I’ve put more in the system than 99% of people probably, and contributed at all levels hugely to massively growing enterprises.
Dinghy arrivals / asylum seekers / gimmegrants
The old 'ah, but not me' argument then.
You're an economic migrant who came here for your own prospects and betterment. Same as every immigrant.
And are there two g’s in Bugger Off?
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Hal Jordan
- Posts: 4154
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:48 pm
- Location: Sector 2814
1. Guess what the polling shows British people think is the main source of immigrants, legal or illegal?
2. Guess what the polling shows British people think is the net migration number per year?
The boat people hysteria, is about most people thinking immigration is primarily driven by illegal immigrants (politicians and your good self, purposely conflate asylum seekers and illegal migration) and most people also underestimating net immigration by x10. Politicians just feed those people everything they already believe. Which will never get net immigration numbers down, because it's not about boat people, the huge numbers are about people like you. And round and round we go.
Good luck with your flimsy "ancestry visa" defence when anti-immigrant laws made to appease the mob impact you, minor laws enforced by low level officials that don't even understand them. My advice is stock up on the ring binders and don't throw out anything with your name and address on it.
Last edited by _Os_ on Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You fancy getting rich quick. I have some unique knowledge on some upcoming crypto launches just for you …Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:02 pmLinkedIn pyramid scheme seller's profile if ever I saw it.
Shhhh
Apparently 40 of those scammers on the Bibby Stockholm are amazingly converted to Christianity.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... istianity/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... istianity/
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Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6018
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
-
Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6018
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
https://newsthump.com/2024/02/05/delude ... all-boats/
Deluded man confident he can explain how the record 7.6m NHS waiting list is all the fault of small boats
Basingstoke resident Simon Williams has been so radicalised by government rhetoric around small boats that he is confident he can blame the record NHS waiting list on asylum seekers arriving by small boat.
Williams, who has never been very bright, and is well known amongst friends for being particularly gullible, now believes that small boats are the biggest crisis facing the country.
When confronted with the fact that NHS waiting lists have risen, yet again, to a new record of just over 7.6 million people waiting for an operation, he was confident he could link it to the small boats.
He explained, “Anyone who swallows the MSM narrative will no doubt think the NHS waiting lists are growing due to years of chronic underfunding and a government trying to delegitimise the entire concept of a national health service so they can introduce full privatisation by stealth. But only an idiot would believe that.
“I do my own research, so I know the truth. I know that just over 100,000 asylum seekers have arrived by small boats since 2018, back when the NHS waiting list was only about 4 million.
“And I know that each and every one of those asylum seekers who has arrived by small boat in the last five years is waiting for 35 operations each, and that explains the entire increase.
“I am very clever.”
Looks like Ireland is now the preferred destination for the economic illegals now.
Only time will tell if it is successful. If planes start leaving, etc.
Only time will tell if it is successful. If planes start leaving, etc.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rwanda-b ... s-13123078
Rwanda Bill causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of UK, deputy PM says
It comes at a time when tension over immigration levels is high in Ireland, with the country experiencing a housing crisis.
Friday 26 April 2024 09:38, UK
Garda and protesters near Trudder House, Newtown Mount Kennedy, Co Wicklow, which is being considered for housing for international protection applicants. Picture date: Monday April 15, 2024.
Image:
Trudder House in Co Wicklow has been the scene of protests since it was revealed the site could be used to house asylum seekers. File pic: PA
The threat of deportation to Rwanda is causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of the UK, Ireland's deputy prime minister has said.
The Rwanda Bill, which will see asylum seekers "entering the UK illegally" sent to the central African nation - regardless of the outcome of their application - was passed on Tuesday, despite human rights concerns.
Micheal Martin told The Daily Telegraph that the policy was already affecting Ireland, as people were "fearful" of staying in the UK.
The former Taoiseach said: "Maybe that's the impact it was designed to have."
Mr Martin, who is also Ireland's foreign secretary, said asylum seekers were seeking "to get sanctuary here and within the European Union as opposed to the potential of being deported to Rwanda".
