RWC SF2 England vs Springboks on 21/10 @ 21h00

[Ymx]

I love these types of videos.

[Margin__Walker]

Was going to post that earlier.

That's pretty impressive. Some serious hours have gone into that over his career.

[Simian]

After a week of internal deliberations I'm coming out for England this weekend. The caveat is that if they do win they get smashed by NZ in the final, but nonetheless you have me this weekend.

This will be my second time supporting and I thoroughly enjoyed the first, 2003 final.

Go.... errr... Red Roses?

I'm not going to jump any more horses, after Scotland lost I moved on to France, now they've gone I'm neutral, I just want really good games.

That's where I am too.

[Ovals]

Why do people think wet and windy weather will benefit England, the team with worse ball skills?

Given that we're clearly not as good as SA, anything that makes it a bit more of a lottery; is a possible benefit to us.

I can't remember the last time the term "lottery" was actually valid when it comes to bad weather and top level rugby. Bad weather stresses your skills and decision making more. Unless it's apocalyptic, the primary cause of anything happening isn't bad weather, it's player mistakes. Players with higher skill levels make fewer mistakes in bad weather.

It's why NZ were practically untouchable in wet conditions for so long. It's the Schumacher effect. It really shows the gulf in class.

SA are not a side that play a singular style of rugby that will be badly impacted by the weather. They are more likely to beat the shit out of us in heavy rain, because we'll make more mistakes, struggle more to deal with their kicking game and their scrum, and have even fewer routes to the tryline.

Well, it is, at least, another variable - and England players should be well accustomed to playing in wet conditions. TBH I doubt it will make much diference against a side like SA.

[Slick]

Given that we're clearly not as good as SA, anything that makes it a bit more of a lottery; is a possible benefit to us.

I can't remember the last time the term "lottery" was actually valid when it comes to bad weather and top level rugby. Bad weather stresses your skills and decision making more. Unless it's apocalyptic, the primary cause of anything happening isn't bad weather, it's player mistakes. Players with higher skill levels make fewer mistakes in bad weather.

It's why NZ were practically untouchable in wet conditions for so long. It's the Schumacher effect. It really shows the gulf in class.

SA are not a side that play a singular style of rugby that will be badly impacted by the weather. They are more likely to beat the shit out of us in heavy rain, because we'll make more mistakes, struggle more to deal with their kicking game and their scrum, and have even fewer routes to the tryline.

Well, it is, at least, another variable - and England players should be well accustomed to playing in wet conditions. TBH I doubt it will make much diference against a side like SA.

Remember Saffer teams play half their games in Europe in winter now. I can also recall a couple URC games in SA where it was monsoon like.

[Paddington Bear]

Given that we're clearly not as good as SA, anything that makes it a bit more of a lottery; is a possible benefit to us.

I can't remember the last time the term "lottery" was actually valid when it comes to bad weather and top level rugby. Bad weather stresses your skills and decision making more. Unless it's apocalyptic, the primary cause of anything happening isn't bad weather, it's player mistakes. Players with higher skill levels make fewer mistakes in bad weather.

It's why NZ were practically untouchable in wet conditions for so long. It's the Schumacher effect. It really shows the gulf in class.

SA are not a side that play a singular style of rugby that will be badly impacted by the weather. They are more likely to beat the shit out of us in heavy rain, because we'll make more mistakes, struggle more to deal with their kicking game and their scrum, and have even fewer routes to the tryline.

Well, it is, at least, another variable - and England players should be well accustomed to playing in wet conditions. TBH I doubt it will make much diference against a side like SA.

I think we tend to overestimate how often we play in the rain in England

[Sandstorm]

I love these types of videos.

Throws the ball direct to DDA running in from 12 channel

[OomStruisbaai]

After a week of internal deliberations I'm coming out for England this weekend. The caveat is that if they do win they get smashed by NZ in the final, but nonetheless you have me this weekend.

This will be my second time supporting and I thoroughly enjoyed the first, 2003 final.

Go.... errr... Red Roses?

I'm not going to jump any more horses, after Scotland lost I moved on to France, now they've gone I'm neutral, I just want really good games.

