Stop voting for fucking Tories

[C69]

So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

How people vote and their opinions are usually public knowledge.
The councillor was spot on. Good on them.Now fuck off and stop being offended.

[C69]

So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

For MPs, there's a BBC app so you can see how your MP voted on the ceasefire motion

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67438901

Don't confuse him . He seems to hate democracy and will be offended that people can see voting records of elected officials.
FFS what a child

[Ymx]

So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

How people vote and their opinions are usually public knowledge.
The councillor was spot on. Good on them.Now fuck off and stop being offended.

It’s not his fucking vote to call and demand.

[Ymx]

Don’t get me wrong. He has every right to lobby for support.

But to basically demand support else outing someone is pretty dodgy ground.

What a fuckwit

[Tichtheid]

What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

[dpedin]

What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

Agree with Tichtheid that those services such as healthcare, education, water & sewage, defence, transport, etc should all be owned and run by the state for the good of the population as a whole.

Water and sewage is an interesting one - I think England is the only country in the world that has privatized its entire water and sewage system. Other areas who have done similar such as some states in US have a pretty poor track record - just look at the Flint debacle in Michigan. Water and sewage is recognised the world over as a public health issue and this was built on the work by Snow and others in eradicating cholera outbreaks in London. Only England privatized its entire system and we all know how badly that has gone. It now appears that c70% of the water companies are owned by non UK companies including from Hong Kong, China, US, Germany, Australia, etc. It has essentially become a cash cow for investment companies and hedge funds who can extract huge dividends and carry little or no risk to them and if they get fined for shit in rivers they can just put prices up. Water quality in rivers and coasts, water distribution and sewage treatment are all major problems , particularly now that we have left the EU and are beginning to diverge from the EU standards. Water companies are now trailing the need to increase water prices as the Gov push them to increase investment - they take the dividends and customers pay higher prices.

You could say the same for many other 'privatized industries' which are also in effect cash cows for private sector who are guaranteed income streams via subsidies from Gov whilst service quality falls. The only winners with the privatization of key services are big businesses and no doubt the Tory MPs and their mates who will secure well paid seats on boards after they step down. Calll me cynical but then show me I am wrong!

[Slick]

dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

[shaggy]

What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

[shaggy]

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

Agree with Tichtheid that those services such as healthcare, education, water & sewage, defence, transport, etc should all be owned and run by the state for the good of the population as a whole.

Water and sewage is an interesting one - I think England is the only country in the world that has privatized its entire water and sewage system. Other areas who have done similar such as some states in US have a pretty poor track record - just look at the Flint debacle in Michigan. Water and sewage is recognised the world over as a public health issue and this was built on the work by Snow and others in eradicating cholera outbreaks in London. Only England privatized its entire system and we all know how badly that has gone. It now appears that c70% of the water companies are owned by non UK companies including from Hong Kong, China, US, Germany, Australia, etc. It has essentially become a cash cow for investment companies and hedge funds who can extract huge dividends and carry little or no risk to them and if they get fined for shit in rivers they can just put prices up. Water quality in rivers and coasts, water distribution and sewage treatment are all major problems , particularly now that we have left the EU and are beginning to diverge from the EU standards. Water companies are now trailing the need to increase water prices as the Gov push them to increase investment - they take the dividends and customers pay higher prices.

You could say the same for many other 'privatized industries' which are also in effect cash cows for private sector who are guaranteed income streams via subsidies from Gov whilst service quality falls. The only winners with the privatization of key services are big businesses and no doubt the Tory MPs and their mates who will secure well paid seats on boards after they step down. Calll me cynical but then show me I am wrong!

Also written as if all specialist educational settings are big corporates. There are hundreds of small independent ones started by parents and teachers who were frustrated by the system and are now the only place where many children can be placed. They will also be hit by Labours plan to remove the tax advantage, which could either fail those settings or impose greater costs to then local authority which funds the majority of places.

[Tichtheid]

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

It sounds like you have some personal experience with this or some involvement in it, if so you will have more first hand knowledge of it than me, my experience is only though that of neighbours. I was under the impression that the drive to educate SEN kids in the mainstream was good-intentioned because it was thought that would be best for the individuals and the classmates in terms of integration throughout society as they all grow up together.
Of course some children just cannot cope with that and need specialist provision. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from on this because what I would like to see happen is that parents don't have to go away and set up schools themselves, or private companies come in to cover the gaps left in the state sector and that all educational needs are met fully by the state. The ambition should be to build world class schools for everyone.

