6 Nations Round 3 - Scotland v England

[Hal Jordan]

Hahahahahaha fucking hell. I thought Toony was kicking the cunt of the capts. You lot have a whole officers mess.

You can never have enough junior executive senior vice-presidents.

[sockwithaticket]

Lawrence - Slade is a more balanced partnership, even if I'd prefer to keep Dingwall at 12 for the tournament and have Lawrence at 13 (where he plays pretty much exclusively for Bath each week...). Discarding players after two caps feels harsh unless they've really fucked up and while Dingwall hasn't stood out positively, I wouldn't say he's done so negatively either. Some players need a few caps to come into their own and I don't see how we fix the English 12 issue by chopping and changing there all the time.

Delighted for Furbank, well deserved. Is Steward injured? Didn't think Borthwick would be minded to drop him.

[inactionman]

Lawrence - Slade is a more balanced partnership, even if I'd prefer to keep Dingwall at 12 for the tournament and have Lawrence at 13 (where he plays pretty much exclusively for Bath each week...). Discarding players after two caps feels harsh unless they've really fucked up and while Dingwall hasn't stood out positively, I wouldn't say he's done so negatively either. Some players need a few caps to come into their own and I don't see how we fix the English 12 issue by chopping and changing there all the time.

Delighted for Furbank, well deserved. Is Steward injured? Didn't think Borthwick would be minded to drop him.

I think Dingwall was keeping the shirt warm for injury returners, you'd expect he'd only retain his spot if his performances were considered better than the returning incumbents. He's not done badly but Lawrence was starting to hit his straps before his injury so no surprise to see him straight back in.

It's a bit different to the almost random chop-and-change under Jones. Thank God.

Agree re Furbank, Saints look to be purring in attack and there's a chance of him, Freeman and Smith all on the pitch - it's not that often we get club combinations in the England team and I;d wonder if this palys into Borthwicks; thinking? I actually thought Steward showed a lot more attacking and running intent this season but Furbank does look one of the form 15s.

[Slick]

Beautiful evening for rugby forecast for Saturday

[robmatic]

Scotland team to face England at Scottish Gas Murrayfield in the Guinness Men’s Six Nations on Saturday 24 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC One (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (50)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (16)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (45)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (24)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (36)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (77)
9. Ben White – Toulon (20)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (28)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (42)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (64)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (69)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (35)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (47)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (16)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (17)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (14)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (2)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (1)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
20. Andy Christie – Saracens (5)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (27)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (11)

Ritchie strolls back into the team after Embra got blown away at the breakdown by Zebre last weekend.

[Hal Jordan]

Beautiful evening for rugby forecast for Saturday

All the better to see the ball tumbling out of the sky.

[petej]

Lawrence - Slade is a more balanced partnership, even if I'd prefer to keep Dingwall at 12 for the tournament and have Lawrence at 13 (where he plays pretty much exclusively for Bath each week...). Discarding players after two caps feels harsh unless they've really fucked up and while Dingwall hasn't stood out positively, I wouldn't say he's done so negatively either. Some players need a few caps to come into their own and I don't see how we fix the English 12 issue by chopping and changing there all the time.

Delighted for Furbank, well deserved. Is Steward injured? Didn't think Borthwick would be minded to drop him.

I think Dingwall was keeping the shirt warm for injury returners, you'd expect he'd only retain his spot if his performances were considered better than the returning incumbents. He's not done badly but Lawrence was starting to hit his straps before his injury so no surprise to see him straight back in.

It's a bit different to the almost random chop-and-change under Jones. Thank God.

Agree re Furbank, Saints look to be purring in attack and there's a chance of him, Freeman and Smith all on the pitch - it's not that often we get club combinations in the England team and I;d wonder if this palys into Borthwicks; thinking? I actually thought Steward showed a lot more attacking and running intent this season but Furbank does look one of the form 15s.

Surprised to see Steward dropped as he has that key skill of being good at chasing and catching kicks but Daly has had some truly eye catching moments as has Slade hence why Dingwall makes way. Cole to anchor the scrum and add some dynamism to the pack.

[Tichtheid]

Scotland team to face England at Scottish Gas Murrayfield in the Guinness Men’s Six Nations on Saturday 24 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC One (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (50)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (16)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (45)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (24)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (36)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (77)
9. Ben White – Toulon (20)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (28)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (42)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (64)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (69)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (35)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (47)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (16)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (17)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (14)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (2)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (1)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
20. Andy Christie – Saracens (5)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (27)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (11)

Ritchie strolls back into the team after Embra got blown away at the breakdown by Zebre last weekend.

