The Scottish Politics Thread

[Blackmac]

Blimey, come home from 3 days without the news to #humzasbinshaggin and Michael Matheson's unlicensed and apparently unprofitable over 11 years, holiday home. WTAF

It did not need to be licensed. It was only this year that the licensing legislation came in, and many, many people struggled to meet the deadlines. It cost us nearly £3,000 to get licensed yet about the only actual change we made was putting up a few more 'fire exit' signs. A huge problem was that the people who had to provide the various certificates were overwhelmed by the demand which made it impossible for owners to make the dates.

Like him, we only have a temporary license as it was such an admin mess by the SNP and local govt that even people like us that started the process months ahead of the deadline only just managed to meet it, only to find it would take several more months to process. There will not be many holiday let owners compliant with the legislation.

We are more than 15 years into owning one holiday let and are only now about to exhaust the carried forward losses and start paying tax. We have made a significant capital profit, but we are still in a genuine overall revenue loss.

This is genuine bollocks ignoring the reality to score political points.

I'm genuinely interested to know the ins and outs of not being able to run a profit on a reasonably successful holiday let. My mate bought a place up there three years ago and has been letting out an annex for the past two, He claims to be killing it financially

[Tichtheid]

According to the article in the Record, who are seemingly delighting in the story, the house can only be rented for a maximum of 17 weeks a year at £870 per week. They also stated that it was a £200K property.

So top whack that would return almost £14.8K.p.a. Depending on size of your mortgage, it would be quite easy to show a year on year loss on that, but be gaining in terms of the market value of the property. Then the property incurs all manner of costs throughout the year, council tax, heating, rates, repairs, probably agency fees etc, just as any property does.

A friend of mine has no pension provision because of the work he does, but he has several btl properties, sometimes he's caned it in because he's had interest only mortgages on a couple of houses, knowing that the market value will increase, but right now he's taking a bit of a hit because of the interest rate rise.

There are a lot of HMOs coming on to the market right now because some btl landlords didn't account for the increase in interest rates, if you are prepared to take the hit then you'll gain in the long run, but it's not a way to turn around a quick profit.

[weegie01]

I'm genuinely interested to know the ins and outs of not being able to run a profit on a reasonably successful holiday let. My mate bought a place up there three years ago and has been letting out an annex for the past two, He claims to be killing it financially.

Actually more like 20 years ago, we bought an old property. The first thing we did was pay off the mortgage on our own house and put it on the rental property so the interest was tax deductible. If we ever needed to borrow anything afterwards, we increased the mortgage and used that. We paid the mortgage off years ago, but the interest on the loans piled onto it contributed to early year losses that have kept rolling forward.

The cottage was old, so we replaced the kitchen, bathroom, roof, floors, windows etc all of which was tax deductible. All of which increased the capital value while contributing to the revenue loss we carried forward year after year. We have done other exterior work with the same effect.

Apart frpm the first couple of years, we made a notional revenue profit. But the carried forward losses from capital works, interest etc meant that we had a pile of losses to carry forward to offset against those revenue profits. We are only just about to exhaust those and overall break even in revenue terms. Meanwhile the capital value of the property has at least quadrupled.

We have made quite a lot of money out of the property, but we have never made a taxable trading profit, it has all been capital. It helps to be married to a tax accountant.

One thing that everyone we know with holiday lets agrees on is that the running costs dwarf your own home. We buy expensive kitchen appliance purely because they can usually be repaired. How people do it is beyond me, but when we used Indesits etc we were going through a dishwasher etc every three or so years as they just got wrecked. Everything gets abused. The dining room table is solid oak. That is so it be sanded down to remove the burn marks where hot pots etc have been put on the wood. There are enough table mats to cover the whole surface, but they get ignored. The overall rate of wear and tear is phenomenal.

[Tichtheid]

It helps to be married to a tax accountant.

Smart move

One thing that everyone we know with holiday lets agrees on is that the running costs dwarf your own home. We buy expensive kitchen appliance purely because they can usually be repaired. How people do it is beyond me, but when we used Indesits etc we were going through a dishwasher etc every three or so years as they just got wrecked. Everything gets abused. The dining room table is solid oak. That is so it be sanded down to remove the burn marks where hot pots etc have been put on the wood. There are enough table mats to cover the whole surface, but they get ignored. The overall rate of wear and tear is phenomenal.

That's terrible, really, it's very entitled point of view that, "oh we've paid our rent so we can treat it as we please"

I bet they wouldn't do it in their own house.

[Paddington Bear]

Blimey, come home from 3 days without the news to #humzasbinshaggin and Michael Matheson's unlicensed and apparently unprofitable over 11 years, holiday home. WTAF

It did not need to be licensed. It was only this year that the licensing legislation came in, and many, many people struggled to meet the deadlines. It cost us nearly £3,000 to get licensed yet about the only actual change we made was putting up a few more 'fire exit' signs. A huge problem was that the people who had to provide the various certificates were overwhelmed by the demand which made it impossible for owners to make the dates.

Like him, we only have a temporary license as it was such an admin mess by the SNP and local govt that even people like us that started the process months ahead of the deadline only just managed to meet it, only to find it would take several more months to process. There will not be many holiday let owners compliant with the legislation.

