RWC QF1 Wales vs Pumas @ 17h00 14 Oct 2023

[David in Gwent]

It wasn't a tackle. It was a clean out that would've been textbook had Tompkins not dropped like a stone. There really was nothing the player did wrong and nothing he could've done differently given the information he had.

Contact to the head resulting in an HIA, can't remember ever seeing that not penalised before, although the beer may wear off soon and I'll remember.

[Slick]

Best team won. But tbh I have never seen a head shot like that not penalised internationally
It's a new one on me. Has a TMO for a head shot been ignored before today at this RWC?

Wales and Argentina were very poor today and it was terrible rugby.

It was reviewed by the TMO and was deemed (rightly in my view) to be a rugby incident.

Argentinian went in at the right height, so perfectly legally, then Tompins height dropped suddenly, no opportunity for the Argentiian player to readjust.

It was contact with the head, with a shoulder and no arms, Tomkins head snapped back. How many tackles have we seen where the player has done nothing that wrong and still been pinged. Perfectly legal, right.

His head didn’t snap back, he snapped it back after the hit to try and milk it, like I say, chav Wales. Hilariously, that’s why he was forced off for the HIA

[David in Gwent]

It was reviewed by the TMO and was deemed (rightly in my view) to be a rugby incident.

Argentinian went in at the right height, so perfectly legally, then Tompins height dropped suddenly, no opportunity for the Argentiian player to readjust.

It was contact with the head, with a shoulder and no arms, Tomkins head snapped back. How many tackles have we seen where the player has done nothing that wrong and still been pinged. Perfectly legal, right.

His head didn’t snap back, he snapped it back after the hit to try and milk it, like I say, chav Wales. Hilariously, that’s why he was forced off for the HIA

He deliberately snapped it back on purpose after the contact to try and gain an advantage, is that what you're saying?

You're just a Rugby fan in disguise, aren't you?

[Slick]

It was contact with the head, with a shoulder and no arms, Tomkins head snapped back. How many tackles have we seen where the player has done nothing that wrong and still been pinged. Perfectly legal, right.

His head didn’t snap back, he snapped it back after the hit to try and milk it, like I say, chav Wales. Hilariously, that’s why he was forced off for the HIA

He deliberately snapped it back on purpose after the contact to try and gain an advantage, is that what you're saying?

You're just a Rugby fan in disguise, aren't you?

For once your comprehension is bang on

[David in Gwent]

His head didn’t snap back, he snapped it back after the hit to try and milk it, like I say, chav Wales. Hilariously, that’s why he was forced off for the HIA

He deliberately snapped it back on purpose after the contact to try and gain an advantage, is that what you're saying?

You're just a Rugby fan in disguise, aren't you?

For once your comprehension is bang on

I feel sorry for your family.

too far, leave peoples family out of it

Zap

[C69]

As a medical professional that has been involved with serious rugby injuries. If people think that is acceptable then get off your parochial stools and gtfo.
That with another ref could have been a red.
Herein is the issue with our game.

Ass holes thinking shoulder contact to the head is ok.


Gtfo

[David in Gwent]

.

[JM2K6]

It wasn't a tackle. It was a clean out that would've been textbook had Tompkins not dropped like a stone. There really was nothing the player did wrong and nothing he could've done differently given the information he had.

Contact to the head resulting in an HIA, can't remember ever seeing that not penalised before, although the beer may wear off soon and I'll remember.

I've seen it before. Not every head contact is considered foul play. There is a structure to these things and they followed it.

The HIA was passed.

[weegie01]

As a medical professional that has been involved with serious rugby injuries. If people think that is acceptable then get off your parochial stools and gtfo.
That with another ref could have been a red.
Herein is the issue with our game.

Ass holes thinking shoulder contact to the head is ok.


Gtfo

No one is suggesting that head contact is not a bad thing, but that bad things can happen by accident. In this case the actions of the Argentinian did not lead to, or contribute to, the head contact. Therefore he did nor get penalised. The only way his actions could be modified to prevent the head contact was if he never went in for the clear out at all.

Penalise players whose technique, carelessness or whatever leads to head contact by all means so that players modify those behaviours. Nothing the Argentinian player did needs removed from the game, it was pure bad luck that it lead to a head contact, and so as the ref stated, head contact is not automatically a card.

