Stop voting for fucking Tories

[GogLais]

And from a government who complain about union members striking. When really people pissing about on the internet or with social media apps is a much bigger hit to productivity, vastly bigger in fact. Yes they'll probably claim it's work related, but I'd hazard a guess whilst related it may all too often bear little resemblance to work

There’s that as well but I was thinking more of the record-keeping aspect of it.There’s a lot to be said for a good old-fashioned file.

I was listening to an interesting discussing between a few political historians who aren't quite clear how future historians will track decision making in the internet age. Memos etc last longer and offer a much clearer trail.

Indeed. I get it that social media/WhatsApp have replaced conversations and telephone calls and that’s fine. I’ve no idea what happens but surely any instructions/requests from minsters are confirmed in writing/email? And if I were the recipient I’d print the email.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Drip, drip, drip.

The Conservative party’s high-profile mayor, Ben Houchen, has again been accused of secrecy after plans for a third transfer of public assets in his north-east England region were leaked to the Financial Times.
Houchen, mayor of the Tees Valley, privately struck a deal with Hartlepool council to take control of the community’s key civic buildings in a process that has not previously been public.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:// ... fbb5bc

The Labour MP, Andy McDonald, who cited Ben Houchen's activities as entailing industrial scale corruption (or some such) has just refused to repeat that claim without parliamentary privilege, looks like McDonald will now more be taking the line his comments have drawn interest that have helped initiate some much needed investigation into just what's been going on. Ben Houchen has been quite happy to simply go public saying Andy McDonald is a liar.

Whether McDonald's words were best phrased or not what's transpired does rather stink from the outside, and I don't see any way Private Eye if nothing else are backing down from continuing to report on something they simply perceive as wrong, the FT are also now on board for looking into this and one would imagine that interest will only grow/widen. I haven't seen the reasons set out by Gove for the inquiry as to how that should work and what will be looked at, it'd hardly be beyond Gove to go for a cover up

[SaintK]

Drip, drip, drip.

The Conservative party’s high-profile mayor, Ben Houchen, has again been accused of secrecy after plans for a third transfer of public assets in his north-east England region were leaked to the Financial Times.
Houchen, mayor of the Tees Valley, privately struck a deal with Hartlepool council to take control of the community’s key civic buildings in a process that has not previously been public.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:// ... fbb5bc

The Labour MP, Andy McDonald, who cited Ben Houchen's activities as entailing industrial scale corruption (or some such) has just refused to repeat that claim without parliamentary privilege, looks like McDonald will now more be taking the line his comments have drawn interest that have helped initiate some much needed investigation into just what's been going on. Ben Houchen has been quite happy to simply go public saying Andy McDonald is a liar.

Whether McDonald's words were best phrased or not what's transpired does rather stink from the outside, and I don't see any way Private Eye if nothing else are backing down from continuing to report on something they simply perceive as wrong, the FT are also now on board for looking into this and one would imagine that interest will only grow/widen. I haven't seen the reasons set out by Gove for the inquiry as to how that should work and what will be looked at, it'd hardly be beyond Gove to go for a cover up

I heard Houchen on The World at One earlier, what a charmless bombastic twat!!! Unless McDonald has a potential smoking gun I would suggest that he leaves it to Private Eye and the FT as they appear to have sources that close to what is happening.
I wouldn't hold your breath about an "independent" enquiry as Gove has opted not to use the National Audit Office and appoint a panel himself.......eventually. Even though at PMQ's last week Sunak said that an enquiry is already well underway.

[SaintK]

All is revealed! Not sure why I havee never come across this before.

[tabascoboy]

BB gets the jump on Rishi

[SaintK]

Hopefully both phones!!

[Hal Jordan]

BB gets the jump on Rishi

Which can mean only one thing. Whatever is in it will completely fuck someone who stands in his way.

[GogLais]

Fairness for Phil - is it really a matter for the Culture Secretary and the CMS Committee? I’m not keen on the Gov’t getting involved in people’s morals and it’s a police matter if anything criminal is alleged.

[fishfoodie]

BB gets the jump on Rishi

Which can mean only one thing. Whatever is in it will completely fuck someone who stands in his way.

The BBs corruption mostly seems to have happened in plain sight, & because he's so practiced in getting bungs, he knows how to do it, mostly, without legal jeopardy; think the flat refurbishing, the book fees without ever delivering a book, JCB etc

On the other hand; he knows each & every one of his cabinet & who knows how many others, gave their friends & donors access to the PPE VIP lane, & boy did they fuck the taxpayer !

He's taking advantage of how much of his despicable character is priced in with the public, the media all love him, & he's taking the chance that in the torrent of shit hitting fans, he'll come out comparatively unscathed.

