So, coronavirus...

[Enzedder]

Just about - normally tailing off by now.

There was a strong push for flu vaccinations this year (we ran out and had to use some prepared for last years NH season so not as effective.

I think it's the other covid precautions that has had this additional benefit but the Health Ministry did say that their aim was a reduction in flu to help the hospitals cope with covid. Neither really happened which was great

[fishfoodie]

Just about - normally tailing off by now.

There was a strong push for flu vaccinations this year (we ran out and had to use some prepared for last years NH season so not as effective.

I think it's the other covid precautions that has had this additional benefit but the Health Ministry did say that their aim was a reduction in flu to help the hospitals cope with covid. Neither really happened which was great

It's important to get people used to the idea of getting regular vaccinations, & make sure you have locations & staff, setup & trained.

Might be an idea to introduce public flogging for anyone posting anti-vax bullshit too; & possible keelhauling for any parent who doesn't vaccinate their kids

[CM11]

Just about - normally tailing off by now.

There was a strong push for flu vaccinations this year (we ran out and had to use some prepared for last years NH season so not as effective.

I think it's the other covid precautions that has had this additional benefit but the Health Ministry did say that their aim was a reduction in flu to help the hospitals cope with covid. Neither really happened which was great

You'd think a reduction in movement of people would reduce the number of new flu strains too? And the number of seeds must be quite low everywhere for flu.

[Saint]

Just about - normally tailing off by now.

There was a strong push for flu vaccinations this year (we ran out and had to use some prepared for last years NH season so not as effective.

I think it's the other covid precautions that has had this additional benefit but the Health Ministry did say that their aim was a reduction in flu to help the hospitals cope with covid. Neither really happened which was great

You'd think a reduction in movement of people would reduce the number of new flu strains too? And the number of seeds must be quite low everywhere for flu.

This is where influenza viruses are very different to coronaviruses.

Influenza viruses mutate pretty rapidly; so even if the spread is reduced, mutation is inevitible. At the same time, some of last years flu vaccine may be at least partially effective against this years circulation.

Because the virus mutates during the year, it;s possible the the vaccine under development and manufacture may not even be suitable for what we've ended up with.

At the same time, social distancing should have a massive impact on influenza transmission this year; however, the horror scenario is where a person gets infected with both influenza and Covid19. Even if that were to happen separately it's likely the outcome would be poor; if infected together the outcome could be close to 100% lethal. You can easily imagine what might happen in a care home for instance.

So it;s critical to get a large proportion of the population inoculated against influenza so as to minimise the possibility of mass influenza transmission during a possible "second wave" - you can easily see situations where asymptomatic Covid19 in a young and fit 20 year old could become extremely symptomatic.

[CM11]

Thanks for that Saint.

As I understand it we base our vaccine based on what happens in the SH and vice versa. With no massive movement between the two hemispheres, how do we get the vaccine right? Is it a trickier prospect this year?

[Saint]

It;s trickier than that anyway.

The bulk of production for this years vaccine started around January this year - it's the only way for the influenza vaccine to be manufactured at scale currently (again, very different processes and methods to what's being proposed for Coronavirus). So they start off with some best guesses based on how last year's NH season finished and start working from their. as the year progresses they monitor both what's going on in the SH, and also what little activity there is in the NH; they start trimming the field based on theose observations, and also on which strains they can actually produce a vaccine for (some strains are easier than others to produce, especially if you have to allow for mutations as well)

Ultimately they then settle on 3-4 strains from types A and B of influenza. A is the primary cause of flu epidemics and is the most difficult to predict, while B is also dangerous but generally less contagious. C is considered non-lethal (back into common cold territory), and D currently is cattle-only.

So for the 20/21 season the WHO have recommended the following:

A/Hawaii/70/2019 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus
A/Hong Kong/45/2019 (H3N2)-like virus
B/Washington/02/2019 (B/Victoria lineage)-like virus
B/Phuket/3073/2013-like (Yamagata lineage) virus

So that;s what we're getting - how correct or otherwise it is is anyone's guess, as it really is little more than educated guesswork to reach this stage.

For reference, the 5 global flu monitoring stations are as follows:

Atlanta, Georgia, USA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC);
London, United Kingdom (The Francis Crick Institute);
Melbourne, Australia (Victoria Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory);
Tokyo, Japan (National Institute for Infectious Diseases); and
Beijing, China (National Institute for Viral Disease Control and Prevention).

