Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Gumboot]

There is no god, just a shitload of desperate people fighting over different imaginary gods.

[SaintK]

Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.

I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.

David Lammy addressing a Labour Friends of Palestine event tonight......

......and also addressed a Friends of Israel event afterwards
What's your point?

[Sandstorm]

Fiends of Israel event

[SaintK]

Fiends of Israel event

Bloody fat fingers on the phone!!

[David in Gwent]

I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.

David Lammy addressing a Labour Friends of Palestine event tonight......

......and also addressed a Fiends of Israel event afterwards
What's your point?

Ah, that's good news, the potential FS should be balanced. Do you have a link as there is only one for the FoP event and I know some people who will be pleased he went to both. Thanks.

[SaintK]

David Lammy addressing a Labour Friends of Palestine event tonight......

......and also addressed a Fiends of Israel event afterwards
What's your point?

Ah, that's good news, the potential FS should be balanced. Do you have a link as there is only one for the FoP event and I know some people who will be pleased he went to both. Thanks.

I'm sure you could find it yourself if you bothered.
About half way downunder the Labour and Israel section
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lo ... -braces/

[Rhubarb & Custard]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

If 80,001 young lefties really wanted to get involved in politics this would be a sensible starting point

[Rhubarb & Custard]

......and also addressed a Fiends of Israel event afterwards
What's your point?

Ah, that's good news, the potential FS should be balanced. Do you have a link as there is only one for the FoP event and I know some people who will be pleased he went to both. Thanks.

I'm sure you could find it yourself if you bothered.
About half way downunder the Labour and Israel section
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/lo ... -braces/

What is the problem with there being a Friends of 'anyone' group? And even if someone has a problem with that why is just one party being singled out when they all have them?

[I like neeps]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

If 80,001 young lefties really wanted to get involved in politics this would be a sensible starting point

Which Tory politician would a young leftie pay money to vote to become Tory leader?

[Sandstorm]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

If 80,001 young lefties really wanted to get involved in politics this would be a sensible starting point

Which Tory politician would a young leftie pay money to vote to become Tory leader?

Stormzy

[sockwithaticket]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

If 80,001 young lefties really wanted to get involved in politics this would be a sensible starting point

Which Tory politician would a young leftie pay money to vote to become Tory leader?

Well, Tories joined Labour and voted Corbyn because they viewed him as being unelectable. Following the same logic, perhaps try and bring Truss back? Although UK voters are often so incredibly disappointing in their choices, I don't think you would want to play that game in the Tory party lest you end up with the loon actually holding power again.

[Paddington Bear]

If 80,001 young lefties really wanted to get involved in politics this would be a sensible starting point

Which Tory politician would a young leftie pay money to vote to become Tory leader?

Well, Tories joined Labour and voted Corbyn because they viewed him as being unelectable. Following the same logic, perhaps try and bring Truss back? Although UK voters are often so incredibly disappointing in their choices, I don't think you would want to play that game in the Tory party lest you end up with the loon actually holding power again.

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

[I like neeps]

Which Tory politician would a young leftie pay money to vote to become Tory leader?

Well, Tories joined Labour and voted Corbyn because they viewed him as being unelectable. Following the same logic, perhaps try and bring Truss back? Although UK voters are often so incredibly disappointing in their choices, I don't think you would want to play that game in the Tory party lest you end up with the loon actually holding power again.

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Well, Tories joined Labour and voted Corbyn because they viewed him as being unelectable. Following the same logic, perhaps try and bring Truss back? Although UK voters are often so incredibly disappointing in their choices, I don't think you would want to play that game in the Tory party lest you end up with the loon actually holding power again.

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

Truss isn't a free market fundamentalist, or at least with most of the grouping one might think of as free market advocates only in certain ways

And yes the tricky think for any lefties joining the Tories is how do you get a more electable candidate on the list, so you'd be voting least worst or least electable. Tricky in the short term, but longer term get more of the constituency candidates you want, eventually they will be picking the shortlist.

[I like neeps]

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

Truss isn't a free market fundamentalist, or at least with most of the grouping one might think of as free market advocates only in certain ways

And yes the tricky think for any lefties joining the Tories is how do you get a more electable candidate on the list, so you'd be voting least worst or least electable. Tricky in the short term, but longer term get more of the constituency candidates you want, eventually they will be picking the shortlist.

So you'd vote a centre-right/centrist onto the link and have to persuade a load of people to do likewise? It doesn't sound like something "the left" should bother with. It sounds like something moderate Tories should do instead have a party shaped to their values.

