Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[Hal Jordan]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

We need them everywhere.

To an extent, but London is screaming for them and will not deliver them

Well, London is pretty good at building luxury flats for foreign investors/money launderers to buy and leave vacant.

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there. The fact she's 100 years old, completely lacking capacity and needs dull on residential care seems to have been wilfully ignored by her sons, so a perfectly good three bed house in Finchley is wasted.

They've faced up to reality and are finally putting it on the market now.

[Sandstorm]

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there.

That £100k+ in rent they've left on the table too.

[Paddington Bear]

We need them everywhere.

To an extent, but London is screaming for them and will not deliver them

Well, London is pretty good at building luxury flats for foreign investors/money launderers to buy and leave vacant.

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there. The fact she's 100 years old, completely lacking capacity and needs dull on residential care seems to have been wilfully ignored by her sons, so a perfectly good three bed house in Finchley is wasted.

They've faced up to reality and are finally putting it on the market now.

The exact figures are out there (don’t have them to hand), but London has fewer unoccupied homes than just about any other major European city

[sockwithaticket]

We need them everywhere.

To an extent, but London is screaming for them and will not deliver them

Well, London is pretty good at building luxury flats for foreign investors/money launderers to buy and leave vacant.

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there. The fact she's 100 years old, completely lacking capacity and needs dull on residential care seems to have been wilfully ignored by her sons, so a perfectly good three bed house in Finchley is wasted.

They've faced up to reality and are finally putting it on the market now.

1.5m 'truly empty' homes per the 2021 census. It's fucking nuts. Obviously not all of that housing will be where people want to live and there's only so much government can do to incentivise people to go where there's little economic or leisure activity, but fuck if we shouldn't be trying. Giving more protection to fully remote work and not allowing employers to suddenly renege on established working practice (albeit often not with workers being contracted as fully remote) would help people spread out to where the empty homes are.

Also need more schemes like this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg3j1qn4lj2o

I've often heard or read that it's "too expensive" to convert commercial space into residential (which I suspect is being exagerrated...), but where we have existing structures more of an effort needs to be put into using them and discouraging developers from pushing for the easier task of whacking shit new builds up.

[Sandstorm]

I've often heard or read that it's "too expensive" to convert commercial space into residential (which I suspect is being exagerrated...), but where we have existing structures more of an effort needs to be put into using them and discouraging developers from pushing for the easier task of whacking shit new builds up.

Rather make it too costly for commercial properties to stand empty in town centres for a decade without it costing the owner any money. Make them pay full rates on the empty building and they'll quickly rent it/sell it/develop it into flats pronto.

[tabascoboy]

I've often heard or read that it's "too expensive" to convert commercial space into residential (which I suspect is being exagerrated...), but where we have existing structures more of an effort needs to be put into using them and discouraging developers from pushing for the easier task of whacking shit new builds up.

Plenty of that happening here, and looking at planning permission applications show a heap of properties to change from retail/office to residential (medium sized commuter belt town). Perhaps it varies according to location and how keen councils are to see empty buildings put to some use now high street retail is struggling.

Examples here are former publishers office, Probation Service, Tax Office; and conversions/extensions to include retail ground floor with new apartments above

[epwc]

Rather make it too costly for commercial properties to stand empty in town centres for a decade without it costing the owner any money. Make them pay full rates on the empty building and they'll quickly rent it/sell it/develop it into flats pronto.

Empty rates relief doesn't exist any more (more or less), there are ways around it but in general unoccupied premises are subject to rates nowadays.

In the South East I think you can make any commercial->resi conversion pay, but where land values are low it's really difficult, especially if there's affordable housing involved.

I can't imagine you'd get much back for a resi conversion in Stoke for example

Having said that most conversions are done really poorly and end up with compromised layouts and amenities, so more attention needed in the planning phase, which means we need to define better what we want our planners to do and then resource them properly.

[Sandstorm]

Rather make it too costly for commercial properties to stand empty in town centres for a decade without it costing the owner any money. Make them pay full rates on the empty building and they'll quickly rent it/sell it/develop it into flats pronto.

Empty rates relief doesn't exist any more (more or less), there are ways around it but in general unoccupied premises are subject to rates nowadays.

In the South East I think you can make any commercial->resi conversion pay, but where land values are low it's really difficult, especially if there's affordable housing involved.

I can't imagine you'd get much back for a resi conversion in Stoke for example

Having said that most conversions are done really poorly and end up with compromised layouts and amenities, so more attention needed in the planning phase, which means we need to define better what we want our planners to do and then resource them properly.

