RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

[SaintK]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

[Lobby]

South Africa's best score against England is 58–10 in 2007, a 48 point winning margin. There's a good chance South Africa will beat that record on Saturday, especially if Bin starts giving cards against England for high tackles and persistent offside/scrum collapses.

Their record score against a NH team (96 - 13 against a hapless Wales in 1998) should be safe though.

[Raggs]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

[petej]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

Yep. Got to assume chessum has a knock. Farrell as lone playmaker is going to work as it always does. Really concerned about the 10-12 channel with manu and Farrell who both like to go flying out of the line.

Still think SA by 45.

[Lobby]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

Presumably Borthwick's noticed that there is significant drop in quality in England's performance when the replacements come on and as he's worried about the Bomb Squad, he's decided to improve the replacements by including Chessum in their number, forgetting that this means starting with the mediocre Martin.

[Sandstorm]

So we're all agreed, Le Roux will be man of the match.

Is he a Shark yet?

[sockwithaticket]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

Yup. We are now essentially aping peak Gatlandball. Play crash bash anti-rugby and try to hang within a score and hope we can conjure something late on to nick it.

[Hal Jordan]

Nothing Martin has done has suggested he's a Test starter, let alone in a semi-final.

[JM2K6]

Proper Dad's Army job.

I remember Lancaster being obsessed by having a 15 with 600 test caps before the 15 RW, which was a bit of a stretch at the time for him.

The team above has over 900

Edit - Marler in and Martin starting the surprises there.

Starting the prop pairing that are as mobile as oil tankers, but slightly less likely to getting monstered in the scrum

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

Slight problem with that is Marler has looked pretty average in the scrum in this tournament.

[Oxbow]

I'm yet to see any reason that Martin gets near an international side other than his club kit.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm yet to see any reason that Martin gets near an international side other than his club kit.

Was he even a consistent starter for Leicester last season. I swear I only saw him come off the bench.

[Cartman]

How do you compete againt this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/springboks/s/fiekjSyIOP

[Sandstorm]

How do you compete againt this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/springboks/s/fiekjSyIOP

That's beautiful.

[SaintK]

I'm yet to see any reason that Martin gets near an international side other than his club kit.

Was he even a consistent starter for Leicester last season. I swear I only saw him come off the bench.

Yes regularly

[JM2K6]

I'm yet to see any reason that Martin gets near an international side other than his club kit.

Same tbh. But then I was also not sold on Chessum for some time.

Martin gets huge hype compared to his output. He made a ton of tackles in one match, which is nice, but you'd be hard pressed to remember any of them and he made little impact elsewhere. Compared to the impact made by the no name Saffer covering for him at Tigers I struggle to see what he does that deserves all the talk.

[Cartman]

How do you compete againt this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/springboks/s/fiekjSyIOP

That's beautiful.

Want to adopt him lol

[Blake]

How do you compete againt this?
https://www.reddit.com/r/springboks/s/fiekjSyIOP

That's beautiful.

Want to adopt him lol

This is an old video, but apparently the Boks have been getting messages like these all week:


And then people wonder how and why the Boks lift themselves when it comes to World Cups.

[Slick]

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

Slight problem with that is Marler has looked pretty average in the scrum in this tournament.

He's fallen so far into his own hype bubble. Against Fiji he just wandered about for a few minutes trying to be funny, it was very odd. Maybe packing down against SA will give him a bit more focus.

[OomStruisbaai]

Hope the ref watch Marler with his dirty tricks. Rated him but he changed into the typical old men thug.

[Cartman]

That's beautiful.

Want to adopt him lol

This is an old video, but apparently the Boks have been getting messages like these all week:


And then people wonder how and why the Boks lift themselves when it comes to World Cups.

That's great

[_Os_]

A lot of English on the thread are talking about record scores. I would be extremely surprised.

England's lineout is probably better, the Bok lineout hasn't functioned that well without Marx and De Jager, it's not at it's usual strength this RWC. Starting Kleyn would've maybe been the best way to improve the Bok lineout, but that hasn't happened. The Bok scrum is going well, but unless the Boks can start winning scrum penalties against England at will then that won't matter as much (lineout has always been much more important for the Boks to attack from). Kicking is also an area I would put England ahead. If England play a bit and defend, then any sort of record score becomes incredibly unlikely, England would have to allow that to happen.