[Hal Jordan]

I think he's also doing it to reduce the legitimacy of any action taken against him. He may not be able to stop the Inquiry recommending a course of action, but if those who are supposed to carry out the sentence are as much tainted as him, he can hold his hands up and say, "How can they pass judgement? They are in no moral position to do anything misquoted Latin, um, errr, reference to mountebanks, um, err, incredibly large hands for his size!"

I'm afraid that he was very, very drunk.

[tabascoboy]

Well, clearly then they have nothing to hide...

[C69]

Well, clearly then they have nothing to hide...

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

[tabascoboy]

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

BB clearly believes this is the way to rehabilitate himself, and the relationship between him and Sunak turned very sour the longer his Government ran. This could get ugly ( we hope!)

[SaintK]

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

BB clearly believes this is the way to rehabilitate himself, and the relationship between him and Sunak turned very sour the longer his Government ran. This could get ugly ( we hope!)

Utter cunts the lot of them
How many £billions of taxpayers money was spaffed? How many people died unneccessarily?
And they're playing games like this

[fishfoodie]

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

BB clearly believes this is the way to rehabilitate himself, and the relationship between him and Sunak turned very sour the longer his Government ran. This could get ugly ( we hope!)

This is of course not what they'd planned* when they setup the Inquiry, but is in keeping with the incompetence of Tories over the last decade plus. They needed a Lord Hutton, but instead they got themselves someone who actually took the job seriously, & knew the significance of Inquiry to the general public would make them untouchable, so any attempt to hamstring the investigation would be doomed to fail.

There's hopefully a lot of Ministers shitting themselves today.

* if there ever was an actual plan...

[Raggs]

Surely the judicial review is going to demand the messages so that they can determine if they're relevant or not?

[Sandstorm]

Surely the judicial review is going to demand the messages so that they can determine if they're relevant or not?

Its WhatsApp. There’s guaranteed to be at least one of:

“Party at Boris’ tonight!”
“I’m in. #Champers”
“Keep this on the low-down chaps, you know what the idiot voters will say”

[Hal Jordan]

Johnson appears not to have turned over his burner phone.

If Whitty has any.sense, he's kept receipts to avoid the shit being dumped on him.

[salanya]

They keep saying the content is 'unambiguously irrelevant'.

But quite obviously that is not their judgement to make.

What if, when on trial and asked a question, a defendant just states that they won't answer as they believe it to be irrelevant

Shocking state of the government, when even Boris knows it's better to comply.

[tabascoboy]

I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

[fishfoodie]

I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

Special masters seem to be joint efforts, where both sides nominate some acceptable lawyers to review, & screen the material, they agree on enough from this pool of lawyers to do the review, but then all of these lawyers have to go thru the clearance process to make sure they can safely review the worst case classification content in the material.

All of this would just be a burden for a single Judge who has enough work to do, it's better to delegate given the sheer quantity of material that likely would need to be reviewed.

There is going to be irrelevant, & National security information in this, but if the Judge's delegates can review this, un-redacted material & agreed with their Government counterparts on it's irrelevance, then there'll be no problems. The problems are the Government handing over blank sheets of paper, or none at all, & patting the Inquiry on the head & telling them not to worry.

If they want to do that shit they shouldn't have even pretended to have it in the first place.

What absolutely MUST NOT HAPPEN is that the Judge should resign & let the Tories choose a nice compliant poodle.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

Special masters seem to be joint efforts, where both sides nominate some acceptable lawyers to review, & screen the material, they agree on enough from this pool of lawyers to do the review, but then all of these lawyers have to go thru the clearance process to make sure they can safely review the worst case classification content in the material.

All of this would just be a burden for a single Judge who has enough work to do, it's better to delegate given the sheer quantity of material that likely would need to be reviewed.

There is going to be irrelevant, & National security information in this, but if the Judge's delegates can review this, un-redacted material & agreed with their Government counterparts on it's irrelevance, then there'll be no problems. The problems are the Government handing over blank sheets of paper, or none at all, & patting the Inquiry on the head & telling them not to worry.

If they want to do that shit they shouldn't have even pretended to have it in the first place.

What absolutely MUST NOT HAPPEN is that the Judge should resign & let the Tories choose a nice compliant poodle.

There aren't two sides in this, there's the Covid Inquiry appointed by HMG, and HMG. And the Covid Inquiry isn't a single judge, it's chaired by Baroness Hallett but she's not alone in the work, and you'd rather think they'd already have ensured people would have the right security status to review relevant material.

