Dinghy arrivals / asylum seekers / gimmegrants

[Tichtheid]

If you really want to make the same comparison then point to a Labour Party policy from any manifesto or time in government and show where it is similar to one implemented by the Nazis

1968 Immigration Act - Harold Wilson.

It restricted immigration, so to use you're logic, literally a Nazi.

Gimme strength.


I can't keep explaining this to you.

Let me put it this way, all swans are birds, but not all birds are swans.

A party can have similar policies to another but it doesn't make them exactly the same as one and other. The Tories and the Nazi Venn diagram has an overlap on the polices mentioned - shall I draw it for you?

That commonwealth immigration bill was xenophobic and racist. The Nazis had polices that were xenophobic and racist.

See, it's not that difficult to accept the comparison.

[Tichtheid]

Don't feed the troll, people. He has history for exactly this sort of bollocks.

Aye fair point, I've been distracted away from what I want to be doing today.

[David in Gwent]

If you really want to make the same comparison then point to a Labour Party policy from any manifesto or time in government and show where it is similar to one implemented by the Nazis

1968 Immigration Act - Harold Wilson.

It restricted immigration, so to use you're logic, literally a Nazi.

Gimme strength.


I can't keep explaining this to you.

Let me put it this way, all swans are birds, but not all birds are swans.

A party can have similar policies to another but it doesn't make them exactly the same as one and other. The Tories and the Nazi Venn diagram has an overlap on the polices mentioned - shall I draw it for you?

That commonwealth immigration bill was xenophobic and racist. The Nazis had polices that were xenophobic and racist.

See, it's not that difficult to accept the comparison.

Yet you have difficulty in accepting the same position with the Labour party.

[Tichtheid]

1968 Immigration Act - Harold Wilson.

It restricted immigration, so to use you're logic, literally a Nazi.

Gimme strength.


I can't keep explaining this to you.

Let me put it this way, all swans are birds, but not all birds are swans.

A party can have similar policies to another but it doesn't make them exactly the same as one and other. The Tories and the Nazi Venn diagram has an overlap on the polices mentioned - shall I draw it for you?

That commonwealth immigration bill was xenophobic and racist. The Nazis had polices that were xenophobic and racist.

See, it's not that difficult to accept the comparison.

Yet you have difficulty in accepting the same position with the Labour party.

Nope, you've ignored/misinterpreted or misunderstood what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote - go back and read it again.

[Tichtheid]

Actually, don't.

I'm busy

[David in Gwent]

I'm not. You used a lazy slur to score political points, despite stating that you don't like people who use lazy slurs and I called you out on it.

This country, for all of it's faults, is one of the most welcoming, diverse, accepting and non-racist places on the entire planet.

The current government and the people who support them shouldn't be compared to Nazis.

[Torquemada 1420]

Please feel free to post some evidence of this

Is it not also self evident that a significant element of the Labour party Leadership, at all levels, also hold many views that align with those of the Nazis....

Your point being? That the Brits, as a nation have too many Nazi tendencies? If so, I'd agree. 100% of Royalists to begin with.

[Torquemada 1420]

Hi DAC

Really?

[Tichtheid]

I'm not. You used a lazy slur to score political points, despite stating that you don't like people who use lazy slurs and I called you out on it.

This country, for all of it's faults, is one of the most welcoming, diverse, accepting and non-racist places on the entire planet.

The current government and the people who support them shouldn't be compared to Nazis.

One last time with feeling


Look at the policies mentioned.


Are they or are they not similar to those used by the Nazis?

Tell the truth, now.

[Insane_Homer]

use you're logic

wat?

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm not really interested in crime rates being used to justify migration, however:

Overall crime has gone down in England and Wales as the number of immigrant and asylum seekers has gone up, the reasons for this are multifaceted, as are the reasons that some crimes are increasing

The 6.7 million crimes recorded were 11% higher compared with the year ending March 2020 (6.1 million offences). This overall increase was ...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... gmarch2023

I wouldn't take any notice of crime rate figures in the UK. Either way. The definitions are often debatable and also subject to gerrymander-like revision. Recorded crimes are questionable as agencies seek to fudge numbers...... to suit both higher or lower agendas (higher immigrant crime, lower priest paedophiles). Much crime doesn't ever get reported including the really serious stuff like rape.

[David in Gwent]

I'm not. You used a lazy slur to score political points, despite stating that you don't like people who use lazy slurs and I called you out on it.

