RFU - We’re gonna build a new HQ, with blackjack and hookers

[Paddington Bear]

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2024/ ... on-england

Actually think going to Wembley is the best option here.

[SaintK]

The old blazer brigade would be up in arms if that happened, having to share stadiums with the round ball oiks!
A slightly less shit journey to get there mind.

[Paddington Bear]

The old blazer brigade would be up in arms if that happened, having to share stadiums with the round ball oiks!
A slightly less shit journey to get there mind.

It would wind them up into a frenzy, a major motivation.
Wembley’s transport is good - the challenge is for football everyone has to clear out at the same time. If you had a fan village/bars open post match etc it would be reasonably seamless.

The RFU is not capable of successfully completing a debt funded £600m+ project, it will bankrupt English rugby and we should negotiate with the FA now from a position of strength as there’s a good chance we’re going to have to negotiate anyway

[sockwithaticket]

I'm sure someone has done the sums, but I'd love to see a breakdown of what £663m is actually for. Seems like an awful lot.

[inactionman]

What I'm reading is that he RFU screwed up the (relatively recent?) previous developments as it had no overarching plan. Excellent lads, well played yet again.

I do think the transport needs to be looked into, but you can't help but wonder what the RFU can realistically do about that - it's a huge stadium in a residential suburb with no immediate tube link. Riverboats are an interesting option, at least for getting from central London out, but there can't be much capacity on those.


Wembley is not in a great area and is not that easy to get to on matchday for those who are coming by road - I was brought up just outside London but not on the obvious rail links to Wembley, so I have had many unhappy hours sat in traffic queues waiting for coaches to go. Paddington Bear, assume you're referring to the decent rail links? Wembley has decent TFL links, and is definitely much better in that regard than Twickenham - although in fairness it could hardly have worse.

If a short-term alternative was needed whilst the bodges at HQ are sorted I was wondering if something like the London Stadium in Stratford would be a goer, but it (and White Hart Lane as another potential) are nowhere near the capacity of Wembley or HQ. Or, heaven forbid, have matches at Old Trafford etc.

[inactionman]

I'm sure someone has done the sums, but I'd love to see a breakdown of what £663m is actually for. Seems like an awful lot.

Gold-plated hospitality box toilets most likely.

It wont be on bars that you don't need the patience of a saint and the second mortgage to get a beer from.



The numbers are mad. The whole Wembley redevelopment came in at around £1B and that was a mental number, but that was for pretty much complete rebuild and a load of transport link development.

[Lobby]

What I'm reading is that he RFU screwed up the (relatively recent?) previous developments as it had no overarching plan. Excellent lads, well played yet again.

I do think the transport needs to be looked into, but you can't help but wonder what the RFU can realistically do about that - it's a huge stadium in a residential suburb with no immediate tube link. Riverboats are an interesting option, at least for getting from central London out, but there can't be much capacity on those.


Wembley is not in a great area and is not that easy to get to on matchday for those who are coming by road - I was brought up just outside London but not on the obvious rail links to Wembley, so I have had many unhappy hours sat in traffic queues waiting for coaches to go. Paddington Bear, assume you're referring to the decent rail links? Wembley has decent TFL links, and is definitely much better in that regard than Twickenham - although in fairness it could hardly have worse.

If a short-term alternative was needed whilst the bodges at HQ are sorted I was wondering if something like the London Stadium in Stratford would be a goer, but it (and White Hart Lane as another potential) are nowhere near the capacity of Wembley or HQ. Or, heaven forbid, have matches at Old Trafford etc.

Overall capacity at the London Stadium is now about 68,000, so not too far off Twickenham's 80,000, especially as its a struggle to sell out the Stadium for Borethick's England team.

[Paddington Bear]

What I'm reading is that he RFU screwed up the (relatively recent?) previous developments as it had no overarching plan. Excellent lads, well played yet again.

I do think the transport needs to be looked into, but you can't help but wonder what the RFU can realistically do about that - it's a huge stadium in a residential suburb with no immediate tube link. Riverboats are an interesting option, at least for getting from central London out, but there can't be much capacity on those.


Wembley is not in a great area and is not that easy to get to on matchday for those who are coming by road - I was brought up just outside London but not on the obvious rail links to Wembley, so I have had many unhappy hours sat in traffic queues waiting for coaches to go. Paddington Bear, assume you're referring to the decent rail links? Wembley has decent TFL links, and is definitely much better in that regard than Twickenham - although in fairness it could hardly have worse.