We are more than 15 years into owning one holiday let and are only now about to exhaust the carried forward losses and start paying tax. We have made a significant capital profit, but we are still in a genuine overall revenue loss.

This is genuine bollocks ignoring the reality to score political points.

I'm genuinely interested to know the ins and outs of not being able to run a profit on a reasonably successful holiday let. My mate bought a place up there three years ago and has been letting out an annex for the past two, He claims to be killing it financially

It always strikes me whenever I visit the highlands just how many places are up for sale, suggesting that a lot of people get themselves in serious financial difficulty from it. No inside knowledge but my guess amounts to it being an exceptionally short season.

[Big D]

Blimey, come home from 3 days without the news to #humzasbinshaggin and Michael Matheson's unlicensed and apparently unprofitable over 11 years, holiday home. WTAF

I thought it was well known he had a bit on the side in Motherwell?

Twitter seems to think she is in Westminster.

Sorry got my Lanarkshire geography muddled. Too far west for me. Airdrie and Shotts is the constituency I was thinking of.

Long long been rumoured that they were having an affair. Now whether or not private lives of MPs should be discussed in public is up for debate but could be embarrassing on several fronts if true.

[Blackmac]

I'm genuinely interested to know the ins and outs of not being able to run a profit on a reasonably successful holiday let. My mate bought a place up there three years ago and has been letting out an annex for the past two, He claims to be killing it financially.

Actually more like 20 years ago, we bought an old property. The first thing we did was pay off the mortgage on our own house and put it on the rental property so the interest was tax deductible. If we ever needed to borrow anything afterwards, we increased the mortgage and used that. We paid the mortgage off years ago, but the interest on the loans piled onto it contributed to early year losses that have kept rolling forward.

The cottage was old, so we replaced the kitchen, bathroom, roof, floors, windows etc all of which was tax deductible. All of which increased the capital value while contributing to the revenue loss we carried forward year after year. We have done other exterior work with the same effect.

Apart frpm the first couple of years, we made a notional revenue profit. But the carried forward losses from capital works, interest etc meant that we had a pile of losses to carry forward to offset against those revenue profits. We are only just about to exhaust those and overall break even in revenue terms. Meanwhile the capital value of the property has at least quadrupled.

We have made quite a lot of money out of the property, but we have never made a taxable trading profit, it has all been capital. It helps to be married to a tax accountant.

One thing that everyone we know with holiday lets agrees on is that the running costs dwarf your own home. We buy expensive kitchen appliance purely because they can usually be repaired. How people do it is beyond me, but when we used Indesits etc we were going through a dishwasher etc every three or so years as they just got wrecked. Everything gets abused. The dining room table is solid oak. That is so it be sanded down to remove the burn marks where hot pots etc have been put on the wood. There are enough table mats to cover the whole surface, but they get ignored. The overall rate of wear and tear is phenomenal.

Am I right in thinking that in layman's terms you have shoved a lot of private debts and expenses onto the rental business. I'm in no way looking to be critical of you mate and totally understand that everything is legal and above board but it's hard to feel sympathetic to people claiming their business isn't making any money if that's what is going on.

Totally agree with you about how badly people abuse holiday accommodation. It's disgraceful. I've never once left any property in worse condition than we found it, in fact usually cleaner. We once accidentally cracked a TV screen and immediately ponied up for a replacement.

[Blackmac]

It did not need to be licensed. It was only this year that the licensing legislation came in, and many, many people struggled to meet the deadlines. It cost us nearly £3,000 to get licensed yet about the only actual change we made was putting up a few more 'fire exit' signs. A huge problem was that the people who had to provide the various certificates were overwhelmed by the demand which made it impossible for owners to make the dates.

Like him, we only have a temporary license as it was such an admin mess by the SNP and local govt that even people like us that started the process months ahead of the deadline only just managed to meet it, only to find it would take several more months to process. There will not be many holiday let owners compliant with the legislation.

We are more than 15 years into owning one holiday let and are only now about to exhaust the carried forward losses and start paying tax. We have made a significant capital profit, but we are still in a genuine overall revenue loss.

This is genuine bollocks ignoring the reality to score political points.

I'm genuinely interested to know the ins and outs of not being able to run a profit on a reasonably successful holiday let. My mate bought a place up there three years ago and has been letting out an annex for the past two, He claims to be killing it financially

It always strikes me whenever I visit the highlands just how many places are up for sale, suggesting that a lot of people get themselves in serious financial difficulty from it. No inside knowledge but my guess amounts to it being an exceptionally short season.

It's not really. The NC500 had changed all that and it is easy to sell the right places all year round. There is actually still a dramatic shortage of decent options. My mate has high occupancy rates all year with hill climbers etc and makes an outrageous amount over the festive season.

[Biffer]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

[Tichtheid]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

I spent years fencing on farms around rural East and West Sussex, Surrey etc. My work partner was a local guy born and brought up near a village called West Chiltington. When it came time for him to buy a place to live he couldn't afford anything in the area because of second homes and holiday lets, so he had to buy a flat in Worthing, which wouldn't be most people's first choice. When I went to work on a farm in the Cotswolds it seemed as bad or worse there in terms of house prices. Norfolk and Sufflok coasts likewise, though not quite as expensive, still there was a shortage of affordable housing for locals, but a lot of short term lets available. I don't know if Air B&B has made this situation worse, but I doubt it's improved it.

