Law question- Farrell tackle

[tc27]

WR need to make sure referees stop giving England players undeserved red cards. Whilst we won this game it clearly cost us the game vs Ireland in the 6Ns.

I demand any England cards are immediately reviewed by a 'special bunker' team consisting of Andy Goode, Will Carling and Clive Woodward.

[Paddington Bear]

Hahahahaha


What a pisstake, love to see it

[Paddington Bear]

WR need to make sure referees stop giving England players undeserved red cards. Whilst we won this game it clearly cost us the game vs Ireland in the 6Ns.

I demand any England cards are immediately reviewed by a 'special bunker' team consisting of Andy Goode, Will Carling and Clive Woodward.

To ensure there’s some professionalism to proceedings, two city types named Nigel and Giles will be in the bunker in a non executive role

[JM2K6]

Note that Farrell was not in the process of making a legal tackle only for it to be turned into an illegal one due to a late change in dynamics. The change in dynamics happened, then Farrell decided to make a hugely illegal hit.

I cannot think of a single more stupid decision made by a citing committee in the pro era. The final nail in the coffin of making any real effort to deal with head injuries and player safety.

Great for England and as a fan I hope it inspires Farrell to actually start performing for the team, but an absolutely dreadful day for the sport.

[inactionman]

It makes you wonder what he actually has to do to get a ban.

[notfatcat]

Very amusing!

[Torquemada 1420]

Yeah MK and Bletchley would probably be the two non Range Rover options (I stick in the Chilterns unless I can't help it ). MK's new ground (probably a decade old or so now) had all the bells and whistles but I have a suspicion it was built by Barratt or someone and is likely already falling down. Wolverton still have a cricket club, albeit they are a shadow of what they were even 10 years ago, MK lacks any properly strong rugby or cricket club which is a little bizarre.

Wolverton CC was pretty serious in the more distant past. Northants would play the occasional fixture there even as late as David Steele's days IIRC. They used to have the infamous "Pineapple" as their club house:


Rugby I get in MK. Cricket not since there is a huge Asian population.

[assfly]

It makes you wonder what he actually has to do to get a ban.

He may as well bring weapons onto the pitch next time.

Honestly this is such a bad decision for rugby in general. It makes a complete mockery of our rules, ethics, administration and shows we don't give a fuck about player safety.

[Torquemada 1420]

I played for Buckingham in the 1970's before they moved out of town to Maids Moreton
I can assure that there were no Range Rovers at Bletchley or the newly formed Milton Keynes who changed their name from Newport Pagnell in t5hose days

I didn't get around to pointing this out to Paddington i.e. Bucks excluding Milton Keynes!

FWIW, Milton Keynes did not change it's name from Newport Pagnell. It was re-formed from Wolverton Rugby (after a long hiatus between the Wars) by a PE teacher at the then grammar school (Ced Parry). Until then, being a railway town, most played football but those more in the professional classes played cricket. They played on a recreation field in Wolverton, HQ'd in a pub and used the railway work's bath house for ablutions. Later they played as MK in a sh*thole new estate called Greenleys before it was sold for housing and they then relocated to a slightly less rough, but equally soulless lego-land estate at Emerson Valley. These days, most serious rugby people in the area will play for Bletchley or Ampthill.

I was at Bletchley Rugby on Sunday and worryingly mass lego-land housing is being built at a rate of knots towards their pitches. One wonders how long before MK Council shafts them too for some backhanders from builders.

Bugger, I guessed wrong, I knew it was Wolverton or NP!!
Played at the MK Greenleys pitch a couple of times and yep a shithole!!
I do hope Bletchley survive as is, always a good bunch in the old days, a proper club. Some good village pubs on the way back to Buckingham as well.

You did well to remember at all if you weren't a local! A lot of those pubs have gone now although the Horwoods and Winslow still have watering holes.

[Torquemada 1420]

Note that Farrell was not in the process of making a legal tackle only for it to be turned into an illegal one due to a late change in dynamics. The change in dynamics happened, then Farrell decided to make a hugely illegal hit.

