The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Big D]

Problem is there is a still a big difference between the employment status of the players playing in the S6/8 and those who may play for a 3rd pro team, say fringe prem players/English championship.

I was always against a 3rd pro team, mainly because I didn't think the SRU could afford to. Now we are potentially 3 to 4 seasons away from the point where I am not sure if they can afford not to in some shape or form.

It might take some out of the box thinking, say a London based exiles team with the SRU/WRU entering a JV with a Welsh side folding into it but if the English league continues to contract and make it harder for non EQ players then something will need to happen.

A JV with a Welsh side would be a flustercuck especially in the English leagues. I live in the south east and am enough of a Scottish rugby fan to be posting here but I'm not going to a Welsh/Scots composite sides matches. And that's problem 1, money put in by the unions, lack of money from fan revenue, development strategy, team selections etc would be a nightmare that is destined to fail.

A third pro team would massively weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in the short term, in the medium term it might slightly improve the national team maybe but it's not a guaranteed third pro team = success.

There's so many players available for Scotland the obvious strategy now is reduce significantly the NSQs at the existing pro teams. I'd have an Irish rule implemented for the 24/25 season.

Yeah it wasn't a great idea but something different is needed. Edinburgh are down to 5 Non SQ players in their squad which isn't excessive in the least when you consider two are props. Glasgow have far too many but part of Scotlands issues are the SQ talent is condensed into certain positions. A quarter of all NSQ players are props across both teams.

A third pro team wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think we are moving towards it being potentially a better idea than it once was.

[I like neeps]

Problem is there is a still a big difference between the employment status of the players playing in the S6/8 and those who may play for a 3rd pro team, say fringe prem players/English championship.

I was always against a 3rd pro team, mainly because I didn't think the SRU could afford to. Now we are potentially 3 to 4 seasons away from the point where I am not sure if they can afford not to in some shape or form.

It might take some out of the box thinking, say a London based exiles team with the SRU/WRU entering a JV with a Welsh side folding into it but if the English league continues to contract and make it harder for non EQ players then something will need to happen.

A JV with a Welsh side would be a flustercuck especially in the English leagues. I live in the south east and am enough of a Scottish rugby fan to be posting here but I'm not going to a Welsh/Scots composite sides matches. And that's problem 1, money put in by the unions, lack of money from fan revenue, development strategy, team selections etc would be a nightmare that is destined to fail.

A third pro team would massively weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in the short term, in the medium term it might slightly improve the national team maybe but it's not a guaranteed third pro team = success.

There's so many players available for Scotland the obvious strategy now is reduce significantly the NSQs at the existing pro teams. I'd have an Irish rule implemented for the 24/25 season.

Yeah it wasn't a great idea but something different is needed. Edinburgh are down to 5 Non SQ players in their squad which isn't excessive in the least when you consider two are props. Glasgow have far too many but part of Scotlands issues are the SQ talent is condensed into certain positions. A quarter of all NSQ players are props across both teams.

A third pro team wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think we are moving towards it being potentially a better idea than it once was.

Hmm I think it's because the clubs don't want to play young props as they don't think they'll compete with a young Scot there and not a hulking South African with actual professional experience. They aren't in the business of making themselves worse for the greater good and the SRU aren't forcing them too. I'd be interested in why then they'd be happy with giving up most of their depth for a third pro team. There's no third pro team without getting Glasgow and Edinburgh dramatically worse both with lower budgets and worse depth players.

I also don't really think that England is viable to install a Trojan horse third pro team. Firstly, you'd have the problem of the SRU would need to agree to a groundshare in London and be able to attract enough London Scots to go and watch a bad team play rugby - difficult. So the SRU will be bankrolling a club to a 5m salary cap with very little commercial viability to come close to breakeven as an open ended loss making enterprise. Ground sharing also severely restricts a clubs commercial potential. Secondly, you'd need the RFU to ringfence the league as a third pro team is getting relegated/competing with Newcastle at best. Thirdly, the English rugby public don't want a Scottish pro team in their leagues, the sponsors and I doubt BT sport want it either. And the RFU wouldn't want one even to save London Irish you'd think if the SRU did decide to pay off the debts for it. It's a total non starter unless London Scottish want to become a vassal and they don't right now and even then you'd run into the issues of the RFU not wanting it and it not being commercially viable.