If a short-term alternative was needed whilst the bodges at HQ are sorted I was wondering if something like the London Stadium in Stratford would be a goer, but it (and White Hart Lane as another potential) are nowhere near the capacity of Wembley or HQ. Or, heaven forbid, have matches at Old Trafford etc.

Yes, I’m talking public transport. Wembley, in fairness, describes itself as a public transport stadium and encourages people not to drive there. And yes I should declare an interest of an entire life lived within walking distance of stations on the Met Line.

It is much, much more of a dump than Twickenham as an area, I wonder if 10+ rugby matches a year would improve the offerings in the local area? There’s been enormous development and some gentrification round the area in the last decade or so anyway.

Twickenham station’s 2015 ‘upgrade’ remains the most astonishing thing ever - what did they actually do? There’s no prospect of improvement to the Twickenham transport experience

[Sandstorm]

A slightly less shit journey to get there mind.

Depends where you live in relation to London, but Wembley or Twickenham are both rather shite to get to and home again afterwards.
Wembley in-stadium bars are far superior to Twickers at present. Renovation is overdue.
At least the surrounding pubs in Twickenham aren't all dive-bars.

[Paddington Bear]

A slightly less shit journey to get there mind.

Depends where you live in relation to London, but Wembley or Twickenham are both rather shite to get to and home again afterwards.
Wembley in-stadium bars are far superior to Twickers at present. Renovation is overdue.
At least the surrounding pubs in Twickenham aren't all dive-bars.

I’d argue that for pretty much everyone not in SW London/Windsor way Wembley is easier to get to. It’s one tube or train from every major terminus bar Victoria

[inactionman]

A slightly less shit journey to get there mind.

Depends where you live in relation to London, but Wembley or Twickenham are both rather shite to get to and home again afterwards.
Wembley in-stadium bars are far superior to Twickers at present. Renovation is overdue.
At least the surrounding pubs in Twickenham aren't all dive-bars.

I’d argue that for pretty much everyone not in SW London/Windsor way Wembley is easier to get to. It’s one tube or train from every major terminus bar Victoria

The bit that made it tricky when I was in Essex was the number of required changes. I went with my youth football team and it was easier to hire a coach than get a bunch of teenage kids into, across and back out of London by train.

The issue was pretty much the same for Twickenham, but getting there by coach was a lot easier.

It's a bit of an edge case, but I'd still anticipate a number of local clubs would run coaches.

[Hal Jordan]

I'm sure someone has done the sums, but I'd love to see a breakdown of what £663m is actually for. Seems like an awful lot.

Jet-propelled Guided NAAFI.

[Sandstorm]

I'm sure someone has done the sums, but I'd love to see a breakdown of what £663m is actually for. Seems like an awful lot.

Jet-propelled Guided NAAFI.

The whole thing is going to covered in ACM cladding.

[Biffer]

I can imagine there was substantial harrumphing around the table during those discussions.

[Hal Jordan]

From those who were awake, anyway.

[Paddington Bear]

Depends where you live in relation to London, but Wembley or Twickenham are both rather shite to get to and home again afterwards.
Wembley in-stadium bars are far superior to Twickers at present. Renovation is overdue.
At least the surrounding pubs in Twickenham aren't all dive-bars.

I’d argue that for pretty much everyone not in SW London/Windsor way Wembley is easier to get to. It’s one tube or train from every major terminus bar Victoria

The bit that made it tricky when I was in Essex was the number of required changes. I went with my youth football team and it was easier to hire a coach than get a bunch of teenage kids into, across and back out of London by train.

The issue was pretty much the same for Twickenham, but getting there by coach was a lot easier.

It's a bit of an edge case, but I'd still anticipate a number of local clubs would run coaches.

Met line from Liverpool Street? I appreciate with a large group and kids these things are easier said than done, and yes the lack of orbital rail round London is an issue full stop.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Wembley is a nice stadium in a shit part of town. Twickenham is a shit stadium in a nice part of town.

It's easier to fix the stadium than the neighbourhood.

[ASMO]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

[Biffer]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

[inactionman]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

The train services are undersized for demand, and they more than just Twickenham rugby traffic. Sidings at Twickenham only go so far when there's queues around the block at Clapham Junction.

Most times I go we'd have beers in Richmond and walk (if I wasn't staying at my brother''s flat in Twickenham), but not everyone has luxury of time. The problem is it's not near the centre of town, and London being what it is means that many will arrive into e.g. Kings Cross and have to get across town - a very, very large and busy town - to one of a few stopping off points. In Edinburgh speak, it's like pretty much everyone having to get the exact same connecting train from Waverley, Haymarket, Airport and Edinburgh Parkway.