[David in Gwent]

It wasn't a tackle. It was a clean out that would've been textbook had Tompkins not dropped like a stone. There really was nothing the player did wrong and nothing he could've done differently given the information he had.

Contact to the head resulting in an HIA, can't remember ever seeing that not penalised before, although the beer may wear off soon and I'll remember.

I've seen it before. Not every head contact is considered foul play. There is a structure to these things and they followed it.

The HIA was passed.

So, in accordance with the laws you're saying that the player that was hit to the head wasn't in danger at all, right?

[JM2K6]

Contact to the head resulting in an HIA, can't remember ever seeing that not penalised before, although the beer may wear off soon and I'll remember.

I've seen it before. Not every head contact is considered foul play. There is a structure to these things and they followed it.

The HIA was passed.

So, in accordance with the laws you're saying that the player that was hit to the head wasn't in danger at all, right?

In accordance with the laws I'm saying the officials went through the protocol and decided it wasn't foul play. Because not every bit of head contact is foul play.

[David in Gwent]

As a medical professional that has been involved with serious rugby injuries. If people think that is acceptable then get off your parochial stools and gtfo.
That with another ref could have been a red.
Herein is the issue with our game.

Ass holes thinking shoulder contact to the head is ok.


Gtfo

No one is suggesting that head contact is not a bad thing, but that bad things can happen by accident. In this case the actions of the Argentinian did not lead to, or contribute to, the head contact. Therefore he did nor get penalised. The only way his actions could be modified to prevent the head contact was if he never went in for the clear out at all.

Penalise players whose technique, carelessness or whatever leads to head contact by all means so that players modify those behaviours. Nothing the Argentinian player did needs removed from the game, it was pure bad luck that it lead to a head contact, and so as the ref stated, head contact is not automatically a card.

Not it's not a red card automatically. It was a penalty. You don't need any pre-meditation for a head contact, we've all seen slightly clumsy tackles/clear outs that result in pens, yellows or red.

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

[C69]

As a medical professional that has been involved with serious rugby injuries. If people think that is acceptable then get off your parochial stools and gtfo.
That with another ref could have been a red.
Herein is the issue with our game.

Ass holes thinking shoulder contact to the head is ok.


Gtfo

No one is suggesting that head contact is not a bad thing, but that bad things can happen by accident. In this case the actions of the Argentinian did not lead to, or contribute to, the head contact. Therefore he did nor get penalised. The only way his actions could be modified to prevent the head contact was if he never went in for the clear out at all.

Penalise players whose technique, carelessness or whatever leads to head contact by all means so that players modify those behaviours. Nothing the Argentinian player did needs removed from the game, it was pure bad luck that it lead to a head contact, and so as the ref stated, head contact is not automatically a card.

Never seen such a contact being deem ok before.

[David in Gwent]

Last word, the still picture looks a nailed on card. Mistakes lost Wales the game, not the missed penalty or card.

[C69]

As a medical professional that has been involved with serious rugby injuries. If people think that is acceptable then get off your parochial stools and gtfo.
That with another ref could have been a red.
Herein is the issue with our game.

Ass holes thinking shoulder contact to the head is ok.


Gtfo

No one is suggesting that head contact is not a bad thing, but that bad things can happen by accident. In this case the actions of the Argentinian did not lead to, or contribute to, the head contact. Therefore he did nor get penalised. The only way his actions could be modified to prevent the head contact was if he never went in for the clear out at all.

Penalise players whose technique, carelessness or whatever leads to head contact by all means so that players modify those behaviours. Nothing the Argentinian player did needs removed from the game, it was pure bad luck that it lead to a head contact, and so as the ref stated, head contact is not automatically a card.

[weegie01]

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

I have a son who is a referee. There are many times I have felt aggrieved, then he has explained the relevant laws and the decison making process to me. So I have learned that, to no ones real surprise, the best referees know the laws better than most, and make few mistakes. It is usually we aggrieved spectators who are wrong.

[David in Gwent]

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

I have a son who is a referee. There are many times I have felt aggrieved, then he has explained the relevant laws and the decison making process to me. So I have learned that, to no ones real surprise, the best referees know the laws better than most, and make few mistakes. It is usually we aggrieved spectators who are wrong.

The TMO called it back, there was shoulder on head contact with the mitigation being his position went down by about 3 inches. 3 inches. They got this one wrong. It happens.

