The Official Aotearoa Politics Thread

[Enzedder]

I see he was the brother of another guy who died of Covid earlier. That sucks.

[stemoc]

Lady Gayford of Hamilton is going to win this, its one of those very few elections around the world where we already know who will win..

[Enzedder]

My mate Mike has had a broadcasting authority complaint against his bullshit upheld today. He was using the Clogs line of "they were going to die anyway".


Couldn't happen to a nicer prick.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... ecommended

[Enzedder]

Winnie is going to abolish tax on fags. That would save me over $20 a day for the wifes bad habit. I'll vote for that.

[Ted.]

My mate Mike has had a broadcasting authority complaint against his bullshit upheld today. He was using the Clogs line of "they were going to die anyway".


Couldn't happen to a nicer prick.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... ecommended

Unfortunately they are still relying on wet bus tickets to change Hoskins' behaviour, despite him making Sio Tomkinson look like the cleanest tackler in NZ. Fine the prick. If that doesn't straiten the dipshit out, ban him for 6 months and fine the broadcaster and so on.

[stemoc]

how do we know Clogs isn't Hosking?

[Ted.]

how do we know Clogs isn't Hosking?

Good question. Clogs would not be seen dead looking as emaciated as Hosking.

[Enzedder]

a 12.2% drop in GDP for the quarter (7 weeks of it in lockdown though) which is about where the figure was expected. NZ is now in recession (officially but we all knew it was anyway) and the next question for 3 months time is how big will the bounce back be.

I think the Government has done all it can to put as much money into the economy that it can with grants and infrastructure spend - now it's up to us and business to try to make it work. Hang on to your hats people - she's going to be a bumpy ride.

[Ted.]

a 12.2% drop in GDP for the quarter (7 weeks of it in lockdown though) which is about where the figure was expected. NZ is now in recession (officially but we all knew it was anyway) and the next question for 3 months time is how big will the bounce back be.

I think the Government has done all it can to put as much money into the economy that it can with grants and infrastructure spend - now it's up to us and business to try to make it work. Hang on to your hats people - she's going to be a bumpy ride.

Yep, it starts sheeting home with a bit of a thud with the announcement of the official figures. All the same, have we not done relatively well when compared with the world in general? That is not an attempt at a brag, BTW, but a question of where we sit economically in a world that is contracting economically due to this pandemic.

[Ted.]

Seven Covid-19 cases in isolation, zero in community

[Jb1981]

a 12.2% drop in GDP for the quarter (7 weeks of it in lockdown though) which is about where the figure was expected. NZ is now in recession (officially but we all knew it was anyway) and the next question for 3 months time is how big will the bounce back be.

I think the Government has done all it can to put as much money into the economy that it can with grants and infrastructure spend - now it's up to us and business to try to make it work. Hang on to your hats people - she's going to be a bumpy ride.

Yep, it starts sheeting home with a bit of a thud with the announcement of the official figures. All the same, have we not done relatively well when compared with the world in general? That is not an attempt at a brag, BTW, but a question of where we sit economically in a world that is contracting economically due to this pandemic.

A graph on Stuff showed that so far our GDP drop is comparable with Canada, better than the UK and worse than Australia, the US and Germany. I’m not sure where we sit more generally and suspect it is too early to really assess even if there had a full global table. We need to see how economies bounce back and then factor that against the holistic impact. For the sake of a couple of % less of a GDP reduction, there is no way I would trade places with America for example.

[Jb1981]

Seven Covid-19 cases in isolation, zero in community

That’s three days without community spread. That’s promising but after testing the obvious close contacts we are in the “fingers crossed” stage that there aren’t any more obscure cases who haven’t fancied facing a stick to the brain.

[stemoc]

Seven Covid-19 cases in isolation, zero in community

That’s three days without community spread. That’s promising but after testing the obvious close contacts we are in the “fingers crossed” stage that there aren’t any more obscure cases who haven’t fancied facing a stick to the brain.

just wait for another church to say "hold my wine" ..

[Guy Smiley]

How good is this

stemoc, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.

[stemoc]

How good is this

stemoc, who is currently on your ignore list, made this post.
Display this post.

Noice....u cocksuc**ng c*nt

[Jb1981]

I’m just reading about a mother who is angry at the time it took to be notified of a positive case at Chapel Downs Primary School.

