The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Sandstorm]

Whatever the technicals, not impressed with Embra sining Everitt.

He was sacked for many good reasons

Why was he sacked?

I don't know enough about the guy but I always thought Sharks underperformed given the players they have, so maybe someone from there is not best placed to solve Embra's underperformance problem.

He was gone after Sharks got whacked like 0-36 at home to Cardiff or such

String of poor results, no long term development of players under his watch, bringing in old journeymen of poor quality, hesitant exposure of youth, unable to deal with reintegration of national players when available and weak gameplans involving a lot of kicking when Sharks have some of the best backs around (albeit weak 10, but Everitt had long enough to try fix that, but stuck with an non-improving Bosch)

He also got completely caught out by the URC overseas travel element and couldn't manage his squad(s).

[dkm57]

Scotland U20 v USA U20

Scotland 40 USA 13

Comfortable in the end. Can't emphasise enough how important it is that we win this comeptition.

Thanks for the link.

Good wins for Scotland and Spain

[KingBlairhorn]

My hope remains that Mooar or similar is coming in post-WC and this is either a stop-gap appointment or else part of Mooar’s team.

[KingBlairhorn]

I presume it will take a while to happen and they will seek a buyer for the platform - I can't imagine they will just cut the product off.

I wouldn't put it past them, but there will be something in the contract about the rights and whether they immediately revert to URC or if they have the right to try to sell them on.

Quote from Viaplay:

"(We will) exit in the form of disposal, partnering or winding down the businesses."

So either they sell the rights, they sub-contract the rights or they walk away. So basically they have no idea yet because those are literally all the options available!

I was just reading a topic on this on a Scottish football forum (Viaplay also have Scottish League cup and Scotland international games) and it seems it may be the non-sport markets they are pulling out of - so their exceptionally niche scandi-noir streaming service:

Lindemann also said that Viaplay will discontinue its low tier non-sports offering in each of its international markets, including the US and UK, in order to focus on its sports offering and the sale of non-sports content through its profitable Viaplay Select business.

It could be a poorly worded statement from the journalist as it is not a direct quote, but it seems quite clear if accurate that the sport is going to be a key focus rather than dropped.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2023/07 ... t-markets/

[Slick]

I wouldn't put it past them, but there will be something in the contract about the rights and whether they immediately revert to URC or if they have the right to try to sell them on.

Quote from Viaplay:

"(We will) exit in the form of disposal, partnering or winding down the businesses."

So either they sell the rights, they sub-contract the rights or they walk away. So basically they have no idea yet because those are literally all the options available!

I was just reading a topic on this on a Scottish football forum (Viaplay also have Scottish League cup and Scotland international games) and it seems it may be the non-sport markets they are pulling out of - so their exceptionally niche scandi-noir streaming service:

Lindemann also said that Viaplay will discontinue its low tier non-sports offering in each of its international markets, including the US and UK, in order to focus on its sports offering and the sale of non-sports content through its profitable Viaplay Select business.

It could be a poorly worded statement from the journalist as it is not a direct quote, but it seems quite clear if accurate that the sport is going to be a key focus rather than dropped.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2023/07 ... t-markets/

Oh bollocks, I’ve just been very rude to them about cancelling my subscription

[Jock42]

What's the difference between the partnership and transition players in the Super 6?

[Big D]

Game week.

Would like to see mostly the 1s getting a run out although I suspect that Finn might get the week off. I'd play a strong team this week and v France (A) and mix it up for the other games I'd like to see something like:
Schoeman
Ashman
Fagerson
GG
Gray Snr
Ritchie
Darge
Dempsey
White
Finn/Healy*
Duhan
Huwipulotu (12 and 13)
Graham
Kinghorn

We need the starting back 3 to get game time together whether Kinghorn or Smith to build up the communication between them. I suspect Hogg did a lot of talking to Duhan.

*Did I read somewhere that Hastings is/was injured?

[Slick]

I'd almost be tempted to give Finn just one game this series, first or last and let Healy and Hastings do most of the work - I think Hastings is injured but presumably they must think he will be ready for some of these games.