So England is out. And then you have the problem that hasn't been resolved in that there's nowhere in Scotland to have a third pro team. Nowhere with the rugby heritage or infrastructure to support it and the SRU won't have enough money to chuck into the black hole it will be.

In an ideal world we need a third pro team but we're in the same situation we've always been in. It's not viable. Unless you have an extremely rich benefactor want to chuck their monies away which is possible but not likely.

[Yr Alban]

A JV with a Welsh side would be a flustercuck especially in the English leagues. I live in the south east and am enough of a Scottish rugby fan to be posting here but I'm not going to a Welsh/Scots composite sides matches. And that's problem 1, money put in by the unions, lack of money from fan revenue, development strategy, team selections etc would be a nightmare that is destined to fail.

A third pro team would massively weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in the short term, in the medium term it might slightly improve the national team maybe but it's not a guaranteed third pro team = success.

There's so many players available for Scotland the obvious strategy now is reduce significantly the NSQs at the existing pro teams. I'd have an Irish rule implemented for the 24/25 season.

Yeah it wasn't a great idea but something different is needed. Edinburgh are down to 5 Non SQ players in their squad which isn't excessive in the least when you consider two are props. Glasgow have far too many but part of Scotlands issues are the SQ talent is condensed into certain positions. A quarter of all NSQ players are props across both teams.

A third pro team wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think we are moving towards it being potentially a better idea than it once was.

Hmm I think it's because the clubs don't want to play young props as they don't think they'll compete with a young Scot there and not a hulking South African with actual professional experience. They aren't in the business of making themselves worse for the greater good and the SRU aren't forcing them too. I'd be interested in why then they'd be happy with giving up most of their depth for a third pro team. There's no third pro team without getting Glasgow and Edinburgh dramatically worse both with lower budgets and worse depth players.

I also don't really think that England is viable to install a Trojan horse third pro team. Firstly, you'd have the problem of the SRU would need to agree to a groundshare in London and be able to attract enough London Scots to go and watch a bad team play rugby - difficult. So the SRU will be bankrolling a club to a 5m salary cap with very little commercial viability to come close to breakeven as an open ended loss making enterprise. Ground sharing also severely restricts a clubs commercial potential. Secondly, you'd need the RFU to ringfence the league as a third pro team is getting relegated/competing with Newcastle at best. Thirdly, the English rugby public don't want a Scottish pro team in their leagues, the sponsors and I doubt BT sport want it either. And the RFU wouldn't want one even to save London Irish you'd think if the SRU did decide to pay off the debts for it. It's a total non starter unless London Scottish want to become a vassal and they don't right now and even then you'd run into the issues of the RFU not wanting it and it not being commercially viable.

So England is out. And then you have the problem that hasn't been resolved in that there's nowhere in Scotland to have a third pro team. Nowhere with the rugby heritage or infrastructure to support it and the SRU won't have enough money to chuck into the black hole it will be.

In an ideal world we need a third pro team but we're in the same situation we've always been in. It's not viable. Unless you have an extremely rich benefactor want to chuck their monies away which is possible but not likely.

I genuinely don’t agree. I think a Caley Reds team playing home games in Aberdeen and Perth would be able to attract supporters. The odd Scotland games held there have been well attended and there is less competition from football.

I also don’t think it would ‘massively’ weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in terms of players. I accept that it would inevitably reduce budgets though.

[Tichtheid]

There is a section of the rugby community in Scotland that think the clubs should be prioritised over the pro teams, I don't know how large a section it is, but the comments in The Offside Line are often by those who hold that view, they are basically against anything that upsets the status quo, including the restructuring of the league to more regional competition.
They have a certain amount of power as they called an extraordinary AGM and got the new league structure overturned and back to more national leagues where Orkney play in the Borders or in the South West and vice versa (I have nothing against Orkney, if they are prepared to travel then more power to their elbow, but the point here is that more clubs traveling the length and breadth of the country is not sustainable in terms of costs and in terms of players giving up whole days and sometime overnights to play a game of rugby).

These clubs will not be happy about the prospect of the available funds being cut even further, their attitude is that they own the SRU and any extras should go to them, certainly not to a third pro team.

