Turning to the Dark Side

[inactionman]

Anyone remember this horror show?




To balance things out, the greatest, ever. Arrivederci, it's one on one

[inactionman]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

[David in Gwent]

Southgate needs to take the hand brake off and just go for it.

But he won't.

[Big D]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

Shame Southgate isn't as good at the on the field stuff as the man management parts.

Considering the attacking talent England have they have they should be putting teams to the sword regularly.

[Dogbert]

Hmm - this is probably more appropriate

[petej]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

[inactionman]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

[Hugo]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

England have never been technically deficient imo - ask the French what they think of Hoddle & Waddle - we have just never been the sum of our parts.

We produce as many skilfull players as most countries it's just we have never managed to put it all together in one tournament.

[Woddy]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

Add Ashley Cole, Campbell, King, Baines, Owen, Gerrard, Barry to the list of the skilled. Plenty of others, I'm sure. But they didn't gel. Southgate has got his lots to do that. Maybe a bit easier without the likes of Terry around any more.

I'm hoping the Carlton Palmer song will return for Cole (Palmer).

[Woddy]

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

England have never been technically deficient imo - ask the French what they think of Hoddle & Waddle - we have just never been the sum of our parts.

We produce as many skilfull players as most countries it's just we have never managed to put it all together in one tournament.

More that we didn't play a style to enhance those skills. With a few standout exceptions, like vs Netherlands and Germany in '96.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

I'm sure the kid will have a great time, but I also hope the council fine the parents for this. Father comes across as a bit arrogant: "This is his fifth international trip, and we've never had any feedback, negative reports, emails, or letters. If anything does come back, who cares?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw99v7xvd0vo

I know the world seems to have changed (especially since covid), but I'm a bit old fashioned on this kind of thing. Education is so important (this kid wants to be a pilot - good luck with that if you've frequently missing lessons), and parents should be setting the expectation that kids are in school (imo). Once the kid has finished school, he can go to as many matches as he wants, there's plenty of time for that later.

I hope being so brazen backfires and the father gets a big fine.

[robmatic]

And in terms of England, Southgate has finally made representing England an enjoyable experience and this was reflected in some very good performances and runs, although it's been a bit flat for a little while now.

The likes of scholes and Carrick retired early due to the sheer unpleasantness of playing for England. Dinosaurs like Capello just made it a misery, by infantalsiing players. Southgate just seems to have the right touch for this.


I thought we had a good chance in the last Euros and WC, but subsequently we're not playing well and have some real defensive issues that haven't been resolved so I think we're not as well placed as in those previous years. Still, Bellingham, Foden, Kane, Saka - these are key players in champions league challenging/winning teams so you never know. I still think France will do it though.

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

I think England's standout players were always skilled but the overall technical level of the squad is much higher now.

[Tichtheid]

I've been desperately trying to avoid getting on the hype train because we all know how this is going to end, but I got swept off my feet this morning by farmer Jim Smith, as well as being a farmer he's a stand up comedian who also posts a lot of mental health wellness stuff for farmers.

He posted a sketch today about him having a lamb that can predict the results of games and of course the wee thing predicted a Scotland win over Germany, and I got carried away with it.

Mon Scotland.

Unfortunately the video is only on Facebook

[petej]

England have finally got to a similar technical level with the rest of Europe. Years of delusion around the generation of gerrard and lampard when England were still technically deficient. England have so many options going forward but defence (shame the assistant fell out with one of the better defensive options) and goalkeeper are suspect.

I'm not sure I'd agree the players weren't skilled, but I would agree there was always too much of a 'blood and thunder' about selection and tactics.

Lampard is a superbly skilled player - Mourinho picked him as first choice for years, and they had some fearsome options. Ferdinand, Beckham, sheringham, Roney, Carrick, Cole - all highly skilled.in that era of team.

The real problems were picking players with workrate or speed above skillset - like Carlton Palmer, David Batty et al in the early days. Or playing Joe Cole badly, badly out of position, as he's seen as a 'luxury player', whatever the hell that actually means.

