Official Wales v Scotland thread

[FalconJock]

I would imagine it's the notion that Wales were coached and Scotland penalised that sparks the accusation of delusion.

OK so oif it was from my comment then thats not what i meant....Wales listned to the referee and adjusted, Scotland didn't , so the basic coaching point is to listen to what you are being told and adjust your behaviour accordingly. No complaints from me from a Scotland POV, Wales reacted better and got themselves into a match that should have been out of reach by half time.

Actually, it probably DOES come from better coaching when you have an inexperienced International squad who would look to the coaching team for guidence especially if one of the last things the hear is "LISTEN to what the referee is telling you needs to change" so yeah I supose coached might be the right term but it isnt meant to be derogative

[FalconJock]

Unusual, but not unprecedented. I'll admit to only keep half an eye on proceedings until the momentum swing, but I didn't feel like the ref was saying any more to the Welsh than he was the Scots.

Nah he was fair. You guys imploded against our kids

Again, no arguements from me on that, the apparently inexperienced team reacted better than the more experienced one.

Again I think that BOK had a good game and I have no issues with his decisions, any marginal ones could have gone either way but the big ones were spot on

[C69]

Unusual, but not unprecedented. I'll admit to only keep half an eye on proceedings until the momentum swing, but I didn't feel like the ref was saying any more to the Welsh than he was the Scots.

Nah he was fair. You guys imploded against our kids

Wales lost, twice in a row against Scotland now. Wales aren't beating Scotland any year soon.

Absolutely we will be shit in our rebuilding phase. We won't be competitive for at least 3 years
You guys won't win the 6N even though this is your best team in a generation.

[Tichtheid]

I don't think I've ever behaved this way after a rugby game before and I'm not proud of it.

I got very fed up of years of Welsh arrogance on various boreds and their coach was exactly the same after the game today as he has always been, so that was behind what I've posted since the final whistle.

Scotland aren't going to get weaker in the coming years, most of the team will still be around for a while yet and there are a few serious prospects on the way - Finn is the main concern as there is no one coming up yet that can hold a candle to him. Healy is a completely different player, though he's not the all-about-the-boot that we assumed he was to begin with.

The problem for us has always been that as much as Scotland improve, the others don't stand still.

[Sandstorm]

I would imagine it's the notion that Wales were coached and Scotland penalised that sparks the accusation of delusion.

a 16 - 4 overall penalty count, including 14 - 0 in a row in that period after van der Merwe's second half try is rather unusual, I would have thought.

Our old mate Ali’s Choice always loved a one-sided penalty count.

[Uncle fester]

It would be interesting to learn if any team has won a game where the penalty count was 16-4 against with two yellow cards as part of it.
14 penalties against Scotland in a row - you'd think that would be some kind of record.

I very much doubt that we'll face that again.

For fifty minutes there was a huge gulf between the sides. For the last five it was back to that.

What's annoying for me is that Wales were warned in about the 8th minute about being offside and adjusted, Scotland didn't. We are either thicker than a whale omlette or think that refs are dumber than a bag of rocks and all have shor term memory problems.

You've hit on a point that was raised throughout the second half on the Glasgow bored by several posters - the feeling there was that Wales were warned/coached and Scotland were penalised

Gatland's teams have always been cute and canny when it came to managing the ref. Scotland need to wise up.

[Uncle fester]

I don't think I've ever behaved this way after a rugby game before and I'm not proud of it.

I got very fed up of years of Welsh arrogance on various boreds and their coach was exactly the same after the game today as he has always been, so that was behind what I've posted since the final whistle.

What did Cockland say this time?

[Tichtheid]

I don't think I've ever behaved this way after a rugby game before and I'm not proud of it.

I got very fed up of years of Welsh arrogance on various boreds and their coach was exactly the same after the game today as he has always been, so that was behind what I've posted since the final whistle.

What did Cockland say this time?

Pretty much the same ballpark as C69, it's a bunch of kids for Wales, Scotland at full strength (not true over the 23) and so the victory was actually Wales'.

[Uncle fester]

He's always been like that.

