivering on planned road improvements we would have a new Gov every week!
The deposit scheme is heading for a catastrophic disaster. It's going to cost the Scottish economy a fortune, is pretty much unworkable for small businesses and the suggestion is there might be a reduction of 40% to 50%Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:27 amYou can likely add the deposit scheme to that too. It genuninely feels of late like a reverse midas touch - everything that Nicola/Scot Govt touches turns into an unholy mess.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:29 pmIt isn't a major factor though. It is one of many factors. In the eyes of her party, the complete failure will be the stagnation of progress on independence issue. Yougov polls from early December and January show an 11% swing back to "no" with a lead of 6%. In that time there has been
There are a number of issues that have contributed to this, as well as plain old fatigue in a role she was groomed for. In no particular order:
Lack of independence progress.
The feeling that she is desperate for independence at all costs during a cost of living crisis.
Failure to meet promises on the dualling of the A9, a notoriously dangerous road. Only 11 miles have been completed. This is probably the most recent issue.
The ferry fiasco.
Her husbands loan to the SNP
Her memory over Salmond being investigated.
Handling of the GR bill, rightly or wrongly.
The named person scheme, rightly or wrongly.
Allegations over missing funds
The teacher strikes
Not really closing the attainment gap in schools.
Even if we don't believe she is resigning purely for personal reasons, no one of the above has been the "major" factor. There is always something that is the straw that breaks the camels back. It doesn't mean it was the heaviest straw.
She has also failed her party now by not bringing through obvious candidates to replace her.
She has been and will continue to be a good communicator, but I am not sure she has been a good politician. It is the former, and the hope of independence, that has continually got her good approval ratings, even now they are still decent.
in the choice of goods on the shelf. It doesn't help that the person in charge, replies "I dunno" to questions about it.
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Line6 HXFX
- Posts: 1148
- Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am
I see alll the Unionist pig dogs and bootlickers are desperate to write her obituary.
It is like they don't know what narrative to go with, was she the reincarnation of Hitler and Pol Pot or Ted Bundy or Ed Gein.
Sheila Foggerty earlier was really letting herself down.
Think this may actually wake Scotland up and make them even more desperate to get independence.
They were too comfy for the campaign for independence go on and on and on.
When fine leaders like her just say enough, and walk away, what they are really doing is putting a clock on it and hopefully waking people up to the urgency of what they believe in.
It is like they don't know what narrative to go with, was she the reincarnation of Hitler and Pol Pot or Ted Bundy or Ed Gein.
Sheila Foggerty earlier was really letting herself down.
Think this may actually wake Scotland up and make them even more desperate to get independence.
They were too comfy for the campaign for independence go on and on and on.
When fine leaders like her just say enough, and walk away, what they are really doing is putting a clock on it and hopefully waking people up to the urgency of what they believe in.
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Wylie Coyote
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:59 am
It really is a mystery why the most recent poll shows independence less popular than it was in 2014.Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 am I see alll the Unionist pig dogs and bootlickers are desperate to write her obituary.
It is like they don't know what narrative to go with, was she the reincarnation of Hitler and Pol Pot or Ted Bundy or Ed Gein.
Sheila Foggerty earlier was really letting herself down.
Think this may actually wake Scotland up and make them even more desperate to get independence.
They were too comfy for the campaign for independence go on and on and on.
When fine leaders like her just say enough, and walk away, what they are really doing is putting a clock on it and hopefully waking people up to the urgency of what they believe in.
Where are people getting this less popular thing from? So far as I can tell it’s from one poll, from an organisation which doesn’t conform to the standards of the British association of polling companies standards, and it’s run by that famously neutral figure Lord Ashcroft. If pro Indy folk continually pointed to one poll with that kind of backing theyd be laughed out of town.Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 amIt really is a mystery why the most recent poll shows independence less popular than it was in 2014.Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 am I see alll the Unionist pig dogs and bootlickers are desperate to write her obituary.
It is like they don't know what narrative to go with, was she the reincarnation of Hitler and Pol Pot or Ted Bundy or Ed Gein.
Sheila Foggerty earlier was really letting herself down.
Think this may actually wake Scotland up and make them even more desperate to get independence.
They were too comfy for the campaign for independence go on and on and on.