Add Ashley Cole, Campbell, King, Baines, Owen, Gerrard, Barry to the list of the skilled. Plenty of others, I'm sure. But they didn't gel. Southgate has got his lots to do that. Maybe a bit easier without the likes of Terry around any more.

I'm hoping the Carlton Palmer song will return for Cole (Palmer).

The stand out players were less technical than the European equivalents and the less gifted were also worse. Rooney and gerrard are classic examples of very dynamic players with great moments but with lower base technical level which shows with poor control, touch and decision making when fatigued and in critical moments. Lampard was a bit unusual in that he was less naturally gifted than some, like gerrard but really did improve throughout his career.

I'm comparing to the very best teams/players.

[inactionman]

I've been desperately trying to avoid getting on the hype train because we all know how this is going to end, but I got swept off my feet this morning by farmer Jim Smith, as well as being a farmer he's a stand up comedian who also posts a lot of mental health wellness stuff for farmers.

He posted a sketch today about him having a lamb that can predict the results of games and of course the wee thing predicted a Scotland win over Germany, and I got carried away with it.

Mon Scotland.

Unfortunately the video is only on Facebook

I think it's sad when fans can't get a bit carried away with it all - I'd encourage everyone to get on the hype train, it's supposed to be fun and we're allowed to be positive.

I'm off to the pub tonight to watch it - I'll hold off wearing a blue shirt but I'll be cheering on Scotland and looking forward to getting swept up in it all.

[Tichtheid]

I've been desperately trying to avoid getting on the hype train because we all know how this is going to end, but I got swept off my feet this morning by farmer Jim Smith, as well as being a farmer he's a stand up comedian who also posts a lot of mental health wellness stuff for farmers.

He posted a sketch today about him having a lamb that can predict the results of games and of course the wee thing predicted a Scotland win over Germany, and I got carried away with it.

Mon Scotland.

Unfortunately the video is only on Facebook

I think it's sad when fans can't get a bit carried away with it all - I'd encourage everyone to get on the hype train, it's supposed to be fun and we're allowed to be positive.

I'm off to the pub tonight to watch it - I'll hold off wearing a blue shirt but I'll be cheering on Scotland and looking forward to getting swept up in it all.

One of my favourite memories here is during Euro 96, England had just beaten Spain, Stuart Pearce's penalty and all that. After the game I went up on to the main street that runs from the train station to the beach and it was packed, people jumping about, cars horns blaring, people leaning out of windows... when I got to the off license the place was jumping, people singing, opening cans of beer and bottles of fizz. I picked up what I was after and battled my way to the till where the guy had to lean over to make himself heard and he asked why I wasn't jumping about - I said, "I'm Scottish", but I was laughing when I said it. He replied, "We tried our best for you", referring to the win over Holland in the groups.

That was the best sporting atmosphere outside of a ground that I've ever witnessed. Whoever says sport doesn't matter has no idea.

[Biffer]

I'm sure the kid will have a great time, but I also hope the council fine the parents for this. Father comes across as a bit arrogant: "This is his fifth international trip, and we've never had any feedback, negative reports, emails, or letters. If anything does come back, who cares?"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw99v7xvd0vo

I know the world seems to have changed (especially since covid), but I'm a bit old fashioned on this kind of thing. Education is so important (this kid wants to be a pilot - good luck with that if you've frequently missing lessons), and parents should be setting the expectation that kids are in school (imo). Once the kid has finished school, he can go to as many matches as he wants, there's plenty of time for that later.

I hope being so brazen backfires and the father gets a big fine.

He's not the only one, I've seen a few kids over with parents already.

Currently having a Radler on the train to Munich, wearing my Mexico 86 shirt.

[David in Gwent]

I've been desperately trying to avoid getting on the hype train because we all know how this is going to end, but I got swept off my feet this morning by farmer Jim Smith, as well as being a farmer he's a stand up comedian who also posts a lot of mental health wellness stuff for farmers.

He posted a sketch today about him having a lamb that can predict the results of games and of course the wee thing predicted a Scotland win over Germany, and I got carried away with it.

