Kicking off in Israel

[Ymx]

I managed to find this video, and it’s posted by Britain First.

Peaceful protestors.



“Hamas is my brother “

[C69]

You support Britain First or agree with their sentiments?

[SaintK]

You support Britain First or agree with their sentiments?

Don't engage with the arsehole. He's a trolling piece of shit

[Ymx]

You support Britain First or agree with their sentiments?

I wasn’t saying either. I was just posting that video of the peaceful protestors so others can make their own assessment.

Peaceful protests…

[C69]

You support Britain First or agree with their sentiments?

I wasn’t saying either. I was just posting that video of the peaceful protestors so others can make their own assessment.

Peaceful protests…

I would suggest if you post videos from racist and fascists and neo-nazi groups then you are a fucking nut job.
Do you know what Britain First stand for?

[Ymx]

You support Britain First or agree with their sentiments?

I wasn’t saying either. I was just posting that video of the peaceful protestors so others can make their own assessment.

Peaceful protests…

I would suggest if you post videos from racist and fascists and neo-nazi groups then you are a fucking nut job.
Do you know what Britain First stand for?

I did it as a poke to TH.

Although I’d suggest the video is real enough, irrespective of who recorded and posted it.

That was the main point.

What did you think of the video ?

[Tichtheid]

I wasn’t saying either. I was just posting that video of the peaceful protestors so others can make their own assessment.

Peaceful protests…

I would suggest if you post videos from racist and fascists and neo-nazi groups then you are a fucking nut job.
Do you know what Britain First stand for?

I did it as a poke to TH.

What are you, four feet three tall or something?

So many whooshes (that was just so the first part didn't go over your head)

[petej]

I managed to find this video, and it’s posted by Britain First.

Peaceful protestors.



“Hamas is my brother “

Extremist thick twats can find other extremist thick twats and post it on a social media site that normal people now mostly avoid due to it being dominated by extremist thick twats that algorithms on it promote content posted by extremist thick twats. With a population of 70million odd even if extremist thick twats are 1% of the population that is still 700,000 people.

[C69]

I wasn’t saying either. I was just posting that video of the peaceful protestors so others can make their own assessment.

Peaceful protests…

I would suggest if you post videos from racist and fascists and neo-nazi groups then you are a fucking nut job.
Do you know what Britain First stand for?

I did it as a poke to TH.

Although I’d suggest the video is real enough, irrespective of who recorded and posted it.

That was the main point.

What did you think of the video ?

So let me get this right, you have no issue in posting videos from this organisation. Is that correct?
And you will continue to do so.
My own personal view point is Hamas and the IDF are brutal killers who should be eradicated.

[Ymx]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

[Calculon]

If the IDF is eradicated it means the end of Israel and Jews being ethnically cleansed from the Middle East. A repeat of October 7th, without the Israelis being able to defend themselves, and until none of them are left. C69 is fully aware of that

[C T]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

OK. If we are seeking to have an honest discussion, I'll provide my views. Sinking feeling as I type that I'm falling into a trap.

Hamas may be terrorists to us, however they do have support from a fair amount of Palestinians. I accept I'm no expert, but Israel have to take some responsibility for this. Prior to the 7th of Oct they've been doing some stuff that at best could be considered unkind, surely driving support to Hamas?

In terms of civilian deaths, I think the IDF are trying to do the bare minimum to keep on the right side of their important allies, and they're failing at that.

Hamas are horrendous, they can't hide amongst civilians and scream about genocide when civilians die. However, and I might be being a bit flippant here, but I'm pretty sure all the women and children that are dying aren't Hamas.

So in summary I've got very mixed views on this.

Israel can't pretend that this only started on the 7th of Oct, Hamas can't pretend that their tactics are not causing civilian deaths.

Further to this I can't shake the feeling that the IDF are using a much more scattergun approach than is needed, safe in the knowledge that they can just say it's Hamas' fault.

I'm starting to find myself thinking that both sides deserve each other.

Not sure we should be trusting numbers coming from either side though.

[Tilly Orifice]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

OK. If we are seeking to have an honest discussion, I'll provide my views. Sinking feeling as I type that I'm falling into a trap.