BK and Smith can alternate games.

Edit: As I said before, I have real concerns, as you highlighted, around the communication and organisation of the backline without Hogg there. It just suddenly looks a bit of a liability.

[Big D]

I'd almost be tempted to give Finn just one game this series, first or last and let Healy and Hastings do most of the work - I think Hastings is injured but presumably they must think he will be ready for some of these games.

BK and Smith can alternate games.

Edit: As I said before, I have real concerns, as you highlighted, around the communication and organisation of the backline without Hogg there. It just suddenly looks a bit of a liability.

I think because SA is the first game and then Tonga follows we need the first choice guys firing. I saw they did a full contact game the other day in training but the focus really needs to be on the first choice guys getting right up to speed because to be frank they were a shambles v Ireland first game out last time and IIRC sluggish v Samoa.

We aren't getting Japan midweek after a game or the USA as a second game. If we are not careful the world cup will be over after game 2.

[Wylie Coyote]

I'd almost be tempted to give Finn just one game this series, first or last and let Healy and Hastings do most of the work - I think Hastings is injured but presumably they must think he will be ready for some of these games.

BK and Smith can alternate games.

Edit: As I said before, I have real concerns, as you highlighted, around the communication and organisation of the backline without Hogg there. It just suddenly looks a bit of a liability.

I think because SA is the first game and then Tonga follows we need the first choice guys firing. I saw they did a full contact game the other day in training but the focus really needs to be on the first choice guys getting right up to speed because to be frank they were a shambles v Ireland first game out last time and IIRC sluggish v Samoa.

We aren't getting Japan midweek after a game or the USA as a second game. If we are not careful the world cup will be over after game 2.

I think I am looking forward to this RWC more than any previously. I can't put my finger on why, Scotland's pool is awful so I am not expecting us to get out of the pool but it does somewhat remove the pressure of us. Respectable performances but non-qualification is par for the course, if we do make the quarter finals it will be a tremendous performance and would mean either Ireland or SA losing out, I'm not sure whose fans would take it worse so that would make hilarious viewing.

I think their are far more potentially interesting matches than in previous tournaments, when have we gone into a tournament with 4 very possible teams as winners (Ire/SA/NZ/Fra)? You could even bizarrely see England or Australia winning purely because of the draw. A really open tournament that I can't wait to see start.

[Big D]

I'd almost be tempted to give Finn just one game this series, first or last and let Healy and Hastings do most of the work - I think Hastings is injured but presumably they must think he will be ready for some of these games.

BK and Smith can alternate games.

Edit: As I said before, I have real concerns, as you highlighted, around the communication and organisation of the backline without Hogg there. It just suddenly looks a bit of a liability.

I think because SA is the first game and then Tonga follows we need the first choice guys firing. I saw they did a full contact game the other day in training but the focus really needs to be on the first choice guys getting right up to speed because to be frank they were a shambles v Ireland first game out last time and IIRC sluggish v Samoa.

We aren't getting Japan midweek after a game or the USA as a second game. If we are not careful the world cup will be over after game 2.

I think I am looking forward to this RWC more than any previously. I can't put my finger on why, Scotland's pool is awful so I am not expecting us to get out of the pool but it does somewhat remove the pressure of us. Respectable performances but non-qualification is par for the course, if we do make the quarter finals it will be a tremendous performance and would mean either Ireland or SA losing out, I'm not sure whose fans would take it worse so that would make hilarious viewing.

I think their are far more potentially interesting matches than in previous tournaments, when have we gone into a tournament with 4 very possible teams as winners (Ire/SA/NZ/Fra)? You could even bizarrely see England or Australia winning purely because of the draw. A really open tournament that I can't wait to see start.

It should be a good tournament.

[Biffer]

Hadn't noticed before, sorry if it's been mentioned, but Rudi Brown has signed for Vannes in the Pro D2. Here's hoping that's a good move for him, Hamish Bain and Ewan Johnson are already out there, might be the making of them all.

[KingBlairhorn]

U20s in serious danger of losing to Uruguay here. 30-19 down after 55 minutes. Not sure what happens if they lose but I'm sure I heard the commentator say it was a must win for both teams...