Corbyn didn't get elected leader because of Tories. He got elected leader because he inspired left wing people to join the party and vote for him. Something that happened when he was leader the membership increased. Obviously, it was a disaster. But it was never a Tory plot. A leftie plot to elect Tory politicians is equally stupid.

[Paddington Bear]

Well, Tories joined Labour and voted Corbyn because they viewed him as being unelectable. Following the same logic, perhaps try and bring Truss back? Although UK voters are often so incredibly disappointing in their choices, I don't think you would want to play that game in the Tory party lest you end up with the loon actually holding power again.

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

I wasn’t suggesting lefties would vote for them, I’m suggesting they’re going to tack towards being a nationalist party

[Rhubarb & Custard]

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

Truss isn't a free market fundamentalist, or at least with most of the grouping one might think of as free market advocates only in certain ways

And yes the tricky think for any lefties joining the Tories is how do you get a more electable candidate on the list, so you'd be voting least worst or least electable. Tricky in the short term, but longer term get more of the constituency candidates you want, eventually they will be picking the shortlist.

So you'd vote a centre-right/centrist onto the link and have to persuade a load of people to do likewise? It doesn't sound like something "the left" should bother with. It sounds like something moderate Tories should do instead have a party shaped to their values.

Corbyn didn't get elected leader because of Tories. He got elected leader because he inspired left wing people to join the party and vote for him. Something that happened when he was leader the membership increased. Obviously, it was a disaster. But it was never a Tory plot. A leftie plot to elect Tory politicians is equally stupid.

If they go at it for 20-30 years, still more so if they move in increments, it'd be dashed hard to oppose. But I doubt there'd be the willingness to go for a slow grind, not when posting a meme is the preferred model of action

[I like neeps]

As Corbyn showed, the average voter and the ‘centre ground’ are two very different things. Not an original observation but a nationalist party that promises to ‘fund the NHS and hang the paedos’ would be pretty overwhelmingly popular. With 80,000 odd reasonably committed people you can take over the Tory party, marginalise the libertarians to the point of extinction and take it in any direction you want. Wouldn’t shock me if this happens

I just don't think you can. You can have the free market fundamentalists e.g. Truss, you can have the anti minority rights in Braverman, you can have the "moderniser" Badenoch, or the stand up and fight holds a sword well airhead Penny Mordaunt.

Why would a young leftie vote for any of them? It's not like you have just one unelectable clown. And whoever it is will do well in opposition because they'll have the red tops and the telegraph opposing everything Labour do so boosting them Relentless anyway.

I wasn’t suggesting lefties would vote for them, I’m suggesting they’re going to tack towards being a nationalist party

Yeah I'm sure that a national conservative will be elected leader but that's just the modern right these days.

[_Os_]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

I still doubt he has a path. Farage would have to join the conservative party, convince his fans to do so (I don't think he has enough who would pay to wait for him to take over the Tories), wait for a bye election, be selected by the local association (not very open to entryism I presume but could be wrong), the seat to be a high %™Brexit voting seat who still care about the issue when Brexit isn't a talking point anymore and regret for Brexit is increasing, then either try and unseat the leader and rely on those new faragist members to elect him leader. Also he'd have to keep his appeal as an anti- establishment firebrand whilst leader of the Tories. Which yes is possible as Johnson has done it but it's not easy. It's just not a viable path to power.

And also, he'd have to want to. He's not really that much of a political mover and shaker to go through all that. He's the firebrand outside the tent, it's not his style. He wants to be as disruptive as possible as a means unto itself.

A lot of this is wrong I suspect, Neeps.

Many BNP (I mention them because their councillors sometimes get busted for being ex-BNP) and UKIP types have already joined the Tories. FPTP creates a two party system (different regions could have different parties, NI has SF/DUP and Scotland SNP/Labour, but it'll always be two), it's inevitable that a lot of people on the right either start out in the Tories or end up there, FPTP forces them together. The right is a lot more united in the UK than the left, and when there is fragmentation (NI and Scotland) often times the left vote goes nationalist, in England part of the Labour vote went BNP/UKIP. Grieve claimed years ago he was ousted because his local branch was subject to entryism from 200 or so UKIPers. Britain First told its members to join the Tories.

Tory MPs are telling journos that their party is being taken over, the membership is now far to the right of the parliamentary party:
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunaks ... r-12975870

By all accounts Farage was mobbed by Tory members at the Tory conference. They couldn't get enough of him.