Hamas may be terrorists to us, however they do have support from a fair amount of Palestinians. I accept I'm no expert, but Israel have to take some responsibility for this. Prior to the 7th of Oct they've been doing some stuff that at best could be considered unkind, surely driving support to Hamas?

In terms of civilian deaths, I think the IDF are trying to do the bare minimum to keep on the right side of their important allies, and they're failing at that.

Hamas are horrendous, they can't hide amongst civilians and scream about genocide when civilians die. However, and I might be being a bit flippant here, but I'm pretty sure all the women and children that are dying aren't Hamas.

So in summary I've got very mixed views on this.

Israel can't pretend that this only started on the 7th of Oct, Hamas can't pretend that their tactics are not causing civilian deaths.

Further to this I can't shake the feeling that the IDF are using a much more scattergun approach than is needed, safe in the knowledge that they can just say it's Hamas' fault.

I'm starting to find myself thinking that both sides deserve each other.

Not sure we should be trusting numbers coming from either side though.

There's a lot of decency in this post, though I cant say it's exactly how I'd choose to sum up a situation in which an imprisoned and brutalised population are now being killed in the tens of thousands by the army of the occupying power.

[Sandstorm]

Further to this I can't shake the feeling that the IDF are using a much more scattergun approach than is needed, safe in the knowledge that they can just say it's Hamas' fault.

Be interesting for someone knowledgeable to rate the current generation of IDF soldiers against previous ones. Are the current crop of kids with guns as well-trained and battle hardened as their older brothers and sisters? Are they more trigger-happy, etc? Are more civilians dying as a result?

[petej]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

It is a tiny number of people protesting and they are allowed to protest.

It is a millenia old conflict and unfortunately and many people on both sides will be dragged into it. It is very sad and depressing and there is no obvious solution when you look at the region and see the leadership and role of religion

[C69]

If the IDF is eradicated it means the end of Israel and Jews being ethnically cleansed from the Middle East. A repeat of October 7th, without the Israelis being able to defend themselves, and until none of them are left. C69 is fully aware of that

Rubbish, it is a toxic racist genocidal institutonally racist organisation.
It needs to be scrapped and reconstructed and built up again as a normal army without it's political and racist agenda.

[Ymx]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

OK. If we are seeking to have an honest discussion, I'll provide my views. Sinking feeling as I type that I'm falling into a trap.

Hamas may be terrorists to us, however they do have support from a fair amount of Palestinians. I accept I'm no expert, but Israel have to take some responsibility for this. Prior to the 7th of Oct they've been doing some stuff that at best could be considered unkind, surely driving support to Hamas?

In terms of civilian deaths, I think the IDF are trying to do the bare minimum to keep on the right side of their important allies, and they're failing at that.

Hamas are horrendous, they can't hide amongst civilians and scream about genocide when civilians die. However, and I might be being a bit flippant here, but I'm pretty sure all the women and children that are dying aren't Hamas.

So in summary I've got very mixed views on this.

Israel can't pretend that this only started on the 7th of Oct, Hamas can't pretend that their tactics are not causing civilian deaths.

Further to this I can't shake the feeling that the IDF are using a much more scattergun approach than is needed, safe in the knowledge that they can just say it's Hamas' fault.

I'm starting to find myself thinking that both sides deserve each other.

Not sure we should be trusting numbers coming from either side though.

Actually, I’m pleased you posted. We could do with more open posts like this

I kind of agree with pretty much all of it.

I don’t think they are doing minimal however, as it’s extremely difficult- and made that way deliberately. The ratio of civilians to combatants is actually low for a conflict, so it’s not statistically suggesting this either. As soon as they err, it is leapt upon, with slatherings of cursing as being devils. As soon as it’s clarified as not being as bad as made out, the world has moved on, damage done.

Bibi will have to go once this conflict is over. There is no way anyone will negotiate with him afterwards. But I think he’s had to do what he’s doing, and has to see it through until Hamas no longer control any of Gaza and have been liquidated.

[Uncle fester]

I meant what do you think about guys like him in protests around European cities?

Putting all trolling aside …

You think the IDF should be eradicated? Do you think the IDF are deliberately trying to kill civilians?