No one has said the current state of affairs in education started in 2011.

[Biffer]

dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

The reasons are very different though.

[shaggy]

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

It sounds like you have some personal experience with this or some involvement in it, if so you will have more first hand knowledge of it than me, my experience is only though that of neighbours. I was under the impression that the drive to educate SEN kids in the mainstream was good-intentioned because it was thought that would be best for the individuals and the classmates in terms of integration throughout society as they all grow up together.
Of course some children just cannot cope with that and need specialist provision. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from on this because what I would like to see happen is that parents don't have to go away and set up schools themselves, or private companies come in to cover the gaps left in the state sector and that all educational needs are met fully by the state. The ambition should be to build world class schools for everyone.

No one has said the current state of affairs in education started in 2011.

Yes, I have lots of experience in this sector.

The article provided was from someone with new experience of the system and strongly linked it all to the recent government and austerity, which quite frankly is utter bullshit.

It is not best for all SEN children to be within a mainstream setting and any desire to achieve this is laughable. SEN in mainstream is a badly misunderstood topic that is a great headline but scratch the surface and it is a fucking disaster that destroys parents and provides good outcomes for not enough children.

You will never get a solution where the state provides the best solution because politics always gets in the way. The system needs long term continuity and all of my experience shows that this can only really be met in the private sector because a change in Head or dramatic change in funding is insulated against.

You cannot lump special educational needs into a privatisation is greed narrative, but that was mostly dpedin.

[sockwithaticket]

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

It sounds like you have some personal experience with this or some involvement in it, if so you will have more first hand knowledge of it than me, my experience is only though that of neighbours. I was under the impression that the drive to educate SEN kids in the mainstream was good-intentioned because it was thought that would be best for the individuals and the classmates in terms of integration throughout society as they all grow up together.
Of course some children just cannot cope with that and need specialist provision. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from on this because what I would like to see happen is that parents don't have to go away and set up schools themselves, or private companies come in to cover the gaps left in the state sector and that all educational needs are met fully by the state. The ambition should be to build world class schools for everyone.

No one has said the current state of affairs in education started in 2011.

Yes, I have lots of experience in this sector.

The article provided was from someone with new experience of the system and strongly linked it all to the recent government and austerity, which quite frankly is utter bullshit.

It is not best for all SEN children to be within a mainstream setting and any desire to achieve this is laughable. SEN in mainstream is a badly misunderstood topic that is a great headline but scratch the surface and it is a fucking disaster that destroys parents and provides good outcomes for not enough children.

You will never get a solution where the state provides the best solution because politics always gets in the way. The system needs long term continuity and all of my experience shows that this can only really be met in the private sector because a change in Head or dramatic change in funding is insulated against.

You cannot lump special educational needs into a privatisation is greed narrative, but that was mostly dpedin.

From the teaching perspective, trying to mainstream SEN kids was always such a lottery. There were never enough support staff on hand and the requirements for the kids were so varied. Some kids absolutely can be mainstreamed and others really can't, in fact the act of trying to do so often compromises the education that's being offered to the remaining 29 kids in the room.

[Sandstorm]

It's almost like education is the UK is fucked or something.

[C T]

Unbelievable. Two councillors have decided to threaten everyone who doesn’t sign a statement to the PM, demanding a ceasefire, by publishing their names as not signing it.

I agree. He's applying unfair pressure to people to get them to support a ceasefire, needs to be quite rightly called out.

Mind you, I'm not sure this is the only unfair pressure being applied. Plenty of pressure being applied to people protesting for a ceasefire by being labelled as anti-Semitic and being told they are taking part in hate marches.

[Biffer]

Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

[Sandstorm]

Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

[Slick]

dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

[Biffer]

Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

[Biffer]

dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

[Slick]

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

You tricked me. We agree!

I'm literally just about to leave to do an interview with STV on our new local clean water action group - Porty Water Collective.

[Hal Jordan]

Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

[shaggy]

Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

[tabascoboy]

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Talking to him like you would to a 5 year old?