[Sandstorm]

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

I have a son who is a referee. There are many times I have felt aggrieved, then he has explained the relevant laws and the decison making process to me. So I have learned that, to no ones real surprise, the best referees know the laws better than most, and make few mistakes. It is usually we aggrieved spectators who are wrong.

Watching a Test match with a beer in your hand doesn’t make for good decision making.

[JM2K6]

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

I have a son who is a referee. There are many times I have felt aggrieved, then he has explained the relevant laws and the decison making process to me. So I have learned that, to no ones real surprise, the best referees know the laws better than most, and make few mistakes. It is usually we aggrieved spectators who are wrong.

The TMO called it back, there was shoulder on head contact with the mitigation being his position went down by about 3 inches. 3 inches. They got this one wrong. It happens.

3 inches? Completely wrong. It was as significant and late drop in height. He went from upright to getting hit by someone crouched low and bent double.

Also the fact that the still image makes it look like a yellow is both meaningless and also the reason why there is a decision making structure that takes into account context.

[topofthemoon]

With Rugby as it is, we'll see the same thing happen to all teams eventually. Without a doubt you'll feel as aggrieved at some point in the future. So be it.

I have a son who is a referee. There are many times I have felt aggrieved, then he has explained the relevant laws and the decison making process to me. So I have learned that, to no ones real surprise, the best referees know the laws better than most, and make few mistakes. It is usually we aggrieved spectators who are wrong.

The TMO called it back, there was shoulder on head contact with the mitigation being his position went down by about 3 inches. 3 inches. They got this one wrong. It happens.

It doesn't reach the stage of mitigation being applied (and if that's a 3 inch drop in height Tompkins must be a hobbit...)

Step 1 - Has head contact occurred?

Step 2 - Was there any foul play?

If you don't get past step 2, as aas the case here, then mitigation is irrelevant.

Incidentally, from the Context section of the HCP:

The focus must be on the actions of those involved, not the injury - the need for an HIA does not necessarily mean that there has been illegal head contact.

[Happyhooker]

There were probably 3 times Welsh supporters than Argentinian there and they got properly outsung.

I've never seen that before.

Wonderful atmosphere

[Line6 HXFX]

Wales lost that match before they took the field, because they were satisfied in losing it. They were convincedby everyone they overachieved.
That the Welsh supporters would be satisfied and proud with what they have done. There wasn't really any pressure to go further.
Their heads weren't properely in it.
It was so predictable, I predicted we would run out of fit players during the world cup 9 months ago, when Gatland took over.
We couldn't gather the restart and we couldn't win the lineout in the opposition 22. Its a frustrating to know you are going to do poorly because some technical aspect of the game, that can be ironed out in training.. keeps going wrong.
Dewi Lake and Domachowski did nothing but fuck up everytime they both put a Wales shirt on, during the world cup.

We have some great players but we had a scary amount of players with zero potential, just there to bulk up the team.

Room meat.

Anyway the nightmare is over now.

[TB63]

Puma's by 10.

[Paddington Bear]

Absolute best atmosphere I’ve ever experienced, was a genuine pleasure to be there yesterday

[dpedin]

Wales lost that match before they took the field, because they were satisfied in losing it. They were convincedby everyone they overachieved.
That the Welsh supporters would be satisfied and proud with what they have done. There wasn't really any pressure to go further.
Their heads weren't properely in it.
It was so predictable, I predicted we would run out of fit players during the world cup 9 months ago, when Gatland took over.
We couldn't gather the restart and we couldn't win the lineout in the opposition 22. Its a frustrating to know you are going to do poorly because some technical aspect of the game, that can be ironed out in training.. keeps going wrong.
Dewi Lake and Domachowski did nothing but fuck up everytime they both put a Wales shirt on, during the world cup.

We have some great players but we had a scary amount of players with zero potential, just there to bulk up the team.

Room meat.

Anyway the nightmare is over now.

Wales dont have a plan B and once their game plan fails then they have no where to go. Basically just one pass out, go through 2-3 phases then kick and chase and hope for a mistake. However Argies were pretty solid under high ball, Bofelli was immense, and they returned kicks that were better than the Welsh ones. Once Wales had to play rugby to try and win the game then the lack of ball players from 10-12-13 meant they couldn't get their danger men into game with enough space. Dyer did make a difference when he came on but by then it was too late. For me losing Anscome was the biggest problem for Wales, he is a real rugby player and could have made a difference at 10 but, like Sexton with Ireland, Bigger is too slow now and was a one trick pony and Costelow isn't anywhere good enough at 10.