Thanks for the clarification, mate

[petej]

To an extent, but London is screaming for them and will not deliver them

Well, London is pretty good at building luxury flats for foreign investors/money launderers to buy and leave vacant.

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there. The fact she's 100 years old, completely lacking capacity and needs dull on residential care seems to have been wilfully ignored by her sons, so a perfectly good three bed house in Finchley is wasted.

They've faced up to reality and are finally putting it on the market now.

The exact figures are out there (don’t have them to hand), but London has fewer unoccupied homes than just about any other major European city

I would be mighty suspicious of such numbers without looking at the methodologies (pretty much true of any country to country comparisons TBF)

[Sandstorm]

I wonder if it's time for the Govt to start building council houses again? Pledge to keep them in the public hands for 100 years and put people into them who really need it again. Cut out the high rents they pay to landlords to house those on benefits, manage those properties in-house and stimulate the economy by building everywhere.

[Paddington Bear]

Well, London is pretty good at building luxury flats for foreign investors/money launderers to buy and leave vacant.

And then there's my wife's grandmother's house, which has stood empty for about four years because she might come back to live there. The fact she's 100 years old, completely lacking capacity and needs dull on residential care seems to have been wilfully ignored by her sons, so a perfectly good three bed house in Finchley is wasted.

They've faced up to reality and are finally putting it on the market now.

The exact figures are out there (don’t have them to hand), but London has fewer unoccupied homes than just about any other major European city

I would be mighty suspicious of such numbers without looking at the methodologies (pretty much true of any country to country comparisons TBF)

Sure, and I’m not pretending that building big towers that are not lived in isn’t a problem. But London’s problem (which gets worse each year) is on a scale far beyond technical tweaks. It requires massive, massive building on a scale not seen for a generation, likely some new towns thrown into the bargain as well.

[epwc]

Sure, and I’m not pretending that building big towers that are not lived in isn’t a problem. But London’s problem (which gets worse each year) is on a scale far beyond technical tweaks. It requires massive, massive building on a scale not seen for a generation, likely some new towns thrown into the bargain as well.

It also needs increased density in urban centres, there's a scheme in Romford that I'm very familiar with. 1070 resi units, the three tallest towers were supposed to be 22, 18 and 16 stories this has been watered down to 16, 14 and 12 for absolutely no reason other than the councillors don't like high rises. Nobody is affected by these towers, they back onto a railways line, all of the neighbours will be within the redline of the new development. Absolutely stupid artificial brake on numbers. 14 stories @ 6 units per floor (might be 8 but lets base it on 6) = 84 units lost for no gain to anyone.

And this is a scheme that is 100% council led and funded, not by a private developer.

[sockwithaticket]

I wonder if it's time for the Govt to start building council houses again? Pledge to keep them in the public hands for 100 years and put people into them who really need it again. Cut out the high rents they pay to landlords to house those on benefits, manage those properties in-house and stimulate the economy by building everywhere.

If Labour want to meet building targets they're going to have to according to a few things I've listened to and read. The level of building required to meet a target of 1.5m houses across the parliament has never been reached except when the state was behind massive social housing construction.

It's also eminently desirable for other reasons. Whether it's hotels or benefit for private rents, councils spend a lot more money on trying to house people than they would if they still had their own housing stock to make use of. More council houses also ought to stymie demand for private accommodation and take the sting out of prices for those in that market place.

[epwc]

100% desirable, the sale of council homes was a massive mistake

[inactionman]

The reduction in council house stock was a mistake, but selling under right-to-buy and then reinvesting the returns into new housing would have been a sensible approach.

Which is obviously why we didn't do it.

[petej]

I wonder if it's time for the Govt to start building council houses again? Pledge to keep them in the public hands for 100 years and put people into them who really need it again. Cut out the high rents they pay to landlords to house those on benefits, manage those properties in-house and stimulate the economy by building everywhere.

If Labour want to meet building targets they're going to have to according to a few things I've listened to and read. The level of building required to meet a target of 1.5m houses across the parliament has never been reached except when the state was behind massive social housing construction.

It's also eminently desirable for other reasons. Whether it's hotels or benefit for private rents, councils spend a lot more money on trying to house people than they would if they still had their own housing stock to make use of. More council houses also ought to stymie demand for private accommodation and take the sting out of prices for those in that market place.