Mon Scotland.

Unfortunately the video is only on Facebook

I think it's sad when fans can't get a bit carried away with it all - I'd encourage everyone to get on the hype train, it's supposed to be fun and we're allowed to be positive.

I'm off to the pub tonight to watch it - I'll hold off wearing a blue shirt but I'll be cheering on Scotland and looking forward to getting swept up in it all.

One of my favourite memories here is during Euro 96, England had just beaten Spain, Stuart Pearce's penalty and all that. After the game I went up on to the main street that runs from the train station to the beach and it was packed, people jumping about, cars horns blaring, people leaning out of windows... when I got to the off license the place was jumping, people singing, opening cans of beer and bottles of fizz. I picked up what I was after and battled my way to the till where the guy had to lean over to make himself heard and he asked why I wasn't jumping about - I said, "I'm Scottish", but I was laughing when I said it. He replied, "We tried our best for you", referring to the win over Holland in the groups.

That was the best sporting atmosphere outside of a ground that I've ever witnessed. Whoever says sport doesn't matter has no idea.

Euro 96 was just the most amazing event I've ever been too.

Managed to get my two England mates tickets for the semis from an RAF colleague and the look on their faces when I handed them over will always stay with me.

[inactionman]

I've weird hazy memories of the games at Euro 96, I only went to one game - Scotland-Netherlands at Villa Park - and I have pretty lucid recollections of Ally McCoist playing but he wasn't in the squad.

I had uni exams around that time, it didn't really help sitting them with a massive hangover.

[Tichtheid]

Oh well, it was a fun build up to the game at least.

[Hugo]

To balance things out, the greatest, ever. Arrivederci, it's one on one

The match footage in the song is awesome, particularly the parts with Chris Waddle.

I had that song on 7 inch vinyl but I've no idea where it is now. it is an absolute belter, sounds as good today as it did 30+ years ago.

[tc27]

Ach I hope the beers are good at least Biffer

[Biffer]

Ach I hope the beers are good at least Biffer

They have been. On to the next games.

[Jim Lahey]

Home before the postcards?

Well at least you are there

[Yr Alban]

Fuck sake, if last night didn’t summarise what it’s like to support Scotland in sport, I don’t know what does. Skooshed the qualifiers, qualified with 3 games to go, and then when the main event comes, it’s like the famous South Africa v Taranaki U12 girls’ team. That is how bad we were last night. Germany are a very good side, but we made them look like football gods. Our players are genuinely better than that, but their confidence is clearly shot and they didn’t want to be there.

One could say that we were always likely to lose and it was always about the other two games. But we’re in such a state that I can’t see us taking a single point right now.

[sturginho]

Italy's turn tonight, you can have a good laugh to cheer yourselves up

[sturginho]

Italy's turn tonight, you can have a good laugh to cheer yourselves up

See, didnt I promise some comedy!

[Slick]

I've been desperately trying to avoid getting on the hype train because we all know how this is going to end, but I got swept off my feet this morning by farmer Jim Smith, as well as being a farmer he's a stand up comedian who also posts a lot of mental health wellness stuff for farmers.

He posted a sketch today about him having a lamb that can predict the results of games and of course the wee thing predicted a Scotland win over Germany, and I got carried away with it.

Mon Scotland.

Unfortunately the video is only on Facebook

I think it's sad when fans can't get a bit carried away with it all - I'd encourage everyone to get on the hype train, it's supposed to be fun and we're allowed to be positive.

I'm off to the pub tonight to watch it - I'll hold off wearing a blue shirt but I'll be cheering on Scotland and looking forward to getting swept up in it all.

One of my favourite memories here is during Euro 96, England had just beaten Spain, Stuart Pearce's penalty and all that. After the game I went up on to the main street that runs from the train station to the beach and it was packed, people jumping about, cars horns blaring, people leaning out of windows... when I got to the off license the place was jumping, people singing, opening cans of beer and bottles of fizz. I picked up what I was after and battled my way to the till where the guy had to lean over to make himself heard and he asked why I wasn't jumping about - I said, "I'm Scottish", but I was laughing when I said it. He replied, "We tried our best for you", referring to the win over Holland in the groups.