So I'm with you to a degree. However, it's certainly the case that tourism is a very important part of the local economy in these places, and, as mentioned, the NC500 has made a difference to the length of the season in the Highlands. The money isn't just being spent on rents, it's being spent in hotels, shops and bars.

first google

The route has driven additional sales and visitors to accommodation, attraction, activity and retail businesses on the route. The NC 500 generated some £22.89m in Gross Value Added (GVA) for the year 2018 and created circa 179 full time equivalent jobs in the North of Scotland.20 Sept 2019

Some kind of medium has to be reached, where the important tourist industry can be supported alongside making housing affordable for locals in order to sustain that long term community, I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure that a market economy fails in this instance

[Biffer]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

I spent years fencing on farms around rural East and West Sussex, Surrey etc. My work partner was a local guy born and brought up near a village called West Chiltington. When it came time for him to buy a place to live he couldn't afford anything in the area because of second homes and holiday lets, so he had to buy a flat in Worthing, which wouldn't be most people's first choice. When I went to work on a farm in the Cotswolds it seemed as bad or worse there in terms of house prices. Norfolk and Sufflok coasts likewise, though not quite as expensive, still there was a shortage of affordable housing for locals, but a lot of short term lets available. I don't know if Air B&B has made this situation worse, but I doubt it's improved it.

So I'm with you to a degree. However, it's certainly the case that tourism is a very important part of the local economy in these places, and, as mentioned, the NC500 has made a difference to the length of the season in the Highlands. The money isn't just being spent on rents, it's being spent in hotels, shops and bars.

first google

The route has driven additional sales and visitors to accommodation, attraction, activity and retail businesses on the route. The NC 500 generated some £22.89m in Gross Value Added (GVA) for the year 2018 and created circa 179 full time equivalent jobs in the North of Scotland.20 Sept 2019

Some kind of medium has to be reached, where the important tourist industry can be supported alongside making housing affordable for locals in order to sustain that long term community, I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'm pretty sure that a market economy fails in this instance

Market economy absolutely fails in this instance because there are capital barriers to entry. So regulation is needed to address that market failure.

[Big D]

The graphs in that thread are concerning. The drop over the last 15 years in Scotland, even allowing for the issues with covid it is a very concerning decline.

[weegie01]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

What I react angrily to are people making sweeping generalisations as if they were universal truths.

We have friends who live in the Cotswolds and other desirable areas in England, as well as Skye and other tourist areas in Scotland. There is no question that is an issue there. But in many others the issue is that there has been a huge reduction in jobs, and without holiday lets and similar the local situation would be even worse. This is true of huge swathes of the Highlands.

My wife was born where we now live. She and her brother reckon there are fewer than half the number of people employed on local farms and estates compared to when they were young. Half the number of people resulting in half the demand for housing. Since you mention teachers, when my wife was young there were two local schools, employing 10 teachers and 4 auxiliary staff. Most of whom lived locally. Now there is one school, two teachers and one auxiliary staff, and many pupils are bussed to a larger school.

My late father in law employed two shepherds. It is a single handed farm now, and the two houses are holiday lets. Without the income from those the farm would not be viable. Far from being a problem, in cases such as this holiday lets have enabled businesses and famillies to survive and stay in the community.

Meanwhile, people like us have invested a huge amount. The quality of the rural housing stock has been poor historically. Holiday lets always need upgrading to meet market expectations, and then need maintained to a high standard. There are more tradesmen in the Aberfeldy area than in the past, and you still struggle to get one. They all say it is the holiday lets and similar that is driving the demand. This is in turn improving the housing stock as well as providing employment.

As an example, the holiday let I mentioned above was for sale for ages. We bought it simply because it was cheap and no one wanted it. As alluded to above, we gutted the place and re-roofed it to bring it up to acceptable standard.

Housing is generally less expensive than elsewhere, and we know a couple of teachers who came to the local school precisely because they could afford a far better house than they would in most other areas.

The reality in swathes of the Highlands is that a lot of traditional employment has gone, and not been replaced by anything. Whilst tourism may have overwhelmed some areas, in others all it has done is soften the impact of other job losses.

BTW. We and others locally have tried letting to people who want to live here rather than holiday lets. Like most others we gave up as it simply was not worth the hassle, especially when we were making less money. There are 4 housing association houses nearby; they have had similar issues. Gradually they have been taken over by retired couples who are happy puttering about in their gardens, walking the dogs etc.

[Slick]

The graphs in that thread are concerning. The drop over the last 15 years in Scotland, even allowing for the issues with covid it is a very concerning decline.

And that is the really worrying point. Jenny Gilruth's statement was pathetic, every country has had Covid to contend with, but it's the trajectory that has been sustained over 15 years that is the massive issue here

[Biffer]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

What I react angrily to are people making sweeping generalisations as if they were universal truths.

We have friends who live in the Cotswolds and other desirable areas in England, as well as Skye and other tourist areas in Scotland. There is no question that is an issue there. But in many others the issue is that there has been a huge reduction in jobs, and without holiday lets and similar the local situation would be even worse. This is true of huge swathes of the Highlands.