I do wonder if there are potential innovations that they could use to lower build time and cost. I get the sense that our large house building companies are not very innovative particularly if the innovation might reduce profits. Prefabricated does not have to mean shit. Though I suspect epwc might tell me that actually I'm very wrong.

[epwc]

Innovation? They've got their heads up their arses.

There was a lot of talk about factory built modular homes but that seems to have died now.

If I was building council houses right now I would only build to Passivhaus, centralised. Lots of different ways to do it well and quickly. We reckon our current project (4 shops + 20 apartments) will take 14 months start to finish, but we spent 4 months analysing the job to make sure the programme made sense, the order of trades worked etc etc

Oh, and in building time=cost so every week you save has a huge impact

[Paddington Bear]

Sure, and I’m not pretending that building big towers that are not lived in isn’t a problem. But London’s problem (which gets worse each year) is on a scale far beyond technical tweaks. It requires massive, massive building on a scale not seen for a generation, likely some new towns thrown into the bargain as well.

It also needs increased density in urban centres, there's a scheme in Romford that I'm very familiar with. 1070 resi units, the three tallest towers were supposed to be 22, 18 and 16 stories this has been watered down to 16, 14 and 12 for absolutely no reason other than the councillors don't like high rises. Nobody is affected by these towers, they back onto a railways line, all of the neighbours will be within the redline of the new development. Absolutely stupid artificial brake on numbers. 14 stories @ 6 units per floor (might be 8 but lets base it on 6) = 84 units lost for no gain to anyone.

And this is a scheme that is 100% council led and funded, not by a private developer.

We get the same in Watford, infuriating. Density around centres 100% is a core element of sorting this out

[epwc]

It’s also inherently sustainable, build the density where the services already are!

[Tichtheid]

We went up to the Hockney exhibition near Kings Cross yesterday (Recommended). The area has changed so much in the 30 years I've known it. There is so much new building going on, from the Coal Drop area beside the canal to the Google offices new bars and restaurants etc.

After meeting daughter number 3 we walked along the canal to Camden and there is a huge amount of new building going on there too

[epwc]

My middle daughter just graduated from Central St Martins, I hadn't been to Kings Cross for years when we went to look around before she started. Absolute transformation, proper expensive though

[Tichtheid]

My middle daughter just graduated from Central St Martins, I hadn't been to Kings Cross for years when we went to look around before she started. Absolute transformation, proper expensive though

Congratulations to your daughter.

[epwc]

Thanks, she made some great mates while she was there she's off to South Africa, Botswana and Zimbabwe with one of them Saturday

[_Os_]

At a time when they're having to release prisoners early due to over-crowding, multi-year sentences for peaceful protestors is insane.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re_btn_url

Perhaps a vain hope, but it'd be super swell if Labour could do something about the bullshit anti-protest measures the last government introduced.

They didn't even get to the protest. It's for conspiracy to disrupt rather than actual disruption.

An insane sentence, they will be appealed successfully you'd think.

Labour already said pre-election they're not going to repeal all the anti-protest laws as it would take up too much time. Doesn't stop new laws replacing the old laws though. The law is what it is, so I'm not sure what an appeal is going to do.

A very stupid batch of laws to create. Which very obviously will be applied more widely than climate protestors. Good luck to anyone on the far right so much as looking to protest, without positive media coverage, and looking more like a racist football hooligan than a climate protestor looking more like 12 year old girl called Tamzin or an old age pensioner. Lots of people going down for long stretches and treated like hardcore criminals once this is fully embedded.

Starmer press conference. He's going in on "far right criminals who are not protestors" as I knew he would. He was not easy on any protests that were violent whilst director of public prosecutions.

He's clear that there's going to be a cross force intelligence system including the use of facial recognition technology, and they will face "the full force of the law". He's also said once "they show who they are" they will face harsh measures including the restriction of movement "like football hooligans". Said multiple times no one can "attack a Mosque because it's a Mosque".

He's going to maul the right wing using Tory laws, with a stronger technocratic detection and enforcement mechanism "no new legislation is necessary" as he says.

[Sandstorm]

He's going to maul the right wing using Tory laws, with a stronger technocratic detection and enforcement mechanism "no new legislation is necessary" as he says.

[dpedin]

He's going to maul the right wing using Tory laws, with a stronger technocratic detection and enforcement mechanism "no new legislation is necessary" as he says.