[Slick]

What's annoying for me is that Wales were warned in about the 8th minute about being offside and adjusted, Scotland didn't. We are either thicker than a whale omlette or think that refs are dumber than a bag of rocks and all have shor term memory problems.

You've hit on a point that was raised throughout the second half on the Glasgow bored by several posters - the feeling there was that Wales were warned/coached and Scotland were penalised

Gatland's teams have always been cute and canny when it came to managing the ref. Scotland need to wise up.

The frustration is that we have been saying exactly that for 5/6 years.

I thought the ref had a decent game.

The only encouraging thing for me was Finns words after the game. Lots of people have the impression he just pisses about but that was something that needed said and was delivered with a decent bit of spite, he has really grown up and is becoming more and more impressive as a leader

[Yr Alban]

Right - have watched the game now. Possibly revisionist take incoming.

I don’t think Scotland were either as good in the first half, or as poor in the second, as the scoreboard would suggest.

We were dominant in the first half, but the difference between the teams was that Scotland took our chances to score - which we haven’t always been good at doing.

Wales’s period of dominance in the second half coincided almost precisely with Scotland being down to 14. The time period between Turner finally getting back onto the pitch and Tuipulotu going off was 90 seconds. Effectively it was over 20 minutes continuously with a man short. Neither YC was the sort of total brain fart we’ve been used to for years. We’ve all seen many offences like Turner’s go unpunished because the try was scored, and Tuipulotu’s was a technical infringement I struggled to see even watching it back several times.

The moment Scotland were back to parity, we got a grip on the game again and closed it out. There was one terrible lineout, but otherwise Wales didn’t get much of a sniff in the last 10.

The 14 consecutive penalties is difficult to understand. I didn’t think that was one of our worse games discipline wise. Again, few brain farts, just that Wales seemed to get every marginal call.

Overall, it was a good win which should have been a lot less close than it was.

[Biffer]

I don't think I've ever behaved this way after a rugby game before and I'm not proud of it.

I got very fed up of years of Welsh arrogance on various boreds and their coach was exactly the same after the game today as he has always been, so that was behind what I've posted since the final whistle.

What did Cockland say this time?

Pretty much the same ballpark as C69, it's a bunch of kids for Wales, Scotland at full strength (not true over the 23) and so the victory was actually Wales'.

Yeah, we were on our fourth of fifth choice TH prop for example.

Gatland is an absolute wanker, fuck him in the ear. I hope his second spell continues as it has started, in charge of a bankrupt team that feeds on the bottom.

I thought O’keefe wasn’t even handed, it seemed Wales got a lot more time to release at the breakdown than we did, but that doesn’t change the fact we shat the bed, once again, in Cardiff. Neither does it change the fact that the penalties and cards against Scotland were entirely reasonable. Turner is a fucking idiot, and it’s not the first time his mind blowing ly fucking moronic behaviour has led to a collapse by Scotland. He’s not going to change now. Twat.

However, Wales lost to a team that shat the bed big style. That’s not the mark of a decent, or even potentially decent, team.

[C69]

I don't think I've ever behaved this way after a rugby game before and I'm not proud of it.

I got very fed up of years of Welsh arrogance on various boreds and their coach was exactly the same after the game today as he has always been, so that was behind what I've posted since the final whistle.

What did Cockland say this time?

Pretty much the same ballpark as C69, it's a bunch of kids for Wales, Scotland at full strength (not true over the 23) and so the victory was actually Wales'.

Haven't heard seen what he said but this was Wales kids and not even the best kids tbh.
Sorry but we are an awful rabble and Scotland capitulated second half.
We should have lost by 40 plus today, I suspect we will get rinsed the rest of the tournament.

[Biffer]

Also wrt to BOK. The last segment of play, Wales we’re lying all over the ball at every breakdown. He didn’t even tell them to get away. We should have had several advantages called and had another shot at the BP.

[Biffer]

If you want an example of differential refereeing, compare the offside called against Scott Cummings to multiple phases of Welsh defense in the last series of plays inside the Welsh five. Not even handed, not equivalent. Wales we’re standing offside repeatedly all through the game, but not called. Scotland were.