This country, for all of it's faults, is one of the most welcoming, diverse, accepting and non-racist places on the entire planet.

The current government and the people who support them shouldn't be compared to Nazis.

One last time with feeling


Look at the policies mentioned.


Are they or are they not similar to those used by the Nazis?

Tell the truth, now.

The truth is you're using it as a slur.

Any government with a hint of a nationalist element has implemented similar policies dating back half a millennia. To use the Nazis as a bench mark for any such policy is lazy and calls you out for what your intentions really are.

[Torquemada 1420]

Yes, but that's incredibly facile.

Labour's main tag line at the moment is "Labour Will Build a Better Britain"

How is that anything different to the what the Nazi Party said? Obviously I don't believe the Labour party are like the Nazi party because I'm not a moron.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? That is an incredibly facile comparison compared with, say this:


or even this........ for a Welshman

[Insane_Homer]

The 6.7 million crimes recorded were 11% higher compared with the year ending March 2020 (6.1 million offences). This overall increase was ...

Crime went up, migration down by ~1/2

An estimated 268,000 people came to live in the UK during 2020, compared with 592,000 people in 2019

also the ONS btw

[Tichtheid]

I'm not. You used a lazy slur to score political points, despite stating that you don't like people who use lazy slurs and I called you out on it.

This country, for all of it's faults, is one of the most welcoming, diverse, accepting and non-racist places on the entire planet.

The current government and the people who support them shouldn't be compared to Nazis.

One last time with feeling


Look at the policies mentioned.


Are they or are they not similar to those used by the Nazis?

Tell the truth, now.

The truth is you're using it as a slur.

Any government with a hint of a nationalist element has implemented similar policies dating back half a millennia. To use the Nazis as a bench mark for any such policy is lazy and calls you out for being what you are.

You're doing your very best to avoid the question here.

Of course I'm using the comparison as a slur, these are despicable policies, I'm hardly likely to use it as a fucking compliment am I?

The question remains, is there a similarity?

[David in Gwent]

Yes, but that's incredibly facile.

Labour's main tag line at the moment is "Labour Will Build a Better Britain"

How is that anything different to the what the Nazi Party said? Obviously I don't believe the Labour party are like the Nazi party because I'm not a moron.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? That is an incredibly facile comparison compared with, say this:

I refer you to Labour's 1968 immigration act.

My entire point; people using the word "Nazi" to refer to the current UK Government are being intentionally divisive in order to score political points.

[David in Gwent]

One last time with feeling


Look at the policies mentioned.


Are they or are they not similar to those used by the Nazis?

Tell the truth, now.

The truth is you're using it as a slur.

Any government with a hint of a nationalist element has implemented similar policies dating back half a millennia. To use the Nazis as a bench mark for any such policy is lazy and calls you out for being what you are.

You're doing your very best to avoid the question here.

Of course I'm using the comparison as a slur, these are despicable policies, I'm hardly likely to use it as a fucking compliment am I?

The question remains, is there a similarity?

I would say the Labour party has more modern day similarities to the 1930's Nazi party, in terms of out and out anti-semetism than the current UK Gov do.

[Tichtheid]

The truth is you're using it as a slur.

Any government with a hint of a nationalist element has implemented similar policies dating back half a millennia. To use the Nazis as a bench mark for any such policy is lazy and calls you out for being what you are.

You're doing your very best to avoid the question here.

Of course I'm using the comparison as a slur, these are despicable policies, I'm hardly likely to use it as a fucking compliment am I?

The question remains, is there a similarity?

I would say the Labour party has more modern day similarities to the 1930's Nazi party, in terms of out and out anti-semetism than the current UK Gov do.

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

[David in Gwent]

I should have just invoked Godwin's Law when I read the post and I would have been done with it.

Silly divisive people.

[Simian]

the current UK Government are being intentionally divisive in order to score political points.

yes

[David in Gwent]

You're doing your very best to avoid the question here.

Of course I'm using the comparison as a slur, these are despicable policies, I'm hardly likely to use it as a fucking compliment am I?

The question remains, is there a similarity?

I would say the Labour party has more modern day similarities to the 1930's Nazi party, in terms of out and out anti-semetism than the current UK Gov do.

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

[Torquemada 1420]

Or this:


Or this maybe:

[David in Gwent]

Or this:


Or this maybe:

Not sure what point you're trying to prove, Torq?. Propaganda was invented long before the Nazis.

[Tichtheid]

I would say the Labour party has more modern day similarities to the 1930's Nazi party, in terms of out and out anti-semetism than the current UK Gov do.