Fuck them, though, the entire sport would wither and die without the pro teams and Scotland being competitive. Having said that, unless there is a massive injection of cash from somewhere, a third pro team is a pipe dream at the moment. Even if we had a windfall of around £100M to set up and run a third team for ten years to see if it's viable, we'd need another 40 players able to compete in the URC and we just don't have them.

[I like neeps]

Yeah it wasn't a great idea but something different is needed. Edinburgh are down to 5 Non SQ players in their squad which isn't excessive in the least when you consider two are props. Glasgow have far too many but part of Scotlands issues are the SQ talent is condensed into certain positions. A quarter of all NSQ players are props across both teams.

A third pro team wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think we are moving towards it being potentially a better idea than it once was.

Hmm I think it's because the clubs don't want to play young props as they don't think they'll compete with a young Scot there and not a hulking South African with actual professional experience. They aren't in the business of making themselves worse for the greater good and the SRU aren't forcing them too. I'd be interested in why then they'd be happy with giving up most of their depth for a third pro team. There's no third pro team without getting Glasgow and Edinburgh dramatically worse both with lower budgets and worse depth players.

I also don't really think that England is viable to install a Trojan horse third pro team. Firstly, you'd have the problem of the SRU would need to agree to a groundshare in London and be able to attract enough London Scots to go and watch a bad team play rugby - difficult. So the SRU will be bankrolling a club to a 5m salary cap with very little commercial viability to come close to breakeven as an open ended loss making enterprise. Ground sharing also severely restricts a clubs commercial potential. Secondly, you'd need the RFU to ringfence the league as a third pro team is getting relegated/competing with Newcastle at best. Thirdly, the English rugby public don't want a Scottish pro team in their leagues, the sponsors and I doubt BT sport want it either. And the RFU wouldn't want one even to save London Irish you'd think if the SRU did decide to pay off the debts for it. It's a total non starter unless London Scottish want to become a vassal and they don't right now and even then you'd run into the issues of the RFU not wanting it and it not being commercially viable.

So England is out. And then you have the problem that hasn't been resolved in that there's nowhere in Scotland to have a third pro team. Nowhere with the rugby heritage or infrastructure to support it and the SRU won't have enough money to chuck into the black hole it will be.

In an ideal world we need a third pro team but we're in the same situation we've always been in. It's not viable. Unless you have an extremely rich benefactor want to chuck their monies away which is possible but not likely.

I genuinely don’t agree. I think a Caley Reds team playing home games in Aberdeen and Perth would be able to attract supporters. The odd Scotland games held there have been well attended and there is less competition from football.

I also don’t think it would ‘massively’ weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in terms of players. I accept that it would inevitably reduce budgets though.

Severely cutting the budgets and taking their depth players to start would weaken them significantly. And as said we've seen with Glasgow when the team starts to decline the crowds start to decline.

It's wishful thinking, where are the current rugby mad folks who'd stick through a nomadic, poorly performing team in Perth, Aberdeen and Dundee? They aren't involved in rugby that's for sure as the clubs are so thin on the ground in that part of the world. I really can't see how maybe 4 "home" games per year fosters a sense of loyality either. Don't even know how they could make that commercially even almost a bit interesting re season tickets, corporates who won't have an audience for their product/a fun day out for a jolly.

The proposition is the same as it ever was. Find tens of millions, find a base that doesn't obviously exist and then find 40 players (who will be low quality) and hope it's still going in 10 years without damaging Glasgow and Edinburgh too much. The English league being totally broken isn't an opportunity for us at all.

Any spare money the SRU have should all go into youth development (8-20 year old).

[robmatic]

Even if we had a windfall of around £100M to set up and run a third team for ten years to see if it's viable, we'd need another 40 players able to compete in the URC and we just don't have them.

The way the u20s have been going recently it's hard to see that shortfall of decent pro standard players getting filled organically either.