That's where I am too.

We are watching you. Slick is our URC broer, We provide Embra a stream of Saffers even a coach. That's the thank you we get? Fuck broer we want to keep it in the family. I hope you burn that skirt while ironing.

[SaintK]

I'm not going to jump any more horses, after Scotland lost I moved on to France, now they've gone I'm neutral, I just want really good games.

That's where I am too.

We are watching you. Slick is our URC broer, We provide Embra a stream of Saffers even a coach. That's the thank you we get? Fuck broer we want to keep it in the family. I hope you burn that skirt while ironing.

[Ovals]

Oddly, I'm not at all nervous about the SF v SA. It's because I don't really think we've got much of a chance - I tend to get much more nevous when I think we should win or are in with a really good shout. Pretty relaxed about this one. That could change if we're still in the hunt at HT..............

[Gumboot]

Oddly, I'm not at all nervous about the SF v SA. It's because I don't really think we've got much of a chance - I tend to get much more nevous when I think we should win or are in with a really good shout. Pretty relaxed about this one. That could change if we're still in the hunt at HT..............

This is how I felt when we played Ireland last week - no expectation of victory, so no nerves. Very different this week. Next week? Just glad to be there, tbh.

[el capitan]

Totally relaxed, at one point getting out of the group stage looked a bit of an ask. We're into it being a banter run now, and anything else happening will be funny as fuck.

Think England are going to have to do something to steal a win. Eg. back to the Argie game tactics of drop goals whenever we get in the oppositions half. Can't see us getting any joy taking them on in a tight power game battle, and we can rule running rugby out.

[_Os_]

Some Sir Clive pearls.

England should have a drop goal target of five and look at doing at least one in the first 15 minutes. They must also take the three points each time they are on offer if they win a penalty.

Do not go to the corner and test the Bok lineout and maul defence.

England’s main attacking threat can come from cross-kicks to Steward. In Cheslin Kolbe and Kurt-Lee Arendse, the Springboks have phenomenal pace. But they are small physically and if Farrell can kick to Steward and put him in a one-on-one contest with either, there should be only one result.

Kick ball onto Kolbe and Arendse. Literally nothing can go wrong, there is only one result.

The final approach England need to employ is to hit the ball up through midfield with Manu Tuilagi. They then need to go back to the short side. It’s one or two passes and then back the other way. South Africa’s blitz defence is incredible. If England look to go wide, they will get smashed back — especially if the ball is slow.

Carry directly into de Allende/Kriel and any lurking Bok backrows. Exactly what the Bok defence definitely isn't set up to handle.

England’s players can stand up to the South Africans. The Boks rely on playing the game on their terms. France were unrecognisable in the second half of their quarter-final. They were dragged into South Africa’s game plan and found it impossible to inject the pace they love.

Springboks only have scrums and lineouts, even when they didn't have them against France because France refused to kick the ball out or concede scrums. Nevertheless the Boks only win with scrums and lineouts, so avoid those aspects and don't try to win there.

I believe South Africa aren’t as fit as England, even with their replacements. The Springboks look to slow the game down at every opportunity. They rotate their side and their backroom team are constantly on the field bringing on water.
England need to counter that. When South Africa look to slow things down, England need to speed it up. At line-outs and scrums, get the ball gone.

The Springboks are unfit (I've been hearing this for two decades at this point, never heard it before being exposed to foreign media). The Boks are very slow arthritis stricken donkeys. Best to get the game moving as fast as possible to expose this.


Hilarious. If England are going to do something in this match, a good starting point would be doing the opposite of what Sir Clive advises.

I await Dawson.

[Gumboot]

Is fitness even an issue when you bring on the Bomb Squad after 50 minutes?

[_Os_]

Is fitness even an issue when you bring on the Bomb Squad after 50 minutes?