The 2019 final is the most complete game the Boks have managed against England in recent times and the biggest win, that was 20 points. England have beaten this Bok team of course. RasNaber has taken it very seriously, hence no team changes.

[Guy Smiley]

RasNaber has taken it very seriously, hence no team changes.

A world cup quarter final? Taken seriously?

good grief.

[_Os_]

RasNaber has taken it very seriously, hence no team changes.

A world cup quarter final? Taken seriously?

good grief.

They changed the team for the quarter chief.

[JM2K6]

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

Slight problem with that is Marler has looked pretty average in the scrum in this tournament.

He's fallen so far into his own hype bubble. Against Fiji he just wandered about for a few minutes trying to be funny, it was very odd. Maybe packing down against SA will give him a bit more focus.

I don't think his "hype bubble" (wtf) is why he's struggled in the scrum, if I'm honest. I think it's more that he's been away from international rugby for a while and is an old bloke who has been playing constantly since he was a teenager

[OomStruisbaai]

That's beautiful.

Want to adopt him lol

This is an old video, but apparently the Boks have been getting messages like these all week:


And then people wonder how and why the Boks lift themselves when it comes to World Cups.

Look like Grey High, Kolisi and Nippers Alma mater. Must say I enjoy Kolisi when the Boks ran on the field singing.

[_Os_]

I enjoy Kolisi when the Boks ran on the field singing.

It's an old soccer tradition/tactic oom. Lets hope the Boks don't end up better at singing than playing rugby.

[Slick]

Slight problem with that is Marler has looked pretty average in the scrum in this tournament.

He's fallen so far into his own hype bubble. Against Fiji he just wandered about for a few minutes trying to be funny, it was very odd. Maybe packing down against SA will give him a bit more focus.

I don't think his "hype bubble" (wtf) is why he's struggled in the scrum, if I'm honest. I think it's more that he's been away from international rugby for a while and is an old bloke who has been playing constantly since he was a teenager

I’ve no idea what that means either tbh. Anyway, he just looks so distracted when he’s on the pitch at the moment.

You’ve also got Sinkler and Genge taking every opportunity to tell everyone how they have beaten their toxic aggression, or something, which has completely ruined their game. As I say, I hope playing SA focusses them a bit and they get back to being a horrible England front row

[Tichtheid]

As I say, I hope playing SA focusses them a bit and they get back to being a horrible England front row

Early March next year would be just about right, timing wise.

[JM2K6]

He's fallen so far into his own hype bubble. Against Fiji he just wandered about for a few minutes trying to be funny, it was very odd. Maybe packing down against SA will give him a bit more focus.

I don't think his "hype bubble" (wtf) is why he's struggled in the scrum, if I'm honest. I think it's more that he's been away from international rugby for a while and is an old bloke who has been playing constantly since he was a teenager

I’ve no idea what that means either tbh. Anyway, he just looks so distracted when he’s on the pitch at the moment.

You’ve also got Sinkler and Genge taking every opportunity to tell everyone how they have beaten their toxic aggression, or something, which has completely ruined their game. As I say, I hope playing SA focusses them a bit and they get back to being a horrible England front row

You should look up the cult shit that Sinkler is into..It's absolutely bonkers. Makes Scientology look normal.

[Jethro]

WTF is Martin starting in front of Chessum for? Chessum has been one of the relatively few successes for England this RWC

More oomph in the scrum, more solid tackling? Hold the line for 60 minutes, and hope that Genge/Sink/Lawrence/Ford etc can up the pace and snatch a result without losing too much in the meantime.

Yup. We are now essentially aping peak Gatlandball. Play crash bash anti-rugby and try to hang within a score and hope we can conjure something late on to nick it.

So repeat of the quarter final

[_Os_]

This is the sort of kak we love. Gives us this full strength.