This be fair, she got a great name for being grumpy.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... covid-case

Ramona Ah Fook, a pregnant mother of two children at the school, said that morning period is busy and kids from all classes would be near each other.

......

Ah Fook was furious it took two days to find out about the positive case.

[Jambanja]

Seven Covid-19 cases in isolation, zero in community

Agreed that’s great news, I do hope the stigma that some fuckwits have bestowed upon those testing positive has not stopped others from the clusters from getting tested, because that could be disastrous.
One other thing those figures tell us is that it’s going to be a long time before we will be able to open our borders which is rather sad and scary

[Ted.]

a 12.2% drop in GDP for the quarter (7 weeks of it in lockdown though) which is about where the figure was expected. NZ is now in recession (officially but we all knew it was anyway) and the next question for 3 months time is how big will the bounce back be.

I think the Government has done all it can to put as much money into the economy that it can with grants and infrastructure spend - now it's up to us and business to try to make it work. Hang on to your hats people - she's going to be a bumpy ride.

Yep, it starts sheeting home with a bit of a thud with the announcement of the official figures. All the same, have we not done relatively well when compared with the world in general? That is not an attempt at a brag, BTW, but a question of where we sit economically in a world that is contracting economically due to this pandemic.

A graph on Stuff showed that so far our GDP drop is comparable with Canada, better than the UK and worse than Australia, the US and Germany. I’m not sure where we sit more generally and suspect it is too early to really assess even if there had a full global table. We need to see how economies bounce back and then factor that against the holistic impact. For the sake of a couple of % less of a GDP reduction, there is no way I would trade places with America for example.

Agreed. I guess it also relates to where the costs lie, who pays for what in differing economies and how it is accounted for. Some costs will be slower to feed through in some economies than others.

I also guess that some counties who have have been hit quite hard by Covid, might show an initial up-stick in activity in their health and insurance sectors that negates some of the economic downturn. Or is that total blather?

[Ted.]

So what do people think of National's alternative budget, massive cuts to government spending and therefore services substantially offset by tax cuts?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ve-budgets

[Enzedder]

Cuts to government spending, services and infrastructure will do damage to the economy - partly offset by the lift in tax brackets for a while.

I wish they went onto a huge spending spree to create jobs instead of reducing their income. Then the income from the wages can filter back to the government as well as supporting businesses in NZ

[Fat Old Git]

It seems like they don't really have any new tricks.

[Enzedder]

Anybody with a pulse knew that this was coming - I wonder what the cost will be $300m if we're lucky, more like $600m

What did Brownlee know about Southern Response’s misleading and deceptive conduct?
WrittenBy: MICKYSAVAGE - Date published:4:37 pm, September 8th, 2020

I am just asking questions. But they need to be asked. What did Minister of CERA Gerry Brownlee know about Southern Response’s apparent policy to mislead claimants about the amount they should have been repaid? Because this was not a one off event, it appears that it was business as usual for Southern Response.



The detail is provided in this Court of Appeal decision. Mr and Mrs Dodds sued Southern Response essentially on the basis that they had been unlawfully misled about their actual entitlement under the policy with Southern Response. The summary of the background is contained in this passage:

The Dodds entered into a Settlement Agreement with Southern Response under which they settled their insurance claim on the basis that a “fair and reasonable estimate for the rebuild cost of the insured property, and the sum insured under the policy, is $907,321”. This figure was based on the figure shown in the Abridged [detailed rebuild/repair analysis document], with some adjustments that are immaterial for present purposes. The Dodds subsequently discovered that a more extensive DRA had been prepared by Arrow for Southern Response (the Complete DRA). The Complete DRA set out a number of additional costs that Arrow estimated Southern Response would incur if the house was rebuilt on its existing site, including allowances for professional fees and contingencies. Those additional costs amounted to approximately $205,000.”

The Court held that Southern Response’s behaviour constituted a misrepresentation under section 35 of the Contracts and Commercial Law Act 2017 which justified an award of damages and that it also breached Fair Trading Act in that it was misleading and deceptive conduct. From the Judgment:

We consider that the Judge was right to find that Southern Response had made misrepresentations about its estimate of the cost of rebuilding the house, and about the absence of any other report from Arrow setting out a different rebuild cost. The Judge was also right to find that by making these misrepresentations, Southern Response breached the [Fair Trading Act].”