It's all just very odd. Looking at the tools England have, the obvious tactic would be to kick deep for territory (like France), try and use the lineout and the maul (France scored twice off the lineout). If anything slow the game down and make a point of trying to win the set piece. Move the ball wide when there's open space (like Ireland did in the pool game). I'll give Sir Clive some credit, he identified drop goals and scoring whenever there's a chance (both the Boks and NZ in their quarters converted all their chances, whilst Ireland and France had more, they converted less into points). A 30+ phase buildup isn't required, just convert the points in <3 phases as fast as possible (NZ and the Boks both did this), drop goal is a good way to do it. Borthwick hasn't been coach for long, realistically something quite limited that uses all England's strong points is the way to go, if that looks like the way the game is developing then I would be worried. If England aren't winning on territory and the game is quite fast paced then I'm happier, Reinach/Libbok/Kolbe/Arendse/Willemse are all in the backline, the Boks don't want a slow grind.

The term "bomb squad" was just a morale boosting name the players stuck on the bench came up with in 2019 ("we're not bench players, we're the bomb squad everyone wants to be part of!" type thing, some truth in it too, better to be on the bench on tour than an unselected player), it then grew a life of its own. The original bomb squad was 6/2 with bench forwards around as good as the starters. For this match it's a 5/3 split, maybe that is a bomb squad, but it's also just a bench. Loads of teams use 6/2 now, France did but their bench players were maybe not as impactful (something Sir Clive does not consider).

[Jethro]

Oddly, I'm not at all nervous about the SF v SA. It's because I don't really think we've got much of a chance - I tend to get much more nevous when I think we should win or are in with a really good shout. Pretty relaxed about this one. That could change if we're still in the hunt at HT..............

This is how I felt when we played Ireland last week - no expectation of victory, so no nerves. Very different this week. Next week? Just glad to be there, tbh.

Same, didn't expect the ABs to fire against Ireland, but am now expecting it against whoever we are facing in the final

[OomStruisbaai]

Oddly, I'm not at all nervous about the SF v SA. It's because I don't really think we've got much of a chance - I tend to get much more nevous when I think we should win or are in with a really good shout. Pretty relaxed about this one. That could change if we're still in the hunt at HT..............

This is how I felt when we played Ireland last week - no expectation of victory, so no nerves. Very different this week. Next week? Just glad to be there, tbh.

Same, didn't expect the ABs to fire against Ireland, but am now expecting it against whoever we are facing in the final

Same here don't expect to win against England

[_Os_]

Same here don't expect to win against England

You don't expect the Boks to beat England? Are you a real Bok supporter? Are you even a real Oom?

[OomStruisbaai]

Same here don't expect to win against England

You don't expect the Boks to beat England? Are you a real Bok supporter? Are you even a real Oom?

That's the way I always am. Even when I played.

The expectation is there, its my preparation for the worse.

Big mouth and arrogance before kick off is a kak attitude, bet you will flounce like Torq.

[_Os_]

Same here don't expect to win against England

You don't expect the Boks to beat England? Are you a real Bok supporter? Are you even a real Oom?

That's the way I always am. Even when I played.

The expectation is there, its my preparation for the worse.

Big mouth and arrogance before kick off is a kak attitude, bet you will flounce like Torq.

I'm like Naas, "Boks by 10" is the starting position.

[Margin__Walker]

Is fitness even an issue when you bring on the Bomb Squad after 50 minutes?

It's all just very odd. Looking at the tools England have, the obvious tactic would be to kick deep for territory (like France), try and use the lineout and the maul (France scored twice off the lineout). If anything slow the game down and make a point of trying to win the set piece. Move the ball wide when there's open space (like Ireland did in the pool game). I'll give Sir Clive some credit, he identified drop goals and scoring whenever there's a chance (both the Boks and NZ in their quarters converted all their chances, whilst Ireland and France had more, they converted less into points). A 30+ phase buildup isn't required, just convert the points in <3 phases as fast as possible (NZ and the Boks both did this), drop goal is a good way to do it. Borthwick hasn't been coach for long, realistically something quite limited that uses all England's strong points is the way to go, if that looks like the way the game is developing then I would be worried. If England aren't winning on territory and the game is quite fast paced then I'm happier, Reinach/Libbok/Kolbe/Arendse/Willemse are all in the backline, the Boks don't want a slow grind.