[CM11]

Thanks again, Saint. Very informative.

[Sandstorm]

Big increase in numbers of UK 20-29 year olds with Covid over the last 3 weeks. Idiots.

[Northern Lights]

Big increase in numbers of UK 20-29 year olds with Covid over the last 3 weeks. Idiots.

[yermum]

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-st ... -1-6826041

School that Boris Johnson visited to show was ‘safe’ closes due to coronavirus days after visit

Poor Boris he is not having much luck atm...

[Insane_Homer]

[dkm57]

Been keeping a closer eye on events for the last week thinking events are only going to go one way, the expansion of the area under lockdown around Glasgow last night, the exponential rise in cases in England announced this morning, added to the reopening of colleges and Unis looks to me like a clusterfuk in the making, so I made a start restocking with non perishables a wee bit earlier than my usual winter preparations. I believe this winter could be a bit tricky. If we get any amount of snow combined with a 2nd wave supermarket 'JIT' stock control and brexit import confusion could bite us really hard in the @rse.

Just wise to be aware and prudent.

[Sandstorm]

Been keeping a closer eye on events for the last week thinking events are only going to go one way, the expansion of the area under lockdown around Glasgow last night, the exponential rise in cases in England announced this morning, added to the reopening of colleges and Unis looks to me like a clusterfuk in the making, so I made a start restocking with non perishables a wee bit earlier than my usual winter preparations. I believe this winter could be a bit tricky. If we get any amount of snow combined with a 2nd wave supermarket 'JIT' stock control and brexit import confusion could bite us really hard in the @rse.

Just wise to be aware and prudent.

I’m thinking the same, but there is no fudging way I’m buying loads of pasta.

[I like neeps]

Been keeping a closer eye on events for the last week thinking events are only going to go one way, the expansion of the area under lockdown around Glasgow last night, the exponential rise in cases in England announced this morning, added to the reopening of colleges and Unis looks to me like a clusterfuk in the making, so I made a start restocking with non perishables a wee bit earlier than my usual winter preparations. I believe this winter could be a bit tricky. If we get any amount of snow combined with a 2nd wave supermarket 'JIT' stock control and brexit import confusion could bite us really hard in the @rse.

Just wise to be aware and prudent.

I’m thinking the same, but there is no fudging way I’m buying loads of pasta.

Covid and no deal Brexit. A great combination.

Fwiw the increase in cases right now isn't all bad because hospitalisations aren't rising.

[dpedin]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... th-effects

Interesting ....

[Insane_Homer]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... t-12066471

Coronavirus: People unable to get coronavirus tests after labs reach 'critical pinch-point'

People across the country are unable to get coronavirus tests because laboratories have reached a "critical pinch-point" in processing them.

I'm sure someone kept insisting we had ample capacity?

Seems weird since we're doing 175,000 tests daily but have 'capacity' for 369,000

[tabascoboy]

Been keeping a closer eye on events for the last week thinking events are only going to go one way, the expansion of the area under lockdown around Glasgow last night, the exponential rise in cases in England announced this morning, added to the reopening of colleges and Unis looks to me like a clusterfuk in the making, so I made a start restocking with non perishables a wee bit earlier than my usual winter preparations. I believe this winter could be a bit tricky. If we get any amount of snow combined with a 2nd wave supermarket 'JIT' stock control and brexit import confusion could bite us really hard in the @rse.

Just wise to be aware and prudent.

The great toilet roll hoarding of 2020, redux.

[SaintK]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... t-12066471

Coronavirus: People unable to get coronavirus tests after labs reach 'critical pinch-point'

People across the country are unable to get coronavirus tests because laboratories have reached a "critical pinch-point" in processing them.

I'm sure someone kept insisting we had ample capacity?

Seems weird since we're doing 175,000 tests daily but have 'capacity' for 369,000

But we have been repeatedly assured that our testing sytem is "world class"...........honestly!!!

[Openside]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... t-12066471

Coronavirus: People unable to get coronavirus tests after labs reach 'critical pinch-point'

People across the country are unable to get coronavirus tests because laboratories have reached a "critical pinch-point" in processing them.

I'm sure someone kept insisting we had ample capacity?