[KingBlairhorn]

It's weird that we never seem to have had a sugar daddy that I can think of at any time in any sport in Scotland. We have plenty very very wealthy people, but none prepared to actually full on bankroll a loss making sporting enterprise. The closest I can think of are the guy that ran Gretna (but that was chump change in the grand scheme of things) and David Murray at Rangers (who it turns out never spent his own money anyway). Where are the Scottish Nigel Wray or Bruce Craig or whatever? You'd think after all this time at least one would have turned up. Even Ulster had Rory McIlroy personally funding signings (allegedly) when they had the likes of Piatau kicking around.

[Tichtheid]

It's weird that we never seem to have had a sugar daddy that I can think of at any time in any sport in Scotland. We have plenty very very wealthy people, but none prepared to actually full on bankroll a loss making sporting enterprise. The closest I can think of are the guy that ran Gretna (but that was chump change in the grand scheme of things) and David Murray at Rangers (who it turns out never spent his own money anyway). Where are the Scottish Nigel Wray or Bruce Craig or whatever? You'd think after all this time at least one would have turned up. Even Ulster had Rory McIlroy personally funding signings (allegedly) when they had the likes of Piatau kicking around.

I think the SRU got its fingers burned with the Alex and Bob Carruthers attempt at making Edinburgh a private franchise. I'm not sure they'd be quick to give up control again and now you have the situation where they'd welcome private money, but only the money.

Which is fine if a fan wins the Euro lottery jackpot, but otherwise it's difficult to see a private investor willing to just put the money in with no say on how things are run.

IIRC we've had some players' salaries being met privately in more recent years, but not that many.

I can't quite make head nor tail of how they do things in New Zealand, but they seem to have struck a balance between private sponsorship of their Super teams and control of the game there.

[I like neeps]

It's weird that we never seem to have had a sugar daddy that I can think of at any time in any sport in Scotland. We have plenty very very wealthy people, but none prepared to actually full on bankroll a loss making sporting enterprise. The closest I can think of are the guy that ran Gretna (but that was chump change in the grand scheme of things) and David Murray at Rangers (who it turns out never spent his own money anyway). Where are the Scottish Nigel Wray or Bruce Craig or whatever? You'd think after all this time at least one would have turned up. Even Ulster had Rory McIlroy personally funding signings (allegedly) when they had the likes of Piatau kicking around.

Dave Cormack, Aberdeen fan who made hundreds of millions and bought the club back and is a bit of a spoofer but is putting money into the club.

Also as TH says why would you buy a club that you can't use as a hobby because the union controls it? And re a third pro team - where's the joy in burning money to set up a club? Most people buy existing clubs as a status symbol if they're big clubs or as a big brand building exercise (Wrexham, Forest Green Rovers, Ealing) if they're wee clubs.

[inactionman]

It's weird that we never seem to have had a sugar daddy that I can think of at any time in any sport in Scotland. We have plenty very very wealthy people, but none prepared to actually full on bankroll a loss making sporting enterprise. The closest I can think of are the guy that ran Gretna (but that was chump change in the grand scheme of things) and David Murray at Rangers (who it turns out never spent his own money anyway). Where are the Scottish Nigel Wray or Bruce Craig or whatever? You'd think after all this time at least one would have turned up. Even Ulster had Rory McIlroy personally funding signings (allegedly) when they had the likes of Piatau kicking around.

I think the SRU got its fingers burned with the Alex and Bob Carruthers attempt at making Edinburgh a private franchise. I'm not sure they'd be quick to give up control again and now you have the situation where they'd welcome private money, but only the money.

Which is fine if a fan wins the Euro lottery jackpot, but otherwise it's difficult to see a private investor willing to just put the money in with no say on how things are run.

IIRC we've had some players' salaries being met privately in more recent years, but not that many.

I can't quite make head nor tail of how they do things in New Zealand, but they seem to have struck a balance between private sponsorship of their Super teams and control of the game there.

And I'd say that's a very sensible position for the SRU to take.

The point is probably more that a lot of English rugby (and, indeed, football) teams almost needed sugar daddies to make a go of it, give the situations they were/are in. Of course, not true in all cases, but even for most rugby teams there's a benefactor of sorts somewhere. It's not ideal, and not something I'd think many other sports or jurisdictions would want to emulate.

[weegie01]

Anyone fancy a wee walk and raise funds for My Name's Doddie?

Farm shop is excellent.

