RWC SF1: Argentina v New Zealand

[Gumboot]

Where: Stade de France



When: 21:00 Friday, 20 October (Local); 08:00 Saturday, 21 October (NZDST)


ARGENTINA:
1. Thomas Gallo, 2. Julian Montoya (c), 3. Francisco Gomez Kodela, 4. Guido Petti Pagadizabal, 5. Tomas Lavanini, 6. Juan Martin Gonzalez, 7. Marcos Kremer, 8. Facundo Isa, 9. Gonzalo Bertranou, 10. Santiago Carreras, 11. Mateo Carreras, 12. Santiago Chocobares, 13. Lucio Cinti, 14. Emiliano Boffelli, 15. Juan Cruz Mallia

16. Augustin Creevy, 17. Joel Sclavi, 18. Eduardo Bello, 19. Matias Alemanno, 20. Rodrigo Bruni
21. Lautaro Bazan Velez, 22. Nicolas Sanchez, 23. Matias Moroni


NEW ZEALAND:
1. Ethan de Groot, 2. Codie Taylor, 3. Tyrel Lomax, 4. Sam Whitelock, 5. Scott Barrett, 6. Shannon Frizell, 7. Sam Cane (c), 8. Ardie Savea, 9. Aaron Smith, 10. Richie Mo'unga, 11. Mark Tele'a, 12. Jordie Barrett, 13. Rieko Ioane, 14. Will Jordan, 15. Beauden Barrett

16. Samisoni Taukei'aho, 17. Tamaiti Williams, 18. Fletcher Newell, 19. Brodie Retallick, 20. Dalton Papali'i
21. Finlay Christie, 22. Damian McKenzie, 23. Anton Lienert-Brown


OFFICIALS:

[Tichtheid]

Details TBC

Meanwhile, it's great that the two underdogs have progressed. Would be nice to see the trend continue tomorrow with more surprises.

Come on, when are New Zealand ever really underdogs? Maybe at basketball or football but not men's rugby.

As has been said a lot over the last few months, the top four is close and anyone of those can beat the other without it being a shock.

[Ymx]

Quick off the mark Gumboot

[Chilli]

Argies by 50!

Fuxed.

[Gumboot]

Quick off the mark Gumboot

I'm fucking trashed. Did not expect this result at all, so happily trashed.

[Slick]

Quick off the mark Gumboot

I'm fucking trashed. Did not expect this result at all, so happily trashed.

What’s the time? Not judging

[Gumboot]

Quick off the mark Gumboot

I'm fucking trashed. Did not expect this result at all, so happily trashed.

What’s the time? Not judging

Almost 11am. So almost bedtime.

[Ymx]

Quick off the mark Gumboot

I'm fucking trashed. Did not expect this result at all, so happily trashed.

I think Ireland still had a faint pulse by the time you’d made this thread.

[Ymx]

Not quite sure what to say about this match.

Argies are a passionate bunch, and you could see it lifted them in the Wales game.

Just hoping we are not mentally spent and physically spent getting through that match.

[Gumboot]

It was good to see our starting props come through unscathed, after all their ups and downs. And nice to have a fully fit squad to pick from. Hope they stick to the same side, apart from Roigard in for Christie.

[Flockwitt]

In one respect the enforced breaks should work in the ABs favour. There'll be big games still in the front rows. Key players elsewhere will still be fresh. My key worry is Ardie. He simply can't keep these 80 minute performances up shirley?

[Gumboot]

I don't understand how Ardie keeps putting in these MoM performances while he's playing out of his best position.

[Flockwitt]

yes, that too...

[Ymx]

Was genuinely good to see Sam Cane silence the likes of me. It was a bit more like the brute of the past that he was. The old warhorse has just enough.

[Flockwitt]

Was genuinely good to see Sam Cane silence the likes of me. It was a bit more like the brute of the past that he was. The old warhorse has just enough.

Does he have 3 games like that in him though? Probably not. I'd be tempted to get Dalton on early doors vs the Pumas, but on the other hand we need to give Ardie a break. A bit of a juggling act that the coaches should own before circumstances dictate it if they can.

[Gumboot]

Angus Gardner is the referee.

Ben O'Keefe got the other Semi.

[Sandstorm]

Angus Gardner is the referee.

Ben O'Keefe got the other Semi.

WHAT????