Seems weird since we're doing 175,000 tests daily but have 'capacity' for 369,000

Farkin hell you moan about everything and anything.

[Insane_Homer]

Farkin hell you moan about everything and anything.

Then mute me. cunt

oh and edit:

[Northern Lights]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... th-effects

Interesting ....

So around 90% of those that experience mild symptoms are fine. Maybe the sky isnt falling in after all.

[dkm57]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... th-effects

Interesting ....

So around 90% of those that experience mild symptoms are fine. Maybe the sky isnt falling in after all.

Well DUH so 10% of those with mild symptoms aren't fine?

The pasta is very much for erindors and emergencies. I'm maybe a bit cautious but I clearly remember what it was like being under 'house arrest' for months during the F&M epidemic (we still lost some of our animals) that kind of things leaves scars and being snowed in is just part of living in the sticks.

[Northern Lights]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... th-effects

Interesting ....

So around 90% of those that experience mild symptoms are fine. Maybe the sky isnt falling in after all.

Well DUH so 10% of those with mild symptoms aren't fine?

The pasta is very much for erindors and emergencies. I'm maybe a bit cautious but I clearly remember what it was like being under 'house arrest' for months during the F&M epidemic (we still lost some of our animals) that kind of things leaves scars and being snowed in is just part of living in the sticks.

Ya think.

This was mostly measured for the remaining 10 percenters after 4 weeks, which like a lot other shit, it isnt cleared up after 4 weeks whether that is broken bones, the flu etc etc. The vast majority of infections give mild to no symptoms.

Hospital admissions still very low, could spike but I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

[Sandstorm]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... t-12066471

Coronavirus: People unable to get coronavirus tests after labs reach 'critical pinch-point'

People across the country are unable to get coronavirus tests because laboratories have reached a "critical pinch-point" in processing them.

I'm sure someone kept insisting we had ample capacity?

Seems weird since we're doing 175,000 tests daily but have 'capacity' for 369,000

But we have been repeatedly assured that our testing sytem is "world class"...........honestly!!!

It’s nothing new. The NHS has always struggled with pathology - cancer tests take a week, radiology has been outsourced for years. Adding in a brand new test that thousands are taking every day and demanding the answers in 24 hours.....nope.

[dkm57]

Like the individual freedom of choice folk have been given is working so well right. Only takes one irresponsible dip-shit to kick the whole thing off again, the authorities a playing wack-a-mole

[JM2K6]

I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

[Northern Lights]

Like the individual freedom of choice folk have been given is working so well right. Only takes one irresponsible dip-shit to kick the whole thing off again, the authorities a playing wack-a-mole

So you want to live in a police state with idiotic shite like that. Have a word, seriously it is not one person.

Young folk are the ones being asked to sacrifice the most yet carry the smallest amount of risk to this, your proposed solution will not work in the long run you are talking about mass civil disobedience if you try and impose further lengthy draconian lockdowns.

[Northern Lights]

I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

No the Governments are terrible at this, I still maintain the Swedes are the only ones that have implemented a pragmatic response to this. The rest appear to have totally lost it over this.

[JM2K6]

It'S nOt JuSt OnE pErSoN

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 15886.html

https://theconversation.com/a-few-super ... ses-139950

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... 9-spread1/

[JM2K6]

I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

No the Governments are terrible at this, I still maintain the Swedes are the only ones that have implemented a pragmatic response to this. The rest appear to have totally lost it over this.

No, Sweden totally shit the bed. How can you not see this? They even admitted they fucked it up.

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54072479

Coronavirus: Government apologises over tests shortage

A director of the government's test and trace programme in England has issued a "heartfelt" apology for problems with the coronavirus testing system.

In a tweet, Sarah-Jane Marsh explained it was the laboratories, not the testing sites themselves, that were the "critical pinch-point".

This comes as scientists have sounded the alarm about rising coronavirus cases.

A new Lighthouse lab is due to open in Loughborough in about a fortnight.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said there had been a "a problem with a couple of contracts" which would take a matter of weeks to be "sorted in the short term".

But he said he had "already put in certain solutions" to make sure people didn't have to travel more than 75 miles for a test.

[Northern Lights]

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

No the Governments are terrible at this, I still maintain the Swedes are the only ones that have implemented a pragmatic response to this. The rest appear to have totally lost it over this.