Farage didn't found UKIP, he wasn't its original leader (that guy quit claiming it had become a racist/fascist BNP type organisation), he only became leader in 2006. He turned it into a Farage party but it didn't start that way. He's already done the entryism trick once before. He enjoys the attention, if he can have a shot at being PM he'll take it just so he can say he's been PM, the same urge is what motivates Johnson/Truss/Sunak (part of the reason they're shit, is they just want the PM role on their CV). It's possible he could take over the Tory party, and if/when he does that he won't give a shit about the absolute mess and total failure he creates.

If his track record is anything to go by, he'll fail so hard his supporters will get the exact opposite of everything they wanted.

[_Os_]

Good news from the Labour conference is it seems that Labour are going to chase the money. Inquiries into HS2's failure and the PPE fraud, with prosecutions for corruption if anything is discovered. The amounts involved in all this aren't small, at the very least it's tens of billions and probably hundreds of billions, if that goes the whole distance a lot of Tories at all levels of the party will be stripped of everything and jailed.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that

I still doubt he has a path. Farage would have to join the conservative party, convince his fans to do so (I don't think he has enough who would pay to wait for him to take over the Tories), wait for a bye election, be selected by the local association (not very open to entryism I presume but could be wrong), the seat to be a high %™Brexit voting seat who still care about the issue when Brexit isn't a talking point anymore and regret for Brexit is increasing, then either try and unseat the leader and rely on those new faragist members to elect him leader. Also he'd have to keep his appeal as an anti- establishment firebrand whilst leader of the Tories. Which yes is possible as Johnson has done it but it's not easy. It's just not a viable path to power.

And also, he'd have to want to. He's not really that much of a political mover and shaker to go through all that. He's the firebrand outside the tent, it's not his style. He wants to be as disruptive as possible as a means unto itself.

A lot of this is wrong I suspect, Neeps.

Many BNP (I mention them because their councillors sometimes get busted for being ex-BNP) and UKIP types have already joined the Tories. FPTP creates a two party system (different regions could have different parties, NI has SF/DUP and Scotland SNP/Labour, but it'll always be two), it's inevitable that a lot of people on the right either start out in the Tories or end up there, FPTP forces them together. The right is a lot more united in the UK than the left, and when there is fragmentation (NI and Scotland) often times the left vote goes nationalist, in England part of the Labour vote went BNP/UKIP. Grieve claimed years ago he was ousted because his local branch was subject to entryism from 200 or so UKIPers. Britain First told its members to join the Tories.

Tory MPs are telling journos that their party is being taken over, the membership is now far to the right of the parliamentary party:
https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunaks ... r-12975870

By all accounts Farage was mobbed by Tory members at the Tory conference. They couldn't get enough of him.

Farage didn't found UKIP, he wasn't its original leader (that guy quit claiming it had become a racist/fascist BNP type organisation), he only became leader in 2006. He turned it into a Farage party but it didn't start that way. He's already done the entryism trick once before. He enjoys the attention, if he can have a shot at being PM he'll take it just so he can say he's been PM, the same urge is what motivates Johnson/Truss/Sunak (part of the reason they're shit, is they just want the PM role on their CV). It's possible he could take over the Tory party, and if/when he does that he won't give a shit about the absolute mess and total failure he creates.

If his track record is anything to go by, he'll fail so hard his supporters will get the exact opposite of everything they wanted.

This is the same for most parties. Membership attracts the extremists. MPs and voters are generally much more moderate than their membership. The difference between voters on right and left on most issues is generally pretty small.

TL;DR - party members are cunts.

[C69]

Good news from the Labour conference is it seems that Labour are going to chase the money. Inquiries into HS2's failure and the PPE fraud, with prosecutions for corruption if anything is discovered. The amounts involved in all this aren't small, at the very least it's tens of billions and probably hundreds of billions, if that goes the whole distance a lot of Tories at all levels of the party will be stripped of everything and jailed.

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

[David in Gwent]

Good news from the Labour conference is it seems that Labour are going to chase the money. Inquiries into HS2's failure and the PPE fraud, with prosecutions for corruption if anything is discovered. The amounts involved in all this aren't small, at the very least it's tens of billions and probably hundreds of billions, if that goes the whole distance a lot of Tories at all levels of the party will be stripped of everything and jailed.

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

I would love to bring people to account for the billions of pounds that vanished in a pile of corruption.

Labour will live or die on their immigration policies, my guess is that they will die and after 4 years we may never see them in power again.

[_Os_]

This is the same for most parties. Membership attracts the extremists. MPs and voters are generally much more moderate than their membership. The difference between voters on right and left on most issues is generally pretty small.

TL;DR - party members are cunts.