I cannot think of a single more stupid decision made by a citing committee in the pro era. The final nail in the coffin of making any real effort to deal with head injuries and player safety.

Great for England and as a fan I hope it inspires Farrell to actually start performing for the team, but an absolutely dreadful day for the sport.

Jesssus f***king kerrrrist. We all knew they'd attempt some fudge but this is simply taking the p*ss. As you say, they have basically run up a flag pronouncing "all this player welfare stuff is simply bollox rinsing".

[Raggs]

Note that Farrell was not in the process of making a legal tackle only for it to be turned into an illegal one due to a late change in dynamics. The change in dynamics happened, then Farrell decided to make a hugely illegal hit.

I cannot think of a single more stupid decision made by a citing committee in the pro era. The final nail in the coffin of making any real effort to deal with head injuries and player safety.

Great for England and as a fan I hope it inspires Farrell to actually start performing for the team, but an absolutely dreadful day for the sport.

Jesssus f***king kerrrrist. We all knew they'd attempt some fudge but this is simply taking the p*ss. As you say, they have basically run up a flag pronouncing "all this player welfare stuff is simply bollox rinsing".

Southern Hemisphere, funny how if he'd had an English board judging him, he'd probably have gotten 5 weeks.

[Torquemada 1420]

Southern Hemisphere, funny how if he'd had an English board judging him, he'd probably have gotten 5 weeks.

Eng had no chance at RWC so undermining it further by giving Farrell a freebie at the expense of everything rugby claims to have been trying to fix is an abomination. I would really love to get Steve Thompson's take on this.

[sockwithaticket]

And we thought he got off easy with the Esterhuizen incident!

We might as well ditch red cards for head contact in the tackle if this one didn't meet the threshold.

Absolutely mental. Can only think the Aussies want him to play in case they end up facing England in the quarters.

[Raggs]

Southern Hemisphere, funny how if he'd had an English board judging him, he'd probably have gotten 5 weeks.

Eng had no chance at RWC so undermining if further by giving Farrell a freebie at the expense of everything rugby claims to have been trying to fix is an abomination. I would really love to get Steve Thompson's take on this.

Agreed. But we've constantly seen the SH with a "different" interpretation when it comes to high tackles etc than the NH. Don't think any NH board would have given such a bullshit decision.

[JM2K6]

As a reminder of what happened and an easy example of how bad a decision this is, look at all the angles in the second half of this clip



In every single one, it's clear he that he isn't trying to make a tackle until after the change in direction, he's always upright, never trying to wrap with the hitting shoulder, and is never going to be legal.

The late change of direction is nothing out of the ordinary. Basham doesn't suddenly fall or get shoved 90 degrees. A sidestep would've been more dramatic. It's absolutely insane that they reached this decision and if I had hair long enough I'd be pulling it out right now.

[Tichtheid]

I said after the Zander Fagerson debacle that it would add fuel to the fire of those who are bringing a suit against World Rugby for them not taking adequate precautions to ensure player safety.

This doesn't so much add fuel to the fire as pours a tanker fuel of aviation fuel over it and starts a wind machine blowing at it.

[Slick]

Southern Hemisphere, funny how if he'd had an English board judging him, he'd probably have gotten 5 weeks.

Eng had no chance at RWC so undermining it further by giving Farrell a freebie at the expense of everything rugby claims to have been trying to fix is an abomination. I would really love to get Steve Thompson's take on this.

Alix Popham was in the paper today saying it was the type of challenge they need to come down heavily on

[Torquemada 1420]

I said after the Zander Fagerson debacle that it would add fuel to the fire of those who are bringing a suit against World Rugby for them not taking adequate precautions to ensure player safety.

This doesn't so much add fuel to the fire as pours a tanker fuel of aviation fuel over it and starts a wind machine blowing at it.

We've known forever that the people running the game are more ruining the game from
- the lack of inclusion of nations outside the big few
- financial unsustainably
- continuous fiddling with the laws
- and then not bothering to apply those very same laws
- general ineptitude (look at the HEC)
- player welfare: too many games
And now this. As you might gather, I am furious.