My wife was born where we now live. She and her brother reckon there are fewer than half the number of people employed on local farms and estates compared to when they were young. Half the number of people resulting in half the demand for housing. Since you mention teachers, when my wife was young there were two local schools, employing 10 teachers and 4 auxiliary staff. Most of whom lived locally. Now there is one school, two teachers and one auxiliary staff, and many pupils are bussed to a larger school.

My late father in law employed two shepherds. It is a single handed farm now, and the two houses are holiday lets. Without the income from those the farm would not be viable. Far from being a problem, in cases such as this holiday lets have enabled businesses and famillies to survive and stay in the community.

Meanwhile, people like us have invested a huge amount. The quality of the rural housing stock has been poor historically. Holiday lets always need upgrading to meet market expectations, and then need maintained to a high standard. There are more tradesmen in the Aberfeldy area than in the past, and you still struggle to get one. They all say it is the holiday lets and similar that is driving the demand. This is in turn improving the housing stock as well as providing employment.

As an example, the holiday let I mentioned above was for sale for ages. We bought it simply because it was cheap and no one wanted it. As alluded to above, we gutted the place and re-roofed it to bring it up to acceptable standard.

Housing is generally less expensive than elsewhere, and we know a couple of teachers who came to the local school precisely because they could afford a far better house than they would in most other areas.

The reality in swathes of the Highlands is that a lot of traditional employment has gone, and not been replaced by anything. Whilst tourism may have overwhelmed some areas, in others all it has done is soften the impact of other job losses.

BTW. We and others locally have tried letting to people who want to live here rather than holiday lets. Like most others we gave up as it simply was not worth the hassle, especially when we were making less money. There are 4 housing association houses nearby; they have had similar issues. Gradually they have been taken over by retired couples who are happy puttering about in their gardens, walking the dogs etc.

But you’ve taken that property out of the housing stock. It’s eaves a different function now, so you haven’t invested in housing stock.

[weegie01]

Of course all of this ignores that people owning holiday lets deprives the community of housing, making it impossible for young people to stay there, or for teachers, nurses etc that the community needs to find anywhere to leave as part of that community.

I know people this includes will react angrily to it, but you’re part of the problem that’s destroying rural communities.

What I react angrily to are people making sweeping generalisations as if they were universal truths.

We have friends who live in the Cotswolds and other desirable areas in England, as well as Skye and other tourist areas in Scotland. There is no question that is an issue there. But in many others the issue is that there has been a huge reduction in jobs, and without holiday lets and similar the local situation would be even worse. This is true of huge swathes of the Highlands.

My wife was born where we now live. She and her brother reckon there are fewer than half the number of people employed on local farms and estates compared to when they were young. Half the number of people resulting in half the demand for housing. Since you mention teachers, when my wife was young there were two local schools, employing 10 teachers and 4 auxiliary staff. Most of whom lived locally. Now there is one school, two teachers and one auxiliary staff, and many pupils are bussed to a larger school.

My late father in law employed two shepherds. It is a single handed farm now, and the two houses are holiday lets. Without the income from those the farm would not be viable. Far from being a problem, in cases such as this holiday lets have enabled businesses and famillies to survive and stay in the community.

Meanwhile, people like us have invested a huge amount. The quality of the rural housing stock has been poor historically. Holiday lets always need upgrading to meet market expectations, and then need maintained to a high standard. There are more tradesmen in the Aberfeldy area than in the past, and you still struggle to get one. They all say it is the holiday lets and similar that is driving the demand. This is in turn improving the housing stock as well as providing employment.

As an example, the holiday let I mentioned above was for sale for ages. We bought it simply because it was cheap and no one wanted it. As alluded to above, we gutted the place and re-roofed it to bring it up to acceptable standard.

Housing is generally less expensive than elsewhere, and we know a couple of teachers who came to the local school precisely because they could afford a far better house than they would in most other areas.

The reality in swathes of the Highlands is that a lot of traditional employment has gone, and not been replaced by anything. Whilst tourism may have overwhelmed some areas, in others all it has done is soften the impact of other job losses.

BTW. We and others locally have tried letting to people who want to live here rather than holiday lets. Like most others we gave up as it simply was not worth the hassle, especially when we were making less money. There are 4 housing association houses nearby; they have had similar issues. Gradually they have been taken over by retired couples who are happy puttering about in their gardens, walking the dogs etc.

But you’ve taken that property out of the housing stock. It’s eaves a different function now, so you haven’t invested in housing stock.

Demand for housing where we live has fallen due to falling employment. Lack of jobs has hollowed out many rural communities causing people to move away. There is no point having houses available if there are no local jobs to attract people to live in them, so they are used for other purposes. Properties were converted to holiday homes as they were redundant as the traditional jobs the previous occupants had held no longer existed and there were no locals to occupy them.

The property we bought was a case in point. The job that was linked to the property ceased to exist years previously. The owner had been trying for a long time to sell it and was unable to do so due to its poor state. Despite it being cheap, no one wanted it. In the real world property in such poor condition no one wants to buy it isn't part of the housing stock. And in the real world, when we did try to let it to people to live there after we had restored it, it was a waste of time as there were no local jobs to support them. People would take it thinking they could commute to wherever, very quickly find that was impractical, and move away.