[KingBlairhorn]

This might actually be happening, Scotland 37-26 down with just over 10 minutes left. This is a disaster for Scotland.

[Biffer]

This might actually be happening, Scotland 37-26 down with just over 10 minutes left. This is a disaster for Scotland.

Conceding tries when we have a man advantage. If we lose this then heads have to roll.

[KingBlairhorn]

This might actually be happening, Scotland 37-26 down with just over 10 minutes left. This is a disaster for Scotland.

Conceding tries when we have a man advantage. If we lose this then heads have to roll.

It's not an if, we have lost

[Biffer]

Two scores down with a couple of minutes left and still defending desperately. We've lost this.

Our age grade system isn't fit for purpose and that will migrate into the senior team if we're not careful. It needs gutted.

[I like neeps]

Two scores down with a couple of minutes left and still defending desperately. We've lost this.

Our age grade system isn't fit for purpose and that will migrate into the senior team if we're not careful. It needs gutted.

If we aren't careful? We have a few lean years coming up.

[Tichtheid]

Well, we lost and we deserved it. We were utter crap, Uruguay would have won very comfortably if they had defended our maul better.

Well done Uruguay, but for Scotland it's a very dark day.

[Biffer]

Two scores down with a couple of minutes left and still defending desperately. We've lost this.

Our age grade system isn't fit for purpose and that will migrate into the senior team if we're not careful. It needs gutted.

If we aren't careful? We have a few lean years coming up.

Current senior squad is pretty young, but it does start to look like a paucity of talent coming through. Seems a number of younger guys are voting with their feet and heading to France and England as they'll develop better there.

[Yr Alban]

So we’re fucked then. Uruguay finish top and we contest 3rd place. Marvellous. I was already depressed today and this has made it worse.

[I like neeps]

Two scores down with a couple of minutes left and still defending desperately. We've lost this.

Our age grade system isn't fit for purpose and that will migrate into the senior team if we're not careful. It needs gutted.

If we aren't careful? We have a few lean years coming up.

Current senior squad is pretty young, but it does start to look like a paucity of talent coming through. Seems a number of younger guys are voting with their feet and heading to France and England as they'll develop better there.

The ones who don't get offers here are yeah. Last good u20 prospect to leave was probably Cam Henderson and that was a while back and he didn't get offered a pro deal with Glasgow but a stage3.

[Tichtheid]

Seems a number of younger guys are voting with their feet and heading to France and England as they'll develop better there.

If you are including Rudi Brown in that, my understanding is that he moved to a Pro D2 club only because he didn't get a contract offer from Edinburgh.

Edinburgh's budget was stretched to breaking point by signing Duhan, Ashman and Sebastian and resigning Boff and Big Bill. We let a string of players go, the likes of Hoyland would have been kept on in other years. If we hadn't signed Steele we would probably have made Ben White a decent offer too.

[TheNatalShark]

If I'm not wrong, this means the u20 now actually have to play to qualify for the Trophy comp, as they got into it by right of relegation.

Not sure how that will work for the team without the placement in the rugby Europe system

[weegie01]

If I'm not wrong, this means the u20 now actually have to play to qualify for the Trophy comp, as they got into it by right of relegation.

Not sure how that will work for the team without the placement in the rugby Europe system

Just have to hold the tournament in Scotland. (I assume hosts qualify automatically)

[Biffer]

If I'm not wrong, this means the u20 now actually have to play to qualify for the Trophy comp, as they got into it by right of relegation.

Not sure how that will work for the team without the placement in the rugby Europe system

You're right. Eight team tournament usually in November. Meaning the young players won't be available for Glasgow and Edinburgh at the same time the players from the World Cup are meant to be rested.

[Tichtheid]

If I'm not wrong, this means the u20 now actually have to play to qualify for the Trophy comp, as they got into it by right of relegation.

Not sure how that will work for the team without the placement in the rugby Europe system

You're right. Eight team tournament usually in November. Meaning the young players won't be available for Glasgow and Edinburgh at the same time the players from the World Cup are meant to be rested.

