Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[Raggs]

A significant amount of infrastructure spending also gone though.

It's great that the tax on private schools and Private Equity investments is being followed through.

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

They are paying for a service, which generally come with VAT costs. Why shouldn't this one?

So their child isn't taking up a public school spot, and? I walk to work daily, none of my family even has a chance of seeing an nhs dentist, rarely use the nhs etc etc and yet my taxes are still paying for these things too. It's what taxes are for.

[inactionman]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

[petej]

A significant amount of infrastructure spending also gone though.

It's great that the tax on private schools and Private Equity investments is being followed through.

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

They are paying for a service, which generally come with VAT costs. Why shouldn't this one?

So their child isn't taking up a public school spot, and? I walk to work daily, none of my family even has a chance of seeing an nhs dentist, rarely use the nhs etc etc and yet my taxes are still paying for these things too. It's what taxes are for.

I have been irritated by it being called a tax on private schools. It is not a tax on private schools it is VAT. They are not charities and they educate the most privileged members of our society. If they were called charity schools and educated the most unfortunate then fair enough they can have the VAT exemption.

[inactionman]

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

They are paying for a service, which generally come with VAT costs. Why shouldn't this one?

So their child isn't taking up a public school spot, and? I walk to work daily, none of my family even has a chance of seeing an nhs dentist, rarely use the nhs etc etc and yet my taxes are still paying for these things too. It's what taxes are for.

I have been irritated by it being called a tax on private schools. It is not a tax on private schools it is VAT. They are not charities and they educate the most privileged members of our society. If they were called charity schools and educated the most unfortunate then fair enough they can have the VAT exemption.

The school we are looking at generally takes in kids who do not do so well under the 'traditional' school system - it's not exactly Fettes. But, yes, it is ultimately privately owned, and by nature of 5 figure fees it does require significant money to attend.

[Raggs]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

[Paddington Bear]

It won’t raise much money and they have studiously avoided adding it to university fees. I didn’t go to a private school so lack a dog in the fight, but this is clearly designed to try and hurt private schools rather than balance the books she has 100% just discovered aren’t great

[Raggs]

It won’t raise much money and they have studiously avoided adding it to university fees. I didn’t go to a private school so lack a dog in the fight, but this is clearly designed to try and hurt private schools rather than balance the books she has 100% just discovered aren’t great

Virtually nothing on it's own will raise much money, but more money needs to be raised. Just because something doesn't generate 10% of the budget by itself doesn't mean it's not a smart thing to do.

[inactionman]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

We can certainly supplement, but that is all it would be - a supplement. It doesn't address underlying issues.

We already take her to play therapy, but there's a limit on what full time working parents can do as the majority of this is daytime.

I can't see how the vat on private schools moves the dial on public schools? All I can see is an increase on pressure of places.

[inactionman]

It won’t raise much money and they have studiously avoided adding it to university fees. I didn’t go to a private school so lack a dog in the fight, but this is clearly designed to try and hurt private schools rather than balance the books she has 100% just discovered aren’t great

In their defence, Universities aren't private ventures in the same way as private schools.

eta: although I am in general agreement with the rest of your post - there's a degree of ideology to this, beyond practical benefits.

[Raggs]

We can certainly supplement, but that is all it would be - a supplement. It doesn't address underlying issues.

We already take her to play therapy, but there's a limit on what full time working parents can do as the majority of this is daytime.

I can't see how the vat on private schools moves the dial on public schools? All I can see is an increase on pressure of places.

It depends on how the needle needs to be moved. If there's a huge amount of underlying infrastructure type things that need to be just fixed, it won't move it by much. But if it's on top of what there is now, it can be more free to help improve things directly for students. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't take too many more teacher/teachers aide/staff hours to start noticeably improving outcomes.

[inactionman]

We can certainly supplement, but that is all it would be - a supplement. It doesn't address underlying issues.