[boere wors]

Angus Gardner is the referee.

Ben O'Keefe got the other Semi.

WHAT????

So?!

[Ymx]

And probably Wayne Barnes for the final

[Kiwias]

Was genuinely good to see Sam Cane silence the likes of me. It was a bit more like the brute of the past that he was. The old warhorse has just enough.

Does he have 3 games like that in him though? Probably not. I'd be tempted to get Dalton on early doors vs the Pumas, but on the other hand we need to give Ardie a break. A bit of a juggling act that the coaches should own before circumstances dictate it if they can.

I'd like to see Blackadder have some time on the field in the semi.

[Enzedder]

I don't understand how Ardie keeps putting in these MoM performances while he's playing out of his best position.

He's the best 8 in the world but some still want to change his position. I thought we learned not to do that with Mils.

[Guy Smiley]

I don't understand how Ardie keeps putting in these MoM performances while he's playing out of his best position.

He's the best 8 in the world but some still want to change his position. I thought we learned not to do that with Mils.

https://www.hurricanes.co.nz/squad/player/ardie-savea

[Enzedder]

I don't understand how Ardie keeps putting in these MoM performances while he's playing out of his best position.

He's the best 8 in the world but some still want to change his position. I thought we learned not to do that with Mils.

https://www.hurricanes.co.nz/squad/player/ardie-savea

Again. He's the best 8 in the world, why change that. I don't care if the Canes play him out of position.

[Gumboot]

I hope we start with the same loose forward combination - the same one that started in our only two losses to Argentina. They got owned in both tbf, so plenty to prove if they get selected again for this one.

[Guy Smiley]

I hope we start with the same loose forward combination - the same one that started in our only two losses to Argentina. They got owned in both tbf, so plenty to prove if they get selected again for this one.

I get the thinking there but I disagree… I think we’re talking about using emotion as fuel for motivation and that is a limited resource. There are two chances for glory available if the first is taken… last week’s game was vindication. A chance to right some wrongs… I reckon relying on the same combinations could overdraw the account. While I think Argentina are a real threat I reckon it’s also a game to blood a few players like Blackadder who need the run and may be needed later if injury is a factor. It’s a delicate balancing act but some of our forwards could be rested this week. The whole squad needs to be on the boil… not just the annointed 23.

[Gumboot]

I hope we start with the same loose forward combination - the same one that started in our only two losses to Argentina. They got owned in both tbf, so plenty to prove if they get selected again for this one.

I get the thinking there but I disagree… I think we’re talking about using emotion as fuel for motivation and that is a limited resource. There are two chances for glory available if the first is taken… last week’s game was vindication. A chance to right some wrongs… I reckon relying on the same combinations could overdraw the account. While I think Argentina are a real threat I reckon it’s also a game to blood a few players like Blackadder who need the run and may be needed later if injury is a factor. It’s a delicate balancing act but some of our forwards could be rested this week. The whole squad needs to be on the boil… not just the annointed 23.

Everyone performed well against Ireland, and most players seem to be pretty well rested. How many changes do you reckon we should make?

[Guy Smiley]

Everyone performed well against Ireland, and most players seem to be pretty well rested. How many changes do you reckon we should make?

This is the balancing act I referred to...

Foster and Cane (before the Ire game) talked about everything over the last year being preparation to play a semi final. Without dredging up all sorts of variations on a theme, the mental effort required to target that game and that opposition is immense... asking guys to back up from that and then summon the same effort for a final that may be available a week later is stretching them. I wouldn't make wholesale changes but I'd be looking at resting some guys who might come up hungrier for the rest while allowing their logical replacements a chance to stretch the legs and try to match the intensity. The problem is that the Argies are a quality opposition who must be respected so there is no B team leeway...

how do you maintain the intensity required against Ireland in a game with los Pumas without over cooking guys for a possible final a week later?

My take on this is that wounded pride played a massive part in the victory over Ireland (somewhat justifiably) both on a collective and individual level for some players... Cane was villified pre game for instance and he came out fizzing. That sort of thing can backfire on players badly, look at Eng in the last RWC for an example. So who gets a rest to keep them on the boil and ready for a final and who is played thinking they have the tank and toughness to handle three massive tests in a row?