[Tichtheid]

What did Cockland say this time?

Pretty much the same ballpark as C69, it's a bunch of kids for Wales, Scotland at full strength (not true over the 23) and so the victory was actually Wales'.

Haven't heard seen what he said but this was Wales kids and not even the best kids tbh.
Sorry but we are an awful rabble and Scotland capitulated second half.
We should have lost by 40 plus today, I suspect we will get rinsed the rest of the tournament.

I don't like the way the Welsh arrogance and total lack of sportsmanship makes me react. I've been aware of it for years online, but I still do it.

That's on me.

[C69]

Also wrt to BOK. The last segment of play, Wales we’re lying all over the ball at every breakdown. He didn’t even tell them to get away. We should have had several advantages called and had another shot at the BP.

Your players should never have gotten themselves into a position where they did not thrash such a poor young experimental shower of shit.
Wales were poor and should have been thrashed.
The ref was fine.

[inactionman]

I enjoyed the match, I'm not enjoying this whining.

[Biffer]

Also wrt to BOK. The last segment of play, Wales we’re lying all over the ball at every breakdown. He didn’t even tell them to get away. We should have had several advantages called and had another shot at the BP.

Your players should never have gotten themselves into a position where they did not thrash such a poor young experimental shower of shit.
Wales were poor and should have been thrashed.
The ref was fine.

Your first two statements are correct. The last one isn’t. They’re not mutually exclusive.

[Tichtheid]

I enjoyed the match, I'm not enjoying this whining.

ASMO's prediction about the increased spite this year has been proven correct at least.

[JM2K6]

Can't understand how anyone bites on c69's rancid bait. Even he can't take himself seriously (or he'd die of shame).

[C69]

Can't understand how anyone bites on c69's rancid bait. Even he can't take himself seriously (or he'd die of shame).

I can assure you I would never die of shame.

[HKCJ]

Unlucky Wales, a brilliantly plucky performance

[weegie01]

What an embarrassment of a second half.

Townsend either refuses to (very unlikely) or can't reign in the significant discipline problem. He has to clamp down on it. If it means sacking Tandy and getting a new defensive system in place or dropping players then so be it. Enough is enough

Finns comments quite revealing, I think heads will roll. Turner was especially idiotic today.

That Fraser Brown made a habit of giving away game changing penalties and still had a long career suggests that is a forlorn hope.

Mind you, nice to hear a captain say something interesting rather than the usual 'credit to....' platitudes.

[Yr Alban]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

[Slick]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

. I like that

[Biffer]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

I will come round to this way of thinking in the next few days

[Hugo]

Right - have watched the game now. Possibly revisionist take incoming.

I don’t think Scotland were either as good in the first half, or as poor in the second, as the scoreboard would suggest.

We were dominant in the first half, but the difference between the teams was that Scotland took our chances to score - which we haven’t always been good at doing.

Wales’s period of dominance in the second half coincided almost precisely with Scotland being down to 14. The time period between Turner finally getting back onto the pitch and Tuipulotu going off was 90 seconds. Effectively it was over 20 minutes continuously with a man short. Neither YC was the sort of total brain fart we’ve been used to for years. We’ve all seen many offences like Turner’s go unpunished because the try was scored, and Tuipulotu’s was a technical infringement I struggled to see even watching it back several times.

The moment Scotland were back to parity, we got a grip on the game again and closed it out. There was one terrible lineout, but otherwise Wales didn’t get much of a sniff in the last 10.

The 14 consecutive penalties is difficult to understand. I didn’t think that was one of our worse games discipline wise. Again, few brain farts, just that Wales seemed to get every marginal call.

Overall, it was a good win which should have been a lot less close than it was.

Good points but I wish Scotland had slowed down Wales momentum in the second half sooner rather than later. To my mind that seemed to demonstrate a lack leadership. That lineout call was suicidal.

[OomStruisbaai]

Can't understand how anyone bites on c69's rancid bait. Even he can't take himself seriously (or he'd die of shame).