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Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News
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His words follow those of justice minister Helen McEntee, who told a scrutiny committee in the Irish parliament earlier this week that migrants and refugees were crossing the border with Northern Ireland.
Ms McEntee said "higher than 80%" of people seeking asylum in Ireland entered the country through Northern Ireland, a border crossing that is open as guaranteed under a UK-EU Brexit treaty.
What a hypocritical tosspot...if true oviously.
However this quote shows the real measure of the man
The levels of narcissism and self importance to post this are utterly amazing. The saddest think is I think he believes this.I’ve put more in the system than 99% of people probably
Everything else - Brexit arguments, ECHR arguments etc - aside, that is pretty funny.Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:35 pm Looks like Ireland is now the preferred destination for the economic illegals now.
Only time will tell if it is successful. If planes start leaving, etc.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rwanda-b ... s-13123078
Rwanda Bill causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of UK, deputy PM says
It comes at a time when tension over immigration levels is high in Ireland, with the country experiencing a housing crisis.
Friday 26 April 2024 09:38, UK
Garda and protesters near Trudder House, Newtown Mount Kennedy, Co Wicklow, which is being considered for housing for international protection applicants. Picture date: Monday April 15, 2024.
Image:
Trudder House in Co Wicklow has been the scene of protests since it was revealed the site could be used to house asylum seekers. File pic: PA
The threat of deportation to Rwanda is causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of the UK, Ireland's deputy prime minister has said.
The Rwanda Bill, which will see asylum seekers "entering the UK illegally" sent to the central African nation - regardless of the outcome of their application - was passed on Tuesday, despite human rights concerns.
Micheal Martin told The Daily Telegraph that the policy was already affecting Ireland, as people were "fearful" of staying in the UK.
The former Taoiseach said: "Maybe that's the impact it was designed to have."
Mr Martin, who is also Ireland's foreign secretary, said asylum seekers were seeking "to get sanctuary here and within the European Union as opposed to the potential of being deported to Rwanda".
Follow Sky News on WhatsApp
Follow Sky News on WhatsApp
Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News
Tap here
His words follow those of justice minister Helen McEntee, who told a scrutiny committee in the Irish parliament earlier this week that migrants and refugees were crossing the border with Northern Ireland.
Ms McEntee said "higher than 80%" of people seeking asylum in Ireland entered the country through Northern Ireland, a border crossing that is open as guaranteed under a UK-EU Brexit treaty.
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Insane_Homer
- Posts: 5389
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:14 pm
- Location: Leafy Surrey
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68914399
The Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Simon Harris has asked Ireland's justice minister to bring legislation to cabinet to enable asylum seekers to be sent back to the UK.
Helen McEntee has revealed that 80% of recent arrivals to the Republic came from the UK across the Irish border.
Tánaiste (deputy prime minister) Micheál Martin said the UK's Rwanda policy was already impacting Ireland.
Legislation to revive the UK's Rwanda policy became law on Thursday.
It aims to deter people from crossing the English Channel by sending some asylum seekers to the central African country.
No migrants have been sent yet from the UK.
The UK government had hoped for flights to take off by the spring but Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says this should now happen within 10 to 12 weeks.
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
These people will surely just recross the border and go back to their new home because free movement across the border is part of the GFA.Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:57 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68914399
The Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Simon Harris has asked Ireland's justice minister to bring legislation to cabinet to enable asylum seekers to be sent back to the UK.
Helen McEntee has revealed that 80% of recent arrivals to the Republic came from the UK across the Irish border.
Tánaiste (deputy prime minister) Micheál Martin said the UK's Rwanda policy was already impacting Ireland.
Legislation to revive the UK's Rwanda policy became law on Thursday.
It aims to deter people from crossing the English Channel by sending some asylum seekers to the central African country.
No migrants have been sent yet from the UK.
The UK government had hoped for flights to take off by the spring but Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says this should now happen within 10 to 12 weeks.
-
Paddington Bear
- Posts: 5961
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Yep. A very amusing storyPlim wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:12 pmEverything else - Brexit arguments, ECHR arguments etc - aside, that is pretty funny.Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:35 pm Looks like Ireland is now the preferred destination for the economic illegals now.
