2025 Springbokke

[_Os_]

Libbok is history.

Don't think that's going to happen, not how this team works. Probably needs to be dropped before he costs the Boks badly, but will not be. It's a bit of a Jaco van der Westhuizen situation, Libbok is similar to Jaco, Jake just cut him asap back in the day and moved on.

Looks like Rassie sees it developing like this:
Fullback: Le Roux/Willemse, Fassi
Flyhalf: Pollard, SFM, Libbok

Should bring Siya Masuku in to replace Libbok, he can kick goals under heavy pressure and has a low error rate in general play. I would feel more comfortable with someone who is solid as squad flyhalf.

Kicking should be a Bok strength, not really acceptable to not have at least one player on the park capable of landing anything in the opposition half under pressure and another player capable of landing anything 10 metres into the Bok half if it's more or less in front and the main kicker doesn't have the range. it's one kicker that lands everything and another with a massive boot who kicks straight and lands less because they're difficult. It's an area Rassie has neglected, he needs to test more players from range (Faf got one kick from range at the RWC, seemed to have a big boot, didn't get the chance again). Reckon De Allende may be capable of kicking big and straight, he was practicing some big drop goals during captain's at King's Park.

At flyhalf/fullback it's best to have one running player and one more kicking orientated. The Boks usually go with the running player at fullback and the kicker at 10 (not always, Jake did it the other way around). For the Boks SFM would be better off at the fullback if he wants to use all his talent, I don't think that's the plan though. Pollard used to be a running player (a greedy one who didn't pass), now he almost never runs and is mostly a kicking player. Libbok struggles because Rassie doesn't like a strong kicker at the back, no players selected like Percy or Frans, so Libbok under pressure sometimes means no kicker. If the opposition isn't being punished with the boot for cheating then they cheat more and everything becomes harder.

[Sards]

Ben was the biggest surprise for me. Roos was made to look pretty ordinary by the performances of his fellow players. Which is amazing in itself. Sorry but Moerat does not deserve to be there. Otherwise not much to complain about.

Am was just fantastic. I mean wow. I don't think Jesse could have covered 2 positions like that. And still be so busy.
Yeah Sascha is the man. I really don't see the point of investing too much in Manie. In a way it's a blessing. The biggest supporters of Manie has been the colored segment of our population who slate pollock at every opportunity to promote Manie. Sascha ticks all the boxes and satisfies everyone
KLA just class. And Mapimpi. Mapimpi should have played against Ireland ahead of Kolbe. The two really compliment each other. Fassi is the best I have seen in the air. It's his height advantage . And makes metres with ease.

[OomStruisbaai]

Libbok is history.

Don't think that's going to happen, not how this team works. Probably needs to be dropped before he costs the Boks badly, but will not be. It's a bit of a Jaco van der Westhuizen situation, Libbok is similar to Jaco, Jake just cut him asap back in the day and moved on.

Looks like Rassie sees it developing like this:
Fullback: Le Roux/Willemse, Fassi
Flyhalf: Pollard, SFM, Libbok

Should bring Siya Masuku in to replace Libbok, he can kick goals under heavy pressure and has a low error rate in general play. I would feel more comfortable with someone who is solid as squad flyhalf.

Kicking should be a Bok strength, not really acceptable to not have at least one player on the park capable of landing anything in the opposition half under pressure and another player capable of landing anything 10 metres into the Bok half if it's more or less in front and the main kicker doesn't have the range. it's one kicker that lands everything and another with a massive boot who kicks straight and lands less because they're difficult. It's an area Rassie has neglected, he needs to test more players from range (Faf got one kick from range at the RWC, seemed to have a big boot, didn't get the chance again). Reckon De Allende may be capable of kicking big and straight, he was practicing some big drop goals during captain's at King's Park.

At flyhalf/fullback it's best to have one running player and one more kicking orientated. The Boks usually go with the running player at fullback and the kicker at 10 (not always, Jake did it the other way around). For the Boks SFM would be better off at the fullback if he wants to use all his talent, I don't think that's the plan though. Pollard used to be a running player (a greedy one who didn't pass), now he almost never runs and is mostly a kicking player. Libbok struggles because Rassie doesn't like a strong kicker at the back, no players selected like Percy or Frans, so Libbok under pressure sometimes means no kicker. If the opposition isn't being punished with the boot for cheating then they cheat more and everything becomes harder.