I can assure you I would never die of shame.

You are spot on. Don't bodder with the troller..

[Sandstorm]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

Celebrate the 1 point victories. Bok style.

[weegie01]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

How many times have Scotland 'moral victories'? How many times have we been told 'it's the scoreboard that counts'?

There was lots and lots to be unhappy about in that match but in the end we won. How Scotland respond to frailties exposed in that match will be critical. But since we have, for example, been making suicide line out calls at critical moments I am not sanguine.

[Yr Alban]

Right - have watched the game now. Possibly revisionist take incoming.

I don’t think Scotland were either as good in the first half, or as poor in the second, as the scoreboard would suggest.

We were dominant in the first half, but the difference between the teams was that Scotland took our chances to score - which we haven’t always been good at doing.

Wales’s period of dominance in the second half coincided almost precisely with Scotland being down to 14. The time period between Turner finally getting back onto the pitch and Tuipulotu going off was 90 seconds. Effectively it was over 20 minutes continuously with a man short. Neither YC was the sort of total brain fart we’ve been used to for years. We’ve all seen many offences like Turner’s go unpunished because the try was scored, and Tuipulotu’s was a technical infringement I struggled to see even watching it back several times.

The moment Scotland were back to parity, we got a grip on the game again and closed it out. There was one terrible lineout, but otherwise Wales didn’t get much of a sniff in the last 10.

The 14 consecutive penalties is difficult to understand. I didn’t think that was one of our worse games discipline wise. Again, few brain farts, just that Wales seemed to get every marginal call.

Overall, it was a good win which should have been a lot less close than it was.

Good points but I wish Scotland had slowed down Wales momentum in the second half sooner rather than later. To my mind that seemed to demonstrate a lack leadership. That lineout call was suicidal.

I don’t think we could slow their momentum when we were a man short. Once they had the advantage, they threw in the kitchen sink, and that’s when the noise level of the Millennium with the roof closed really comes into play. And then we got another YC right after the first finished, which ensured their momentum continued.

Here’s the thing. Everyone remembers the Wales comeback in 2010, because they won the game. Only bitter Scotland fans remember that the comeback was achieved against 13 men, thanks to two seriously dodgy YCs, and after our entire back 3 had been carried off with serious injuries, so that we had Mike Blair playing wing. It will be the same with this game. In a year or two few people will remember the details of this game, because we won it. Perhaps unfair, but that’s how this works.

[Uncle fester]

Right - have watched the game now. Possibly revisionist take incoming.

I don’t think Scotland were either as good in the first half, or as poor in the second, as the scoreboard would suggest.

We were dominant in the first half, but the difference between the teams was that Scotland took our chances to score - which we haven’t always been good at doing.

Wales’s period of dominance in the second half coincided almost precisely with Scotland being down to 14. The time period between Turner finally getting back onto the pitch and Tuipulotu going off was 90 seconds. Effectively it was over 20 minutes continuously with a man short. Neither YC was the sort of total brain fart we’ve been used to for years. We’ve all seen many offences like Turner’s go unpunished because the try was scored, and Tuipulotu’s was a technical infringement I struggled to see even watching it back several times.

The moment Scotland were back to parity, we got a grip on the game again and closed it out. There was one terrible lineout, but otherwise Wales didn’t get much of a sniff in the last 10.

The 14 consecutive penalties is difficult to understand. I didn’t think that was one of our worse games discipline wise. Again, few brain farts, just that Wales seemed to get every marginal call.

Overall, it was a good win which should have been a lot less close than it was.

Good points but I wish Scotland had slowed down Wales momentum in the second half sooner rather than later. To my mind that seemed to demonstrate a lack leadership. That lineout call was suicidal.

I don’t think we could slow their momentum when we were a man short. Once they had the advantage, they threw in the kitchen sink, and that’s when the noise level of the Millennium with the roof closed really comes into play. And then we got another YC right after the first finished, which ensured their momentum continued.