[charltom]

Yeah it wasn't a great idea but something different is needed. Edinburgh are down to 5 Non SQ players in their squad which isn't excessive in the least when you consider two are props. Glasgow have far too many but part of Scotlands issues are the SQ talent is condensed into certain positions. A quarter of all NSQ players are props across both teams.

A third pro team wouldn't be a quick fix, but I think we are moving towards it being potentially a better idea than it once was.

Hmm I think it's because the clubs don't want to play young props as they don't think they'll compete with a young Scot there and not a hulking South African with actual professional experience. They aren't in the business of making themselves worse for the greater good and the SRU aren't forcing them too. I'd be interested in why then they'd be happy with giving up most of their depth for a third pro team. There's no third pro team without getting Glasgow and Edinburgh dramatically worse both with lower budgets and worse depth players.

I also don't really think that England is viable to install a Trojan horse third pro team. Firstly, you'd have the problem of the SRU would need to agree to a groundshare in London and be able to attract enough London Scots to go and watch a bad team play rugby - difficult. So the SRU will be bankrolling a club to a 5m salary cap with very little commercial viability to come close to breakeven as an open ended loss making enterprise. Ground sharing also severely restricts a clubs commercial potential. Secondly, you'd need the RFU to ringfence the league as a third pro team is getting relegated/competing with Newcastle at best. Thirdly, the English rugby public don't want a Scottish pro team in their leagues, the sponsors and I doubt BT sport want it either. And the RFU wouldn't want one even to save London Irish you'd think if the SRU did decide to pay off the debts for it. It's a total non starter unless London Scottish want to become a vassal and they don't right now and even then you'd run into the issues of the RFU not wanting it and it not being commercially viable.

So England is out. And then you have the problem that hasn't been resolved in that there's nowhere in Scotland to have a third pro team. Nowhere with the rugby heritage or infrastructure to support it and the SRU won't have enough money to chuck into the black hole it will be.

In an ideal world we need a third pro team but we're in the same situation we've always been in. It's not viable. Unless you have an extremely rich benefactor want to chuck their monies away which is possible but not likely.

I genuinely don’t agree. I think a Caley Reds team playing home games in Aberdeen and Perth would be able to attract supporters. The odd Scotland games held there have been well attended and there is less competition from football.

I also don’t think it would ‘massively’ weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in terms of players. I accept that it would inevitably reduce budgets though.

Certainly you could make a good start with these guys:

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... er-4164933

[Yr Alban]

Hmm I think it's because the clubs don't want to play young props as they don't think they'll compete with a young Scot there and not a hulking South African with actual professional experience. They aren't in the business of making themselves worse for the greater good and the SRU aren't forcing them too. I'd be interested in why then they'd be happy with giving up most of their depth for a third pro team. There's no third pro team without getting Glasgow and Edinburgh dramatically worse both with lower budgets and worse depth players.

I also don't really think that England is viable to install a Trojan horse third pro team. Firstly, you'd have the problem of the SRU would need to agree to a groundshare in London and be able to attract enough London Scots to go and watch a bad team play rugby - difficult. So the SRU will be bankrolling a club to a 5m salary cap with very little commercial viability to come close to breakeven as an open ended loss making enterprise. Ground sharing also severely restricts a clubs commercial potential. Secondly, you'd need the RFU to ringfence the league as a third pro team is getting relegated/competing with Newcastle at best. Thirdly, the English rugby public don't want a Scottish pro team in their leagues, the sponsors and I doubt BT sport want it either. And the RFU wouldn't want one even to save London Irish you'd think if the SRU did decide to pay off the debts for it. It's a total non starter unless London Scottish want to become a vassal and they don't right now and even then you'd run into the issues of the RFU not wanting it and it not being commercially viable.

So England is out. And then you have the problem that hasn't been resolved in that there's nowhere in Scotland to have a third pro team. Nowhere with the rugby heritage or infrastructure to support it and the SRU won't have enough money to chuck into the black hole it will be.

In an ideal world we need a third pro team but we're in the same situation we've always been in. It's not viable. Unless you have an extremely rich benefactor want to chuck their monies away which is possible but not likely.

I genuinely don’t agree. I think a Caley Reds team playing home games in Aberdeen and Perth would be able to attract supporters. The odd Scotland games held there have been well attended and there is less competition from football.