SMZ is your kicking man, Ox. He is our best 10.

[Sandstorm]

Libbok 10 for running, Sasha 15 for long kicks, counter attack and shots at goal. Willemse back to 12.

Stomps rule.

[boere wors]

Other news, Sbu Nkosi has retourned a positive drug test, anabolic steroid. 4 year ban coming most probably. Already struggled with mental health and now that. Quite worrying.

[Monk]

Other news, Sbu Nkosi has retourned a positive drug test, anabolic steroid. 4 year ban coming most probably. Already struggled with mental health and now that. Quite worrying.

Bloody stupid.

[_Os_]

Snyman played well, crazy what he can do through the contact with the ball in one hand.

The best one isn't among these, it's the one where he was gang tackled and looking for a supporting player moving the ball from one hand to the other, never holding it in both hands, there was no supporting player so didn't offload and went to ground (think that was a turnover). Was convinced he would knock on, but it didn't happen. It's like watching an older kid playing with younger kids because a team didn't have enough players.

[_Os_]

Looks like all SFM's good plays (doesn't have his missed tackle that resulted in a try, so it's not all his plays).

34 seconds has a Porra taking out a support runner off the ball, 28 and 43 seconds the same play another Porra forward tries to run into the back of Grobbelaar to take him out (who is standing still with his back to him and looking at SFM) but trips himself up when Grobbelaar starts running. You know they were shovelling out this stuff when it makes a short vid of one substitute's kicks and running the ball.

[assfly]

Rocky start, but pretty happy with how we played. It so good to see so many new faces finally getting a run.

Highlights for me were;

SMZ. Obviously a huge talent and would love to see him get more gametime. Unfortunately I think it signals the end of the road for Libbok in the 10 jersey.
Snyman, probably the best I've seen him play in years.
Thomas du Toit looks vokken massive! He played very well. Our depth at prop is insane.
Am covering two positions was sublime, so good to see him playing well again.
Mapimpi also showing he still has it. I actually wish he started against Ireland last week, as a balance with our midget wingers.
AH Venter looks the real deal. He also brought some grunt to the 2 jersey that I love.
BJD looks like a young PSdT, unlucky not to get man of the match.

[boere wors]

It was Portugal, of course they all looked decent

[assfly]

It was Portugal, of course they all looked decent

Not necessarily. I though Roos and Buthelezi were average.

[Blake]

Libbok 10 for running, Sasha 15 for long kicks, counter attack and shots at goal. Willemse back to 12.

Stomps rule.

This is the way.
But some massive selection headaches for Rassie on the horizon.

DDA hasn't done anything wrong at 12 and still has some left in the tank. Hopefully we are done with Andre now.
Jessie has been great at 13, but now Am is back in top for and Moodie will heal up soon as well.
On the wings we are stacked with Mapimpi, Kolbe, Arendse and Van Der Merwe.
And at fullback Le Roux is still valuable, with both Fassi and Horn showing great touches and Sasha showing how valuable he can be there as a goal kicker.

If you want to go with a more youthful backline, this is quite spicy...all under 30.
Lots of pace, maybe just lacking a big bruiser, but with the new gameplan maybe you bring in a loosie to fill that role.

9. Williams (28)
10. Sasha (22)
11. Van der Merwe (28)
12. Willemse (26)
13. Moodie (21)
14. Arendse (28)
15. Fassi (26)

22. Jaden Hendrikse (24)
23. Horn (23)

[assfly]

I know I might regret this post in a few weeks, especially with TRC around the corner.

But it really feels like we are in a golden age for Springbok rugby.

Back to back world cups.
3 wins from 4 in the July series.
A coach that has probably reached the highest levels of popularity than ever before, and any other Bok coach before him.
Recent games have shown the unbelievable depth the Boks can draw on.
An amazing crop of young players coming through the URC.
Packed stadiums that could sell out many times over.

Winning the RC would just be unbelievable.

[Blake]

It was Portugal, of course they all looked decent

Not necessarily. I though Roos and Buthelezi were average.