I don’t. I think they have an extremely difficult job to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas dressing and attacking dressed as civilians. Hamas embedding themselves. Palestinian people hiding Hamas and weapons, cheering them on. Hamas sending volumes of fake atrocities, silicone dolls, dead people who blink, fake blood. I mean, Mr fafo. And I see many lapping it up.

It’s been called a genocide as a norm now. The lie repeated so many times that people don’t even get pulled up on it anymore.

The numbers being published are from Hamas. They don’t recognise Hamas deaths.

So that’s what I think.

It is a tiny number of people protesting and they are allowed to protest.

It is a millenia old conflict and unfortunately and many people on both sides will be dragged into it. It is very sad and depressing and there is no obvious solution when you look at the region and see the leadership and role of religion

This iteration of it isn't.
Zionism is a relatively new concept in historical terms and this is the root cause of the conflict as settlers come in and push the previous occupants into smaller and smaller parcels of land.

[C69]

The well known anti Semite Chuck Schumer stated earlier today that Israel is becoming a pariah state and calls for an election in Israel.

[Sandstorm]

The well known anti Semite Chuck Schumer stated earlier today that Israel is becoming a pariah state and calls for an election in Israel.

Are Israelis marching in the streets calling for a cease-fire? Is there evidence that a different Cabinet will withdraw their troops?

[Guy Smiley]

The well known anti Semite Chuck Schumer stated earlier today that Israel is becoming a pariah state and calls for an election in Israel.

Are Israelis marching in the streets calling for a cease-fire? Is there evidence that a different Cabinet will withdraw their troops?

There have been several protests, one ongoing. The narrative being so tightly controlled, you don’t hear about the dissenting views but there is no shortage of them.

Any election is impossible to predict… Israel’s politics complex but Bibi isn’t popular and still has the shadow of corruption charges hanging over him.

[Ymx]

Look at the way sky have framed this, where there are two conflicting sources.

One Hamas (headlines), the other IDF in small with the word false quoted.

Hamas only mentioned as the source the second time.

Immediately after the IDF statement, it throws in a paragraph to discredit it.

[C69]

Look at the way sky have framed this, where there are two conflicting sources.

One Hamas (headlines), the other IDF in small with the word false quoted.

Hamas only mentioned as the source the second time.

Immediately after the IDF statement, it throws in a paragraph to discredit it.

The IDF claim everything is false when civilians are killed
Hamas and the IDF sources should be treated with some scepticism.
N

[Tichtheid]

Look at the way sky have framed this, where there are two conflicting sources.

One Hamas (headlines), the other IDF in small with the word false quoted.

Hamas only mentioned as the source the second time.

Immediately after the IDF statement, it throws in a paragraph to discredit it.

The IDF claim everything is false when civilians are killed
Hamas and the IDF sources should be treated with some scepticism.
N

There was an item on itv news half an hour ago that made me turn the channel to Radio 3. They had a Palestinian bloke on whose sister and seven children had been killed when a bomb destroyed their house, this was in December and their bodies are still lying under the rubble. The youngest was a month old.
The itv host asked, “How does that make you feel?”

That’s when I switched over.

He was there to raise awareness on the issue of temporary visas for displaced Palestinians who have family in the UK, just until the war is over.

[Ymx]

Look at the way sky have framed this, where there are two conflicting sources.

One Hamas (headlines), the other IDF in small with the word false quoted.

Hamas only mentioned as the source the second time.

Immediately after the IDF statement, it throws in a paragraph to discredit it.

The IDF claim everything is false when civilians are killed
Hamas and the IDF sources should be treated with some scepticism.
N

That might be the case, but look at the way it’s already been framed by sky.

[Uncle fester]

If Sky are "leaning left", there are two options.

1. Palestinians have "won" the propaganda war.
Or
2. Israeli behaviour is so reprehensible that even Murdoch owned media can't excuse it anymore.

[Uncle fester]

The well known anti Semite Chuck Schumer stated earlier today that Israel is becoming a pariah state and calls for an election in Israel.

Are Israelis marching in the streets calling for a cease-fire? Is there evidence that a different Cabinet will withdraw their troops?