The Judge doesn't need someone telling them what they can have access to, it's not a prosecution and defence situation. It's just we've the very odd situation of HMG instigating a report, and than acting to stall their own inquiry, and further someone who's a point of possible interest the inquiry claiming they're happy to have their info turned over whilst very possibly having withheld documentation. We don't though need another judge to review what the first judge can be told to pursue the inquiry that's the job of the first judge

[fishfoodie]

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

Special masters seem to be joint efforts, where both sides nominate some acceptable lawyers to review, & screen the material, they agree on enough from this pool of lawyers to do the review, but then all of these lawyers have to go thru the clearance process to make sure they can safely review the worst case classification content in the material.

All of this would just be a burden for a single Judge who has enough work to do, it's better to delegate given the sheer quantity of material that likely would need to be reviewed.

There is going to be irrelevant, & National security information in this, but if the Judge's delegates can review this, un-redacted material & agreed with their Government counterparts on it's irrelevance, then there'll be no problems. The problems are the Government handing over blank sheets of paper, or none at all, & patting the Inquiry on the head & telling them not to worry.

If they want to do that shit they shouldn't have even pretended to have it in the first place.

What absolutely MUST NOT HAPPEN is that the Judge should resign & let the Tories choose a nice compliant poodle.

There aren't two sides in this, there's the Covid Inquiry appointed by HMG, and HMG. And the Covid Inquiry isn't a single judge, it's chaired by Baroness Hallett but she's not alone in the work, and you'd rather think they'd already have ensured people would have the right security status to review relevant material.

The Judge doesn't need someone telling them what they can have access to, it's not a prosecution and defence situation. It's just we've the very odd situation of HMG instigating a report, and than acting to stall their own inquiry, and further someone who's a point of possible interest the inquiry claiming they're happy to have their info turned over whilst very possibly having withheld documentation. We don't though need another judge to review what the first judge can be told to pursue the inquiry that's the job of the first judge

This isn't so much about what the inquiry does need to have access to, as what they don't need to see !

The problem is that the argument about what is irrelevant, & if the two sides can agree that criteria in good faith , then separating the wheat from the chaff is easy.

Let's be honest about what the real problem is here; a few hundred politicians, SPADs etc have just realized that if a CS or lawyer looking at this content thinks a crime might have been committed, they are obligated to report this, & as a result, they are all shitting themselves, because this nice little earner is now potentially turning into a 5 year stretch !

[tabascoboy]

[Line6 HXFX]

There are Millions on waiting lists, desperate to get treated, currently on the sick and cannot work..

About 2 years ago was run over by car, recent MRI revealed lower back is completely trashed, basically at any minute my feet could go numb and I have to dial 999. I also have wicked PTSD.
I have to "be sick" because I haven't seen a back specialist (on a list) to get properely assessed and treated.
The mri was through insurance company. The NHS doesn't even have to pay for it. A specialist just has to look at it.
Assess me, examine me give me some dos and don'ts.
Right now I cannot sit down for long or stand up in place for long. If I do my back flares up.

When back flares up (it does regularly) pain goes to about an eight and I have to lay down,usually for a few days, during which time I can barely take care of myself, think or function.

Government decided over the phone, I can work.
No one knows if work will be good for me. What type of work is possible, Haven't seen a specialist.
Pain and oedemas all over my lower back says floating around in zero gravity and crying is about it.
Government are refusing to accept my sick notes.

As i can walk to the shops (walking seems to help, sitting and standing in place, which I basically all the jobs.. doesn't and sets it off) they say I can work.

Even though at any random time, back flares up and I have to lay down. I can do "some" work.
When I ask what, they cannot tell me.
Haven't seen a specialist.
Could start work, have paralysis from it.
Basically magical thinking is forcing me to take a random job, that within 2 days (sitting down day one..pain..sitting down day 2 excruciating pain, day 3.phone in sick) because the dwp have nothing.

There are millions of sick people, on waiting lists..we cannot treat..this is obviously bad for the economy, so government is saying " let's just pretend they are fine and can work, and punish them, threaten them, sanction them, stress them and hurt them.
4 out of 5 people sanctioned are sick.

You see, like asylum seekers.. we are just right wing red meat, to be thrown away...used as tools to win elections.
Not human beings, in pain.
Sufferring.
Looking to get better. Wanting the pain to stop.
Like the immigration system it is again..deliberately Screw up the healthcare system, blame the people who would have used it to stir up their voters and try to get votes.

"How they treat refugees is exactly how they would treat you if given the chance".
Tony Benn.

[I like neeps]

All of the pandemic now is a bit of a blur to me but I do remember sitting around in the sun with my friends Monday - Thursday loving a bit of eat out to help out. It was probably the high moment of covid. So yes not sensible maybe but what a good time it was in all the horrendousness of it all.

[Slick]

All of the pandemic now is a bit of a blur to me but I do remember sitting around in the sun with my friends Monday - Thursday loving a bit of eat out to help out. It was probably the high moment of covid. So yes not sensible maybe but what a good time it was in all the horrendousness of it all.