Pretty clear eh. The kicker for Southern Response is that it appears this was not a one off event. From Radio New Zealand:

Lawyer for the Dodds, Peter Woods, said the decision delivered “clarity” in spades.

“The Court of Appeal was absolutely clear Southern Response had made representations that were false, that the Dodds had relied on those, they were induced to enter into an agreement based on those misrepresentations, that the misrepresentations were also misleading and deceptive, and the Dodds were entitled to almost their full claim, so it totals up to about $250,000.”

Woods said the government should now have “perfect clarity”, which could apply to thousands of other cases.

“In the High Court, Southern Response’s evidence was there was at least 1600 other claims in a similar position. If they are all valued at $250,000 then you do the maths on that … the government’s probably exposed to in excess of $500 million as a result of this.”

And one of the successful plaintiffs, Karl Dodds, has asked some very pertinent issues. Again from Radio New Zealand:

[Dodds] said decisions were made by the “highest level of the organisation” and renewed his call for an inquiry into Southern Response, by the likes of Dame Silvia Cartwright.

It would need to be similar to the inquiry into EQC, but with one difference.

“EQC made a lot of mistakes but they were really caught off guard. Nobody expected the magnitude of the disaster. They were understaffed, ill-equipped and perhaps one could say they did their best, but with that said we spent the first two years battling EQC, with letters flying backwards and forwards and getting more and more fiery as we went.

“But with Southern Response they don’t have the same excuse. They came into existence after the disaster and therefore were well-equipped to behave professionally and competently and this they failed to do.

“When an independent person digs deep enough they will be able to find all sorts of additional dubious practices of which we are well aware but we are not going to disclose at this point in time, which will really push the whole case, as to their behaviour, beyond another level.”

So at what level was the decision made to engage in what the Court of Appeal has said was misleading and deceptive conduct and what did Brownlee know about it? We deserve an answer. After all it seems that 1,600 Christchurch residents and couples have been short changed by about half a billion dollars because of this decision.

[Enzedder]

Meanwhile, the eutenasia vote looks cut and dried in favour - the cannabis one is split (and the spiffers won't get down to the polls to vote anyway)

New Zealanders continue to be heavily in favour of legalising euthanasia, where as they are divided over the question of whether to legalise recreational cannabis use, according to the latest survey from Research New Zealand.

In this year's general election people will be asked to vote on the two issues in referenda.

Research NZ managing partner Emanuel Kalafatelis said 52 percent of survey respondents said they had recently seen or heard information about legalising euthanasia, while 55 percent said they had thought about the issue and about a third had discussed it with their friends and family.

The respondents were then asked if it was election day today how they would vote in the referenda.

"We asked them whether they were in favour or not in favour of the legislation which allows terminally ill adults to request a medically assisted death," Kalafatelis said.

"Overall 64 percent, not quite two thirds were in favour, with 18 percent saying they were not in favour. Another 9 percent were sitting on the fence, 7 percent said they didn't know."

Kalafatelis said something dramatic would have to happen for that gap to close prior to the referendum.

But he said the figure shows a softening in the level of support and when the same question was asked in December last year approximately 70 percent of respondents were in favour of the legislation, while the number of those strongly in favour of the legislation dropped from 50 percent six months ago to 33 percent today.

Kalafatelis said there is a relatively higher level of support among older age groups, but the level of support across all age groups is well over 50 percent.

Opinion on cannabis split
Kalafatelis said the cannabis referendum is also on people's radar with 54 percent having seen or heard something about it recently.

He said people were asked the following question: "Are you in favour or not in favour of a government controlling by law how cannabis is grown, manufactured and sold in New Zealand for recreational use."

At the moment opinion is polarised Kalafatelis said, with 43 percent of respondents in favour of the legislation and 39 percent against it.

He said although there is a difference, it is not statistically significant.

[Ted.]

Cuts to government spending, services and infrastructure will do damage to the economy - partly offset by the lift in tax brackets for a while.

I wish they went onto a huge spending spree to create jobs instead of reducing their income. Then the income from the wages can filter back to the government as well as supporting businesses in NZ

It seems like they don't really have any new tricks.

It seems to be that way. Is this a poorly disguised form of trickle down theory?

[Flockwitt]

I'm certainly NOT a fan of National's proposal.

[Enzedder]

Early heads up on Auckland Central - looks to be a big win for Labour

A new poll has revealed Labour candidate Helen White is miles ahead in the hotly contested fight for the Auckland Central electorate.