And Moerat. I'm not convinced and I doubt I ever will be. He did a lot of the grunt work which allowed RG to roam a bit, but I just can't see him firing up his troops with rousing words or by leading by example in play in the same way Siya, or Eben, or Bongi, or PSDT do. He just seems big and...soft. Unless a young leader emerges soon, I fear we might run into the same leadership challenge we Boks had post John Smit.


Esterhuizen was just kak. Hopefully he'll be out of the picture for good soon.

[Sandstorm]

Bomb squad front-row was also weak, our scrum lost all superiority.

@Ox - you watch Portugal a lot. Were their starting props weaker than their bench players? Thanks.

[assfly]

Esterhuizen was just kak. Hopefully he'll be out of the picture for good soon.

I think he was desperately unlucky with the call. I still haven't seen any footage that shows direct head contact, as first contact looked on the shoulder to me. As Matfield said, it looked like the whiplash that injured the player.

If it was head on head, I would have expected to see bloody gushing from AE after the hit.

Yes, he could have gone lower to avoid the risk, but a different TMO would have let that pass as a hard tackle.

Bad sadly that could be the end of his push for the 12 jersey.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Esterhuizen was just kak. Hopefully he'll be out of the picture for good soon.

I think he was desperately unlucky with the call. I still haven't seen any footage that shows direct head contact, as first contact looked on the shoulder to me. As Matfield said, it looked like the whiplash that injured the player.

If it was head on head, I would have expected to see bloody gushing from AE after the hit.

Yes, he could have gone lower to avoid the risk, but a different TMO would have let that pass as a hard tackle.

Bad sadly that could be the end of his push for the 12 jersey.

Definite head contact unfortunately. It was an accident though, he was bent at the knees, but still too high in the end. To add insult to injury, he'll cop a ban for that too.

[Blake]

Esterhuizen was just kak. Hopefully he'll be out of the picture for good soon.

I think he was desperately unlucky with the call. I still haven't seen any footage that shows direct head contact, as first contact looked on the shoulder to me. As Matfield said, it looked like the whiplash that injured the player.

If it was head on head, I would have expected to see bloody gushing from AE after the hit.

Yes, he could have gone lower to avoid the risk, but a different TMO would have let that pass as a hard tackle.

Bad sadly that could be the end of his push for the 12 jersey.

The initial contact was definitely AE's chest to Lima's shoulder, and then the whiplash caused the head contact and sparked Lima out. Had Lima been a bigger player with a stronger neck like a Bundee Aki or someone, one could speculate that it might have just been a hard tackle...but that's not how it played out.

Regardless, it was a stupid unnecessarily aggressive tackle and he could still have levelled Lima legally if he just dipped and went in with a hard shoulder. It. was lazy and reckless and I don't have a problem with the card.

[Sandstorm]

AE is like Farrell. He'll never learn to go lower. Bin him Rassie.

[Sards]

Such a fuss over AE. Typical Stomps . Always throwing shafe at other province players. That was very very unlucky. Fortunately we get to see more of him at the Sharks now.


The biggest issue is......Manie Misbok.


Koobaai Manie. You are the weakest link.
But give him credit
Failed at Bulls
Failed at Sharks
Failed at Stormers
Failed at boks

That's a great resume

Sascha will take over now. He has shown up the overhyped pretenders. Definitely better than Misbok. Definitely better than Willemse. My boy Sascha is going to take out those 2 with ease

[Sards]

AE is like Farrell. He'll never learn to go lower. Bin him Rassie.

Thankfully you aren't a coach . Have you even met Rassie. Dude. Vokof trying to throw shade at other province players.


I could easily go to the under 20s and show you how province has vokked up our future rugby.

[Sards]

Sascha. Sascha. Sascha.
Vokof Manie. Vokof Willemse.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Sards. Calm down.

[Sards]

Sards. Calm down.

I speak the truth.

Sascha is the man.

[Sandstorm]

Such a fuss over AE. Typical Stomps . Always throwing shafe at other province players. That was very very unlucky. Fortunately we get to see more of him at the Sharks now.

You're the only one bringing in provinces!! I've called AE a cheap-shot artist for the last 6+ years he's been at Quins. There's no place for his "accidental mis-timed tackles...." in 2024. FACT.