We already take her to play therapy, but there's a limit on what full time working parents can do as the majority of this is daytime.

I can't see how the vat on private schools moves the dial on public schools? All I can see is an increase on pressure of places.

It depends on how the needle needs to be moved. If there's a huge amount of underlying infrastructure type things that need to be just fixed, it won't move it by much. But if it's on top of what there is now, it can be more free to help improve things directly for students. I'd be willing to bet it doesn't take too many more teacher/teachers aide/staff hours to start noticeably improving outcomes.

Is that all firmly funded and is it to be measured in months, years, decades? Unfortunately for us, my daughter really needs it now.

CAMHS waiting lists are over 2 years. That's if you get a referral - we've been bounced around by various health and social care departments for a year - and that's just to start the process.

[Jockaline]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

We can certainly supplement, but that is all it would be - a supplement. It doesn't address underlying issues.

We already take her to play therapy, but there's a limit on what full time working parents can do as the majority of this is daytime.

I can't see how the vat on private schools moves the dial on public schools? All I can see is an increase on pressure of places.

I know someone that sent one of their kids private and the other one not, as one had difficulties settling in the state school, she was younger though and the older one wouldn't have wanted to move. Not sure how old you kids are, but if one has more specialist needs then I think you can justify doing something different with one, even if it's just for a couple of years.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

They are paying for a service, which generally come with VAT costs. Why shouldn't this one?

So their child isn't taking up a public school spot, and? I walk to work daily, none of my family even has a chance of seeing an nhs dentist, rarely use the nhs etc etc and yet my taxes are still paying for these things too. It's what taxes are for.

I have been irritated by it being called a tax on private schools. It is not a tax on private schools it is VAT. They are not charities and they educate the most privileged members of our society. If they were called charity schools and educated the most unfortunate then fair enough they can have the VAT exemption.

They are charities because they meet the definition of a charity.

The reason Labour have backed off removing their charitable status is for exactly this reason - you'll have to redefine what a charity is in a way that's consistent - Starmer's a lawyer and has decided that's too difficult.

[inactionman]

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

We can certainly supplement, but that is all it would be - a supplement. It doesn't address underlying issues.

We already take her to play therapy, but there's a limit on what full time working parents can do as the majority of this is daytime.

I can't see how the vat on private schools moves the dial on public schools? All I can see is an increase on pressure of places.

I know someone that sent one of their kids private and the other one not, as one had difficulties settling in the state school, she was the younger though and the older wouldn't have wanted to move. Not sure how old you kids are, but if one has more specialist needs then I think you can justify doing something different with one, even if it's just for a couple of years.

We've discussed it, but it just leaves a gutwrenching feel that we're favouring one over the other.

[Sandstorm]

If 20% tax is added to Private Schools then that's probably 20% of students who can't go next year. So they head to the local school which is already overflowing with students and lacking teachers. This is a stupid tax trying to punish rich, Tory voters.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

If 20% tax is added to Private Schools then that's probably 20% of students who can't go next year. So they head to the local school which is already overflowing with students and lacking teachers. This is a stupid tax trying to punish rich, Tory voters.

It's one measure to help reduce inequality. So for many the point is to do more, not not do even this.

[I like neeps]

A significant amount of infrastructure spending also gone though.

It's great that the tax on private schools and Private Equity investments is being followed through.

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

[Jock42]

Hmm, Winter Fuel payments goooooone for pensioners not on some form of means-tested benefit. Probably a good thing, even the dead get it if they were alive at the September date of qualification.

Hunt desperately trying to defend the Tories' record on everything.

I'm not sure an £11,500 income is an acceptable cut off.

[inactionman]

A significant amount of infrastructure spending also gone though.

It's great that the tax on private schools and Private Equity investments is being followed through.

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

[epwc]

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

I got a scholarship to a private school, absolutely agree with you apart from "Fine thing to want to do". It's just buying privilege, not about the academic or intellectual ability of your offspring.