The term "bomb squad" was just a morale boosting name the players stuck on the bench came up with in 2019 ("we're not bench players, we're the bomb squad everyone wants to be part of!" type thing, some truth in it too, better to be on the bench on tour than an unselected player), it then grew a life of its own. The original bomb squad was 6/2 with bench forwards around as good as the starters. For this match it's a 5/3 split, maybe that is a bomb squad, but it's also just a bench. Loads of teams use 6/2 now, France did but their bench players were maybe not as impactful (something Sir Clive does not consider).

fwiw Clive hasn't had job in rugby for almost 20 years

He gets wheeled out a couple of times a year to be a studio pundit for ITV and write a column for the Mail, as he's one of the few people casual fans will recognise. He doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who even watches rugby outside of that.

[Punter15]

This is how I felt when we played Ireland last week - no expectation of victory, so no nerves. Very different this week. Next week? Just glad to be there, tbh.

Same, didn't expect the ABs to fire against Ireland, but am now expecting it against whoever we are facing in the final

Same here don't expect to win against England

Hang on Oom, you got disowned a few weeks ago and adopted by us Scots. We definitely expect to beat England, so a bit less of that thank you.

Also, when will you be available for Embra?

[Gumboot]

The 6-2 thing was a novelty for a while, but nobody cares about the bench configuration any more as long as it works. ALB covering the midfield and wings is a bit unorthodox, but it works.

[_Os_]

fwiw Clive hasn't had job in rugby for almost 20 years

He gets wheeled out a couple of times a year to be a studio pundit for ITV and write a column for the Mail, as he's one of the few people casual fans will recognise. He doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who even watches rugby outside of that.

With him it goes past "this is amusing" into "this is bizarre".

Flatman has been good. His RWC preview when he picked the Boks to win it went mini viral in SA. Rare for an '03 vintage (actually a bit before '03 in his case) England player that does media work to say much good about us. Actually seems to have kept his knowledge current and doesn't have a massive ego.

[Margin__Walker]

fwiw Clive hasn't had job in rugby for almost 20 years

He gets wheeled out a couple of times a year to be a studio pundit for ITV and write a column for the Mail, as he's one of the few people casual fans will recognise. He doesn't strike me as the kind of bloke who even watches rugby outside of that.

With him it goes past "this is amusing" into "this is bizarre".

Flatman has been good. His RWC preview when he picked the Boks to win it went mini viral in SA. Rare for an '03 vintage (actually a bit before '03 in his case) England player that does media work to say much good about us. Actually seems to have kept his knowledge current and doesn't have a massive ego.

Yeah, Flatman actually does this as a full time job, which helps. Night and day in terms of knowledge of the game as it's played now.

[Gumboot]

We're overdue a real upset. England by 2.

[OomStruisbaai]

Same, didn't expect the ABs to fire against Ireland, but am now expecting it against whoever we are facing in the final

Same here don't expect to win against England

Hang on Oom, you got disowned a few weeks ago and adopted by us Scots. We definitely expect to beat England, so a bit less of that thank you.

Also, when will you be available for Embra?

Embra is my Scottish team. Unfortunately they pla the same time as the Stormers but they will put the Dragons to the sword. Slick make my feel dirty now.

[C69]

We're overdue a real upset. England by 2.

SA by 20 in first gear

[OomStruisbaai]

You don't expect the Boks to beat England? Are you a real Bok supporter? Are you even a real Oom?

That's the way I always am. Even when I played.

The expectation is there, its my preparation for the worse.

Big mouth and arrogance before kick off is a kak attitude, bet you will flounce like Torq.

I'm like Naas, "Boks by 10" is the starting position.

Naas is a doos. Please don't flounce Ox, we like your Filofaxes..

[petej]

Both teams are fit. With rugby players you are balancing power and endurance. England in 2015 depowered themselves to increase their endurance based on wanting to play a high tempo game which was not clever as they weren't playing high tempo flowing rugby for the years leading up to it.

[SaintK]

We're overdue a real upset. England by 2.

SA by 20 in first gear

About right!

[Slick]

Same here don't expect to win against England

Hang on Oom, you got disowned a few weeks ago and adopted by us Scots. We definitely expect to beat England, so a bit less of that thank you.