The seat is held by popular National Party incumbent Nikki Kaye but she is standing down and The Nation's Reid Research poll shows who is in the race to be her replacement.

With Labour riding high in the party vote, its candidate Helen White was thought to be the frontrunner.

The poll put her at 42.3 per cent, National's Emma Mellow at 26.6 per cent, and the Greens' Chloe Swarbrick at 24.2 per cent.

The poll has a 4.2 per cent margin of error, polled 532 people and was taken in the first and second weeks of September.

White ran in 2017 when she won 40 per cent of the candidate votes - more than the Labour vote of 38 per cent.

National chose a relative unknown, bank PR manager Mellow, following a late, messy selection process which gave National a stumbling start in the contest.

As for the party vote, the Newshub poll showed most Auckland Central Labour voters in 2017 - 77.6 per cent - were also planning to again vote red. Meanwhile, 4.7 per cent were going to vote for National, and 9.6 per cent for the Greens.

Only 68.6 per cent of National voters say they're going to tick blue in 2020 - 15.7 per cent are switching to Labour.

For the Greens, barely half of their voters plan to vote for them again. A quarter had switched allegiance to Labour.

The poll interviewed 532 people via landline, phone and online and on the street. It had a margin of error of 4.2 per cent.

[Monkey Magic]

Early heads up on Auckland Central - looks to be a big win for Labour

A new poll has revealed Labour candidate Helen White is miles ahead in the hotly contested fight for the Auckland Central electorate.

The seat is held by popular National Party incumbent Nikki Kaye but she is standing down and The Nation's Reid Research poll shows who is in the race to be her replacement.

With Labour riding high in the party vote, its candidate Helen White was thought to be the frontrunner.

The poll put her at 42.3 per cent, National's Emma Mellow at 26.6 per cent, and the Greens' Chloe Swarbrick at 24.2 per cent.

The poll has a 4.2 per cent margin of error, polled 532 people and was taken in the first and second weeks of September.

White ran in 2017 when she won 40 per cent of the candidate votes - more than the Labour vote of 38 per cent.

National chose a relative unknown, bank PR manager Mellow, following a late, messy selection process which gave National a stumbling start in the contest.

As for the party vote, the Newshub poll showed most Auckland Central Labour voters in 2017 - 77.6 per cent - were also planning to again vote red. Meanwhile, 4.7 per cent were going to vote for National, and 9.6 per cent for the Greens.

Only 68.6 per cent of National voters say they're going to tick blue in 2020 - 15.7 per cent are switching to Labour.

For the Greens, barely half of their voters plan to vote for them again. A quarter had switched allegiance to Labour.

The poll interviewed 532 people via landline, phone and online and on the street. It had a margin of error of 4.2 per cent.

Reids last couple if polls seem to have overstated how well labour is going, but even taking that into account seems like a lock at this stage

[Jb1981]

Two new cases of community transmission today. They are not connected to the Auckland cluster but are household contacts of yesterday’s case. Interestingly, the person yesterday returned to NZ from India in late August and completed isolation returning two negative test. So, they either picked it up in NZ after leaving isolation or brought it in with a long incubation.

What is the better outcome:

1. They picked it up in Auckland in a way not connected to the cluster - i.e there are unknown sources.

2. They returned with it but it didn’t show symptoms / test positive until after their 14 days - but were then contagious hence the household contacts now being positive. If this happened could a similar situation be behind the emergence of community spread and what does this mean for the 14 day isolation strategy?

[Ted.]

Two new cases of community transmission today. They are not connected to the Auckland cluster but are household contacts of yesterday’s case. Interestingly, the person yesterday returned to NZ from India in late August and completed isolation returning two negative test. So, they either picked it up in NZ after leaving isolation or brought it in with a long incubation.

What is the better outcome:

1. They picked it up in Auckland in a way not connected to the cluster - i.e there are unknown sources.

2. They returned with it but it didn’t show symptoms / test positive until after their 14 days - but were then contagious hence the household contacts now being positive. If this happened could a similar situation be behind the emergence of community spread and what does this mean for the 14 day isolation strategy?

2. Protocols can be changed, errors can be corrected. Another community outbreak in Auckland would not be at all good.

[Ted.]

In other news, I see National fucked up their alternative budget figures by the tune of 4 Billiion smackers. Following previous kerfuffles over miscalculations, some might say that is more than a little humiliating.