Only time will tell if it is successful. If planes start leaving, etc.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rwanda-b ... s-13123078
Rwanda Bill causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of UK, deputy PM says
It comes at a time when tension over immigration levels is high in Ireland, with the country experiencing a housing crisis.
Friday 26 April 2024 09:38, UK
Garda and protesters near Trudder House, Newtown Mount Kennedy, Co Wicklow, which is being considered for housing for international protection applicants. Picture date: Monday April 15, 2024.
Image:
Trudder House in Co Wicklow has been the scene of protests since it was revealed the site could be used to house asylum seekers. File pic: PA
The threat of deportation to Rwanda is causing migrants to head for Ireland instead of the UK, Ireland's deputy prime minister has said.
The Rwanda Bill, which will see asylum seekers "entering the UK illegally" sent to the central African nation - regardless of the outcome of their application - was passed on Tuesday, despite human rights concerns.
Micheal Martin told The Daily Telegraph that the policy was already affecting Ireland, as people were "fearful" of staying in the UK.
The former Taoiseach said: "Maybe that's the impact it was designed to have."
Mr Martin, who is also Ireland's foreign secretary, said asylum seekers were seeking "to get sanctuary here and within the European Union as opposed to the potential of being deported to Rwanda".
Follow Sky News on WhatsApp
Follow Sky News on WhatsApp
Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News
Tap here
His words follow those of justice minister Helen McEntee, who told a scrutiny committee in the Irish parliament earlier this week that migrants and refugees were crossing the border with Northern Ireland.
Ms McEntee said "higher than 80%" of people seeking asylum in Ireland entered the country through Northern Ireland, a border crossing that is open as guaranteed under a UK-EU Brexit treaty.
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
It looks like more of a CTA issue. As we've seen through Brexit the GFA in practice is about no barriers between the north and south, the Unionists jump up and down about no barriers between the west and east but in the end lose.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 10:52 amThese people will surely just recross the border and go back to their new home because free movement across the border is part of the GFA.Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:57 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68914399
The Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Simon Harris has asked Ireland's justice minister to bring legislation to cabinet to enable asylum seekers to be sent back to the UK.
Helen McEntee has revealed that 80% of recent arrivals to the Republic came from the UK across the Irish border.
Tánaiste (deputy prime minister) Micheál Martin said the UK's Rwanda policy was already impacting Ireland.
Legislation to revive the UK's Rwanda policy became law on Thursday.
It aims to deter people from crossing the English Channel by sending some asylum seekers to the central African country.
No migrants have been sent yet from the UK.
The UK government had hoped for flights to take off by the spring but Prime Minister Rishi Sunak says this should now happen within 10 to 12 weeks.
CTA means freedom of movement around the British Isles by UK and Irish passport holders. In practice checks between NI and GB on any passport holders are weak or don't happen at all. The solution is mandatory/enforced passport checks on non-UK and non-Irish passport holders moving between GB and NI, which in practice would mean checks on everyone. Cue Unionist rage then it happening anyway.
The irony being these people likely don't think Ireland is their new home, they think the UK is. Once they get an Irish passport they also get essentially the strongest UK visa because of the CTA, and can immediately return to the UK with likely more rights (voting etc) than if they had stayed in the UK and obtained the highest level of visa in their home passport (ILR). It could actually be they're doing this because they've worked out this is the considerably cheaper and quicker route into the UK and an Irish passport is better than a visa. It's a considerable difference too, someone is definitely spending 5+ years maybe even as long as 10 years in the system in the UK before getting a UK passport and will very likely end up paying many £1000s. Irish passport is 3 years and £1k. The difference is in one system being a mess and the other being functional.
It potentially looks like more of a UK issue than an Ireland issue. As in the majority of those people are going back into the UK where there's a larger economy, more opportunity, and established immigrant communities. If that's what it is then the UK government will implement passport checks on everyone travelling GB/NI years after there's a new Irish resident community numbering many millions.
Spot on!_Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:41 amIt looks like more of a CTA issue. As we've seen through Brexit the GFA in practice is about no barriers between the north and south, the Unionists jump up and down about no barriers between the west and east but in the end lose.