Edit.
It also had not been occupied for the previous 20 years. It had been owned by a chap from Leeds who owned the salmon rights and came up for two or three weeks a year.

[Blackmac]

The graphs in that thread are concerning. The drop over the last 15 years in Scotland, even allowing for the issues with covid it is a very concerning decline.

And that is the really worrying point. Jenny Gilruth's statement was pathetic, every country has had Covid to contend with, but it's the trajectory that has been sustained over 15 years that is the massive issue here

It's even getting impossible for them to roll out the "it's not as shit as England" line.
Didn't Sturgeon say she would be judged on education. Just another nail in the coffin of her reputation.

[Biffer]

What I react angrily to are people making sweeping generalisations as if they were universal truths.

We have friends who live in the Cotswolds and other desirable areas in England, as well as Skye and other tourist areas in Scotland. There is no question that is an issue there. But in many others the issue is that there has been a huge reduction in jobs, and without holiday lets and similar the local situation would be even worse. This is true of huge swathes of the Highlands.

My wife was born where we now live. She and her brother reckon there are fewer than half the number of people employed on local farms and estates compared to when they were young. Half the number of people resulting in half the demand for housing. Since you mention teachers, when my wife was young there were two local schools, employing 10 teachers and 4 auxiliary staff. Most of whom lived locally. Now there is one school, two teachers and one auxiliary staff, and many pupils are bussed to a larger school.

My late father in law employed two shepherds. It is a single handed farm now, and the two houses are holiday lets. Without the income from those the farm would not be viable. Far from being a problem, in cases such as this holiday lets have enabled businesses and famillies to survive and stay in the community.

Meanwhile, people like us have invested a huge amount. The quality of the rural housing stock has been poor historically. Holiday lets always need upgrading to meet market expectations, and then need maintained to a high standard. There are more tradesmen in the Aberfeldy area than in the past, and you still struggle to get one. They all say it is the holiday lets and similar that is driving the demand. This is in turn improving the housing stock as well as providing employment.

As an example, the holiday let I mentioned above was for sale for ages. We bought it simply because it was cheap and no one wanted it. As alluded to above, we gutted the place and re-roofed it to bring it up to acceptable standard.

Housing is generally less expensive than elsewhere, and we know a couple of teachers who came to the local school precisely because they could afford a far better house than they would in most other areas.

The reality in swathes of the Highlands is that a lot of traditional employment has gone, and not been replaced by anything. Whilst tourism may have overwhelmed some areas, in others all it has done is soften the impact of other job losses.

BTW. We and others locally have tried letting to people who want to live here rather than holiday lets. Like most others we gave up as it simply was not worth the hassle, especially when we were making less money. There are 4 housing association houses nearby; they have had similar issues. Gradually they have been taken over by retired couples who are happy puttering about in their gardens, walking the dogs etc.

But you’ve taken that property out of the housing stock. It’s eaves a different function now, so you haven’t invested in housing stock.

Demand for housing where we live has fallen due to falling employment. Lack of jobs has hollowed out many rural communities causing people to move away. There is no point having houses available if there are no local jobs to attract people to live in them, so they are used for other purposes. Properties were converted to holiday homes as they were redundant as the traditional jobs the previous occupants had held no longer existed and there were no locals to occupy them.

The property we bought was a case in point. The job that was linked to the property ceased to exist years previously. The owner had been trying for a long time to sell it and was unable to do so due to its poor state. Despite it being cheap, no one wanted it. In the real world property in such poor condition no one wants to buy it isn't part of the housing stock. And in the real world, when we did try to let it to people to live there after we had restored it, it was a waste of time as there were no local jobs to support them. People would take it thinking they could commute to wherever, very quickly find that was impractical, and move away.

Edit.
It also had not been occupied for the previous 20 years. It had been owned by a chap from Leeds who owned the salmon rights and came up for two or three weeks a year.

Ah, so you've not taken anything out of the housing stock. I'm fine with that

But it's not as simple as you portray it either tbh. It's circular, the lack of housing stock also contributes to fewer people in the area working locally. When I was a kid pretty much every teacher in Aberfeldy lived in the town, as did the local doctors, nurses, police, etc. That's not the case now and those are all decent wages taken out of the local community because they can't afford a house there. Fishers closing down was a real kick in the teeth for local employment and I don't think the barites mine employs people like it did either. But it's not right to portray a rise in holiday let's being just because there's no other jobs in the area.

[weegie01]

But it's not as simple as you portray it either tbh. It's circular, the lack of housing stock also contributes to fewer people in the area working locally. When I was a kid pretty much every teacher in Aberfeldy lived in the town, as did the local doctors, nurses, police, etc. That's not the case now and those are all decent wages taken out of the local community because they can't afford a house there. Fishers closing down was a real kick in the teeth for local employment and I don't think the barites mine employs people like it did either. But it's not right to portray a rise in holiday let's being just because there's no other jobs in the area.

So you know Aberfeldy.

So you will know there is no issues with nurses living locally as the hospital closed down. As has the police station, the PKC offices, the banks etc. Decent wages were taken out of the area as the jobs disappeared, not because people could not find homes. There is not a single doctor in the medical practice that works full time as they don't need to and still have a very pleasant standard of living.