[Enzedder]

In other news, I see National fucked up their alternative budget figures by the tune of 4 Billiion smackers. Following previous kerfuffles over miscalculations, some might say that is more than a little humiliating.

Annoying but understandable. At least it wasn't a complete lie like Joyce's $11bn hole one.

[Enzedder]

This is interesting, especially for those who think the government has done a bad job of handling the pandemic

COVID-19 PANDEMIC TIMELINE
How the coronavirus started, spread and stalled life in New Zealand
https://shorthand.radionz.co.nz/coronav ... 9NUP88SWa0

[Enzedder]

Oh dear - the Nats have to find another $3.9bn after another accounting cock-up

Give it away guys - not fit to govern

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... er-mistake

[Monkey Magic]

Oh dear - the Nats have to find another $3.9bn after another accounting cock-up

Give it away guys - not fit to govern

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... er-mistake

Great team they have there... saddest thing about their incompetence is that it makes Act look good

[booji boy]

Oh dear - the Nats have to find another $3.9bn after another accounting cock-up

Give it away guys - not fit to govern

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... er-mistake

Great team they have there... saddest thing about their incompetence is that it makes Act look good

At least it doesn't make Labour look good. It just looks like a dead heat. Which is disappointing.

[Ted.]

Ok, that's it you smashed halloween pumpkin headed witch. This sort of rank dishonesty gets me riled up.

Election 2020: Judith Collins refuses to condemn false quote posted by her MPs

National leader Judith Collins refused to criticise two of her MPs for circulating a fake quote from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern on Friday.

Collins said she didn’t think the MPs should take down their posts as they were “genuinely reflecting what they believe.”

Nationals MPs Matt King and Harete Hipango have both reposted a meme that quotes Ardern as saying “Dairy farming is a world of the past”.

Ardern did not say or imply this. In the TVNZ debate on Tuesday night she said a view of farming as being opposed to sustainability, with regulations imposing a huge burden, was “a view of the world that has passed”. Several other National MPs took this quote out of context on social media, but only Hipango and King posted an explicitly false version of it.

King, the MP for Northland, said the quote was “unbelievable from the Labour leader last night”.

Hipango, the MP for Whanganui and the shadow attorney general, posted the quote saying “this is what the PM really thinks of our dairy farmers. She said it!”

Hipango told the Whanganui Chronicle that despite quote mark on the image, she did not see it as a false quote, but instead a “construction of key words aligned with Jacinda Ardern.”

"It is not a false quote - as it is not a quote - It is a construction of key words aligned with Jacinda Ardern," Hipango told the Chronicle.

There is a large quote mark above the text in the image.

Asked about the matter on Friday, Collins said she had not talked to Hipango about the matter, instead attacking the Prime Minister for what she had said in the debate.

“I felt that the Prime Minister completely dismissing as an ‘old world way of looking at farming’ when I spoke about the absolute distress that many farming families are going through was disgraceful,” Collins said.

Asked if she was worried about the false quotes reflecting badly on the party Collins said she was not.

Then asked if the MPs should delete their posts, Collins said she didn’t think they should.

“No I think they are genuinely reflecting what they believe.”

Collins pushed back on reporters describing the quotes, asking "what was she saying was old?”

King has been asked for comment.

Early in her tenure as leader Collins told an audience no one had escaped from prison when she was Correction Minister, which was not true.

Asked about the matter later, she said she had been joking.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... by-her-mps

If that is the standard that Collins holds herself and her MPs too, and therefore presumably a National government, then she and her government will not be good enough for New Zealand unless we accept such poor and dishonest standards for ourselves, individually and as a whole. Well, I utterly reject that, but I also expect some are happy to accept low standards in favour of fraudulent expediency.

[Enzedder]

I'm laughing at Collins's attempts to make Ardern seem young and inexperienced with the "Miss Arden" barb.

I am loving the response it is getting - M'eh; whatever and completely ignored. The funny part is that it is JC who is the inexperienced one at leading (5/6 weeks) and being PM (nil).

[Guy Smiley]

Disappointingly predictable that such childish shit should rear it’s head like that Enzo.

[Enzedder]

Still

[Fat Old Git]

National has gone through a similar upheaval to what Labour went through before the last election. But instead of getting rid of some baggage and ending up with someone a bit new and fresh, they've brought back their baggage and put it in charge.