A dark and shameful moment for rugby and as you highlight, a potentially portentous one.

[duke]

Is there any possibility of an appeal against this decision? I can't see how this can possibly be correct given what we have seen recently.

[JM2K6]

Southern Hemisphere, funny how if he'd had an English board judging him, he'd probably have gotten 5 weeks.

Eng had no chance at RWC so undermining it further by giving Farrell a freebie at the expense of everything rugby claims to have been trying to fix is an abomination. I would really love to get Steve Thompson's take on this.

Alix Popham was in the paper today saying it was the type of challenge they need to come down heavily on

There's absolutely zero justification for that kind of tackle. Upright and hitting up, plus the hitting shoulder with the arm straight down.

I was raging about this stuff back when Israel Dagg was still a thing for the All Blacks. But now it seems the single most important thing is to ensure red cards aren't given. Find the slightest justification to prevent a card "ruining" something, and fuck the brain injuries.

By the standards of this decision, if a player tries a sidestep and the tackler then launches a shoulder into his jaw, it's a yellow card. It's obscene. I am not kidding when I say world rugby need to appeal this.

[And 1 guest]

Would they have reached the same decision if the ref had issued a straight red on the field? This stinks, and presumably sets a precedent where any head contact is excused if another player is involved in the tackle

[Thor Sedan]

World rugby cares not one tiny, minuscule iota about head injuries....not one.

What a terrible day for rugby that this man - with a loooong list of outrageously bad tackles is getting away with another one. F**k him and the people that went into bat for him.....take your punishment like 99% of decent rugby players would.

[assfly]

As a reminder of what happened and an easy example of how bad a decision this is, look at all the angles in the second half of this clip

In every single one, it's clear he that he isn't trying to make a tackle until after the change in direction, he's always upright, never trying to wrap with the hitting shoulder, and is never going to be legal.

The late change of direction is nothing out of the ordinary. Basham doesn't suddenly fall or get shoved 90 degrees. A sidestep would've been more dramatic. It's absolutely insane that they reached this decision and if I had hair long enough I'd be pulling it out right now.

Agreed 100%. His technique is horrific, he's launching up towards Basham's head and there is no discernable change in height at all from Basham.

It's completely mind-boggling what the committee must have been watching.

[Hal Jordan]

God help World Rugby if a player can get them into the US Court system, the blazers will be bankrupted with this sort of attitude to player welfare.

[Thor Sedan]

As a reminder of what happened and an easy example of how bad a decision this is, look at all the angles in the second half of this clip

In every single one, it's clear he that he isn't trying to make a tackle until after the change in direction, he's always upright, never trying to wrap with the hitting shoulder, and is never going to be legal.

The late change of direction is nothing out of the ordinary. Basham doesn't suddenly fall or get shoved 90 degrees. A sidestep would've been more dramatic. It's absolutely insane that they reached this decision and if I had hair long enough I'd be pulling it out right now.

Agreed 100%. His technique is horrific, he's launching up towards Basham's head and there is no discernable change in height at all from Basham.

It's completely mind-boggling what the committee must have been watching.

They just want Faz to have one last RWC. The precedent this sets is genuinely horrific.

[Stranger]

Just unbelievable

[Torquemada 1420]

And so the arse covering begins:

Six Nations chief moved to insist the officials from Saturday’s match cannot be criticised for their judgement in the match. That stance will only further cloud rugby’s already confused disciplinary processes, at a time when the sport is desperately seeking clarity amid grave safety fears.

“The committee believe it is important to record that no criticism is made of the Foul Play Review Officer nor would any be warranted,” read the Six Nations statement.

“Unlike the Foul Play Review Officer the Committee had the luxury of time to deliberate and consider, in private, the incident and the proper application of the Head Contact Process."

“The Committee believe this is in contrast to the Foul Play Review Officer, who was required to make his decision in a matter of minutes without the benefit of all the additional material including hearing from the player and his legal representative.