The only reason I went was because my form teacher and head teacher at primary put me up for it. No one in my family had even heard of such a thing. I sent my kids to the local comp, they did much better academically than me.

[inactionman]

If 20% tax is added to Private Schools then that's probably 20% of students who can't go next year. So they head to the local school which is already overflowing with students and lacking teachers. This is a stupid tax trying to punish rich, Tory voters.

It's one measure to help reduce inequality. So for many the point is to do more, not not do even this.

I'd argue the people who send their to Fettes probably won't suddenly put their kids into state comp.

[David in Gwent]

I see the usual people trying to gaslight people into thinking the removal of the fuel payment to pensioners is a good thing.

It's not a good thing.

[inactionman]

Fuel. Gaslight.

Very good.

[Paddington Bear]

If 20% tax is added to Private Schools then that's probably 20% of students who can't go next year. So they head to the local school which is already overflowing with students and lacking teachers. This is a stupid tax trying to punish rich, Tory voters.

It's one measure to help reduce inequality. So for many the point is to do more, not not do even this.

I went to a state school in a wealthy area. You knew exactly who came from money and who didn’t, and our life outcomes have broadly followed the path of our parents. I am very, very, very sceptical that putting rich kids in state schools reduces inequality.

[I like neeps]

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

[petej]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

You can't justify the exemption when you have torn up the social contract to the extent the Tories have over the last 14 years. I do have sympathy for cases like inactionmans as being caught between a decade plus of state provision being intentionally degraded and the cost of the alternative going up in part due to the former.

[inactionman]

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

The fundamental service is of education.

Being snide, I eagerly await hearing about the secret handshake my daughter becomes privy to if/when she goes to her private school.

[inactionman]

I can understand why the VAT is being added, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for us.

My eldest is struggling in school and we were looking at putting her into a small private school which is more geared to the kind of learning she needs. We'd need to put her sister in as well, partly as they struggled being separated between nursery and primary but mainly as I just can't 'invest' that much in one child and not the other. We're going to really struggle to do that now.

My biggest reservation with all of this is is that it makes planning life quite hard - we've thought it through, cut our cloth accordingly, and now it's no longer realistic as an incoming government has just added circa £6k after tax to projected annual bills - hot on the heels of Trussterfuck adding the same a few years back. The price is going up 20% just as I need the service, and it's hard not to feel a bit bitter about that, especially when it's the state school system not meeting her needs. Its led to us contemplating a move out of Edinburgh which feels quite nuclear but the in-area support isn't working and the private sector, which was just about affordable if we budgeted hard, now isn't.

I was aware that Labour were toying with this, but I can't plan life around maybes and perhapses of the opposition.

Just feeling very frustrated - and a very ineffectual parent - at the moment.


I also wonder what it'll do to the housing market, prices for catchments for Sciennes etc are going to up even further - not that we'd be that bothered as our eldest's needs aren't really met by that sort of school either.

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

You can't justify the exemption when you have torn up the social contract to the extent the Tories have over the last 14 years. I do have sympathy for cases like inactionmans as being caught between a decade plus of state provision being intentionally degraded and the cost of the alternative going up in part due to the former.

It's a tricky situation all round. I'd also augment your post to say the SNP haven't exactly helped this side of the border, but the net effect is the same.

[Jockaline]

Hmm, Winter Fuel payments goooooone for pensioners not on some form of means-tested benefit. Probably a good thing, even the dead get it if they were alive at the September date of qualification.

Hunt desperately trying to defend the Tories' record on everything.

I'm not sure an £11,500 income is an acceptable cut off.

I agree. Older people have more heating needs, they have reduced mobility and circulation, and some live in colder areas than others. Not sure what age it kicks in, but I would have raised it, excluded those above a certain tax level or graduated the amounts based on age and circumstance. I hope Scotland does something to mitigate this.