I also don’t think it would ‘massively’ weaken Edinburgh and Glasgow in terms of players. I accept that it would inevitably reduce budgets though.

Certainly you could make a good start with these guys:

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-un ... er-4164933

That was sort of what I was thinking.

One thing is for sure though. Two pro teams is not sustainable for ever if we want to remain competitive. Either we find a way or we accept that winning the odd game will be as good as it ever gets for Scotland.

[Tichtheid]

One thing is for sure though. Two pro teams is not sustainable for ever if we want to remain competitive. Either we find a way or we accept that winning the odd game will be as good as it ever gets for Scotland.

I'm not so sure on that, the great All Blacks of Carter and McCaw, probably the best rugby team ever, were heavily based on the Crusaders, Ireland is basically Leinster with a few extras, Toulouse make up a great deal of the French side. England were strong when Sarries dominated Europe.

There will always be the pressure valve of the best players from Scotland going elsewhere, even with clubs tightening their belts there will be the Finns, Hoggies, Wagga's, Grays getting good contracts elsewhere, allowing players to come up behind.

I'd be happy for our two clubs to develop top top quality from within Scotland and massively improve the standard in the Super Six

[dkm57]

Add in some of the talent from the 6, like Shah(sp), Simpson, King, Sheddon and you could at least staff it if the money was there.

[I like neeps]

Add in some of the talent from the 6, like Shah(sp), Simpson, King, Sheddon and you could at least staff it if the money was there.

Why would Glasgow want to give up the most promising young fly half in the country in Simpson? See also Edinburgh with King?

Doesn't scream long term success for the existing pro teams as it's wiped out their stage3.. unless the third pro team is a feeder club where Simpson gets a year or two (and hope he's not ruined by weekly heavy defeats) then goes to Glasgow.

[Jock42]

Add in some of the talent from the 6, like Shah(sp), Simpson, King, Sheddon and you could at least staff it if the money was there.

Why would Glasgow want to give up the most promising young fly half in the country in Simpson? See also Edinburgh with King?

Doesn't scream long term success unless the third pro team is a feeder club.

Thats how Connacht started. I'd be far more inclined to travel to support a shite feeder Caley team than I am to see a shite Embra team.

[I like neeps]

Add in some of the talent from the 6, like Shah(sp), Simpson, King, Sheddon and you could at least staff it if the money was there.

Why would Glasgow want to give up the most promising young fly half in the country in Simpson? See also Edinburgh with King?

Doesn't scream long term success unless the third pro team is a feeder club.

Thats how Connacht started. I'd be far more inclined to travel to support a shite feeder Caley team than I am to see a shite Embra team.

Connacht (which had a fair few decent amateur clubs and some rugby base) got 600 average gate early days, which is likely (I'd expect less) what you'd get in a football stadium in Perth or Aberdeen. So you wonder if the football clubs could be persuaded to have 4 or so rugby matches on their pitch without the SRU paying silly money to operate the stadium on matchdays and the pitch improvements they'd demand. Then it takes fairly skillful administration to match URC fixtures against SPFL fixtures to make sure you can play certain weeks etc. More likely you'd have to develop Rubislaw or maybe Mayfield in Dundee (I think Bridgehaugh would be the one) but that fixes the club in one location. You'd then need to convince the URC/unions/club owners/broadcasting sponsors to completely redesign the league to have a Scottish pro team that's got a much lower budget then Glasgow and Edinburgh in and get humped weekly. So let's assume the SRU somehow find 3m for salaries, c700k for coaches S&C, medical, 200/300k for the commercial side and whatever it costs to use a pro training base (this would actually be quite hard the state of training facilities in Scottish football is generally poor) then the money the football clubs will want for use a pitch. Why would the other league stakeholders want to add another team to an uneven league structure for X period as commercially this will be a fairly substantial loss making exercise for the SRU? I guess there's talk of the Cheetah's returning so could even there but who knows why they'd accept something pretty obviously unsustainable. So other than a good run out for their 2s, it's not really appealing.

I guess the ideal is a Welsh club or two fold and in the desperation of the league with the SRU can somehow (they still cannot) set up a team financially and logistically to take their place but that's a fairly impossible undertaking in the short space of time.