Not one of those players on show today is anywhere near ready for professional rugby.

[I like neeps]

Seems a number of younger guys are voting with their feet and heading to France and England as they'll develop better there.

If you are including Rudi Brown in that, my understanding is that he moved to a Pro D2 club only because he didn't get a contract offer from Edinburgh.

Edinburgh's budget was stretched to breaking point by signing Duhan, Ashman and Sebastian and resigning Boff and Big Bill. We let a string of players go, the likes of Hoyland would have been kept on in other years. If we hadn't signed Steele we would probably have made Ben White a decent offer too.

Stage 3 players get a pittance and you have partnership deals etc as an option so I think it's fairly safe to assume they didn't want him.

[Big D]

There needs to be sackings after this.

[Slick]

This is appalling. I hope the young lads don’t get it in the neck. I’m not one for calling for sackings etc but this has to change so let’s get sacking

[KingBlairhorn]

It's incredibly difficult to say what has suddenly gone wrong to be honest. Nothing much has changed in the pathways since our record best finish just six years ago in the main competition. It seems the SRU have pinpointed insufficient access to a good enough level rugby as the main issue and the inclusion of these boys in Super6 teams plus the addition of an U20 team in that competition is to help bridge that gap. Certainly some of those heavily involved (Corey Tait, Liam McConnell) seem to be a level above the rest, but others don't.

One thing that occurs to me is that World Rugby should be doing more to help us. We are and clearly have been struggling in youth development for a long time and if it continues we could slide off the face of the rugby map. I don't think World Rugby can really afford to lose a Tier 1 team but I don't see any efforts from them to help support us in developing those structures. We could do with additional money for sure, but I think that is unlikely with so many other nations trying hard to break into the top tier, but what we do need is expertise. We just don't seem to have the ideas needed to make it really work and to capitalise on what should be a firm base across the Public Schools and the borders. They should be helping us to implement programmes in the council schools to increase the number of kids playing the game in the same way Ireland have.

Finally, and I bang this drum all the time, the SRU should be opening 'Performance Schools' the same as the SFA did which is now looking to be hugely successful. These are specialist schools that can give the extra coaching, nutrition, strength and conditioning etc. to those not lucky enough to be in the Public Schools to allow them to keep pace with the privately educated kids. There is probably a very nice partnership to be done with the SFA on these schools which would make the cost really very minimal.

[Big D]

They should be helping us to implement programmes in the council schools to increase the number of kids playing the game in the same way Ireland have.

Councils aren't interested. They are happy to fund football due to the numbers that play it but in my experience don't give a monkeys about rugby. The SRU can't be expected to find money to subsidise councils and schools beyond DO's (out with performance school ideas).

I know of small clubs, and I mean regional league clubs, who were paying coaches (with help form the SRU) to coach within schools and the councils would offer no help at all.

[Biffer]

They should be helping us to implement programmes in the council schools to increase the number of kids playing the game in the same way Ireland have.

Councils aren't interested. They are happy to fund football due to the numbers that play it but in my experience don't give a monkeys about rugby. The SRU can't be expected to find money to subsidise councils and schools beyond DO's (out with performance school ideas).

I know of small clubs, and I mean regional league clubs, who were paying coaches (with help form the SRU) to coach within schools and the councils would offer no help at all.

Are councils stillworried about insurance costs? Because I’ve always thought that’s some thing the SRU could help with by using finance industry contacts to set up a centralised scheme which all schools / councils could buy into.

[I like neeps]

It's incredibly difficult to say what has suddenly gone wrong to be honest. Nothing much has changed in the pathways since our record best finish just six years ago in the main competition. It seems the SRU have pinpointed insufficient access to a good enough level rugby as the main issue and the inclusion of these boys in Super6 teams plus the addition of an U20 team in that competition is to help bridge that gap. Certainly some of those heavily involved (Corey Tait, Liam McConnell) seem to be a level above the rest, but others don't.