[C69]

Wales lost that match before they took the field, because they were satisfied in losing it. They were convincedby everyone they overachieved.
That the Welsh supporters would be satisfied and proud with what they have done. There wasn't really any pressure to go further.
Their heads weren't properely in it.
It was so predictable, I predicted we would run out of fit players during the world cup 9 months ago, when Gatland took over.
We couldn't gather the restart and we couldn't win the lineout in the opposition 22. Its a frustrating to know you are going to do poorly because some technical aspect of the game, that can be ironed out in training.. keeps going wrong.
Dewi Lake and Domachowski did nothing but fuck up everytime they both put a Wales shirt on, during the world cup.

We have some great players but we had a scary amount of players with zero potential, just there to bulk up the team.

Room meat.

Anyway the nightmare is over now.

Wales dont have a plan B and once their game plan fails then they have no where to go. Basically just one pass out, go through 2-3 phases then kick and chase and hope for a mistake. However Argies were pretty solid under high ball, Bofelli was immense, and they returned kicks that were better than the Welsh ones. Once Wales had to play rugby to try and win the game then the lack of ball players from 10-12-13 meant they couldn't get their danger men into game with enough space. Dyer did make a difference when he came on but by then it was too late. For me losing Anscome was the biggest problem for Wales, he is a real rugby player and could have made a difference at 10 but, like Sexton with Ireland, Bigger is too slow now and was a one trick pony and Costelow isn't anywhere good enough at 10.

Agreed
But Hey we had our chances and did better than expected.

[TB63]

Best to bow out now, regroup, lick our wounds, than scrape through only to receive an absolute arse reaming off the ABs..

[C69]

Best to bow out now, regroup, lick our wounds, than scrape through only to receive an absolute arse reaming off the ABs..

Yip the Argies are going to be their Private Dancer.

[Tichtheid]

Did Wales do better than what was expected of them? There were a couple of unexpected things in that pool, one was how bad Australia were and the other was Fiji qualifying.

Wales were favourites to get out the group before a ball was kicked, I don’t think many would have put a lot of money on Georgia or Portugal to get out the group.

[sockwithaticket]

Best to bow out now, regroup, lick our wounds, than scrape through only to receive an absolute arse reaming off the ABs..

Yip the Argies are going to be their Private Dancer.

Basically a rerun of 2015 for them - great quarter final result over a NH team, comprehensively beaten in the semi by one of their SH compatriots.

[C69]

Did Wales do better than what was expected of them? There were a couple of unexpected things in that pool, one was how bad Australia were and the other was Fiji qualifying.

Wales were favourites to get out the group before a ball was kicked, I don’t think many would have put a lot of money on Georgia or Portugal to get out the group.

They did better than I expected.

[petej]

Best to bow out now, regroup, lick our wounds, than scrape through only to receive an absolute arse reaming off the ABs..

Yip the Argies are going to be their Private Dancer.

Not so sure. Argentina have improved in this tournament. We have seen multiple times in world cups where teams have had massive intense matches and been fatigued the next week. The NZ Ireland match was a level above Argentina Wales.

[Slick]

Did Wales do better than what was expected of them? There were a couple of unexpected things in that pool, one was how bad Australia were and the other was Fiji qualifying.

Wales were favourites to get out the group before a ball was kicked, I don’t think many would have put a lot of money on Georgia or Portugal to get out the group.

They did better than I expected.

Me too. But genuinely quite excited to see what Gatland can put together with some of the young guys. This next season will be tough I reckon, but year 2 could get interesting

[Line6 HXFX]

Yeah, again see, if we are looking to the future, the present is fucked, New Zealand aren't looking to the future.
They play the game, inthat moment like their lives depend in it. No excuses.

If the Welsh team had just nameless people playing for it, completely anonymous, not even numbers..just a team of people, with Wales written on their backs, and we didn't know who the hell they are..no egos, no personalities, no media hype, just.a bunch of guys, that arrive, win and disappear..and the media thinking wtf just happenned, it would be awesome.

This is what we should be aspiring to.