No, Sweden totally shit the bed. How can you not see this? They even admitted they fucked it up.

No they didnt, they admitted they didnt handle the old people right by not shielding sufficiently, keep on peddling though I'm sure this wont get tedious as fuck

[JM2K6]

So their strategy was the right one except for the fact that it allowed all those people to die, okay good one.

Look: Sweden is a shitshow. They're right up there for deaths per capita, and they've still had a big economic hit, and still had to do some forms of lockdown. There is no way they can be considered a success, particularly when compared to other countries of that size and location. Sweden has an extraordinarily healthy population compared to a lot of western countries and should've been ideally placed to avoid a disaster. They failed, big time.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f6 ... a1f232035a
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden- ... ?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... ticleShare
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

They gambled on herd immunity and lost.

[Bimbowomxn]

So their strategy was the right one except for the fact that it allowed all those people to die, okay good one.

Look: Sweden is a shitshow. They're right up there for deaths per capita, and they've still had a big economic hit, and still had to do some forms of lockdown. There is no way they can be considered a success, particularly when compared to other countries of that size and location. Sweden has an extraordinarily healthy population compared to a lot of western countries and should've been ideally placed to avoid a disaster. They failed, big time.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f6 ... a1f232035a
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden- ... ?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... ticleShare
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

They gambled on herd immunity and lost.

It’s way too early to judge either the health or the economic fall out.

[dkm57]

Such behaviours need to become as socially unacceptable as drink driving and smoking in a confined space then things won't ease . It really is down to the majority of people to stand up and be counted.

It's NOT about someone catching Covid through being irresponsible. I really couldn't give a f##k about them.

It very much IS about then giving it to someone else, say a family/household member through no fault of theirs. Those I DO care about.

It's an admittedly old fashioned concept called personal responsibility. Nothing to do with police states or authoritarianism.

[Biffer]

So around 90% of those that experience mild symptoms are fine. Maybe the sky isnt falling in after all.

Well DUH so 10% of those with mild symptoms aren't fine?

The pasta is very much for erindors and emergencies. I'm maybe a bit cautious but I clearly remember what it was like being under 'house arrest' for months during the F&M epidemic (we still lost some of our animals) that kind of things leaves scars and being snowed in is just part of living in the sticks.

Ya think.

This was mostly measured for the remaining 10 percenters after 4 weeks, which like a lot other shit, it isnt cleared up after 4 weeks whether that is broken bones, the flu etc etc. The vast majority of infections give mild to no symptoms.

Hospital admissions still very low, could spike but I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

Your individual risk assessment affects me and everyone else though. An epidemic isn’t about personal freedom it’s about whole society impact, and I’m not going to let your personal interests decide if my mum stays healthy and alive.

If you genuinely think an epidemic should be approached via a lens of individual freedoms, you’re an inconsiderate shithole.

[dkm57]

So their strategy was the right one except for the fact that it allowed all those people to die, okay good one.

Look: Sweden is a shitshow. They're right up there for deaths per capita, and they've still had a big economic hit, and still had to do some forms of lockdown. There is no way they can be considered a success, particularly when compared to other countries of that size and location. Sweden has an extraordinarily healthy population compared to a lot of western countries and should've been ideally placed to avoid a disaster. They failed, big time.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f6 ... a1f232035a
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden- ... ?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... ticleShare
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

They gambled on herd immunity and lost.

It’s way too early to judge either the health or the economic fall out.

Very true, as I see it it's a case of buying time until they can actually develop a vaccine and start distributing it but trying to develop herd immunity would be socially and economically unacceptable. Economically it's anyone's guess, guarantee taxes will rise though.

[Bimbowomxn]

I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

You’re right , it’s their mental health, their normal health screens and even emergencies. That’s before we get to their ability to earn.

[I like neeps]

Sweden's infection rate currently isn't increasing the same way as everywhere else in Europe mind.

Who knows what they're doing over there. I read whilst they didn't have strict lockdown they had pretty significant lockdowns and society really banded together to follow the social distancing.

[JM2K6]

I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

People are fucking terrible at this, and it's not just personal risk at stake.

You’re right , it’s their mental health, their normal health screens and even emergencies. That’s before we get to their ability to earn.

That doesn't make any sense. That would all come under personal risk in some way.