[inactionman]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

They already do football parties down the Thames, which I'd imagine have got the river police well practiced.

[Biffer]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

The train services are undersized for demand, and they more than just Twickenham rugby traffic. Sidings at Twickenham only go so far when there's queues around the block at Clapham Junction.

Most times I go we'd have beers in Richmond and walk (if I wasn't staying at my brother''s flat in Twickenham), but not everyone has luxury of time. The problem is it's not near the centre of town, and London being what it is means that many will arrive into e.g. Kings Cross and have to get across town - a very, very large and busy town - to one of a few stopping off points. In Edinburgh speak, it's like pretty much everyone having to get the exact same connecting train from Waverley, Haymarket, Airport and Edinburgh Parkway.

Yeah, it's an infrastructure problem about how shit our trains are, and how we don't change service for events. It's not beyond the wit of man to have small trains running from the sidings at Twickenham station into Waterloo / Victoria / wherever the hell that line goes in addition to standard services and cancel some other services on the line that saturday. An d have extra trains through Hounslow as well. But we just won't do it.

[Paddington Bear]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

All of these are suburban stations, completely unsuited to matchday crush. SWR tend to not give a shit that there’s a match on, and so it always seems to be a very off-peak service. Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

Basically these trains and stations lack the capacity needed, they’re suburban lines and about the slowest of them. They only go in to a couple of termini, which doesn’t help. It is quicker for me to get to Villa Park by public transport from home, and I live within the M25

[Biffer]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

All of these are suburban stations, completely unsuited to matchday crush. SWR tend to not give a shit that there’s a match on, and so it always seems to be a very off-peak service. Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

Basically these trains and stations lack the capacity needed, they’re suburban lines and about the slowest of them. They only go in to a couple of termini, which doesn’t help. It is quicker for me to get to Villa Park by public transport from home, and I live within the M25

I think the 'SWR tend not to give a shit' is the most relevant bit. At Open Golf tournaments, and I think even at the Scottish Open golf, it's not unknown for the LNER east coast main line trains to stop at Drem or Longniddry to move more passengers - don't the trains to Bristol and Exeter run along that line as well?

[inactionman]

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

The train services are undersized for demand, and they more than just Twickenham rugby traffic. Sidings at Twickenham only go so far when there's queues around the block at Clapham Junction.

Most times I go we'd have beers in Richmond and walk (if I wasn't staying at my brother''s flat in Twickenham), but not everyone has luxury of time. The problem is it's not near the centre of town, and London being what it is means that many will arrive into e.g. Kings Cross and have to get across town - a very, very large and busy town - to one of a few stopping off points. In Edinburgh speak, it's like pretty much everyone having to get the exact same connecting train from Waverley, Haymarket, Airport and Edinburgh Parkway.

Yeah, it's an infrastructure problem about how shit our trains are, and how we don't change service for events. It's not beyond the wit of man to have small trains running from the sidings at Twickenham station into Waterloo / Victoria / wherever the hell that line goes in addition to standard services and cancel some other services on the line that saturday. An d have extra trains through Hounslow as well. But we just won't do it.

If there's no line or available slot for the trains to run on then the sidings aren't much use. There are additional train services on matchday, the problem is they're simply inadequate for demand. Whether they're optimal is another question, but the fact remains it's limited in capacity and is part of an already busy network.


It comes back to the same issue - it's a huge stadium in a highly residential area, with only relatively small suburban transport links. If Twickenham stadium didn't exist and we were to build a national rugby stadium now, there's no way you'd choose the build the stadium there.

[inactionman]

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

All of these are suburban stations, completely unsuited to matchday crush. SWR tend to not give a shit that there’s a match on, and so it always seems to be a very off-peak service. Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

Basically these trains and stations lack the capacity needed, they’re suburban lines and about the slowest of them. They only go in to a couple of termini, which doesn’t help. It is quicker for me to get to Villa Park by public transport from home, and I live within the M25

I think the 'SWR tend not to give a shit' is the most relevant bit. At Open Golf tournaments, and I think even at the Scottish Open golf, it's not unknown for the LNER east coast main line trains to stop at Drem or Longniddry to move more passengers - don't the trains to Bristol and Exeter run along that line as well?

Not directly - change at Reading to get onto the Great Western.

I'd caveat the 'not give a shit' by 'have other concerns and responsibilities'. The line connects Reading to Waterloo.

[dpedin]

Boat trips like this is what you want?