Quite clearly there are areas where there are jobs, but a lack of housing caused by holiday lets makes it difficult for people to take those jobs. Clearly nothing is 100% one way or the other, but this is not the case in many other areas where the underlying issue is that the jobs have disappeared, as have a lot of essential services. But it's far easier to blame those nasty 'rich' people than it is to address the hard issues that without underlying jobs and supporting services everything else is pretty much a waste of time.

The number of holiday lets has gone down recently. While I think the level of subsidy given for hydro schemes is excessive, it has brought a lot of money into a number of local farms and estates. Many of whom have re-employed people they would not otherwise have afforded, and then reverted holiday lets to housing for them. Amazingly, if the jobs are there, people take them and since there is a demand for housing it is taken out of holiday lets.

[Biffer]

But it's not as simple as you portray it either tbh. It's circular, the lack of housing stock also contributes to fewer people in the area working locally. When I was a kid pretty much every teacher in Aberfeldy lived in the town, as did the local doctors, nurses, police, etc. That's not the case now and those are all decent wages taken out of the local community because they can't afford a house there. Fishers closing down was a real kick in the teeth for local employment and I don't think the barites mine employs people like it did either. But it's not right to portray a rise in holiday let's being just because there's no other jobs in the area.

So you know Aberfeldy.

So you will know there is no issues with nurses living locally as the hospital closed down. As has the police station, the PKC offices, the banks etc. Decent wages were taken out of the area as the jobs disappeared, not because people could not find homes. There is not a single doctor in the medical practice that works full time as they don't need to and still have a very pleasant standard of living.

Quite clearly there are areas where there are jobs, but a lack of housing caused by holiday lets makes it difficult for people to take those jobs. Clearly nothing is 100% one way or the other, but this is not the case in many other areas where the underlying issue is that the jobs have disappeared, as have a lot of essential services. But it's far easier to blame those nasty 'rich' people than it is to address the hard issues that without underlying jobs and supporting services everything else is pretty much a waste of time.

The number of holiday lets has gone down recently. While I think the level of subsidy given for hydro schemes is excessive, it has brought a lot of money into a number of local farms and estates. Many of whom have re-employed people they would not otherwise have afforded, and then reverted holiday lets to housing for them. Amazingly, if the jobs are there, people take them and since there is a demand for housing it is taken out of holiday lets.

I think you're sticking your head in the sand a bit tbh. You say yourself there are more tradesmen than previously in the area, and having checked there's now a new mine being opened to replace the Foss mine so additional jobs there. Even part time doctors need somewhere to live - how many of them live locally? There are district nurses - how many of them live locally? Again, most teachers at the school, don't live locally. Whilst there's plenty of jobs lost, there are also people with jobs in the local community who can't afford property there. To deny that is to deny the reality. As I said, it's circular and both sides are feeding the other. Personally I'd be taxing second homes to the hilt.

[weegie01]

I think you're sticking your head in the sand a bit tbh. You say yourself there are more tradesmen than previously in the area, and having checked there's now a new mine being opened to replace the Foss mine so additional jobs there. Even part time doctors need somewhere to live - how many of them live locally? There are district nurses - how many of them live locally? Again, most teachers at the school, don't live locally. Whilst there's plenty of jobs lost, there are also people with jobs in the local community who can't afford property there. To deny that is to deny the reality. As I said, it's circular and both sides are feeding the other. Personally I'd be taxing second homes to the hilt.

It is ironic you accuse me of having my head in the sand when you appear to regard holiday lets as the root of all evils while dismissing the very real issues of lost jobs, depopulation and reduced or non existent services.

I say myself that the additional demand for tradesmen is being driven by the holiday let / tourism activity that you claim is a blight and want rid of. The salient word is 'replace' the Foss mine, not additional jobs, replacement. In any case, none of this comes close to counterbalancing the reduction in agricultural and related jobs, and the loss of the hospital etc I mentioned above. Any new jobs are typically minimum wage in coffee shops.

I don't know how you can suggest that GPs can't afford to live in Highland Perthshire. But hey, I'll ask the part time GP who lives literally 50 metres from me where her colleagues live next time I see her. Sadly the other GP who lived a couple of miles down the road died suddenly recently. I do actually know where all the vets, vet nurses and other vet staff live. All either live locally, or if not, live elsewhere for non-economic reasons such as partner's job. This is very common with both partners working, it is relatively hard to get rural jobs in the same place. So the teacher who lives over the river from us commutes to her work elsewhere as her husband works here.

There are obviously people who can't afford to buy locally. It has been ever thus. When I was young these people lived in affordable rented (mostly council) properties. These have gone so now there is no option for them but to buy, which they can't afford.

BTW I see you are now talking about second homes not holiday lets. You do realise these are different things? As I mentioned above, many farms are only viable due to income from holiday lets. So are you advocating hammering them, making the business uneconomic and thus forcing more people off the land and damaging the rural economy even more?

I see no point in discussing this further. My solution to the local issues would be to encourage local employment, service provision etc so the lost jobs, and especially the relatively well paid jobs, are replaced which will allow people to live here and contribute to a prosperous community. Without that anything else is a waste of time. Hammer second homes so they are sold? Great, but if there are no jobs who is going to buy them?