CTA means freedom of movement around the British Isles by UK and Irish passport holders. In practice checks between NI and GB on any passport holders are weak or don't happen at all. The solution is mandatory/enforced passport checks on non-UK and non-Irish passport holders moving between GB and NI, which in practice would mean checks on everyone. Cue Unionist rage then it happening anyway.
The irony being these people likely don't think Ireland is their new home, they think the UK is. Once they get an Irish passport they also get essentially the strongest UK visa because of the CTA, and can immediately return to the UK with likely more rights (voting etc) than if they had stayed in the UK and obtained the highest level of visa in their home passport (ILR). It could actually be they're doing this because they've worked out this is the considerably cheaper and quicker route into the UK and an Irish passport is better than a visa. It's a considerable difference too, someone is definitely spending 5+ years maybe even as long as 10 years in the system in the UK before getting a UK passport and will very likely end up paying many £1000s. Irish passport is 3 years and £1k. The difference is in one system being a mess and the other being functional.
It potentially looks like more of a UK issue than an Ireland issue. As in the majority of those people are going back into the UK where there's a larger economy, more opportunity, and established immigrant communities. If that's what it is then the UK government will implement passport checks on everyone travelling GB/NI years after there's a new Irish resident community numbering many millions.
However I am sure that Frost, Johnson, JRM, et al with their giant intellectual abilities, negotiating talents and shrewd international operators foresaw all this when negotiating the Brexit agreements with EU and there will be a dastardly plan just waiting to be put into place?
OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
So if the Irish think they can ship them back to the UK surely it follows that the UK can just ship them back to France.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
Ita an absurd position but some commentators on this thread still see everything through the filter of Brexit so they have to try and defend it.Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:32 amSo if the Irish think they can ship them back to the UK surely it follows that the UK can just ship them back to France.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
Also there is a free travel accord between Ireland and the UK which does not exist between France (EU) and England.tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:58 amIta an absurd position but some commentators on this thread still see everything through the filter of Brexit so they have to try and defend it.Blackmac wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 6:32 amSo if the Irish think they can ship them back to the UK surely it follows that the UK can just ship them back to France.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
the fact that England wants to free itself from basic decency is a matter for those who believe dickensian England is a worthy goal to attain.
laurent wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:06 amAlso there is a free travel accord between Ireland and the UK which does not exist between France (EU) and England.
the fact that England wants to free itself from basic decency is a matter for those who believe dickensian England is a worthy goal to attain.
Thanks for making my point.-
Paddington Bear
- Posts: 5961
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:29 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire
Ireland wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - sensible, mature grown up politicslaurent wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:06 amAlso there is a free travel accord between Ireland and the UK which does not exist between France (EU) and England.
the fact that England wants to free itself from basic decency is a matter for those who believe dickensian England is a worthy goal to attain.
Britain wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - dickensian, disgusting, a threat to the rules based international order
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
-
Guy Smiley
- Posts: 6018
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:52 pm
Refugees came from Rwanda?Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:22 amIreland wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - sensible, mature grown up politics
Britain wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - dickensian, disgusting, a threat to the rules based international order
It's not exactly a nice place ...Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:46 amRefugees came from Rwanda?Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:22 amIreland wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - sensible, mature grown up politics
Britain wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - dickensian, disgusting, a threat to the rules based international order
It doesn't sound like the Irish have a plan to deport anyone from what I've read, just tub thumping. Same as deporting people to France, there's no mechanism for it to work.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
I don't think the Irish can force the UK to implement passport checks on people traveling from GB to NI. What I'm seeing is a Brexit type pattern where the Irish say "hmm this seems to be a problem", the UK basically laughs, then it turns out to in fact be a problem for the UK too. The outcome is the UK acts in a stronger way than Ireland could ever force the UK to do, and Unionists in NI end up completely ignored.