Typically yes. But the divergence is quite extreme with the Tories (Labour MPs and members are more closely aligned). On economics Tory MPs (the libertarians) are far to the right of everything else, including Tory members and voters. I was really talking about social issues, and there members are to the right of Tory MPs, but Tory voters are further to the right than the members, indicating there's room to drift much further to the right.

There's also a talent issue with members. On the right the Tories will get most of the best members to have, then as things stand Reform UK, and by the time you're deep into the territory of the English Democrats you're into the barely literate bottom feeders. If the Tories then decide "we should alienate our members and get these ex-BNP/ex-UKIP/Britain First people in", it's the same thing as choosing worse talent. There's only so many people that want to be party members, many of the people below the top tier are those no party should want or need.

This is from 2020:





https://www.qmul.ac.uk/mei/news-and-opi ... bale-.html

[C69]

Good news from the Labour conference is it seems that Labour are going to chase the money. Inquiries into HS2's failure and the PPE fraud, with prosecutions for corruption if anything is discovered. The amounts involved in all this aren't small, at the very least it's tens of billions and probably hundreds of billions, if that goes the whole distance a lot of Tories at all levels of the party will be stripped of everything and jailed.

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

I would love to bring people to account for the billions of pounds that vanished in a pile of corruption.

Labour will live or die on their immigration policies, my guess is that they will die and after 4 years we may never see them in power again.

Do you think they will fail as miserably as the Tories have in the last 13 years?
Now that would be some incredible feat

[David in Gwent]

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

I would love to bring people to account for the billions of pounds that vanished in a pile of corruption.

Labour will live or die on their immigration policies, my guess is that they will die and after 4 years we may never see them in power again.

Do you think they will fail as miserably as the Tories have in the last 13 years?
Now that would be some incredible feat

Totally agree, it's been a shambles. However, I think Labour have it in them to make things worse, I really do. I guess we'll see.

[Camroc2]

Good news from the Labour conference is it seems that Labour are going to chase the money. Inquiries into HS2's failure and the PPE fraud, with prosecutions for corruption if anything is discovered. The amounts involved in all this aren't small, at the very least it's tens of billions and probably hundreds of billions, if that goes the whole distance a lot of Tories at all levels of the party will be stripped of everything and jailed.

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

If I'd ripped off the UK government for tens of millions of pounds, the money would have gone offshore in double quick time, and I'd have purchased a condo in Dubai (you never know when you might need it).

[Camroc2]

This is a massive vote winner.
I suspect a few corrupt politicians are shitting themselves even a few former ministers

I would love to bring people to account for the billions of pounds that vanished in a pile of corruption.

Labour will live or die on their immigration policies, my guess is that they will die and after 4 years we may never see them in power again.

Do you think they will fail as miserably as the Tories have in the last 13 years?
Now that would be some incredible feat

Just as sometimes a government can find itself in a virtuous circle (things always get better no matter government intervention), they can also find themselves sometimes in a vicious circle(things always get worse no matter what government intervention). Labour may end up going into government during just such a vicious circle.

[Tichtheid]

I would love to bring people to account for the billions of pounds that vanished in a pile of corruption.

Labour will live or die on their immigration policies, my guess is that they will die and after 4 years we may never see them in power again.

Do you think they will fail as miserably as the Tories have in the last 13 years?
Now that would be some incredible feat

Just as sometimes a government can find itself in a virtuous circle (things always get better no matter government intervention), they can also find themselves sometimes in a vicious circle(things always get worse no matter what government intervention). Labour may end up going into government during just such a vicious circle.

Labour always have to clear up the mess left behind by the Tories, this time it's a particularly huge mess they've left on the floor - Austerity, Brexit, the not as strong as a lettuce, the corruption etc.

You know that if they get elected in May the media will be toeing the Tory line that the previous 14 years are all down to one month of a Labour government

[Camroc2]

Do you think they will fail as miserably as the Tories have in the last 13 years?
Now that would be some incredible feat

Just as sometimes a government can find itself in a virtuous circle (things always get better no matter government intervention), they can also find themselves sometimes in a vicious circle(things always get worse no matter what government intervention). Labour may end up going into government during just such a vicious circle.

Labour always have to clear up the mess left behind by the Tories, this time it's a particularly huge mess they've left on the floor - Austerity, Brexit, the not as strong as a lettuce, the corruption etc.

You know that if they get elected in May the media will be toeing the Tory line that the previous 14 years are all down to one month of a Labour government

I've no dog in this fight, but if a Labour government want to change the direction of the UK, they will require FPTP to give them a stonking majority, and then use the first six months to three line whip what they want to do through the UK parliament.