Here’s the thing. Everyone remembers the Wales comeback in 2010, because they won the game. Only bitter Scotland fans remember that the comeback was achieved against 13 men, thanks to two seriously dodgy YCs, and after our entire back 3 had been carried off with serious injuries, so that we had Mike Blair playing wing. It will be the same with this game. In a year or two few people will remember the details of this game, because we won it. Perhaps unfair, but that’s how this works.

You're not very familiar with Wales?

You never beat Wales. You only score more points than them.

[Blackmac]

It would be interesting to learn if any other team has won a game where the penalty count was 16-4 against with two yellow cards as part of it.
14 penalties against Scotland in a row - you'd think that would be some kind of record.

I very much doubt that we'll face that again.

For fifty minutes there was a huge gulf between the sides. For the last five it was back to that.

It's the same pattern. Pressure comes on, defence goes really passive, give away pens and cards.

Plus they make really stupid decisions. You would love to know what Turner was thinking to collapse a rabidly advancing maul a couple of feet from the line. What possible outcome did he except and the stupidity costs us double.

[C69]

Good points but I wish Scotland had slowed down Wales momentum in the second half sooner rather than later. To my mind that seemed to demonstrate a lack leadership. That lineout call was suicidal.

I don’t think we could slow their momentum when we were a man short. Once they had the advantage, they threw in the kitchen sink, and that’s when the noise level of the Millennium with the roof closed really comes into play. And then we got another YC right after the first finished, which ensured their momentum continued.

Here’s the thing. Everyone remembers the Wales comeback in 2010, because they won the game. Only bitter Scotland fans remember that the comeback was achieved against 13 men, thanks to two seriously dodgy YCs, and after our entire back 3 had been carried off with serious injuries, so that we had Mike Blair playing wing. It will be the same with this game. In a year or two few people will remember the details of this game, because we won it. Perhaps unfair, but that’s how this works.

You're not very familiar with Wales?

You never beat Wales. You only score more points than them.

Which would be the very definition of beating them.

[clydecloggie]

Over the 80 minutes, Scotland showed how good they can be, and that they have a soft underbelly which can be their undoing.

But like the last few Calcutta cups, the big difference in this team is that when things get close, they tend to come out on top - unlike the Scotland teams of the last 20-odd years.

The soft underbelly still means it's men against boys when they come up against the Boks or the Irish, and it's shit.

But at the very least, once the momentum turns against Scotland in a match, I don't automatically get that sinking feeling anymore where it's 100% certain they'll fuck it up and lose.

They beat Wales with a very good first 45 and professional last 5, with a horrible 30 minutes in between. But they won. Especially the last 5 minutes of that game give me confidence that this team can go on to play a big role in this 6N.

[JM2K6]

I think Scotland were some way off their best in the first 45. It was all pretty casual and lacked intensity, most notably in defence, because they didn't need to raise their game.

They won't be that complacent again. Always good to have the wakeup call be a game you still win.

[Slick]

On reflection, I’ve decided I just don’t care. We won. It may not have been the thrashing it should have been, but we went to Cardiff and we won. First time since 2002. We’ve had way too many hard luck stories in the intervening period and the table doesn’t care about the manner of the victory.

How many times have Scotland 'moral victories'? How many times have we been told 'it's the scoreboard that counts'?

There was lots and lots to be unhappy about in that match but in the end we won. How Scotland respond to frailties exposed in that match will be critical. But since we have, for example, been making suicide line out calls at critical moments I am not sanguine.

Yes, I’m a little more sanguine about today, a win is a win and yet another historical monkey off our back.

At the same time, it’s tough getting so emotionally involved with a team you know still might blow it at 27 points up against callow thrown together opponents?

Still reasonably confident about the next 2 home games. We will need to keep that level up for more than 45 minutes though obviously

[Slick]

I think Scotland were some way off their best in the first 45. It was all pretty casual and lacked intensity, most notably in defence, because they didn't need to raise their game.

They won't be that complacent again. Always good to have the wakeup call be a game you still win.

I think this is right actually. Even in that first 45 there were plenty of players, including Finn actually, who looked like they were going through the motions a bit and not really mentally there

[topofthemoon]