To be fair to him he won four turnovers at the breakdown in that match and someone on the Weedgie bored said that his tackle and dominate tackle counts were high.
Toonie said that he had carried well in that match, too. He's no Jasper Weise, but to be honest we don't have any players that carry like Weise

[Slick]

Beautiful evening for rugby forecast for Saturday

All the better to see the ball tumbling out of the sky.

[Paddington Bear]

Interesting game.
England win and there’s real opportunities, lose and we’re staring down the barrel of another very poor 6N.

Scotland win and they’ve still got a shot at the title, losing is surely the end of the road for Townsend.

I feel remarkably good about England’s chances. England by 6

[petej]

Beautiful evening for rugby forecast for Saturday

All the better to see the ball tumbling out of the sky.

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

[Raggs]

All the better to see the ball tumbling out of the sky.

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

I really don't see us dropping the attacking intent we've been showing so far. Especially with Lawrence and Furbank in place, if anything that suggests a doubling down on it. I have no doubt we'll still be kicking plenty, especially to Freeman, but I suspect we'll go through the phases too. Genge starting is another boost to our carrying options as well.

[weegie01]

Interesting game.
England win and there’s real opportunities, lose and we’re staring down the barrel of another very poor 6N.

Scotland win and they’ve still got a shot at the title, losing is surely the end of the road for Townsend.

I feel remarkably good about England’s chances. England by 6

Some may say one of the best generations of Scotland players have under achieved on Townsends his watch. But he signed a new contract after the last 6N. he is not going anywhere as long as we achieve mid table mediocrity.

[Tichtheid]

Townsend has the highest win percentage of any Scotland coach going back to the 1970s. That hasn't included any silverware of course, apart from the Calcutta Cup that is.

I always think the tables don't lie, we are around the 6th best team in the world, but the likes of England and France have a much higher ceiling than we do, we have never beaten New Zealand and we can't get close to Ireland or South Africa at the moment, but we are ranked far higher than we have been in the professional era. Yeah we got a shite draw at the last World Cup, but that was because we lost to Japan at the previous one.

The reason we haven't won a six nations is because our players haven't been good enough, our Lions contingents have reflected that with perhaps one or two exceptions but when the coach is making a close choice between a Scotland player and a player from a winning team, it's obvious who is going to get the nod.

We have serious structural problems in Scotland, only one of the two pro teams is ever a challenger in the league, but they are not a serious player in Europe. It seems to me that we started from a long way back in professional rugby, there are still those in clubland Scotland who oppose it because it downgraded the status of their clubs, and for every step forward we take others are doing the same, but from a long head start.

I believe we have a puncher's chance of beating anyone in the Six Nations bar Ireland, we'd need to have a very different pack to win in Dublin, but I think we will win on Saturday, our back line is very strong, even without Darcy Graham and I don't think England have the relentless physicality that South Africa and Ireland bring to the table.

[JM2K6]

Lawrence - Slade is a more balanced partnership, even if I'd prefer to keep Dingwall at 12 for the tournament and have Lawrence at 13 (where he plays pretty much exclusively for Bath each week...). Discarding players after two caps feels harsh unless they've really fucked up and while Dingwall hasn't stood out positively, I wouldn't say he's done so negatively either. Some players need a few caps to come into their own and I don't see how we fix the English 12 issue by chopping and changing there all the time.

Delighted for Furbank, well deserved. Is Steward injured? Didn't think Borthwick would be minded to drop him.

Dingwall's tale of the tape - 8 missed tackles and 3 turnovers conceded in two matches. Six metres made with ball in hand. He was essentially wasting everyone's time.

[Slick]

Interesting game.
England win and there’s real opportunities, lose and we’re staring down the barrel of another very poor 6N.

Scotland win and they’ve still got a shot at the title, losing is surely the end of the road for Townsend.

I feel remarkably good about England’s chances. England by 6

Some may say one of the best generations of Scotland players have under achieved on Townsends his watch. But he signed a new contract after the last 6N. he is not going anywhere as long as we achieve mid table mediocrity.

I don't agree at all with the first statement, it has been the best period of watching Scotland in my lifetime and I don't think anyone would have done better. However, it's the same things over and over that means we lose close matches and despite being a big fan of Townsend I do think that if we lose on Saturday he has to do the decent thing and move on after this 6N and give someone else a chance.

[Paddington Bear]

All the better to see the ball tumbling out of the sky.

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

[SaintK]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Quite
England by 9

[Raggs]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Especially when we've clearly been a lot more ambitious ball in hand than in recent times. I mean it's not necessarily worked that well, but we're trying.