And that's with hoping Scotland continue the relative purple patch so punters continue to pay eye watering ticket costs for BTM (and we know how even fans like us feel about them) to even sustain the level of current spending nevermind increase it.

There's a reason the SRU have given up on the idea of a third team. Binning the Reivers was a big error in hindsight but there's absolutely no chance we're setting up a third.

I think the only way you might be able to do something in the immediate term would be approach the RFU if Irish are booted out and suggest a composite out of contract English and Scottish barbarians to play in the league for a year until Ealing are promoted next year and give them a million or two to play some Scottish players.

[robmatic]

I think there would be more impetus for a Caley team if someone from there had been able to put forward a viable Super 6 proposition. As it stands, literally everyone that would be involved would have to be incentivised to move north from the Central Belt and there wouldn't be much local involvement. I'm not sure that would be sustainable. Connacht is the obvious role model for a development team but they seem pretty plugged into their local community and are able to run their own academy.

[I like neeps]

I think there would be more impetus for a Caley team if someone from there had been able to put forward a viable Super 6 proposition. As it stands, literally everyone that would be involved would have to be incentivised to move north from the Central Belt and there wouldn't be much local involvement. I'm not sure that would be sustainable. Connacht is the obvious role model for a development team but they seem pretty plugged into their local community and are able to run their own academy.

Speaking of the super6: Stirling is the only viable place for a third pro team. You aren't starting from scratch, there's some infrastructure and a rugby community there's a base of fans with no major football team (I appreciate they all support one of the old firm) with local youth rugby (both private and club wise who are usually very good) and pretty decent transport links from Aberdeen, Dundee, and Perth.

I was really hoping they'd be a very good semi pro team and use that as the model but sadly not.

[Yr Alban]

So, in summary, we need a 3rd team to move forward, but we have no way of affording one. Sigh.

There do seem to be quite a few SQ players kicking around who are, or were, highly rated, but didn’t get a look in at either of our teams. Nathan Chamberlain springs to mind. I know he didn’t do that much in his time at Embra, but he didn’t get more than a handful of games to do it in.

[robmatic]

Rhys Tait and Archie Smeaton both sign for Doncaster Knights from the Glasgow academy. Both have looked pretty decent players from what I've seen of them for the U20s and in the Super 6 but I can imagine opportunities being limited for them over the next couple of seasons in the URC, so makes sense for them.

[KingBlairhorn]

Rhys Tait and Archie Smeaton both sign for Doncaster Knights from the Glasgow academy. Both have looked pretty decent players from what I've seen of them for the U20s and in the Super 6 but I can imagine opportunities being limited for them over the next couple of seasons in the URC, so makes sense for them.

Yes, agreed, good option if they play games and ultimately are able to progress to top level clubs. Pro D2 similar you would think in terms of maintaining playing time and aspiring to a higher level, although obviously a bit better weather and a bit more 'fighty'.

[KingBlairhorn]

If London Irish can't be saved what do we think of Declan Kidney for head coach at Edinburgh? Hugely experienced, but maybe marked his copybook a little around the Paddy Jackson signing (I honestly don't know the ins and outs of his involvement). I can't imagine there are too many with his kind of CV floating around at this point in the manager merry-go-round.

[westport]

If London Irish can't be saved what do we think of Declan Kidney for head coach at Edinburgh? Hugely experienced, but maybe marked his copybook a little around the Paddy Jackson signing (I honestly don't know the ins and outs of his involvement). I can't imagine there are too many with his kind of CV floating around at this point in the manager merry-go-round.

IMO Deco would be a great choice as HC and I am sure he would want to bring a couple of the other coaches too, but could they afford them.

[Tichtheid]

Les Kiss is/was the head coach wasn't he?

Deccie was DoR iirc.

[KingBlairhorn]

Les Kiss is/was the head coach wasn't he?

Deccie was DoR iirc.

Yeah you are correct. Get them both in as a team?

[KingBlairhorn]

If London Irish can't be saved what do we think of Declan Kidney for head coach at Edinburgh? Hugely experienced, but maybe marked his copybook a little around the Paddy Jackson signing (I honestly don't know the ins and outs of his involvement). I can't imagine there are too many with his kind of CV floating around at this point in the manager merry-go-round.