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You'll have to try that again, when you say "No", are you saying the policies discussed are not similar to the Nazis?

We are not talking about any other government here, we are taking about the one that's been in power in the UK for 13 years now.

[David in Gwent]

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You'll have to try that again, when you say "No", are you saying the policies discussed are not similar to the Nazis?

We are not talking about any other government here, we are taking about the one that's been in power in the UK for 13 years now.

If the Nazis had invented such policies and people copied them, you'd have a point, but they didn't so you don't. It's pretty simple really

[Torquemada 1420]

My entire point; people using the word "Nazi" to refer to the current UK Government are being intentionally divisive in order to score political points.

All people making the comparison? Anyway, it matters not what the motivation is if the shoe fits.....

[David in Gwent]

My entire point; people using the word "Nazi" to refer to the current UK Government are being intentionally divisive in order to score political points.

All people making the comparison? Anyway, it matters not what the motivation is if the shoe fits.....

I can't believe you've lowered yourself to making the comparison, but it is what it is, I guess.

[Torquemada 1420]

I would say the Labour party has more modern day similarities to the 1930's Nazi party, in terms of out and out anti-semetism than the current UK Gov do.

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You are being disingenuous here. Sure, that's true enough but
a) That absolutely does not give you a "no" get out. At best, it's an "also".
b) And it's irrelevant. Rightly the Nazis are the benchmark for various, heinous policies and, that's a key point. The Tories don't have to be mimic every Nazi policy to fall foul of what this debate started being about i.e. Nazi like behaviour.

[Tichtheid]

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You'll have to try that again, when you say "No", are you saying the policies discussed are not similar to the Nazis?

We are not talking about any other government here, we are taking about the one that's been in power in the UK for 13 years now.

If the Nazis had invented such policies and people copied them, you'd have a point, but they didn't so you don't. It's pretty simple really

I think you know that the question is not where they originated, the question is whether or not there is a similarity between the relevant Nazi policies and the ones the Tories have implemented.

I've got stamina for this and I'll keep asking, so yes or no, but I'd like to see your working.

[David in Gwent]

You'll have to try that again, when you say "No", are you saying the policies discussed are not similar to the Nazis?

We are not talking about any other government here, we are taking about the one that's been in power in the UK for 13 years now.

If the Nazis had invented such policies and people copied them, you'd have a point, but they didn't so you don't. It's pretty simple really

I think you know that the question is not where they originated, the question is whether or not there is a similarity between the relevant Nazi policies and the ones the Tories have implemented.

I've got stamina for this and I'll keep asking, so yes or no, but I'd like to see your working.

You're being ridiculously childish and I'm sure you're realising this with every post you make. Childish and divisive.

Please don't doubt my stamina.

[Torquemada 1420]

My entire point; people using the word "Nazi" to refer to the current UK Government are being intentionally divisive in order to score political points.

All people making the comparison? Anyway, it matters not what the motivation is if the shoe fits.....

I can't believe you've lowered yourself to making the comparison, but it is what it is, I guess.

I can't believe. Oh. No stop. I can. I can believe the Tories have lowered themselves to new lows of behaviour without which such comparisons would be impossible. You are seriously going to try deny the likes of Patel and Braverman are the epitome of modern, extremists right wing ideals?

[Torquemada 1420]

If the Nazis had invented such policies and people copied them, you'd have a point, but they didn't so you don't. It's pretty simple really

I think you know that the question is not where they originated, the question is whether or not there is a similarity between the relevant Nazi policies and the ones the Tories have implemented.

I've got stamina for this and I'll keep asking, so yes or no, but I'd like to see your working.

You're being ridiculously childish and I'm sure you're realising this with every post you make. Childish and divisive.

Please don't doubt my stamina.

[David in Gwent]

You're deflecting again, we can come to the Labour Party in due course if you want to.

Are the policies mentioned similar to those of the Nazis?

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You are being disingenuous here. Sure, that's true enough but
a) That absolutely does not give you a "no" get out. At best, it's an "also".
b) And it's irrelevant. Rightly the Nazis are the benchmark for various, heinous policies and, that's a key point. The Tories don't have to be mimic every Nazi policy to fall foul of what this debate started being about i.e. Nazi like behaviour.

But the Nazi's didn't invent the kind of policies you're alluding to, so they can't be the benchmark. They can only be the benchmark for rabid Anti-semitism (see UK Labour party) and the genocide of millions of innocents.