The fact he's now a Shark (I'd actually not even noticed he was now in Durban) has zero bearing on my opinion of him.

[Sandstorm]

Bok depth at prop is just insane!! In any other country Steven Kitshoff would be in the 23 and probably starting at loosehead. Instead he's wandered off into well-earned retirement, years before other nation's stars and no-one is looking back again.

He's still world class too.

[OomStruisbaai]

I like AE. He was just unlucky. Want to see more of Misbok (SMZ)/AE/Moodie/Willemse as our future 10/12/13/15. They broke the All Blacks

[boere wors]

Bok depth at prop is just insane!! In any other country Steven Kitshoff would be in the 23 and probably starting at loosehead. Instead he's wandered off into well-earned retirement, years before other nation's stars and no-one is looking back again.

He's still world class too.

He was terrible at the RWC and apparently in Ireland too. Time to move on, options are plenty

[Sandstorm]

I like AE. He was just unlucky.

You like a bosh carthorse who gets cards all the time? Someone check on Oom, a Bulls fan has stolen his login!

[OomStruisbaai]

I like AE. He was just unlucky.

You like a bosh carthorse who gets cards all the time? Someone check on Oom, a Bulls fan has stolen his login!

It's about the combo and future. He and Moodie is an excellent combination.

We still have Ellendig and Kriel/Am plus Willemse as 1st choise /SMZ as backup 12.

AE was excellent with Quins but he need a 10 who can put him in space like Smith or Libbok.

[Blake]

AE was excellent with Quins but he need a 10 who can put him in space like Smith or Libbok.

That's what I've also said for ages, but I'm done making excuses for him.

He's had 18 caps for the Boks. 6 were with Pollard (4 wins, 2 losses) and 12 have been with playmaker 10's that "can put him into space" (10 wins, 2 losses). His flyhalves were:
Libbok (4)
Jantjies (4)
Willemse (3)
Hendrikse/SFM (1)

Can you recall any matches where he was effective in a Bok jersey? A MOTM performance?
I think he was pretty good in RWC warm-up match against the All Blacks at Twickenham, but even then Libbok and Moodie were the stars.

[assfly]

I've called AE a cheap-shot artist for the last 6+ years he's been at Quins. There's no place for his "accidental mis-timed tackles...." in 2024. FACT.

Then you couldn't have watched much of him. He was outstanding for Harlequins in the 4 (not 6+) years he was with them.

He was voted the RPA players' player of the year in 2022, as well as the Harlequins players' player of the year and fans player of the season in 2021/22. He also won player of the month several times.

I watched The Final Verdict last night on SS, and Buger, Shimmy and JdV all agree it was never a red as there were so many mitigating factors.

[Sards]

Thanks. I would love to have Andre for the entire URC.
Stormers can have Libbok for the entire URC campaign.


Fair trade

[Blake]

I watched The Final Verdict last night on SS, and Buger, Shimmy and JdV all agree it was never a red as there were so many mitigating factors.

Not one of them is a referee and they are stretching to try and defend him.
The only mitigation was that initial contact wasn't head-on-head which is sometimes considered, that's it. A lot of red cards are for hits that start with an initial contact being a shoulder or chest, that slide up to then hit the head or where whiplash cause a head clash because the tackler is too upright.

There really wasn't much else to mitigate, bad technique with head on the wrong side, too upright and not going in low, attacking player didn't dip a lot and there weren't any secondary dynamics with another tackler at play. It's embarrassing that they are trying to defend it.

[Sandstorm]

I watched The Final Verdict last night on SS, and Buger, Shimmy and JdV all agree it was never a red as there were so many mitigating factors.

Not one of them is a referee and they are stretching to try and defend him.
The only mitigation was that initial contact wasn't head-on-head which is sometimes considered, that's it. A lot of red cards are for hits that start with an initial contact being a shoulder or chest, that slide up to then hit the dead or where whiplash cause a head clash because the tackler is too upright.

There really wasn't much else to mitigate, bad technique with head on the wrong side, too upright and not going in low, attacking player didn't dip a lot and there weren't any secondary dynamics with another tackler at play. It's embarrassing that they are trying to defend it.

This. AE went into too high. Stupid in 2024.