One thing that occurs to me is that World Rugby should be doing more to help us. We are and clearly have been struggling in youth development for a long time and if it continues we could slide off the face of the rugby map. I don't think World Rugby can really afford to lose a Tier 1 team but I don't see any efforts from them to help support us in developing those structures. We could do with additional money for sure, but I think that is unlikely with so many other nations trying hard to break into the top tier, but what we do need is expertise. We just don't seem to have the ideas needed to make it really work and to capitalise on what should be a firm base across the Public Schools and the borders. They should be helping us to implement programmes in the council schools to increase the number of kids playing the game in the same way Ireland have.

Finally, and I bang this drum all the time, the SRU should be opening 'Performance Schools' the same as the SFA did which is now looking to be hugely successful. These are specialist schools that can give the extra coaching, nutrition, strength and conditioning etc. to those not lucky enough to be in the Public Schools to allow them to keep pace with the privately educated kids. There is probably a very nice partnership to be done with the SFA on these schools which would make the cost really very minimal.

No way, unless they also support every developing nation too. And then when do you decide to support a nation? The Tier1s Australia and Wales are getting worse quickly. If we can't sustain being a tier1 nation we have no right to be one.

[robmatic]

Mallinder is complaining that the u20s lads haven't been getting enough game time, with only 'half a dozen' of them playing regular Super6. Surely the SRU should have been able to do something about that over the last couple of years? Either having a word with the Super6 coaches to ensure that they are all playing a quota of young players, or if those coaches think the u20s are genuinely not good enough yet to compete at that level, getting them to show what they can do at Prem/Nat1 level.

[Big D]

They should be helping us to implement programmes in the council schools to increase the number of kids playing the game in the same way Ireland have.

Councils aren't interested. They are happy to fund football due to the numbers that play it but in my experience don't give a monkeys about rugby. The SRU can't be expected to find money to subsidise councils and schools beyond DO's (out with performance school ideas).

I know of small clubs, and I mean regional league clubs, who were paying coaches (with help form the SRU) to coach within schools and the councils would offer no help at all.

Are councils stillworried about insurance costs? Because I’ve always thought that’s some thing the SRU could help with by using finance industry contacts to set up a centralised scheme which all schools / councils could buy into.

It terms of schools, it is qualified coaches, teachers being willing (or not) to coach and it isn't the easiest game to fit into PE etc.

But the council I was dealing with just don't want to spend the money. They spent money on a 4G facilities, agreed parameters to allow football and rugby then when installing decided to use shorter grass meaning rugby matches couldn't be played on it and allowed a local football club to block book all night sessions for winter training.

Another time they decided to cut funding to a DO, leaving one for the whole region and it took a concerted campaign from club committees to kick up enough of a fuss to prevent this.

Football is still king when it comes to funding and other sports are a distant thought. The SFA are being assisted by this type of funding, the SRU are pissing into the wind.

[westport]

Scotland team to face Italy in The Famous Grouse Nations Series on Saturday 29 July at Scottish Gas Murrayfield, kick-off 3.15pm, live on Amazon Prime. Tickets available here.

15. Ollie Smith (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
14. Darcy Graham (Edinburgh Rugby) 33 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby) – Vice-Captain – 42 caps
12. Stafford McDowall (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
11. Kyle Steyn (Glasgow Warriors) 10 caps

10. Ben Healy (Edinburgh Rugby) 1 cap
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) 61 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (unattached) 23 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) 35 caps
3. Murphy Walker (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
4. Sam Skinner (Edinburgh Rugby) – Vice-captain – 25 caps
5. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) 25 caps
6. Luke Crosbie (Edinburgh Rugby) 4 caps
7. Rory Darge (Glasgow Warriors) – Captain – 7 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 33 caps

Replacements

16. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) 47 caps
17. Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) 29 caps
18. Javan Sebastian (Edinburgh Rugby) 3 caps
19. Cameron Henderson (Leicester Tigers) uncapped
20. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby) 3 caps
21. Jamie Dobie (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap
22. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) 43 caps
23. Cameron Redpath (Bath Rugby) 5 caps

[KingBlairhorn]

Councils aren't interested. They are happy to fund football due to the numbers that play it but in my experience don't give a monkeys about rugby. The SRU can't be expected to find money to subsidise councils and schools beyond DO's (out with performance school ideas).