[Paddington Bear]

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

All of these are suburban stations, completely unsuited to matchday crush. SWR tend to not give a shit that there’s a match on, and so it always seems to be a very off-peak service. Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

Basically these trains and stations lack the capacity needed, they’re suburban lines and about the slowest of them. They only go in to a couple of termini, which doesn’t help. It is quicker for me to get to Villa Park by public transport from home, and I live within the M25

I think the 'SWR tend not to give a shit' is the most relevant bit. At Open Golf tournaments, and I think even at the Scottish Open golf, it's not unknown for the LNER east coast main line trains to stop at Drem or Longniddry to move more passengers - don't the trains to Bristol and Exeter run along that line as well?

They could run more trains, it doesn’t change the fact that these are suburban stations. Compare and contrast with Wembley Park, explicitly built to handle matchdays.

The line through Twickenham is the slow line from Reading/Windsor.

[Slick]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

If you think I'm compounding my miserable day by heading to Hounslow for a night out, think again.

[Glaston]

RFU could buy into the new Manchester stadium plan and ground share with Manu

[sockwithaticket]

RFU could buy into the new Manchester stadium plan and ground share with Manu

Don't be silly. The braying red trouser brigade that pay eye watering prices for Twickenham tickets aren't going to travel north of Oxford for the rugger.

[Biffer]

They are talking about using river transport to help with easing the conjestion? That not really a disaster in the making, how many bodies of pissed up supporters will they be pulling out of the river on the day after the game.

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

If you think I'm compounding my miserable day by heading to Hounslow for a night out, think again.

The advice I received from an auld fella at London Scottish about Twickenham was 'dinnae bother, full of wankers'. So have a day out in Richmond and watch it in the clubhouse instead.

[inactionman]

Oh dear.

[SaintK]

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

If you think I'm compounding my miserable day by heading to Hounslow for a night out, think again.

The advice I received from an auld fella at London Scottish about Twickenham was 'dinnae bother, full of wankers'. So have a day out in Richmond and watch it in the clubhouse instead.

He sound like a bit of a twat to me. There have been some right old wankers in the L Scottish clubhouse when I've been there. Not as bad as Old Deer Park mind you

[Slick]

I've never understood the reason the transport is so shit. There are two separate train lines within walking distance, and Twickenham station has a couple of sidings that could be put to use to help run additional services. It's our rail system being a shit show that's the problem really. There are also multiple different areas with pubs / restaurants to head to in Hounslow, Richmond, Twickenham and Isleworth so the crowd that's walking can all disperse in different directions and then there's transport options on from each area.

Or is part of this just that people can't get Jenkins to bring the Bentley right up to the gate?

If you think I'm compounding my miserable day by heading to Hounslow for a night out, think again.

The advice I received from an auld fella at London Scottish about Twickenham was 'dinnae bother, full of wankers'. So have a day out in Richmond and watch it in the clubhouse instead.

Have to say, when I was a regular at Twickenham I loved the pre match in Twickenham and post match in Richmond, a proper rugby day out.

[Sandstorm]

It would be fine if Tests at Twickers kicked off at 3pm instead of 5pm. 1-2 extra hours for fans to grab a pint at the stadium bars, then wander back to the station at your own pace reduces over-crowding on the platforms.

[Hal Jordan]

It would be fine if Tests at Twickers kicked off at 3pm instead of 5pm. 1-2 extra hours for fans to grab a pint at the stadium bars, then wander back to the station at your own pace reduces over-crowding on the platforms.

Late kick offs are also shit if you want to go for dinner afterwards.

[Mahoney]

The line through Twickenham is the slow line from Reading/Windsor.

I don't think I understand the relevance of that; it's slow from Reading/Windsor to Twickenham, but from Twickenham to Waterloo it has regular fast trains, 22 minutes, much the same as Surbiton to Waterloo.

[JM2K6]

Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

It's completely different. Before the work was done it was significantly worse.

[inactionman]

Twickenham itself was allegedly redone for the 2015 WC, but there’s precious little evidence of that.

It's completely different. Before the work was done it was significantly worse.

A lot of the work was relatively cosmetic, although I think they fitted a new footbridge? There may have been some changes to flow through the station, as they dump the rugby crowd out of the side now.

I walk from Richmond, or overnight in Twickenham so haven't used the station on matchday in a while, but even post-2015 it still isn't a great experience.

The bit that would make a real difference would be greater through capacity, but that's a huge thing much bigger than just the station itself.

eta: they also did some work around 2020 but I think that was more around the ticket office and the hotel built over/around the main entrance.

Anyway, it's all too small for what's needed and that's not likely to change.