That was the best sporting atmosphere outside of a ground that I've ever witnessed. Whoever says sport doesn't matter has no idea.

Have to say that I used to love the big tournaments when I lived in England, always got caught up in the hype eventually. It was always quite an easy ride though, support whoever were playing England in the groups, then get behind them in the knock outs but when they lost just be able to shrug and move on.

In saying that I was in France working in a bar in a campsite for Euro 96 and when Holland dumped them out it was an absolute disgrace with people (with their families) upturning tables, throwing glasses etc.

Also remember watching what I guess must have been WC 98 when literally a minute after the final whistle watching in a pub around Ealing we started to hear the police sirens and folk went on a spree smashing up cars and shops.

[SaintK]

Fuck me! I'd almost forgotten why I loath football so much

A major operation is taking place in central Hamburg after a man with an axe threatened police officers, officials in the German city say.
Police say they shot and seriously injured the man, who is receiving medical attention.
Media reports say the incident took place near a fanzone for supporters of the Dutch football team.

[Slick]

Why do the linesmen take so long to put their flags up for offsides? What’s the reasoning? Bloody annoying

[JM2K6]

Why do the linesmen take so long to put their flags up for offsides? What’s the reasoning? Bloody annoying

To allow for play to continue in case it turns out they were actually wrong

[Yr Alban]

Why do the linesmen take so long to put their flags up for offsides? What’s the reasoning? Bloody annoying

To allow for play to continue in case it turns out they were actually wrong

Yeah - it’s annoying, but it’s a VAR thing. If they flag early, play stops and then VAR shows the player was on-side, there will be a tsunami of complaints. So they let play continue and flag after the goal is or isn’t scored.

TBH this is one of the issues with VAR. If it’s going to be used to re-referee the game (as it currently is) then the linesman’s role is increasingly redundant.

[Slick]

Why do the linesmen take so long to put their flags up for offsides? What’s the reasoning? Bloody annoying

To allow for play to continue in case it turns out they were actually wrong

Yeah - it’s annoying, but it’s a VAR thing. If they flag early, play stops and then VAR shows the player was on-side, there will be a tsunami of complaints. So they let play continue and flag after the goal is or isn’t scored.

TBH this is one of the issues with VAR. If it’s going to be used to re-referee the game (as it currently is) then the linesman’s role is increasingly redundant.

Ahh, thanks chaps, that makes sense. But yes, really irritating

[Slick]

There seems to be a lot less ref baiting in this tournament so far, is this a new thing or just an aberration?

I noticed the Poles today seemed to be almost rugby like in the way they were seemingly trying to get in the refs good books by not giving him a hard time or diving about

[Big D]

There seems to be a lot less ref baiting in this tournament so far, is this a new thing or just an aberration?

I noticed the Poles today seemed to be almost rugby like in the way they were seemingly trying to get in the refs good books by not giving him a hard time or diving about

Only captains, or one outfield player is GK is captain are allowed to approach the ref.

[Slick]

There seems to be a lot less ref baiting in this tournament so far, is this a new thing or just an aberration?

I noticed the Poles today seemed to be almost rugby like in the way they were seemingly trying to get in the refs good books by not giving him a hard time or diving about

Only captains, or one outfield player is GK is captain are allowed to approach the ref.

That’s good. Must be quite a new thing?

[Slick]

That Jude Bellingham is good at football

[robmatic]

That Jude Bellingham is good at football

And he's only 20.

[Slick]

That Jude Bellingham is good at football

And he's only 20.

Could be the next John McGinn

[inactionman]

These ripped socks can feck off.

They've upped the tempo but Tadic has added a fair bit to the Serbs after a pretty straightforward first half for England - really needed another when we were comfortably on top. I'm just not comfortable watching England with a slim lead, Pickford in particular gives the wobbles every time it goes near him..