I know of small clubs, and I mean regional league clubs, who were paying coaches (with help form the SRU) to coach within schools and the councils would offer no help at all.

Are councils stillworried about insurance costs? Because I’ve always thought that’s some thing the SRU could help with by using finance industry contacts to set up a centralised scheme which all schools / councils could buy into.

It terms of schools, it is qualified coaches, teachers being willing (or not) to coach and it isn't the easiest game to fit into PE etc.

But the council I was dealing with just don't want to spend the money. They spent money on a 4G facilities, agreed parameters to allow football and rugby then when installing decided to use shorter grass meaning rugby matches couldn't be played on it and allowed a local football club to block book all night sessions for winter training.

Another time they decided to cut funding to a DO, leaving one for the whole region and it took a concerted campaign from club committees to kick up enough of a fuss to prevent this.

Football is still king when it comes to funding and other sports are a distant thought. The SFA are being assisted by this type of funding, the SRU are pissing into the wind.

The funding is key. The SRU should have the funds to have a fairly decent go at providing a schools pathway - as per my above post it is likely that this would be limited to a small number of schools though. This is where the Performance School idea comes in - it both limits the overall cost of running the programme as well as accentuating the small pool of talent we have. The SFA run the Performance School programme for less than a million a year across 8 schools, the SRU could do similar across 5, 4 SFA schools plus one in the borders:

Hazlehead Academy – Aberdeen
St John's Roman Catholic High School – Dundee
Broughton High School – Edinburgh
Holyrood Secondary School – Glasgow
A borders School - Gala is possibly the most accessible?


On World Rugby, they already do have huge development programmes - I believe they spend around £200m per year on development almost all focused on tier 2 nations. I do not think it is likely they will allocate direct funds to Scotland but they can facilitate growth in other ways by for instance making their development programme ideas available to Scotland, making their development coaches available to aspiring coaches in Scotland for learning, making materials available, implementing strategic reviews etc. All these things are possible for limited financial outlay. My core point is that if Scotland (and as noted by others Wales and Australia) fall away it damages the global game. It's not that we wouldn't deserve to be tier 1, it's that the whole of tier 1 would be damaged by the loss of 3 key teams.

[KingBlairhorn]

Scotland team to face Italy in The Famous Grouse Nations Series on Saturday 29 July at Scottish Gas Murrayfield, kick-off 3.15pm, live on Amazon Prime. Tickets available here.

15. Ollie Smith (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
14. Darcy Graham (Edinburgh Rugby) 33 caps
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby) – Vice-Captain – 42 caps
12. Stafford McDowall (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
11. Kyle Steyn (Glasgow Warriors) 10 caps

10. Ben Healy (Edinburgh Rugby) 1 cap
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) 61 caps

1. Rory Sutherland (unattached) 23 caps
2. George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) 35 caps
3. Murphy Walker (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
4. Sam Skinner (Edinburgh Rugby) – Vice-captain – 25 caps
5. Scott Cummings (Glasgow Warriors) 25 caps
6. Luke Crosbie (Edinburgh Rugby) 4 caps
7. Rory Darge (Glasgow Warriors) – Captain – 7 caps
8. Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) 33 caps

Replacements

16. Stuart McInally (Edinburgh Rugby) 47 caps
17. Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) 29 caps
18. Javan Sebastian (Edinburgh Rugby) 3 caps
19. Cameron Henderson (Leicester Tigers) uncapped
20. Josh Bayliss (Bath Rugby) 3 caps
21. Jamie Dobie (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap
22. Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh Rugby) 43 caps
23. Cameron Redpath (Bath Rugby) 5 caps

Hang on, I thought McInally retired? Is someone injured?

[Tichtheid]

Hang on, I thought McInally retired? Is someone injured?

Rambo's going to train as a commercial airline pilot after the World Cup, the four hookers in the side at the moment are Turner, McInally, Cherry and Ashman, one of them will drop out of the squad which goes to France