I'll take this one. We're subjected to a barrage of propaganda followed by bullying if we dare stray from the thought that Israel is perfectly entitled to be carrying on this way.

But it's another level within Israel. They might have a fractured political system but when it comes to awareness of what is being done to Palestinians in their name, they veer between ignorance and excuses. Everything is either Palestinians or somebody else's fault. Israel is never to blame.
Their entire values system is warped. They know the Haredi are fücking weird and present a long term danger to Israel but they refuse to countenance that these lunatics are at fault in any way when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict. Settlers is trickier. I think there's a broad awareness that they are taking land that belongs to others but there's loads of excuses about that. The most common one is that Israel is doing "great things" with that land while "Palestinians were not using it properly".

Last summer, myself and my team had to sit in our control room and pretend to be amused while young-ish Israelis regaled us with their tales of harassing Palestinian women on their military service.
Meanwhile old man Fabian, who actually served in a real war stayed very quiet. I'd love to have a pint with Fabian, the others not so much.

[SaintK]

If Sky are "leaning left", there are two options.

1. Palestinians have "won" the propaganda war.
Or
2. Israeli behaviour is so reprehensible that even Murdoch owned media can't excuse it anymore.

Poimt of order! Comcast own Sky Media not the Aussie/American cunt.

[Uncle fester]

Noted.

Also with Israeli domestic media, their coverage is very different to what we get. Civilian casualties are downplayed. Any coverage showing Palestinians focuses on combatants or potential combatants, i.e. no women and children. IDF spokespersons feature VERY heavily.

[Jockaline]

Noted.

Also with Israeli domestic media, their coverage is very different to what we get. Civilian casualties are downplayed. Any coverage showing Palestinians focuses on combatants or potential combatants, i.e. no women and children. IDF spokespersons feature VERY heavily.

They have access to International media too though I presume. There is not real excuse for not really knowing what's going on. Ignorance is as an excuse isn't credible therefore.

[Uncle fester]

Noted.

Also with Israeli domestic media, their coverage is very different to what we get. Civilian casualties are downplayed. Any coverage showing Palestinians focuses on combatants or potential combatants, i.e. no women and children. IDF spokespersons feature VERY heavily.

They have access to International media too though I presume. There is not real excuse for not really knowing what's going on. Ignorance is as an excuse isn't credible therefore.

Easy to dismiss it as anti you-know-what or with a generous sprinkling of whataboutery.

[Ymx]

In reference to the article above

[Slick]

An Israeli Government spokesman? Ahh yeah, that clears it up.

[C69]

The state of Khan Younis after the surgical strikes of Israel.
Not targetting civilians or civilian areas at all

[Slick]

The state of Khan Younis after the surgical strikes of Israel.
Not targetting civilians or civilian areas at all

Jesus. What's the source for that

[C69]

The state of Khan Younis after the surgical strikes of Israel.
Not targetting civilians or civilian areas at all

Jesus. What's the source for that

Haaretz

[Hugo]

The state of Khan Younis after the surgical strikes of Israel.
Not targetting civilians or civilian areas at all

Beyond the human lives lost it is incredibly sad to think of all the damage done to the architecture and buildings and such that have been around forever and that gave the place its character.

Thinking back to where I grew up and the places that have the most sentimental value to me I can't imagine if the Church all my family got married in, grandparents house, my primary school etc. (all of which are within a quarter of a mile) was bombed off the map. All those memories consigned to rubble. That's another layer of oppression in itself - destroying things that meant so much to people.

[Calculon]

I thought Gaza was supposed to have been a concentration camp

[Tichtheid]

I thought Gaza was supposed to have been a concentration camp

Did you find those posts where I defended Hamas?

Always ready to defend Hamas, aren’t you.

So presumably you've found at least one post or sentence - I'm not asking for the "always" that you said there, just the one.

Normally I wouldn't do this, but since disinformation has become a subplot of this thread, I think it's worth pursuing.

[C69]

I thought Gaza was supposed to have been a concentration camp

You are pretty stupid tbh if you thought that.
I suspect it's been said a couple of times on here but it's not really a common opinion.