[Biffer]

I said both sides are feeding each other and that it's circular , clearly, twice.

You seem stuck to emphasising one side way more than the other, that being the one that you're invested in.

With my parents passing in the last few years, we were left with two rural properties. We've sold one and are currently selling the other, and a significant part of that decision was because we didn't want to keep housing stock out of the local population. Could've set either of them up as holiday rentals but didn't.

[weegie01]

I said both sides are feeding each other and that it's circular , clearly, twice.

You seem stuck to emphasising one side way more than the other, that being the one that you're invested in.

With my parents passing in the last few years, we were left with two rural properties. We've sold one and are currently selling the other, and a significant part of that decision was because we didn't want to keep housing stock out of the local population. Could've set either of them up as holiday rentals but didn't.

And you have been wrong, twice.

There are clearly areas where second home and holiday lets are stopping people who have jobs locally living there. I do not dispute that for a second, but that is not case everywhere. Failing to recognise the differences is damaging as 'solutions' are put forward that fail to address the underlying issue.

Yet again, in many rural areas the biggest issue by far is not that people who want to live and work there can't get accommodation, but that they can't get jobs. Jobs in hospital, banks and a whole host of other enterprises did not leave Aberfeldy as they could not get staff due to a lack of accommodation for staff, they left for 'efficiency', commercial and other reasons. Holiday lets had nothing to do with this.

I notice you ignored the biggest employment issue which is the drop in employment in farming, forestry and othe traditional rural occupations leaving many tied houses vacant. These jobs went as practices changed, farms etc became less profitable etc. Again, nothing to do with holiday lets.

If there are no jobs for people to come to then debating a lack of housing for people who are not coming anyway is pointless. Holiday lets are a symptom of a far more serious problem, not the cause. Solve the problem of a lack of employment, and especially the 'mid range' jobs and then we can have a discussion about lack of housing if that turns out to be the case.

[Big D]

Looks like an additional tax band is coming and won't raise as much as they'd hope.

Perhaps more importantly, I haven't seen if they plan to pass on the retail rates relief that has been funded by Westminster. That would be very helpful to businesses.

[weegie01]

Apropos of the earlier exchange, sometimes I despair.

There is one council and three housing association houses near us. There have been ongoing maintenance issues, mainly due to both organisations taking the cheapest tender from people who do not know what they are doing. The biggest issue is the water supply is regularly condemned, and has been for the last three months so bottled water is having to be supplied.

We use the same supply. In fact it is our supply that they link into. There have been years of issues with their contractors coming along and doing things that mess up our supply, and which we keep pointing out will not work for them either, which duly turns out to be correct. Rural private water supplies are not terribly complicated to get right, but you need to know what you are doing, and getting the cheapest plumber from Perth who has never seen one before is not going to work.

After the years of issues we seperated the two supplies at source. Our supply gets regularly tested for the holiday lets, and has never failed. We know what we are doing as do the contracters we use. Before we split the supplies we offered to fix theirs at the same time if they shared the cost, but they declined.

The way the council and housing assoication plan to resolve the issues is to sell the properties as they come vacant. They say they are no longer economically viable due to the constant water issues.

Whilst I will argue that lack of jobs is a bigger issue than holiday / second homes, these are exactly the kind of affordable housing that is needed locally. They will end up holiday / second homes, and there is no reason for it.

[Big D]

If we are being asked to pay more tax, and most of us now are given the lack in inflation increase in tax bands, the government should really be tightening its belt too in what it spends in non devolved matters and anything other than necessary expenses.

Paying more tax while education etc is getting objectively worse can only go on for so long.

[vball]

Well I am on so many pills that getting them free probably exceeds the extra I already pay in tax and will now pay more..

We lived in Belgium for years and paid a hell of a lot of tax (but I was on special tax status for important Non-Belgian employee which did reduce it) but you got a huge amount for it. Schooling, streets and road care, healthcare,etc,etc.
So as was said, paying more and the Scottish govt doing the same thing at the same (maybe even higher) does not seem right. They need to foot some of the work/cost to reduce their costs.

[weegie01]

The new rate of tax and the increase in the top rate will raise comparative sweeties. If I were cynic I'd say that they were designed to get headlines and distract for the much larger tax take from middle earners from fiscal drag.

But if you earn less than £28k ish you are better off than in England, so that's all right then.

What bothers me is that I get no sense that the extra tax is being spent in a way that will improve long term prosperity as opposed to papering over cracks.

[Big D]

They haven't allowed for behavioural changes, there'll be plenty use salary sacrifice schemes or going self employed to avoid playing higher rates of tax.

https://x.com/julianHjessop/status/1737 ... 46249?s=20

Playing to the gallery of taxing higher earners for little benefit.

[Biffer]

Freezing council tax again this year was really fucking dumb.

[Big D]

Freezing council tax again this year was really fucking dumb.

Council tax itself needs looked at too.

[Slick]

Freezing council tax again this year was really fucking dumb.

It was really. I think most would have grudgingly accepted that was inevitable.

[weegie01]

Freezing council tax again this year was really fucking dumb.