At least he is calling them out for what they are - rioters, hooligans, mobs etc. They are not protestors or demonstrators - they stand for nothing other than racism and xenophobia. They are the equivalent of the football hooligans, tanked up on alcohol and drugs looking for a fight with the 'other side' or if there isn't one then the police will do. Fighting on the terraces, outside the stadiums or in a motorway service station is all too difficult now for them as they are well policed so let's use 'migrants' as an excuse. Casual violence, unwarranted assaults, looting shops, destroying streets all the while pissing and shitting in the street is their modus operandi. Unfortunately they are not a new phenomena, I remember the same in the 1970's and 80's, but social media has made it easier for them or rather the likes of Yaxley-Lennon and Farage of this world to organise and coordinate more easily. The latter need to be held to account for stirring up this shit! The baldy headed, fat, thick twats who turn up and turn violent are just the useful idiots who are the hired hands of these racist cunts.

[_Os_]

He's going to maul the right wing using Tory laws, with a stronger technocratic detection and enforcement mechanism "no new legislation is necessary" as he says.

At least he is calling them out for what they are - rioters, hooligans, mobs etc. They are not protestors or demonstrators - they stand for nothing other than racism and xenophobia. They are the equivalent of the football hooligans, tanked up on alcohol and drugs looking for a fight with the 'other side' or if there isn't one then the police will do. Fighting on the terraces, outside the stadiums or in a motorway service station is all too difficult now for them as they are well policed so let's use 'migrants' as an excuse. Casual violence, unwarranted assaults, looting shops, destroying streets all the while pissing and shitting in the street is their modus operandi. Unfortunately they are not a new phenomena, I remember the same in the 1970's and 80's, but social media has made it easier for them or rather the likes of Yaxley-Lennon and Farage of this world to organise and coordinate more easily. The latter need to be held to account for stirring up this shit! The baldy headed, fat, thick twats who turn up and turn violent are just the useful idiots who are the hired hands of these racist cunts.

They're going to face full on oppression. Some "influencers" are also about to learn the UK isn't the US, the American style free speech they think exists in the UK does not.

I watched some of the Westminster "protest". They were kettled then arrested one by one, anyone who left the kettle had to provide their identity and contact details. The warnings the police were giving were "do not step onto the highway, stay on the pavement" and "do not contravene section 14". This is what section 14 means:

Sections 12 and 14 of the 1986 Act (as amended by the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022) allow the police to impose any type of condition on a public procession or public assembly necessary to prevent: significant impact on persons or serious disruption to the activities of an organisation by noise; serious disorder; serious damage to property; serious disruption to the life of the community; or if the purpose of the persons organising the protest is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do.

The Public Order Bill builds on the public order measures in Part 3 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 which, amongst other things, update the powers in the 1986 Act enabling the police to impose conditions on a protest, provide for a statutory offence of intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance and increases the maximum penalty for the offence of wilful obstruction of a highway.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -factsheet

It's Braverman's law. During the parliamentary debate she used the "Guardian reading, tofu eating wokerati" line to describe who she was targeting, and mentioned Labour and the Lib Dems as specific targets. Upgrading obstructing a public highway was intended by her to target climate protestors, not mean auto arrest for people she supports if they step on a road. It was criticised at the time as making protest almost impossible, as it gave police extensive subjective and discretionary powers (what is too much noise? what is too much disruption? ... the answer is if the government doesn't like you it's anything at all).

The policing minister has said there'll be fast track convictions, as Starmer oversaw after the 2011 riots. Back then Starmer ensured maximum sentences for anyone involved, people who stole a bottle of water collected a full criminal record for burglary (not theft which is less serious) and 6 months in jail.



Tommy Ten Names is already complaining, he posted the bail sheet of someone who was at the Westminster protest. It says the offence is "Public Order Act, Section 2, Violent Disorder" (a Thatcher era law):

2 Violent disorder.
(1)Where 3 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his personal safety, each of the persons using or threatening unlawful violence is guilty of violent disorder.
(2)It is immaterial whether or not the 3 or more use or threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.
(3)No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene.
(4)Violent disorder may be committed in private as well as in public places.
(5)A person guilty of violent disorder is liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine or both, or on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/2

What that means is anyone present at a violent protest could potentially be subject to a "Section 2, Violent Disorder" charge, the key part is "who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence and the conduct of them (taken together)", someone doesn't actually have to be violent themselves to be captured by this law. Most people convicted of this receive an immediate prison sentence, it's more serious than affray. Potentially someone goes down for half a decade just for being at one of these "protests".