Nice try slimeballs but the clear inference is that the on field decision DID NOT follow the proper application of the Laws.

[sockwithaticket]

And so the arse covering begins:

Six Nations chief moved to insist the officials from Saturday’s match cannot be criticised for their judgement in the match. That stance will only further cloud rugby’s already confused disciplinary processes, at a time when the sport is desperately seeking clarity amid grave safety fears.

“The committee believe it is important to record that no criticism is made of the Foul Play Review Officer nor would any be warranted,” read the Six Nations statement.

“Unlike the Foul Play Review Officer the Committee had the luxury of time to deliberate and consider, in private, the incident and the proper application of the Head Contact Process."

“The Committee believe this is in contrast to the Foul Play Review Officer, who was required to make his decision in a matter of minutes without the benefit of all the additional material including hearing from the player and his legal representative.

Nice try slimeballs but the clear inference is that the on field decision DID NOT follow the proper application of the Laws.

It's one of two things:

Either the TMO fucked up or the disciplinary committee did. Thre's not fudging this.

Given the many, many head contact incidents most rugby fans will have seen over the last few years, it looks much more like the latter are at fault than the former.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

God help World Rugby if a player can get them into the US Court system, the blazers will be bankrupted with this sort of attitude to player welfare.

The game might be, the blazers not so much. Which no doubt informs their lack of giving a shit they're creating more Rob Burrows, Ed Slaters, Doddie Wears...

This is a day of abject failure for the game

[Guy Smiley]

Farcical. WR have decided to play the Monty Python gambit

[LoveOfTheGame]

It really is a sad day for rugby. Atrocious decision.

[Guy Smiley]

On the same day, George Moala gets 10 weeks for a tip tackle…. after his first red card.

[el capitan]

So translated from legal speak, that's Jamie George hopelessly wafting at the ball carrier led to a shoulder to the head being inevitable.

[Big D]

Will be interesting to see if WR appeal this. I think they get 48hrs to appeal.

[Slick]

And so the arse covering begins:

Six Nations chief moved to insist the officials from Saturday’s match cannot be criticised for their judgement in the match. That stance will only further cloud rugby’s already confused disciplinary processes, at a time when the sport is desperately seeking clarity amid grave safety fears.

“The committee believe it is important to record that no criticism is made of the Foul Play Review Officer nor would any be warranted,” read the Six Nations statement.

“Unlike the Foul Play Review Officer the Committee had the luxury of time to deliberate and consider, in private, the incident and the proper application of the Head Contact Process."

“The Committee believe this is in contrast to the Foul Play Review Officer, who was required to make his decision in a matter of minutes without the benefit of all the additional material including hearing from the player and his legal representative.

Nice try slimeballs but the clear inference is that the on field decision DID NOT follow the proper application of the Laws.

It's one of two things:

Either the TMO fucked up or the disciplinary committee did. Thre's not fudging this.

Given the many, many head contact incidents most rugby fans will have seen over the last few years, it looks much more like the latter are at fault than the former.

It has also completely undermined the shiny new bunker system a couple of weeks before it is being used in the global tournament.

[Slick]

Will be interesting to see if WR appeal this. I think they get 48hrs to appeal.

I don't properly understand this, is it not WR making the decision?

[Torquemada 1420]

Will be interesting to see if WR appeal this. I think they get 48hrs to appeal.

I don't properly understand this, is it not WR making the decision?

No. It's part of the clusterf**k created by all these small men with big egos trying to run their own sub-fiefdoms.

[Margin__Walker]

Been out and about and only just seen this.

Oh my dear lord, they've fucked that one up.

[Torquemada 1420]

[Big D]

Will be interesting to see if WR appeal this. I think they get 48hrs to appeal.

I don't properly understand this, is it not WR making the decision?

Independent disciplinary panel. I think they need to appeal just to get it clear for their refs. Would be a real shame if a match at the world cup is ruined due to a blown call (not that Saturday was IMO).