[Camroc2]

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Is that what the crayons were for ?

[Biffer]

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

You tricked me. We agree!

I'm literally just about to leave to do an interview with STV on our new local clean water action group - Porty Water Collective.

I think just fixing incompetence might be achievable. Fixing the profit motive might be rather more difficult.

[Ymx]

Community Notes doing a fine job

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

If the public body proves true incompetence it makes it easier to advance the case for privatisation, so there could be an underling profit motive behind some of the worst of the decision making, no need to overlook the incompetence but they could be corrupt too is all

[shaggy]

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Talking to him like you would to a 5 year old?

No idea, the detail wasn’t provided. I am just providing a simple statement of fact.

[shaggy]

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Is that what the crayons were for ?

Didn’t hear any reference to crayons, just ‘the wheels on the bus go round and round’.

[Uncle fester]

https://jrnl.ie/6227935

Very revealing last comment by Richy Rich.

In July 2020, Sir Patrick wrote that then-chancellor Rishi Sunak said “it is all about handling the scientists, not handling the virus” during an economics meeting, but had not realised Sir Chris Whitty was in the room.

[Ymx]

Don’t get me wrong. He has every right to lobby for support.

But to basically demand support else outing someone is pretty dodgy ground.

What a fuckwit

[Biffer]

Community Notes doing a fine job

Yeah, if you got any views on twitter most of your posts would be flagged as misinformation. Like some of the stuff you've posted here.

[Biffer]

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

[petej]

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

If the public body proves true incompetence it makes it easier to advance the case for privatisation, so there could be an underling profit motive behind some of the worst of the decision making, no need to overlook the incompetence but they could be corrupt too is all

Scottish Water are unlikely to be anywhere near as bad the likes of southern water or wessex water. While undoubtedly they will be shit sometimes the scale will far lower. Spent quite a bit of time around environmental scientists recently who have worked for EA, wessex water, Southern water and dŵr cymru. It was interesting the former EA employee can remember 10 years ago being asked to move water monitoring from downstream to upstream of sewage outlets. While dŵr cymru are not great at least there is more honesty and an interest in improving things. Southern and wessex was soul destroying as they are totally dishonest and couldn't give a shit.

[Paddington Bear]

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

[C69]

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

Over what sort of period has this occurred?
Why has this happened?

[fishfoodie]

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

Which might be alright if you're operating a till in ASDA, or flogging a product, but if you're planning on leading a Country, & approving policies that will effect the lives of tens of millions, then it isn't too much to expect a level of numeracy, & literacy from that person to be able to parse pretty basic presentations from experts, & make an informed decision, or just an honesty that their own skills aren't up to the job, & an acceptance of the judgement of the experts !

But, "Fuck the Experts", wasn't just a rallying cry for Brexit; it was a justification for all manner of policies that were harmful, & were the Tories giving the middle finger to the Electorate.

[sockwithaticket]

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

Over what sort of period has this occurred?
Why has this happened?

Well, from the teaching side of things, by the time a lot of them arrive at secondary school they're already years behind on their literacy attainment and there's no particular effort to catch them up. A year 7 who can barely read and write shouldn't be doing IT lessons where they fuck about on a Macbook for an hour, they should be in concerted interventionist literacy programs. Assuming of course that the support staff exist to facilitate such things (which they do not).

The next big problem is parents. A lot of literacy attainment is achieved at home by parents reading to their kids and encouraging the habit of reading. Those who don't value it/don't like it for whatever reason impart that to their kids and tend to furnish them with counter-productive attitudes to what interventions are available to schools.

I think holding kids back might focus the minds of both parents and children. There's very little point passing them up through the years with their literacy still dragging horribly.

I'm not old enough and wasn't in teaching long enough to begin to suggest where the problem started, but this Tory government's certainly not helped

[Simian]

Community Notes doing a fine job

Can you explain why that’s amusing to you, YMX?

The linked BBC apology is the BBC apologising for describing the Pro-Palestine demonstrations in London as ‘demonstrations in support of Hamas’.

Given your comments on here, I’m surprised you considered their original comment misinformation that they should apologise for, tbh.

A cynical person might think you hadn’t actually read the linked article you highlighted and had assumed it was the BBC having to apologise for being all woke and lefty.