If all that is actually good for democracy, I'm not sure. But the most powerful PM in a very long time is making it clear "you cannot attack a Mosque because it is a Mosque", and protesting against "immigration" (when the killer is err, British) probably also isn't a good move.

[Sandstorm]

If all that is actually good for democracy, I'm not sure. But the most powerful PM in a very long time is making it clear "you cannot attack a Mosque because it is a Mosque", and protesting against "immigration" (when the killer is err, British) probably also isn't a good move.

I agree with you. But Labour can't afford to be soft on crime either at this time. The media will slaughter them.

[JM2K6]

Musk is actively boosting Tommy The Racist on twitter, unsurprisingly.

And yes, we shouldn't forget that the anti protest laws currently in place are fucking disgraceful.

[_Os_]

I agree with you. But Labour can't afford to be soft on crime either at this time. The media will slaughter them.

They're going in extremely hard. I suspect those caught and convicted are going to have a life changing experience.

The riot in Hartlepool is looking worse than Southport, a random guy was assaulted because he was brown, a residential house was attacked/widows broken/front door kicked in and people entering the house (the attack was live streamed) all to cheering and "Tommy Robinson" chants, BBC News at 10 reported last night a Muslim family had to be rescued from their home by the riot squad (if it was the same house who knows), they also attacked a Mosque there. Today an 11 year boy has been charged with arson in Hartlepool.

Hampshire police have released photos of people they're looking for (mostly from police surveillance footage) in connection with the Aldershot "protest" at a migrant hotel. The video on Twitter from that protest was peaceful, but the police say there was an incident and they're chasing it. All the people they want are white, all men other than one middle aged woman, most of them look like football hooligan types.

The father of two from the Southport protest who was hit by his own side with bricks (as I've posted before, dangerous things brawls, often get hit by your own team), has also been arrested. He's going to be loaded up with a shitload of charges: violent disorder, threats to kill and a racially aggravated public order offence. Fucking years of jail for him.

Men, women, children, parents. Starmer is coming to jail all of them.

[Hal Jordan]

And the Farages of this world will continue to just ask questions, laud these coked up, drunk racists as Defenders of the British Way of Life (whilst giving not one fuck about them) and generally spread hatred because it's lucrative.

[_Os_]

Musk is actively boosting Tommy The Racist on twitter, unsurprisingly.

His feed is insane. He's basically organising a summer racist riot tour then saying "it's all good the EDL doesn't exist" and "two tier policing" and "THE LEFT DID THIS!".

And the Farages of this world will continue to just ask questions, laud these coked up, drunk racists as Defenders of the British Way of Life (whilst giving not one fuck about them) and generally spread hatred because it's lucrative.

GB News can be shut down, it isn't impartial and that's against the law for a UK broadcaster. When that happens (it's definitely going to happen under Starmer), that's his main media platform gone.

The next move will come from this new police unit modelled on anti-football hooligan policing. Which basically means anyone captured by that unit is continually subject to police control. Part of that will be understanding who influences "far right criminals", how they organise, how they fund themselves. Then eliminating all those sources. When they're arrested and questioned they're all going to mention Twitter/Youtube/Facebook and crowd sourced funding. Starmer stated social media platforms are part of the problem, he is preparing to go to them and tell them what needs to happen (which accounts are silenced/who cannot receive crowd sourced funding). If they refuse Starmer will be able to ban the platforms in the UK if he wants to go that far. Youtube and Facebook are very popular and used by millions of ordinary people, realistically they're not going to be shut down, but they're also compliant generally. An out of control Twitter isn't in that category.

Starmer can go further than many realise if he wants.

[Sandstorm]

Men, women, children, parents. Starmer is coming to jail all of them.

Hysterical much?

[PCPhil]

Men, women, children, parents. Starmer is coming to jail all of them.

Hysterical much?

Don't forget also their cats and dogs.

[_Os_]

Men, women, children, parents. Starmer is coming to jail all of them.

Hysterical much?

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

[Sandstorm]

Men, women, children, parents. Starmer is coming to jail all of them.

Hysterical much?

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

Jails are full, bro. Where are they going to put all those women and children? Millennium Stadium?

[Hal Jordan]

Hysterical much?

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

Jails are full, bro. Where are they going to put all those women and children? Millennium Stadium?

Cruel and unusual punishment.

[sefton]

Hysterical much?

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

Jails are full, bro. Where are they going to put all those women and children? Millennium Stadium?