[Slick]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Oh come on! It's night and day with regards to attacking intent, not just this 6N but over the last few years. Back of the class for you.

Scotland by 19 tries to 1

[Paddington Bear]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Oh come on! It's night and day with regards to attacking intent, not just this 6N but over the last few years. Back of the class for you.

Scotland by 19 tries to 1

No dispute about the last few years, I don’t see it this 6N. As Raggs mentioned we’re showing ambition, it just isn’t clicking. Hard to tell if it might have done if we hadn’t had two yellows at the start of the Wales game

[Biffer]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Especially when we've clearly been a lot more ambitious ball in hand than in recent times. I mean it's not necessarily worked that well, but we're trying.

Let's be honest, 'more ambitious' is a pretty low bar for you guys though.

[JM2K6]

Let's be real here, we're showing more ambition than previously under Borthwick but it's still been some of the most conservative rugby we've played in decades. When your comparison is the most negative team we've had in the professional era, anything looks better.

The fact that it's incredibly stilted isn't a positive either, nor does it say much about the coaching staff.

Still, the team looks better balanced now and there's some good players, so maybe we will actually do something. I still fear for our defence against that Scottish back line though.

[ASMO]

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Especially when we've clearly been a lot more ambitious ball in hand than in recent times. I mean it's not necessarily worked that well, but we're trying.

Let's be honest, 'more ambitious' is a pretty low bar for you guys though.

Ambitious for England is that the ball makes it to the inside center before it is booted down the field.

[Raggs]

Let's be real here, we're showing more ambition than previously under Borthwick but it's still been some of the most conservative rugby we've played in decades. When your comparison is the most negative team we've had in the professional era, anything looks better.

The fact that it's incredibly stilted isn't a positive either, nor does it say much about the coaching staff.

Still, the team looks better balanced now and there's some good players, so maybe we will actually do something. I still fear for our defence against that Scottish back line though.

You think it's more conservative than half of what we did under Eddie? Lancaster went from extremes. I struggle to recall, thankfully, and didn't watch too much, but Johnson wasn't exactly flair either I believe? It's stilted, and not going smoothly, but it hasn't felt ridiculously conservative, just poorly executed.

[inactionman]

The choices at 12 and 15 bode well.

The most effective game of late was in the one where we showed pretty much sweet FA in attack - the South Africa semi-final - and although it was clear Borthwick wasn't going to rock boats going into a WC I did have half a worry that we'd take that approach as a template. I'm hoping - and it is indeed looking like - that was just a game-plan for a time, place and opponent and for the squad at that time. Changes to the squad - forced and unforced - feel in some cases like a breath of fresh air and I'm cautiously positive.

I'm hopeful we'll see some decent rugby, and I can see it being close. And please, please no stupid red cards.

[KingBlairhorn]

Scotland team to face England at Scottish Gas Murrayfield in the Guinness Men’s Six Nations on Saturday 24 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC One (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (50)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (16)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (45)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (24)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (36)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (77)
9. Ben White – Toulon (20)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (28)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (42)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (64)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (69)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (35)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (47)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (16)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (17)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (14)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (2)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (1)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
20. Andy Christie – Saracens (5)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (27)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (11)

Ritchie strolls back into the team after Embra got blown away at the breakdown by Zebre last weekend.

To be fair to him he won four turnovers at the breakdown in that match and someone on the Weedgie bored said that his tackle and dominate tackle counts were high.
Toonie said that he had carried well in that match, too. He's no Jasper Weise, but to be honest we don't have any players that carry like Weise

Richie is a very good 6 and an average 7. I am quite comfortable with him at 6 in this match with Darge taking on the specialist breakdown role.

[Slick]

The choices at 12 and 15 bode well.

The most effective game of late was in the one where we showed pretty much sweet FA in attack - the South Africa semi-final - and although it was clear Borthwick wasn't going to rock boats going into a WC I did have half a worry that we'd take that approach as a template. I'm hoping - and it is indeed looking like - that was just a game-plan for a time, place and opponent and for the squad at that time. Changes to the squad - forced and unforced - feel in some cases like a breath of fresh air and I'm cautiously positive.

I'm hopeful we'll see some decent rugby, and I can see it being close. And please, please no stupid red cards.

Agree with this. Hopefully Borthwick gets a chance to develop his team now.