I'd start Blackadder, Ardie and Cane with Jacobson as bench cover. I want Frizell in peak condition.
I'd have Roigard in for Christie and as early as it is in his career I'd think about starting him and letting Smith come on later.
After 150 tests I guess it's understandable you'd have Whitelock coming on off the bench... but having Barrett on the bench covering lock and blindside isn't silly, that opens up the possibility of using Papali'i in the starting 15 but how do you rest your captain or the world's best out of position player?
I wouldn't touch the front row.

The backs are settled aside from the Leicester Telea question. One of them starts... and when do you bring DMac on for BB.

[boere wors]

Argentina was so bad against a 14 men England, that i can not see them compete against NZ. I haven’t seen the qf against wales though. Have they turned their game around?

[OomStruisbaai]

Argentina was so bad against a 14 men England, that i can not see them compete against NZ. I haven’t seen the qf against wales though. Have they turned their game around?

They are kak like Wales. The All Blacks will put 30+ on Cheikas team.

[Thor Sedan]

Are Argentina the new 'What team is going to turn up' team?

They can at times be quite breathtaking with their defence and attack - and they can also leak tries and go absolutely filthy with discipline.

[Slick]

Are Argentina the new 'What team is going to turn up' team?

They can at times be quite breathtaking with their defence and attack - and they can also leak tries and go absolutely filthy with discipline.

I keep thinking their backline is about to explode and then it just peters out a bit. If that clicks it could be fun

[Sandstorm]

Are Argentina the new 'What team is going to turn up' team?

They can at times be quite breathtaking with their defence and attack - and they can also leak tries and go absolutely filthy with discipline.

I keep thinking their backline is about to explode and then it just peters out a bit. If that clicks it could be fun

I can't recall a single backline move this RWC where the ball went from 9 to 10 and down the backs, to one of their very quick wingers. They just bosh or kick.

[Thor Sedan]

Are Argentina the new 'What team is going to turn up' team?

They can at times be quite breathtaking with their defence and attack - and they can also leak tries and go absolutely filthy with discipline.

I keep thinking their backline is about to explode and then it just peters out a bit. If that clicks it could be fun

I can't recall a single backline move this RWC where the ball went from 9 to 10 and down the backs, to one of their very quick wingers. They just bosh or kick.

Very true - which is odd considering they have genuine talent out there. Maybe they are peaking at the right time?

[Enzedder]

1. Ethan de Groot, 2. Codie Taylor 3. Tyrel Lomax, 4. Samuel Whitelock, 5. Scott Barrett, 6. Shannon Frizell, 7. Sam Cane (c), 8. Ardie Savea, 9. Aaron Smith, 10. Richie Mo’unga, 11. Mark Tele’a, 12. Jordie Barrett, 13. Rieko Ioane, 14. Will Jordan, 15. Beauden Barrett.

Reserves: 16. Samisoni Taukei’aho, 17. Tamaiti Williams, 18. Fletcher Newell, 19. Brodie Retallick, 20. Dalton Papali’i, 21. Finlay Christie, 22. Damian McKenzie, 23. Anton Lienert-Brown.

Samuel Whitelock in for Brodie Retallick and Mark Telea in for Leicester Fainga'anuku. On the bench Samisoni Taukei’aho is in for Dane Coles. Finlay Christie again over Cam Roigard.

[Flockwitt]

1 Thomas Gallo
2 Julián Montoya (c)
3 Francisco Gómez Kodela
4 Guido Petti Pagadizabal
5 Tomas Lavanini
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Marcos Kremer
8 Facundo Isa
9 Gonzalo Bertranou
10 Santiago Carreras
11 Mateo Carreras
12 Santiago Chocobares
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Emiliano Boffelli
15 Juan Cruz Mallia

Replacements:
16 Agustín Creevy
17 Joel Sclavi
18 Eduardo Bello
19 Matias Alemanno
20 Rodrigo Bruni
21 Lautaro Bazan Velez
22 Nicolas Sanchez
23 Matías Moroni