Time to roll out the Bibby Stockholm.

[_Os_]

Hysterical much?

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

Jails are full, bro. Where are they going to put all those women and children? Millennium Stadium?

Space will be made, these people will be going down for very serious offences on what we're seeing so far. The brick in the dick guy has so far collected: violent disorder, threats to kill and a racially aggravated public order offence. It looks like some sort of domestic abuse charge is going to be collected by him too (it appears after the riot he went home and abused his wife). You think someone collecting all that walks because he has 2 kids?

Starmer has said what he's going to do, and it's in his specialist area (law and order) where he is an expert. The media is ignoring it and quickly shuffled it down the reporting order, because the image they've created of him (boring, irrelevant) isn't who he actually is.

Some reading for you ...

The response at the time
The penal response to the rioters was enormous and unprecedented. In a bid to ramp up “the shock and awe of the criminal justice system” (as the then-chief crown prosecutor for the north-west of England actually put it), every stage of the process has been shown to have been made more punitive and more authoritarian.

The Crown Prosecution Service – led at the time by current Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer – immediately relaxed the threshold used to determine whether or not to press charges. Longstanding advice that suspects under the age of 18 should not be tried for minor offences was suspended. Actions normally regarded as theft were treated as burglary so as to ensure maximum jail time.

Cases were pushed from the magistrates’ to the crown courts, ensuring that longer sentences were available and costing minors their right to anonymity in the press. Existing sentencing guidelines were abandoned. And, despite criticisms that he was playing politics, Starmer ordered the courts to stay open 24/7 for emergency sessions.

While political pressure was undoubtedly put on the police and on the courts, many of these emergency innovations were the result of the justice system taking the initiative. It was, to borrow sociologist Carly Lightowlers and legal scholar Hannah Quirk’s phrase, a moment of “prosecutorial zeal and judicial abandon”. And it culminated in more than 2,000 people facing jail terms which were four and a half times longer than those same offences would normally warrant.
https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/08/04/ ... in-legacy/

[fishfoodie]

No that's what is happening so far. Maybe do some reading about what happened to the 2011 rioters? Starmer relaxed the threshold for pressing charges suspects under the age of 18 were charged for minor offences (against longstanding advice), crimes usually charged as theft were charged for the more serious burglary, a student went down for 6 months for stealing a bottle of water, Starmer pushed for maximum sentences in all cases. Emergency night courts were established to fast track the convictions.

Jails are full, bro. Where are they going to put all those women and children? Millennium Stadium?

Space will be made, these people will be going down for very serious offences on what we're seeing so far. The brick in the dick guy has so far collected: violent disorder, threats to kill and a racially aggravated public order offence. It looks like some sort of domestic abuse charge is going to be collected by him too (it appears after the riot he went home and abused his wife). You think someone collecting all that walks because he has 2 kids?

Starmer has said what he's going to do, and it's in his specialist area (law and order) where he is an expert. The media is ignoring it and quickly shuffled it down the reporting order, because the image they've created of him (boring, irrelevant) isn't who he actually is.

Some reading for you ...

The response at the time
The penal response to the rioters was enormous and unprecedented. In a bid to ramp up “the shock and awe of the criminal justice system” (as the then-chief crown prosecutor for the north-west of England actually put it), every stage of the process has been shown to have been made more punitive and more authoritarian.

The Crown Prosecution Service – led at the time by current Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer – immediately relaxed the threshold used to determine whether or not to press charges. Longstanding advice that suspects under the age of 18 should not be tried for minor offences was suspended. Actions normally regarded as theft were treated as burglary so as to ensure maximum jail time.

Cases were pushed from the magistrates’ to the crown courts, ensuring that longer sentences were available and costing minors their right to anonymity in the press. Existing sentencing guidelines were abandoned. And, despite criticisms that he was playing politics, Starmer ordered the courts to stay open 24/7 for emergency sessions.

While political pressure was undoubtedly put on the police and on the courts, many of these emergency innovations were the result of the justice system taking the initiative. It was, to borrow sociologist Carly Lightowlers and legal scholar Hannah Quirk’s phrase, a moment of “prosecutorial zeal and judicial abandon”. And it culminated in more than 2,000 people facing jail terms which were four and a half times longer than those same offences would normally warrant.
https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/ioe/2021/08/04/ ... in-legacy/

Yeah. I'm sure there's a tweet from frog face calling it luxury when it was brown people being stored on it