[Begbie]

Scotland team to face England at Scottish Gas Murrayfield in the Guinness Men’s Six Nations on Saturday 24 February, kick-off 4.45pm – live on BBC One (caps in brackets):

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (50)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (16)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (45)
12. Sione Tuipulotu – Vice-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (24)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (36)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (77)
9. Ben White – Toulon (20)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (28)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (42)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (64)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby (69)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (35)
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (47)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (16)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (17)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (14)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (2)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (1)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (32)
20. Andy Christie – Saracens (5)
21. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (27)
22. Ben Healy – Edinburgh Rugby (4)
23. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (11)

Ritchie strolls back into the team after Embra got blown away at the breakdown by Zebre last weekend.

To be fair to him he won four turnovers at the breakdown in that match and someone on the Weedgie bored said that his tackle and dominate tackle counts were high.
Toonie said that he had carried well in that match, too. He's no Jasper Weise, but to be honest we don't have any players that carry like Weise

Aye, and Toony said yesterday he's back in because of his work at the breakdown. I didn't see the Zebre game, so can't comment on how he went, but he's topping the turnover stats in the URC with 11. He needs a big game to get some fans back on side, ideal opportunity tomorrow.

[Jock42]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

Oh come on! It's night and day with regards to attacking intent, not just this 6N but over the last few years. Back of the class for you.

Scotland by 19 tries to 1

I've no time for this sort of pessimism.

[C T]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

To be fair, England games over the past couple of years have been close to making my eyes bleed.

They've not been a million miles away from the utter dross served up by Scotland the the Dan Parks era.

I hope you're right, but it'll take more than two games against fairly average opposition to kill the "Dull England" tag.

And by "Hope you're right", I do, I genuinely do, but kindly improve while still keeping the Calcutta cup competitive please.

[Paddington Bear]

There is a very real chance England can shit house their way to a win. A turgid 10-15 with 3 pens and 2 drop goals.

It’s a little tedious hearing all the talk of how little rugby England play, when Scotland have kicked far more than us and had a period vs France where 28 of the players could have had a cup of tea

To be fair, England games over the past couple of years have been close to making my eyes bleed.

They've not been a million miles away from the utter dross served up by Scotland the the Dan Parks era.

I hope you're right, but it'll take more than two games against fairly average opposition to kill the "Dull England" tag.

And by "Hope you're right", I do, I genuinely do, but kindly improve while still keeping the Calcutta cup competitive please.

Referred to before, but the ‘eyes bleed’ stuff has been massively overdone. England have been serving up bog standard 6N rugby during that time. Nothing more, nothing less.
And yes, it has been good to see Scotland emerge from the Dan Parks years into the spiritual guardians of running rugby that they are today.

[Yr Alban]

Townsend has the highest win percentage of any Scotland coach going back to the 1970s. That hasn't included any silverware of course, apart from the Calcutta Cup that is.

I always think the tables don't lie, we are around the 6th best team in the world, but the likes of England and France have a much higher ceiling than we do, we have never beaten New Zealand and we can't get close to Ireland or South Africa at the moment, but we are ranked far higher than we have been in the professional era. Yeah we got a shite draw at the last World Cup, but that was because we lost to Japan at the previous one.

The reason we haven't won a six nations is because our players haven't been good enough, our Lions contingents have reflected that with perhaps one or two exceptions but when the coach is making a close choice between a Scotland player and a player from a winning team, it's obvious who is going to get the nod.

We have serious structural problems in Scotland, only one of the two pro teams is ever a challenger in the league, but they are not a serious player in Europe. It seems to me that we started from a long way back in professional rugby, there are still those in clubland Scotland who oppose it because it downgraded the status of their clubs, and for every step forward we take others are doing the same, but from a long head start.

I believe we have a puncher's chance of beating anyone in the Six Nations bar Ireland, we'd need to have a very different pack to win in Dublin, but I think we will win on Saturday, our back line is very strong, even without Darcy Graham and I don't think England have the relentless physicality that South Africa and Ireland bring to the table.

Much as I agree with most of that, I think it’s harsh to say that we haven’t won a 6N because our players haven’t been good enough. Other sides with no more talent (and possibly less) than we have right now have won titles in the last 20 years. We haven’t won largely due to lack of consistency, and partly poor timing (not coming good in a year when nobody else was dominant). Right now, we would be in with a shout if it weren’t for the fact Ireland are going to steamroller everyone.

[Tichtheid]

Townsend has the highest win percentage of any Scotland coach going back to the 1970s. That hasn't included any silverware of course, apart from the Calcutta Cup that is.

I always think the tables don't lie, we are around the 6th best team in the world, but the likes of England and France have a much higher ceiling than we do, we have never beaten New Zealand and we can't get close to Ireland or South Africa at the moment, but we are ranked far higher than we have been in the professional era. Yeah we got a shite draw at the last World Cup, but that was because we lost to Japan at the previous one.