[petej]

Will add having seen bits of council budgets and school budget that they have crushed schools budgets to provide elderly care due to the ageing population. We had supposedly ring fenced money for schools from the Welsh government being funneled directly in to elderly care provision by the council. You also realise that while one of the lads, Tory mp David TC Davies would have found it funny if a state school building made of RAC had fallen down. My son's state school is very good and not in a deprived area his class room for the last year was essentially a shipping container.

[charltom]

A significant amount of infrastructure spending also gone though.

It's great that the tax on private schools and Private Equity investments is being followed through.

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

[charltom]

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

You must not have profited from all your reading as much as some of us have, then!

[charltom]

Could a private tutor perhaps help?

I was hoping/dreaming of sending my boy private too, there's now no chance of that happening. It's frustrating but not much I can do about it, and I agree with the change. Just because it's "hurting" me personally doesn't make it a bad thing.

The other hope of course, is that schools now improve, but that will take a little longer to come through.

You can't justify the exemption when you have torn up the social contract to the extent the Tories have over the last 14 years. I do have sympathy for cases like inactionmans as being caught between a decade plus of state provision being intentionally degraded and the cost of the alternative going up in part due to the former.

It's a tricky situation all round. I'd also augment your post to say the SNP haven't exactly helped this side of the border, but the net effect is the same.

Except it isn't. England's PISA rankings have (surprisingly to me( improved greatly; Scotland's have deteriorated.

[Raggs]

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

Why will bursaries no longer be given?

Got the figures for number of extra teachers? And it doesn't have to be teachers, more teachers aides will benefit the struggling children a lot more than an individual teacher, it will also allow the teacher to then get on with teaching the whole class, than spending more time trying to help those that struggle. TAs are a lot cheaper than teachers too.

[I like neeps]

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

You must not have profited from all your reading as much as some of us have, then!

The good news for all the private school kids that will apparently now go to state schools is that the books of which will benefit them more than the private schooling would have will still be tax exempt, then!

[Raggs]

You can't justify the exemption when you have torn up the social contract to the extent the Tories have over the last 14 years. I do have sympathy for cases like inactionmans as being caught between a decade plus of state provision being intentionally degraded and the cost of the alternative going up in part due to the former.

It's a tricky situation all round. I'd also augment your post to say the SNP haven't exactly helped this side of the border, but the net effect is the same.

Except it isn't. England's PISA rankings have (surprisingly to me( improved greatly; Scotland's have deteriorated.

Ranking sort of improved. Score didn't. Most countries went down between 2018 and 2022, it shouldn't be hard to work out why. England was no different, our score dropped from 2018 to 2022 too. England went down less than others, but...

1 in 3 schools didn't take part in England, and 1 in 4 students refused to take part (I presume, the 1 in 4 students, came from the remaining 2/3rds of schools). I'm willing to bet a lot that it wasn't the better performing schools or students who refused more often... England didn't actually qualify for the rankings because of this.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2022-ris ... d-results/

[I like neeps]

They're not exactly profit-bearing entities paying dividends. We should perhaps treat education differently in any case - we don't charge VAT on books despite J K Rowling and Penguin House not being charities.

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

The fundamental service is of education.

Being snide, I eagerly await hearing about the secret handshake my daughter becomes privy to if/when she goes to her private school.

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

[Paddington Bear]

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

The fundamental service is of education.

Being snide, I eagerly await hearing about the secret handshake my daughter becomes privy to if/when she goes to her private school.

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

This will likely be the case regardless of where you go to school if your parents are wealthy/well connected!

[David in Gwent]

Is the purpose of this to make everyone's lives equally shit?

[I like neeps]

The fundamental service is of education.

Being snide, I eagerly await hearing about the secret handshake my daughter becomes privy to if/when she goes to her private school.

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

This will likely be the case regardless of where you go to school if your parents are wealthy/well connected!

Right, and generally where do wealthy and well connected parents send their kids?