Does Starmer have the political balls to do that ?

[Tichtheid]

Just as sometimes a government can find itself in a virtuous circle (things always get better no matter government intervention), they can also find themselves sometimes in a vicious circle(things always get worse no matter what government intervention). Labour may end up going into government during just such a vicious circle.

Labour always have to clear up the mess left behind by the Tories, this time it's a particularly huge mess they've left on the floor - Austerity, Brexit, the not as strong as a lettuce, the corruption etc.

You know that if they get elected in May the media will be toeing the Tory line that the previous 14 years are all down to one month of a Labour government

I've no dog in this fight, but if a Labour government want to change the direction of the UK, they will require FPTP to give them a stonking majority, and then use the first six months to three line whip what they want to do through the UK parliament.

Does Starmer have the political balls to do that ?

I was agreeing with you on the vicious rather than virtuous circle.

I don't doubt Starmer has a firm grip on the party, it's just that everything is such a mess it's going to take a hell of a lot of fixing, it's not in any way shape or form like 1997 where they really could improve things due to the state of the economy.

[SaintK]

Thirteen years of austerity and non-investment?

[tabascoboy]

Thirteen years of austerity and non-investment?

Pffft, Labour/Dinghies/Remoaners fault...

[I like neeps]

Thirteen years of austerity and non-investment?

The headline is hugely misleading as they won't be spared jailed, their sentencing will be delayed.

Court cases of course are already hugely delayed due to austerity. The prison system is broken because we've created universities of crime where rehabilitation is impossible due to staff shortages (and lack of political will).

We're locking up (after considerable delays) dangerous individuals and returning them as more dangerous because they've spent x amount of years not learning any useful skills except other tips on how commit crime.

[Paddington Bear]

Thirteen years of austerity and non-investment?

The headline is hugely misleading as they won't be spared jailed, their sentencing will be delayed.

Court cases of course are already hugely delayed due to austerity. The prison system is broken because we've created universities of crime where rehabilitation is impossible due to staff shortages (and lack of political will).

We're locking up (after considerable delays) dangerous individuals and returning them as more dangerous because they've spent x amount of years not learning any useful skills except other tips on how commit crime.

This is also an advert for giving people longer sentences. Why do we keep trying to rehabilitate violent offenders?

[I like neeps]

Thirteen years of austerity and non-investment?

The headline is hugely misleading as they won't be spared jailed, their sentencing will be delayed.

Court cases of course are already hugely delayed due to austerity. The prison system is broken because we've created universities of crime where rehabilitation is impossible due to staff shortages (and lack of political will).

We're locking up (after considerable delays) dangerous individuals and returning them as more dangerous because they've spent x amount of years not learning any useful skills except other tips on how commit crime.

This is also an advert for giving people longer sentences. Why do we keep trying to rehabilitate violent offenders?

Well you have to let them out eventually. So why not put in place a system where they come out less violent than they went in?

[Paddington Bear]

The headline is hugely misleading as they won't be spared jailed, their sentencing will be delayed.

Court cases of course are already hugely delayed due to austerity. The prison system is broken because we've created universities of crime where rehabilitation is impossible due to staff shortages (and lack of political will).

We're locking up (after considerable delays) dangerous individuals and returning them as more dangerous because they've spent x amount of years not learning any useful skills except other tips on how commit crime.

This is also an advert for giving people longer sentences. Why do we keep trying to rehabilitate violent offenders?

Well you have to let them out eventually. So why not put in place a system where they come out less violent than they went in?

Propensity for violent crime falls off a cliff as people age. For the kind of criminals I’m referencing genuine rehabilitation is generally a pipe dream. The primary purpose of criminal justice is to remove people who commit criminal acts from those who don’t, everything else is secondary

[sockwithaticket]

We might like to try it before dismissing it. Rehabilitation efforts in this country are a way off nations that do it fairly successfully like the Scandis.

[Tichtheid]

We might like to try it before dismissing it. Rehabilitation efforts in this country are a way off nations that do it fairly successfully like the Scandis.

I remember looking this up extensively before, the recidivism rates were consistently lower in countries with the more so-called "liberal" penal systems, where the process is more about rehabilitation rather than punishment

[Sandstorm]

We might like to try it before dismissing it. Rehabilitation efforts in this country are a way off nations that do it fairly successfully like the Scandis.

I remember looking this up extensively before, the recidivism rates were consistently lower in countries with the more so-called "liberal" penal systems, where the process is more about rehabilitation rather than punishment

Rehabilitation sounds way more expensive.