- There are seven survivors from the last Rugby World Cup semi-final Los Pumas played in 2015 against Australia – Matías Alemanno, Agustín Creevy, Facundo Isa, Tomas Lavanini, Nicolás Sanchez, Guido Petti and captain Julián Montoya.
- There are six players in the match-day team who have played in both previous victories against the All Blacks – Matías Alemanno, Gonzalo Bertranou, Santigao Carreras, Marcos Kremer, Guido Petti and captain Julián Montoya.
- Nicolás Sanchez has scored the second-most points of any test player in rugby history against the All Blacks (151) – only Australia’s Matt Burke has scored more against New Zealand (176). He has not missed a shot at goal at RWC 2023, kicking all 11 attempts.
- At 38 years and 219 days old on match day, hooker Agustín Creevy will become the oldest player to play a Rugby World Cup semi-final, surpassing South Africa’s Victor Matfield who was 38 years and 166 days against the All Blacks in 2015.
- Number eight Facundo Isa will earn his 50th test cap. He made his debut in 2014 against Scotland, earning his first 25 caps within two years, before returning to the team in 2019 to earn his last 24 caps. This will be his first test against the All Blacks since 2020.
- Fly-half Santiago Carreras generated much of Los Pumas' attack last game, with a team-high 14 carries for 112 metres, two line breaks and the second-most defenders beaten with four.

[Grandpa]

Everyone performed well against Ireland, and most players seem to be pretty well rested. How many changes do you reckon we should make?

This is the balancing act I referred to...

Foster and Cane (before the Ire game) talked about everything over the last year being preparation to play a semi final. Without dredging up all sorts of variations on a theme, the mental effort required to target that game and that opposition is immense... asking guys to back up from that and then summon the same effort for a final that may be available a week later is stretching them. I wouldn't make wholesale changes but I'd be looking at resting some guys who might come up hungrier for the rest while allowing their logical replacements a chance to stretch the legs and try to match the intensity. The problem is that the Argies are a quality opposition who must be respected so there is no B team leeway...

how do you maintain the intensity required against Ireland in a game with los Pumas without over cooking guys for a possible final a week later?

My take on this is that wounded pride played a massive part in the victory over Ireland (somewhat justifiably) both on a collective and individual level for some players... Cane was villified pre game for instance and he came out fizzing. That sort of thing can backfire on players badly, look at Eng in the last RWC for an example. So who gets a rest to keep them on the boil and ready for a final and who is played thinking they have the tank and toughness to handle three massive tests in a row?

I'd start Blackadder, Ardie and Cane with Jacobson as bench cover. I want Frizell in peak condition.
I'd have Roigard in for Christie and as early as it is in his career I'd think about starting him and letting Smith come on later.
After 150 tests I guess it's understandable you'd have Whitelock coming on off the bench... but having Barrett on the bench covering lock and blindside isn't silly, that opens up the possibility of using Papali'i in the starting 15 but how do you rest your captain or the world's best out of position player?
I wouldn't touch the front row.

The backs are settled aside from the Leicester Telea question. One of them starts... and when do you bring DMac on for BB.

I like and agree with a lot of this post... no way will the All Blacks be in the same emotional state as they were against Ireland... this game will have to be won by ruthless hard nosed stubbornness... the back ups will have more energy... but if things go wrong, will they be composed enough to turn it around? Could end up like the second Bledisloe when the experienced subs came on to save the game...

Start the first team.. and hopefully things go well enough that you can bring on the bench early...

[Guy Smiley]

I had a couple of beers last night, the first in weeks. Tapping all of that out was a challenge Now I'm second guessing myself and thinking that consistency is more important and sticking with the same team is the right way to go.

It's purely academic, of course. There's nothing to complain about with the way things have been going. Argentina are a threat. Let's just nervously get through this game and suffer the delay in slamming the door on Fozzie's arse with all the grace we can muster




/s

[Grandpa]

I had a couple of beers last night, the first in weeks. Tapping all of that out was a challenge Now I'm second guessing myself and thinking that consistency is more important and sticking with the same team is the right way to go.

It's purely academic, of course. There's nothing to complain about with the way things have been going. Argentina are a threat. Let's just nervously get through this game and suffer the delay in slamming the door on Fozzie's arse with all the grace we can muster




/s

Plus we get 8 days to recover.... if we win...

[OomStruisbaai]

Grandpa which NPC team do you support?

[Gumboot]

Enz & Flockwitt - cheers for the teams. Have updated the OP.

Christie on the bench again. Last week Foster said he was a "horses for courses" selection against Ireland, so does this mean he thinks Argentina will pose the same challenges that Ireland did? Or did Foster use some other selection criteria this time? I just don't get it - Roigard offers so much more upside than Christie.