TBF Kriel got away with one against Wales last month too.

You don’t see Am tackling like it’s 1999, do you?

[OomStruisbaai]

I watched The Final Verdict last night on SS, and Buger, Shimmy and JdV all agree it was never a red as there were so many mitigating factors.

Not one of them is a referee and they are stretching to try and defend him.
The only mitigation was that initial contact wasn't head-on-head which is sometimes considered, that's it. A lot of red cards are for hits that start with an initial contact being a shoulder or chest, that slide up to then hit the dead or where whiplash cause a head clash because the tackler is too upright.

There really wasn't much else to mitigate, bad technique with head on the wrong side, too upright and not going in low, attacking player didn't dip a lot and there weren't any secondary dynamics with another tackler at play. It's embarrassing that they are trying to defend it.

This. AE went into too high. Stupid in 2024.

TBF Kriel got away with one against Wales last month too.

You don’t see Am tackling like it’s 1999, do you?

Will be stupid if Rassie drop him for that red. He is the type of player you need against the All Blacks. Ellendig dont differ much from his playing style.

[Blake]

This. AE went into too high. Stupid in 2024.

TBF Kriel got away with one against Wales last month too.

You don’t see Am tackling like it’s 1999, do you?

And against Scotland in the RWC Pool match. He's been a very lucky boy.

[Blake]

Will be stupid if Rassie drop him for that red. He is the type of player you need against the All Blacks. Ellendig dont differ much from his playing style.

AE was never going to the start the big games while DDA is still available, and if we are looking for a longer term replacement for DDA we are better off converting Pollard, Willemse or SFM to 12, than persisting with a meathead card machine like Esterhuizen. And that's not even considering some of the other talent coming through that are specialist 12's.

Fuck it. Cut him loose.

[assfly]

Not one of them is a referee and they are stretching to try and defend him.
The only mitigation was that initial contact wasn't head-on-head which is sometimes considered, that's it. A lot of red cards are for hits that start with an initial contact being a shoulder or chest, that slide up to then hit the head or where whiplash cause a head clash because the tackler is too upright.

There really wasn't much else to mitigate, bad technique with head on the wrong side, too upright and not going in low, attacking player didn't dip a lot and there weren't any secondary dynamics with another tackler at play. It's embarrassing that they are trying to defend it.

I don't think it's got anything to do with defending him per se, it's just opinions on whether it was red card worthy or not. I cite them because they are decent pundits, and not the only ones who don't believe it was a red card offence, just like Matfield didn't at the time and I think quite a few others have come out to question too. Even the Potugal coach had some sympathy for AE.

As the TMO deemed it was head contact, they start at red and see if their is mitigation. (1) AE does bend his hips into the tackle, (2) the ball carrier lowers himself too, (3) the first point of contact is chest on shoulder and (4) he wraps his arms.

I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind, I just think a yellow would have been enough. But the red has probably ended his Bok career for at least the year, something a few people appear to be thrilled about.

[LoveOfTheGame]

Right. Squad selected for the Aus tour. Faf out injured. Happy to see Ruan Nortje in the mix. Saaaaaaaaaaaards, your man Manie is still in the squad.

Forwards: Ben-Jason Dixon (Stormers), Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz), Thomas du Toit (Bath), Eben Etzebeth (Sharks), Johan Grobbelaar (Bulls), Vincent Koch (Sharks), Siya Kolisi (captain – Racing 92), Elrigh Louw (Bulls), Frans Malherbe (Stormers), Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears), Bongi Mbonambi (Sharks), Salmaan Moerat (Stormers), Ox Nche (Sharks), Ruan Nortje (Bulls), Kwagga Smith (Blue Revs), RG Snyman (Leinster), Gerhard Steenekamp, Marco van Staden, Jan-Hendrik Wessels (all Bulls).

Backs: Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Kurt-Lee Arendse (Bulls), Damian de Allende (Knights), Aphelele Fassi (Sharks), Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu (Stormers), Cheslin Kolbe (Suntory Sungoliath), Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles), Willie le Roux (Bulls), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), Manie Libbok (Stormers), Handre Pollard (Leicester Tigers), Cobus Reinach (Montpellier), Morne van den Berg (Lions), Grant Williams (Sharks).