When fine leaders like her just say enough, and walk away, what they are really doing is putting a clock on it and hopefully waking people up to the urgency of what they believe in.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
To be fair the most recent three yougov polls showed an 13% swing from 1st (early Dec) to 3rd (mid Feb).Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:24 amWhere are people getting this less popular thing from? So far as I can tell it’s from one poll, from an organisation which doesn’t conform to the standards of the British association of polling companies standards, and it’s run by that famously neutral figure Lord Ashcroft. If pro Indy folk continually pointed to one poll with that kind of backing theyd be laughed out of town.Wylie Coyote wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:19 amIt really is a mystery why the most recent poll shows independence less popular than it was in 2014.Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 am I see alll the Unionist pig dogs and bootlickers are desperate to write her obituary.
It is like they don't know what narrative to go with, was she the reincarnation of Hitler and Pol Pot or Ted Bundy or Ed Gein.
Sheila Foggerty earlier was really letting herself down.
Think this may actually wake Scotland up and make them even more desperate to get independence.
They were too comfy for the campaign for independence go on and on and on.
When fine leaders like her just say enough, and walk away, what they are really doing is putting a clock on it and hopefully waking people up to the urgency of what they believe in.
I don't tend to put much trust in opinion polls anyway.
"Less worse than England " seems to be a common yardstick for them. NHS, Policing etc, abysmal but less worse than England.Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:26 amWe are continually told an independent Scotland would be a better and more prosperous place. Holding our politicians to a level of less worse than Westminster rather than good doesn't give a lot of confidence and doesn't mean they are governing well.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 amI am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
But there are many people who seem to want us to follow the same path as England. So 'better than RUK' is ultimately the yardstick if we gain independence. Because it was the alternative.Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:49 am"Less worse than England " seems to be a common yardstick for them. NHS, Policing etc, abysmal but less worse than England.Big D wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:26 amWe are continually told an independent Scotland would be a better and more prosperous place. Holding our politicians to a level of less worse than Westminster rather than good doesn't give a lot of confidence and doesn't mean they are governing well.dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:07 am
I am not sure that these issues are the sort which should have threatened her leadership, they tend to get blown up in the small world of Scottish politics with many latched onto by the FM detractors looking for ammo. I would have thought issues like taking millions of £s of Russian money into Party Funds and continuing to do so after the start of the Ukranian Invasion, making an ex KGB agents son a Lord of the Realm despite official advice otherwise, deliberately suppressing the Russian Report, getting FNPs for breaking your own laws re Covid lock down, partying hard during lock down before the Queens funeral, spending £37b on a failed TT&T system, £billions lost to fraud on PPE procurement, PPE VIP lane and Troy fraud, having your Party Chairman step down for dodgy tax avoidance/evasion, having a non-dom wife who doesn't pay tax in her country of residence, having your rivers and beaches covered in shit, etc etc are far more serious issues that should have led to immediate sackings/stepping down of a PM or FM. If every FM/PM was to step down due to public sector strikes, procurement problems, road improvement schemes not going ahead as quickly as promised or some new legislation being controversial then we would need a new FM/PM every week! I think we need to get things into proportion and measure all our politicians by the same metrics.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
I don't think that's enough for a lot of people though. Being second worst, if there is a big economic cost, isn't an improvement many would value. Independence at the moment is seen as a huge risk and a dramatic step, so unless we are aiming to be "as good as" some of the better nations, I don't think it's a compelling argument.Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:15 amBut there are many people who seem to want us to follow the same path as England. So 'better than RUK' is ultimately the yardstick if we gain independence. Because it was the alternative.
I also think it's ridiculous to suggest that anyone against independence wants to follow England. That is simply not the case. The biggest problem is that despite having the most incompetent and unpopular UK government in decades, they have completely failed to make the case that they have the right policies and right people to make an independent Scotland any better.
I don’t either, but the initial comparisons will always have a part of that because we’re coming from the same original base. Independence allows us to get to a position where we can compare ourselves to smaller countries like Denmark, Norway, Netherlands etc. but the initial comparisons will be about what’s different to the rest of the uk.Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:58 amI don't think that's enough for a lot of people though. Being second worst, if there is a big economic cost, isn't an improvement many would value. Independence at the moment is seen as a huge risk and a dramatic step, so unless we are aiming to be "as good as" some of the better nations, I don't think it's a compelling argument.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Uncle fester
- Posts: 4192
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:42 pm
She likes scissorsing I guess?