I've just rechecked, refugees in Ireland don't have to pay for naturalisation but there's still an application fee, so under £200 and not £1000. I was correct refugees have a shorter residency period for Irish naturalisation of 3 years. In the UK after refugee status is granted, ILR is applied for after 5 years, then after that's granted naturalisation/citizenship can be applied for, I know for a lot of those steps (all of them after granting refugee status?) the applicant is paying £1000s, and they can be refused at any stage.
It looks like some people have worked out there's a backdoor into the UK that circumvents a lot of the dysfunction of the UK immigration system. Ireland has a small civil service easy for them to get overwhelmed, and then maybe they start rubber stamping people to clear backlogs. The Irish know/claim 80% of these people are crossing through NI, it seems the Irish have collected information about them, so if they intend to gain an Irish passport then move on as I suspect is the case the Irish likely know that too.
I was interested in what Bigot TV had to say. The UKIP (remember them?) leader Neil Hamilton (he's still alive?) had some fun quotes.
"They are illegal immigrants". "This is an amusing situation". "I think we should send every illegal immigrant in Britain to Northern Ireland so they can just walk across the border into Ireland". Brings up the Dublin agreement which the UK isn't part of post-Brexit. "They go to Ireland instead of Rwanda, I don't care where they go so long as they're not in the United Kingdom".
... a big part of what is going wrong in the UK is the amount of people who have absolutely no clue how the UK works. The CTA means Irish nationals can move to the UK and immediately have the right to work/health care/benefits/study/vote, the reverse is also true. The rights an Irish national has in the UK are a significant level above the rights other EU nationals had pre-Brexit, they're above that of Commonwealth nationals with some type of no time limit visa (like our glorious thread starter) too. These rights are always restated in domestic UK legislation ("with the exception of Irish citizens", "does not apply to Irish citizens"), always to reinforce that Irish nationals have the same rights in the UK as British nationals, that means at a minimum 100s of laws.
The genius solution to stopping inward migration into the UK is ... send asylum seekers to Ireland, because there's no difference between someone becoming an Irish national or Rwandan national. I've seen what Hamilton states repeated elsewhere and in vox pops. Most people in the UK are clueless about how the UK actually works, including those making decisions, hence the growing mess.
"They are illegal immigrants". "This is an amusing situation". "I think we should send every illegal immigrant in Britain to Northern Ireland so they can just walk across the border into Ireland". Brings up the Dublin agreement which the UK isn't part of post-Brexit. "They go to Ireland instead of Rwanda, I don't care where they go so long as they're not in the United Kingdom".
... a big part of what is going wrong in the UK is the amount of people who have absolutely no clue how the UK works. The CTA means Irish nationals can move to the UK and immediately have the right to work/health care/benefits/study/vote, the reverse is also true. The rights an Irish national has in the UK are a significant level above the rights other EU nationals had pre-Brexit, they're above that of Commonwealth nationals with some type of no time limit visa (like our glorious thread starter) too. These rights are always restated in domestic UK legislation ("with the exception of Irish citizens", "does not apply to Irish citizens"), always to reinforce that Irish nationals have the same rights in the UK as British nationals, that means at a minimum 100s of laws.
The genius solution to stopping inward migration into the UK is ... send asylum seekers to Ireland, because there's no difference between someone becoming an Irish national or Rwandan national. I've seen what Hamilton states repeated elsewhere and in vox pops. Most people in the UK are clueless about how the UK actually works, including those making decisions, hence the growing mess.
Last edited by _Os_ on Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So basically this means that refugees can get a quicker and cheaper way of remaining legally in the UK by becoming Irish! They get into UK then move via NI to Ireland and then apply for Irish naturalization for £200? Once they get their Irish passport then they have FoM across the wider UK and Ireland. Ha ha ha ha this is going to infuriate the Brexiteers no end. What twats thought Brexit was a good idea?_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:26 amIt doesn't sound like the Irish have a plan to deport anyone from what I've read, just tub thumping. Same as deporting people to France, there's no mechanism for it to work.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
I don't think the Irish can force the UK to implement passport checks on people traveling from GB to NI. What I'm seeing is a Brexit type pattern where the Irish say "hmm this seems to be a problem", the UK basically laughs, then it turns out to in fact be a problem for the UK too. The outcome is the UK acts in a stronger way than Ireland could ever force the UK to do, and Unionists in NI end up completely ignored.