Also, when will you be available for Embra?

Embra is my Scottish team. Unfortunately they pla the same time as the Stormers but they will put the Dragons to the sword. Slick make my feel dirty now.

What have I done!

[OomStruisbaai]

Hang on Oom, you got disowned a few weeks ago and adopted by us Scots. We definitely expect to beat England, so a bit less of that thank you.

Also, when will you be available for Embra?

Embra is my Scottish team. Unfortunately they pla the same time as the Stormers but they will put the Dragons to the sword. Slick make my feel dirty now.

What have I done!

You support England like Gatland

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F83sm-fXMAA ... name=large

[_Os_]

That's the way I always am. Even when I played.

The expectation is there, its my preparation for the worse.

Big mouth and arrogance before kick off is a kak attitude, bet you will flounce like Torq.

I'm like Naas, "Boks by 10" is the starting position.

Naas is a doos. Please don't flounce Ox, we like your Filofaxes..

Every time in the studio: "What do you think the score will be against the All Blacks?" Naas "I'm not sure Nic, it's a difficult match, maybe Boks by 10", "The score against Fiji?" Naas "should be tough, they're physical, Boks by 10", "Japan?" Naas "should be easy, Boks by 10", "Wales?" Naas "they're always tough on defence and don't give up, Boks by 10".

Naas is a legend.

[Paddington Bear]

Saffer psyche is fascinating. So much on here and on social media taking Sir Clive/the Walrus at face value as if they speak for English rugby (Jones again is Welsh), so much about ‘revenge’ for 2019 as if we’ve sat for four years nursing a grudge (we haven’t we just got beaten by a better team). Two nations talking past each other. Anyway, England by 8*















*wickets

[_Os_]

Saffer psyche is fascinating. So much on here and on social media taking Sir Clive/the Walrus at face value as if they speak for English rugby (Jones again is Welsh), so much about ‘revenge’ for 2019 as if we’ve sat for four years nursing a grudge (we haven’t we just got beaten by a better team). Two nations talking past each other. Anyway, England by 8*

*wickets

Sir Clive and Walrus are both like cartoon characters. I'm not sure anyone is taking them seriously, past players always get taken quite seriously by us though (most wouldn't be aware Sir Clive was a test player). Some definitely have taken the Tindall comments seriously. for me it's part of the fun of playing England in a big match. I'll buy all the tabloids and have a hate read of the page or two rugby gets before the match for sure.

I've watched all the Springbok press conferences. The stuff about a grudge, I reckon comes directly from Rassie's imagination (at around 11 minutes and 24 minutes), "I think they will have beef with us". It's underrated how good Rassie is at the emotional aspects, looks like he's trying to motivate his men.

[Paddington Bear]

Saffer psyche is fascinating. So much on here and on social media taking Sir Clive/the Walrus at face value as if they speak for English rugby (Jones again is Welsh), so much about ‘revenge’ for 2019 as if we’ve sat for four years nursing a grudge (we haven’t we just got beaten by a better team). Two nations talking past each other. Anyway, England by 8*

*wickets

Sir Clive and Walrus are both like cartoon characters. I'm not sure anyone is taking them seriously, past players always get taken quite seriously by us though (most wouldn't be aware Sir Clive was a test player). Some definitely have taken the Tindall comments seriously. for me it's part of the fun of playing England in a big match. I'll buy all the tabloids and have a hate read of the page or two rugby gets before the match for sure.

I've watched Springbok press conferences. The stuff about a grudge, I reckon comes directly from Rassie's imagination (at around 11 minutes and 24 minutes), "I think they will have beef with us". It's underrated how good Rassie is at the emotional aspects, looks like he's trying to motivate his men.

Since he’s calmed down on being a tool it’s been easier to appreciate Rassie for the excellent coach he is

[ScarfaceClaw]

The important question is will there be a red card this evening?

[_Os_]

The important question is will there be a red card this evening?

Who are you supporting in this match? Your two favourite teams, you have to pick one.

[ScarfaceClaw]

The important question is will there be a red card this evening?

Who are you supporting in this match? Your two favourite teams, you have to pick one.

It’s not England.