The reason we haven't won a six nations is because our players haven't been good enough, our Lions contingents have reflected that with perhaps one or two exceptions but when the coach is making a close choice between a Scotland player and a player from a winning team, it's obvious who is going to get the nod.

We have serious structural problems in Scotland, only one of the two pro teams is ever a challenger in the league, but they are not a serious player in Europe. It seems to me that we started from a long way back in professional rugby, there are still those in clubland Scotland who oppose it because it downgraded the status of their clubs, and for every step forward we take others are doing the same, but from a long head start.

I believe we have a puncher's chance of beating anyone in the Six Nations bar Ireland, we'd need to have a very different pack to win in Dublin, but I think we will win on Saturday, our back line is very strong, even without Darcy Graham and I don't think England have the relentless physicality that South Africa and Ireland bring to the table.

Much as I agree with most of that, I think it’s harsh to say that we haven’t won a 6N because our players haven’t been good enough. Other sides with no more talent (and possibly less) than we have right now have won titles in the last 20 years. We haven’t won largely due to lack of consistency, and partly poor timing (not coming good in a year when nobody else was dominant). Right now, we would be in with a shout if it weren’t for the fact Ireland are going to steamroller everyone.

I've just had a look at the tables so no one else has to put themselves through it, if I've counted correctly we have "won" the wooden spoon 4 times, we've been fifth 7 times, fourth 7 times and third (our highest finish) 3 times.
From 2020, with our best ever teams, we've finished 4th, 4th, 4th and 3rd.

To my mind that is not the record of a team that has quality and depth, even our poor cousins in Italy have had good players - Castro, the mighty Sergio and now Cappuozzo, we've had stronger sides than Italy but not by that much. In the early days of the 6N we could field a decent pack but couldn't buy a try, now that we've got a back line we can't stand up to a team that has real power. We regularly over estimate our backrow.
We've had good players across the years, the likes of Mike Blair would improve most teams, no one will convince me that Euan Murray was a dirt tracker for the Lions in South Africa, even the Bok captain Matfield revealed the joy they felt when Murray was selected for the midweek team, then got injured out of the tour - Rowntree made the wrong call there.

The point I'm trying to make is that we've never had a core of real quality - you need at least nine or ten by my reckoning, then you can get away with slightly lower quality elsewhere - you don't get many teams like the peak ABs of the Carter McCaw era where practically every player is in the World XV to face Mars.

[LenCohen]

Currently, we have somehow managed to cobble together a very good team which is capable of playing some of the most entertaining rugby you will ever see (helps to have Scotland's most talented player ever at 10). Not sure why we can't just enjoy it while it lasts. Nothing in the tiny world of Scottish rugby suggests we should have any expectation of winning tournaments.

[Biffer]

Currently, we have somehow managed to cobble together a very good team which is capable of playing some of the most entertaining rugby you will ever see (helps to have Scotland's most talented player ever at 10). Not sure why we can't just enjoy it while it lasts. Nothing in the tiny world of Scottish rugby suggests we should have any expectation of winning tournaments.

There’s a difference between having expectations and having ambitions.

There are a hell of a lot of people who go to Murrayfield, watch a game like the France game and come away chuckling and chattering without any sense of disappointment. I don’t understand that.

It’s patently ridiculous to say we shouldn’t be disappointed at not going to Dublin for a Grand Slam match this year. None of us would have expected us to win, but being in the championship decider in the last week this year was still a reasonable thing to have on your horizon.

[LenCohen]

Aye well I think not taking sport too seriously and not letting it affect your life is a healthy, normal way to be.

[Biffer]

Aye well I think not taking sport too seriously and not letting it affect your life is a healthy, normal way to be.

That’s a hell of a leap from what I said. Disappointed about a result isn’t someone’s life going to pieces. These things are analogue.

[JM2K6]

Let's be real here, we're showing more ambition than previously under Borthwick but it's still been some of the most conservative rugby we've played in decades. When your comparison is the most negative team we've had in the professional era, anything looks better.

The fact that it's incredibly stilted isn't a positive either, nor does it say much about the coaching staff.

Still, the team looks better balanced now and there's some good players, so maybe we will actually do something. I still fear for our defence against that Scottish back line though.

You think it's more conservative than half of what we did under Eddie? Lancaster went from extremes. I struggle to recall, thankfully, and didn't watch too much, but Johnson wasn't exactly flair either I believe? It's stilted, and not going smoothly, but it hasn't felt ridiculously conservative, just poorly executed.

Yes, I do. I wouldn't have said it otherwise.

[ASMO]

I think Boredthick exhausted his total vocabulary in that interview.