Yeah, I hope there isn't too much revisionism in this. As I remember, most people thought it was a stupid fucking idea but did it anyway, as the alterative was a bit depressing, and we knew the risks. Those that didn't want to stayed at home.

[C69]

All of the pandemic now is a bit of a blur to me but I do remember sitting around in the sun with my friends Monday - Thursday loving a bit of eat out to help out. It was probably the high moment of covid. So yes not sensible maybe but what a good time it was in all the horrendousness of it all.

Yeah, I hope there isn't too much revisionism in this. As I remember, most people thought it was a stupid fucking idea but did it anyway, as the alterative was a bit depressing, and we knew the risks. Those that didn't want to stayed at home.

Billions £ were scammed and it was a fecking retarded crass idea.

[tabascoboy]

Bob Stewart: Conservative MP charged with racially aggravated abuse

Conservative MP Bob Stewart has been charged with two public order offences.

The Metropolitan Police said the MP for Beckenham was being prosecuted over an incident in central London last December.

One charge relates to an allegation of racially-aggravated abuse, the force said.

He also faces an alternative charge of threatening or abusive words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.

He will appear Westminster Magistrates' Court on 5 July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65814126

[TheNatalShark]

Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

[SaintK]

Off the scale on the irony meter

[I like neeps]

Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

[Raggs]

Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

I know it's not a quick renovation, but a lot of empty office space seems like a great chance to increase housing, without building on greenbelt etc.

[TheNatalShark]

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

I'm somewhat coloured on the opposite as it didn't align strategic objectives and anecdotal experience. A chunk of my friends in catering/hospitality were fucked off by companies in March when we dallied between "don't go to pubs, but we won't close the pubs", or got mucked around in the "Boris will save Christmas, get those stocks ordered!". The cavalier approach played the same in delivering rishi's self promotion. For those that lost jobs and even the furlough "opportunity" (eg wider scale spoons), they would prefer a year of stability over 2 months of excess.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

As someone that went back to the office from early Jan21 (and now detests personally WFH) I'm not exactly in the "back to office bad" camp - but so much pointed even in late August that it just wouldn't happen and worked against the case management. The U-turns on ideology reasons were unnecessarily costly for businesses.

Tldr I'm very much a "do stuff for the wrong reasons and more often than not we will get the wrong results"

[TheNatalShark]

I know it's not a quick renovation, but a lot of empty office space seems like a great chance to increase housing, without building on greenbelt etc.

Aye, location dependent sadly may have missed the boat in some places. Beyond the done to death discussion on planning system & mixed use challenges, central or locally supported intervention in rate relief to bridge the residential/commercial value gap would be a great initiative imo. In interim gives areas the opportunity to develop familial infrastructure, young people will gladly rent space as they similarly already do.

[robmatic]

Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

I know it's not a quick renovation, but a lot of empty office space seems like a great chance to increase housing, without building on greenbelt etc.

You'd think so, but this is probably an underestimation of the Great British NIMBY who will literally object to anything.

[C69]

So by election is on the cards in Rutherglen. Pretty much a shoe in for Labour given the SNPs implosion and the history of recent elections.

[fishfoodie]

So by election is on the cards in Rutherglen. Pretty much a shoe in for Labour given the SNPs implosion and the history of recent elections.

A certain fat blond oaf ought to be concerned about what MPs regard as a suitable suspension

[I like neeps]

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

I'm somewhat coloured on the opposite as it didn't align strategic objectives and anecdotal experience. A chunk of my friends in catering/hospitality were fucked off by companies in March when we dallied between "don't go to pubs, but we won't close the pubs", or got mucked around in the "Boris will save Christmas, get those stocks ordered!". The cavalier approach played the same in delivering rishi's self promotion. For those that lost jobs and even the furlough "opportunity" (eg wider scale spoons), they would prefer a year of stability over 2 months of excess.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

As someone that went back to the office from early Jan21 (and now detests personally WFH) I'm not exactly in the "back to office bad" camp - but so much pointed even in late August that it just wouldn't happen and worked against the case management. The U-turns on ideology reasons were unnecessarily costly for businesses.

Tldr I'm very much a "do stuff for the wrong reasons and more often than not we will get the wrong results"

The march 2020 when everyone got laid off as the govt scared everyone to death but didn't lockdown and Dec 2020 was a total fiasco. But that doesn't mean everything was bad. I reckon eat out to help out was pretty good for workers as it got them active again. And as said it was good for me - 2020 is largely a forgettable lump of dread but the pub trips and eat out to help out were quite memorable and freeing.

I agree, I'm an in office 5 days a week type of guy but I think that lockdown showed that people don't need offices and the govt can't do much about that and later lockdowns didn't matter too much in people making that decision.