[Torquemada 1420]

Please don't doubt my stamina.

If it is DAC (and if so, hi, and hope you are well), then this bit is certainly true. Get him and J2M together and all Swarm records will be obliterated.

[Tichtheid]

If the Nazis had invented such policies and people copied them, you'd have a point, but they didn't so you don't. It's pretty simple really

I think you know that the question is not where they originated, the question is whether or not there is a similarity between the relevant Nazi policies and the ones the Tories have implemented.

I've got stamina for this and I'll keep asking, so yes or no, but I'd like to see your working.

You're being ridiculously childish and I'm sure you're realising this with every post you make. Childish and divisive.

Please don't doubt my stamina.

Another deflection.

Yes or no, David in Gwent?

[David in Gwent]

I think you know that the question is not where they originated, the question is whether or not there is a similarity between the relevant Nazi policies and the ones the Tories have implemented.

I've got stamina for this and I'll keep asking, so yes or no, but I'd like to see your working.

You're being ridiculously childish and I'm sure you're realising this with every post you make. Childish and divisive.

Please don't doubt my stamina.

Another deflection.

Yes or no, David in Gwent?

I've given my answer numerous times. They are the actions of a government with nationalist elements who are under pressure to control a situation (they don't actually want to control it - but that's another thread) The are not similar in any way specifically to the Nazi party

[David in Gwent]

Please don't doubt my stamina.

If it is DAC (and if so, hi, and hope you are well), then this bit is certainly true. Get him and J2M together and all Swarm records will be obliterated.

Hey Torq, good thank you, hope you're well too.

[Torquemada 1420]

No, they are similar to any Government which contains Nationalist elements.

You are being disingenuous here. Sure, that's true enough but
a) That absolutely does not give you a "no" get out. At best, it's an "also".
b) And it's irrelevant. Rightly the Nazis are the benchmark for various, heinous policies and, that's a key point. The Tories don't have to be mimic every Nazi policy to fall foul of what this debate started being about i.e. Nazi like behaviour.

But the Nazi's didn't invent the kind of policies you're alluding to, so they can't be the benchmark. They can only be the benchmark for rabid Anti-semitism (see UK Labour party) and the genocide of millions of innocents.

C'mon. You don't need me to explain to you that a benchmark need not be the standard set by the originator. In fact, it rarely is. By definition a benchmark is the peak of something and so nearly always likely to change early on. The Nazis are the benchmark because they were pretty much the worst incarnation of right wing extremism, just as Stalin was for the left.

They can be the benchmark for very many right wing behaviours, politics and traits. Your trying to limit them to a Family Guy 1D panto villain solely characterised by anti-semitism is a massive slur to the millions of others the Nazis killed. And need I remind you, I am sure I am the only PR member who had a close family friend who was an Auschwitz survivor. And neither he, nor any of his murdered family was Jewish.

[Torquemada 1420]

Please don't doubt my stamina.

If it is DAC (and if so, hi, and hope you are well), then this bit is certainly true. Get him and J2M together and all Swarm records will be obliterated.

Hey Torq, good thank you, hope you're well too.

Hah. Yeah. Just older and slower. Thought about you a few weeks back when passing through Newport.

[David in Gwent]

You are being disingenuous here. Sure, that's true enough but
a) That absolutely does not give you a "no" get out. At best, it's an "also".
b) And it's irrelevant. Rightly the Nazis are the benchmark for various, heinous policies and, that's a key point. The Tories don't have to be mimic every Nazi policy to fall foul of what this debate started being about i.e. Nazi like behaviour.

But the Nazi's didn't invent the kind of policies you're alluding to, so they can't be the benchmark. They can only be the benchmark for rabid Anti-semitism (see UK Labour party) and the genocide of millions of innocents.

C'mon. You don't need me to explain to you that a benchmark need not be the standard set by the originator. In fact, it rarely is. By definition a benchmark is the peak of something and so nearly always likely to change early on. The Nazis are the benchmark because they were pretty much the worst incarnation of right wing extremism, just as Stalin was for the left.

They can be the benchmark for very many right wing behaviours, politics and traits. Your trying to limit them to a Family Guy 1D panto villain solely characterised by anti-semitism is a massive slur to the millions of others the Nazis killed. And need I remind you, I am sure I am the only PR member who had a close family friend who was an Auschwitz survivor. And neither he, nor any of his murdered family was Jewish.

Dude, don't you think comparing the Tories in 2023 to the Nazi Party is an even bigger slur to the millions that died? I certainly do.