On the missed tackles stat, that's one where rugby stats are a bit of a blunt instrument. There's a difference between being proactive rushing up on defence and making the ball carrier slow down/react/think even if the tackle isn't completed, and being passive and getting run over by the ball carrier.

[Margin__Walker]

This is the sort of kak we love. Gives us this full strength.

On the missed tackles stat, that's one where rugby stats are a bit of a blunt instrument. There's a difference between being proactive rushing up on defence and making the ball carrier slow down/react/think even if the tackle isn't completed, and being passive and getting run over by the ball carrier.

Tindall does this every world cup. Enjoy

Dawson will be next

[_Os_]

Tindall does this every world cup. Enjoy

Dawson will be next

Last time out before the final he said he didn't know who Am was. It's just amusing. That account is retweeted by Boks sometimes, I guess they've got a laugh from it too.

It's a shame, this England side have been written off but they're not that bad. Steward was a good selection and will be crucial for England, obvious there's something that could be said for England that not many are saying, kicking (Steward's selection)/England's lineout/England's defence.

[Blake]

Weather forecast for Paris doesn't look great for Saturday.
Not sure if that will help us or hurt us.

[Margin__Walker]

Tindall does this every world cup. Enjoy

Dawson will be next

Last time out before the final he said he didn't know who Am was. It's just amusing. That account is retweeted by Boks sometimes, I guess they've got a laugh from it too.

It's a shame, this England side have been written off but they're not that bad. Steward was a good selection and will be crucial for England, obvious there's something that could be said for England that not many are saying, kicking (Steward's selection)/England's lineout/England's defence.

Fans saying England will get hammered is a bit of a defence mechanism really to soften the blow of the expected defeat. It's definitely a possibility (we got murdered by the French in the 6N), but it wouldn't be my expectation. Knock out rugby can be pretty cagey and tighter than expected.

There's certainly a path to victory for England, but it's a narrow one. The Boks are well coached and they are better players man for man for most of the 23. Any England victory would need to be built on the defence really firing and knocking SA confidence in their ability to punch holes. The scrum needs something close to parity, as you can't win games conceding pens at every set piece. Finally we'll need to avoid our veteran wings and built like a back row FB being exploited too when the game breaks up by that Bok back 3.

All very difficult, but possible. It's a cliché, but the big one is the defence. Stop the opposition on or behind the gainline and funny things can start to happen. Would need guys like Itoje, Lawes, Curry and Tuilagi to wind back the years and put in a massive shift.

[JM2K6]

Sure, I think the most likely thing is a 12-18 point loss for England where it's tight at half time, because it's a team picked and coached to "not lose". Which, it turns out, simply means we do lose quite a lot to better teams and ensure we can't pull a rabbit out of the hat.

We're unbeaten at this world Cup though! Against teams who have been absolute shite most of the time.

[Raggs]

The team we have is full of players who in good form have been amazing. But the thing is, we're talking about 10 years ago for Cole, 4? years ago for the likes of Daly and quite a few of the other of his generation. These aren't class/form fluctuations anymore, they're the new norm.

Sure, it could come together and we could see something fantastic, and if we do, even if we lose, whilst I'll be upset I'll at least be hopeful for the future, but overall I don't think we're going to see that. We'll see a determined defensive effort, that won't be able to hold up for 80 minutes.

[Bloutoria]

Raining in Paris, probably tomorrow as well.

[Margin__Walker]

Sure, I think the most likely thing is a 12-18 point loss for England where it's tight at half time, because it's a team picked and coached to "not lose". Which, it turns out, simply means we do lose quite a lot to better teams and ensure we can't pull a rabbit out of the hat.

We're unbeaten at this world Cup though! Against teams who have been absolute shite most of the time.

Oh, sure. The whole Borthwick experience has been crushingly conservative. Blessed by a frankly hilarious draw.

None of the top four teams will be feeling particularly threatened by our ability to actually hurt them offensively.

All good fun

[OomStruisbaai]

Weather forecast for Paris doesn't look great for Saturday.
Not sure if that will help us or hurt us.

Its the big leveller. We know how kak Libbok play in that NH conditions.