I've just rechecked, refugees in Ireland don't have to pay for naturalisation but there's still an application fee, so under £200 and not £1000. I was correct refugees have a shorter residency period for Irish naturalisation of 3 years. In the UK after refugee status is granted, ILR is applied for after 5 years, then after that's granted naturalisation/citizenship can be applied for, I know for a lot of those steps (all of them after granting refugee status?) the applicant is paying £1000s, and they can be refused at any stage.
It looks like some people have worked out there's a backdoor into the UK that circumvents a lot of the dysfunction of the UK immigration system. Ireland has a small civil service easy for them to get overwhelmed, and then maybe they start rubber stamping people to clear backlogs. The Irish know/claim 80% of these people are crossing through NI, it seems the Irish have collected information about them, so if they intend to gain an Irish passport then move on as I suspect is the case the Irish likely know that too.
Yes, that's the summary of what this looks like to me. If I'm wrong I'm not that far wrong. If nothing changes I expect a rise in Irish immigration into the UK in about 3 years.dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 4:08 pmSo basically this means that refugees can get a quicker and cheaper way of remaining legally in the UK by becoming Irish! They get into UK then move via NI to Ireland and then apply for Irish naturalization for £200? Once they get their Irish passport then they have FoM across the wider UK and Ireland. Ha ha ha ha this is going to infuriate the Brexiteers no end. What twats thought Brexit was a good idea?_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 10:26 amIt doesn't sound like the Irish have a plan to deport anyone from what I've read, just tub thumping. Same as deporting people to France, there's no mechanism for it to work.tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 5:41 pm OS my point is anyone deported from the RoI to NI can simply walk back across the seamless border across which absolutely no kind of controls can be implemented per the GFA.
So even if they are after a Irish passport just based on long term plan to re enter the UK there us absolutely no way the RoI can enforce the deportations.
I think its unlikely the RoI will force the UK to implement passport checks between GB and NI. I wonder what kind of leverage you think they will have to do this. Can't see given the current state of the world the EU27 being interested in reopening the TCA and Windsor framework.
As an aside as these a desperate refugees fleeing the UK the Irish government's proposed actions are obviously despicable.
I don't think the Irish can force the UK to implement passport checks on people traveling from GB to NI. What I'm seeing is a Brexit type pattern where the Irish say "hmm this seems to be a problem", the UK basically laughs, then it turns out to in fact be a problem for the UK too. The outcome is the UK acts in a stronger way than Ireland could ever force the UK to do, and Unionists in NI end up completely ignored.
I've just rechecked, refugees in Ireland don't have to pay for naturalisation but there's still an application fee, so under £200 and not £1000. I was correct refugees have a shorter residency period for Irish naturalisation of 3 years. In the UK after refugee status is granted, ILR is applied for after 5 years, then after that's granted naturalisation/citizenship can be applied for, I know for a lot of those steps (all of them after granting refugee status?) the applicant is paying £1000s, and they can be refused at any stage.
It looks like some people have worked out there's a backdoor into the UK that circumvents a lot of the dysfunction of the UK immigration system. Ireland has a small civil service easy for them to get overwhelmed, and then maybe they start rubber stamping people to clear backlogs. The Irish know/claim 80% of these people are crossing through NI, it seems the Irish have collected information about them, so if they intend to gain an Irish passport then move on as I suspect is the case the Irish likely know that too.
As an example of how entwined UK and Irish nationality are, a child born to Irish nationals in the UK, is British at birth (and Irish as the parents are Irish). Regardless of the parents circumstances. In other words Irish nationality can confer automatic British nationality. This is not the case for any other non-UK nationality which requires the parents to have long term visas (ILR, abode), for children born in the UK to be automatically British. This is how there's second generation Windrush victims, the Home Office retroactively decides someone isn't British, then strips their children who were born in the UK of citizenship too.