It was really. I think most would have grudgingly accepted that was inevitable.

So council tax has been frozen, but councils are being given an extra £144m to compensate for the freeze, which has to be raised elsewhere so the net extra raised is the same as if council tax had been increased.

Councils have to deliver services and need funds to do that. I have no issues with poorer areas being subsidised, but putting that aside, it would seem to me better that the councils also raise as much as possible of the funds they need themselves so there is as much local accountability as possible.

[Slick]

Freezing council tax again this year was really fucking dumb.

It was really. I think most would have grudgingly accepted that was inevitable.

So council tax has been frozen, but councils are being given an extra £144m to compensate for the freeze, which has to be raised elsewhere so the net extra raised is the same as if council tax had been increased.

Councils have to deliver services and need funds to do that. I have no issues with poorer areas being subsidised, but putting that aside, it would seem to me better that the councils also raise as much as possible of the funds they need themselves so there is as much local accountability as possible.

Not sure if I completely understand your post.

If councils were able to increase their own tax then couldn't that £144m have been spent elsewhere? I think i read as well that the £144 is about a 4.5% raise but councils were saying they needed at least 6.5% raise just to keep functioning. We may well be agreeing!

[weegie01]

Not sure if I completely understand your post.

If councils were able to increase their own tax then couldn't that £144m have been spent elsewhere? I think i read as well that the £144 is about a 4.5% raise but councils were saying they needed at least 6.5% raise just to keep functioning. We may well be agreeing!

I was not looking at whether the increase was adequate for councils needs.

What I am saying is that freezing council tax has achieved nothing. Overall tax take has gone up, council spending has gone up, it is just that the councils get the money through income tax rather than council tax.

Had both council tax and income tax gone up then there would have been a greater increase in overall taxation, which could of course have been used for additional spending.

[Biffer]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

[petej]

The graphs in that thread are concerning. The drop over the last 15 years in Scotland, even allowing for the issues with covid it is a very concerning decline.

And that is the really worrying point. Jenny Gilruth's statement was pathetic, every country has had Covid to contend with, but it's the trajectory that has been sustained over 15 years that is the massive issue here

It's even getting impossible for them to roll out the "it's not as shit as England" line.
Didn't Sturgeon say she would be judged on education. Just another nail in the coffin of her reputation.

Whenever I look into things like this I get more and more suspicious of the value of it and would take results with a large pinch of salt.

Wales and Scotland have been brain drained. A better comparison would be with a deprived English region.

[inactionman]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

Ta for heads-up. I quite like Perth, reminds me of Monmouth for some reason, maybe being mostly alongside the river. Another similarity is that they both feel quite sleepy, Perth definitely needed some attractions so very good news about the museum - the Black Watch museum isn't quite right for kids and Scone Palace is a bit outside the town itself.

We take the kids to the pool in Perth wherever we're up that way (for all of Edinburgh's attractions it doesn't have much in the way of waterpark-style swimming pool), so good to have another reason to visit.

As an aside, I still think the V&A at Dundee could do with a slight rejig in terms of content. Although the visiting exhibitions have been excellent the standing exhibits aren't actually that extensive and there are a few odd sections - for example, I'm not sure I want to travel to a museum to browse a taschen textiles book.

[Biffer]

Not really politics, more cultural and heritage, but Perth Museum opens at Easter, after years of campaigning, planning and work. Brilliant to see the old City Halls redeveloped into something positive, and should help to boost that part of Perth into a bit of a hub of activity. Already loads of bars and restaurants around the square, hopefully it'll end up giving a bit of bustle to that part of two, and some boost to the cultural economy in Perth as a whole. And great to see the Stone of Scone back to (more or less) it's old home town.

https://perthmuseum.co.uk/the-stone-of-destiny/

Can't underestimate this kind of cultural investment btw. I'm really impressed with how Manchester has developed and grown in the last ten years or so, it's GDP per person is now nearly as high as Edinburgh's, which is where the major cities in the UK should be. Cultural and artistic investment and development was an important part of the redevelopment of Manchester (the Lowry, the Whitworth, HOME, Islington Mill, Imperial War Museum North, ICT, C4, BBC, etc). The benefit of cultural investment on the broader economy is very often overlooked.

Ta for heads-up. I quite like Perth, reminds me of Monmouth for some reason, maybe being mostly alongside the river. Another similarity is that they both feel quite sleepy, Perth definitely needed some attractions so very good news about the museum - the Black Watch museum isn't quite right for kids and Scone Palace is a bit outside the town itself.

We take the kids to the pool in Perth wherever we're up that way (for all of Edinburgh's attractions it doesn't have much in the way of waterpark-style swimming pool), so good to have another reason to visit.

As an aside, I still think the V&A at Dundee could do with a slight rejig in terms of content. Although the visiting exhibitions have been excellent the standing exhibits aren't actually that extensive and there are a few odd sections - for example, I'm not sure I want to travel to a museum to browse a taschen textiles book.

Yeah, V&A Dundee feels a bit 'specialist'. I can see what they were trying to achieve with the history of textiles in Dundee, but there's a broader market to be addressed.

[Slick]

This Bully XL thing just makes me want to give up. Is there a slowly shaking head emoji?