IMO Deco would be a great choice as HC and I am sure he would want to bring a couple of the other coaches too, but could they afford them.

Do they have other offers - that's the key question on affordability. Are they really that much more expensive than Cockerill et al. though?

The SRU don't really do coaching packages so that could be problematic (with any appointment).

[westport]

Edinburgh Academy hooker Harri Morris will join English Championship side Doncaster Knights this summer on a season-long loan.

[westport]

Nice article on Hollie

https://www.world.rugby/news/815577/hol ... _nwprx0qei

[Tichtheid]

David Dooher has climbed Ben Nevis with a 100kg barbell on his shoulders to raise money for My Name'5 Doddie..

That guy has some grit about him, it's no an easy walk carrying your lunch in a rucksack.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-65845186

[dpedin]

David Dooher has climbed Ben Nevis with a 100kg barbell on his shoulders to raise money for My Name'5 Doddie..

That guy has some grit about him, it's no an easy walk carrying your lunch in a rucksack.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-65845186

Was a member of team of 8 who carried my mates 10 year old son in his wheelchair up and down Ben Nevis. My rucksack had 2 x Cheese rolls, 2 x Giant Mars Bars, cheese and onion crisps and a bottle of 10 yo Laphroaig. You can tell I'm not a seasoned hill walker!

[robmatic]

David Dooher has climbed Ben Nevis with a 100kg barbell on his shoulders to raise money for My Name'5 Doddie..

That guy has some grit about him, it's no an easy walk carrying your lunch in a rucksack.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-65845186

Was a member of team of 8 who carried my mates 10 year old son in his wheelchair up and down Ben Nevis. My rucksack had 2 x Cheese rolls, 2 x Giant Mars Bars, cheese and onion crisps and a bottle of 10 yo Laphroaig. You can tell I'm not a seasoned hill walker!

I dunno, a dram on top of a Munro has a lot going for it. Hipflask might be a more professional option though, to be fair.

[Biffer]

Mark Palmer saying that Kieran Crowley is not a candidate for the Edinburgh job after his departure from Italy.

Has anyone seen anybody actually being linked with it?

[mos_eisely_]

Mallinder is no longer a Director of SRU LTD but retains oversight of performance

[mos_eisely_]

Mark Palmer saying that Kieran Crowley is not a candidate for the Edinburgh job after his departure from Italy.

Has anyone seen anybody actually being linked with it?

The timing isn't exactly great, imagine a number of candidates could be waiting to see fallout from RWC and see what vacancies appear, maybe.

[Slick]

Mark Palmer saying that Kieran Crowley is not a candidate for the Edinburgh job after his departure from Italy.

Has anyone seen anybody actually being linked with it?

It is getting to the "A bit concerning" stage

[Tichtheid]

It was announced a good few weeks ago that Steve Diamond was going to be taking preseason training, that only started on Monday.

We haven't heard what is happening with Ben White & Kyle Rowe and the new coach. It's all very frustrating when there is no news on these things, but I'm not too concerned yet, the season isn't going to start for another four months.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Diamond in the head coach role for next season, even if it is just for the season. Whether that is a good thing or not, I don't know, it just wouldn't surprise me.

[robmatic]

Mark Palmer saying that Kieran Crowley is not a candidate for the Edinburgh job after his departure from Italy.

Has anyone seen anybody actually being linked with it?

I wonder if this basically confirms there is already somebody lined up? You'd think that otherwise Crowley would be definitely worth enquiring about.

It is getting to the "A bit concerning" stage

This is partly why I think something might be already sorted and they are having to keep it quiet. Edinburgh and Glasgow (when they are hiring coaches externally and not promoting from within the SRU) have almost always attracted a respectable calibre of coaches recently, even if they haven't always been successful. They shouldn't be struggling this time around, when the club is probably a better sporting proposition than ever.

[weegie01]

If I were a coach looking for a new role, regardless of other pros and cons, the fact that the pro clubs in Scotland are owned by the SRU would be a positive.

They may not have the size of budget some others have, although recent indications are that they are competitive on player wages, but they do have a degree of security that is lacking in clubs depending on benefactors. Given recent events in England that could be a factor.