Perhaps there will be demands for the UK to pull out of the CTA. A moronic demand and therefore entirely possible. But that would mean unpicking large amounts of domestic UK law. Converting Irish nationals in the UK to some equivalent type of visa and avoiding a Windrush style scandal. But as always with UK sovereignty the biggest problem will be NI, if the CTA ends it makes it very hard for someone in NI to be "British, Irish, or both" which is core to the GFA. A carve out could be made for the CTA to still exist in NI, but that would further make NI a special case detached from the the rest of the UK (NI Unionists wouldn't be happy), it also wouldn't fully work, an Irish national resident in NI who was not born in NI would still be able to apply for UK citizenship through naturalisation after 5 years.
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fishfoodie
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The difference is that Ireland has a treaty that the UK signed to allow them to return these people, & the UK used to be part of one, that would allow it to do the same, but didn't want to continue with it, because it was more important to "Get Brexit Done"Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:22 amIreland wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - sensible, mature grown up politics
Britain wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from - dickensian, disgusting, a threat to the rules based international order
The CTA Allows free travel for Irish citizens, & British citizens, no-one else !
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Insane_Homer
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Whoosh!Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:22 am Britain wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from
Ireland wants to remove migrants to the last safe developed country they came from
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.”
First I've heard of this. Googling I've found this:fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:43 pm The difference is that Ireland has a treaty that the UK signed to allow them to return these people
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/t ... 69091.html
An agreement from 2020 to return asylum seekers, but Irish courts have ruled the UK isn't a safe country which has created a legislative blockage in Ireland. Is it actually worth the paper its written on though (is it a treaty that's part of something bigger?). If it's a standalone agreement between Ireland and the UK, expect the UK to decide they didn't actually mean whatever they agreed to. Which means trying to return them to the UK will not work, packing them onto a Ryanair flight and sending them London without the UK being okay with that and unwilling to accept them, just means the same people are packed on a BA flight and sent to Dublin. I suspect the quickest and cheapest solution is fast tracking them into Irish citizenship, then letting them do their own thing, which is most cases will be a Ryanair flight to London.
Channel 4 News interviewed an Afghan rough sleeping in Dublin, he had a thick London accent, he claimed he had lived in London for 17 years which was half his life. He could not regularise his immigration status in the UK and had been in out of detention centres and various other processes his entire adult life. Insane.
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fishfoodie
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A train ticket up to Belfast, & a couple of hundred Euros to make their way back to England is much easier, & doesn't require any documentation checks, & thanks to Rishi's super-duper deal to prevent a Trade war with the EU, there's no legal way for the UK to stop him reentering the UK._Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 7:44 pmFirst I've heard of this. Googling I've found this:fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:43 pm The difference is that Ireland has a treaty that the UK signed to allow them to return these people
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/t ... 69091.html
An agreement from 2020 to return asylum seekers, but Irish courts have ruled the UK isn't a safe country which has created a legislative blockage in Ireland. Is it actually worth the paper its written on though (is it a treaty that's part of something bigger?). If it's a standalone agreement between Ireland and the UK, expect the UK to decide they didn't actually mean whatever they agreed to. Which means trying to return them to the UK will not work, packing them onto a Ryanair flight and sending them London without the UK being okay with that and unwilling to accept them, just means the same people are packed on a BA flight and sent to Dublin. I suspect the quickest and cheapest solution is fast tracking them into Irish citizenship, then letting them do their own thing, which is most cases will be a Ryanair flight to London.
Channel 4 News interviewed an Afghan rough sleeping in Dublin, he had a thick London accent, he claimed he had lived in London for 17 years which was half his life. He could not regularise his immigration status in the UK and had been in out of detention centres and various other processes his entire adult life. Insane.
To be honest, it is a lovely well governed place. His style might not to be our liking, and he does some awful shit which I'm not condoning at all, but the transformation Kagame has implemented is quite incredible.epwc wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:23 am Rwanda, lovely well governed place:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... der-doubts
In saying that, I have been convinced for some time that his plan is to stitch up the UK government and tell them to get fucked when it comes to the crunch.
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
They have some brilliant podcasts:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campa ... y-podcast/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/witness/
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/in-their-own-words-podcast
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campa ... y-podcast/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/witness/
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/in-their-own-words-podcast