Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[_Os_]

Stoke on Trent looks very nasty though, Muslims defending their mosque, earlier in the day racist football hooligan chants from the protestors "go make us a kebab" etc. That's escalated into conflict between the two groups (as the day goes on so does the drinking). Looks like at least one white guy stabbed up and out of it on the ground, reports of another (there are images, but hard to confirm for sure it's current/not from some other event). Police looking impotent and trapped in the middle there.

Also allegedly a hammer attack. Disturbing and not too mention very stupid. While we don't know the circumstances, this serves only to give the movement confirmation that they are "right" and fuel things further - especially if police are unable to identify and arrest the attacker.

Well they may just be unfounded rumours after all...

Four men arrested in Stoke-on-Trent
Four men have been arrested in Stoke-on-Trent after disorder there.

Police denied claims on social media there had been a stabbing.

Staffordshire Police said: "There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today.

"We can confirm this information is false."

However, it did say one man was injured after being "hit by a blunt object that was thrown".

His injuries are not thought to be serious.

"Four men have been arrested in connection with the disorder and are currently in custody for questioning," the force said.

Spent some time looking into this to try and work out what happened, aspects of what happened in Stoke on Trent are the most serious (violence between opposing ethnic groups).

Definitely not a stabbing. But there's two videos from different "protestors" who were at the scene not long after, one of which sounds like a witness. One says it was a stabbing (it definitely was not), the other says it was a hammer. If it was something thrown as the police say, it seems likely it was from close range. One has clearly suffered a significant injury and is incapacitated on the ground with a lot of blood on the street, the other is sitting on the curb and smoking with blood coming from his neck/head. Oddly apart from them there's not much activity, there's not a pitched battle happening.

In an entirely separate incident also in Stoke on Trent, a video shows a masked white guy on the ground being beaten by Muslims (kicked and punched in the head), before a Muslim shouts to stop. There's no other whites in the video, but a lot of Muslims who are either beating him or running past (guessing they're chasing other "protestors").

It is clear that in Stoke on Trent a lot of Muslims in large organised groups came out to defend their mosque (full works, clad in black and chanting "Allahu Akbar"). They were armed too, some were open carrying swords and machetes.

Blackburn also had a strong Muslim showing, looks like the "protest" was cancelled there.

There is another video of masked up Muslims beating a "protestor" with an England flag to the ground, Leeds apparently but I couldn't verify that was the case.

... Generally an incredibly bad idea to start beef with ethnic Pakistanis. I knew a guy who found out his cousin was being bullied in school, car loads of him and his family pitched up at the cousin's school one day and simply beat the bully with hammers. He was happy to do the jail time and was proud he honoured his cousin.

[_Os_]

Rotherham migrant hotel, riot police are totally outnumbered by "protestors" who have beaten them back and are storming the building. Parts of the hotel also appear to be on fire. I'm sure I've seen this protests at this building by the far right on the news months back, the building looks familiar. Looks like an incredibly serious situation.

Bolton and Middlesbrough also starting up. A group of Muslims appear to be ready for the "legitimate concerns" in Bolton (clad in black/masked/chanting "Allahu Akbar"). Bolton is under a section 34 dispersal notice, which means the police can break up any gathering.

[sockwithaticket]

In slightly better news around all these 'demonstrations' some morons in Blackpool tried to stage one while 10,000 punks are around for Rebellion fest. Seen a few videos of the wannabe brownshirts getting taken down by a Doc Martin or two.

[Sandstorm]

Dunno why the cops don’t have pepper spray canisters they can use to drive these guys back when they storm the police lines……..

[_Os_]

Dunno why the cops don’t have pepper spray canisters they can use to drive these guys back when they storm the police lines……..

They're totally overwhelmed and don't have infinite resources, if they decide to be in one place yesterday when there were more riots planned, it's difficult to be in another place today.

Middlesbrough looks like a shit show, police totally overwhelmed and standing back. "Protestors" have set up a road block and stopping drivers who aren't white (they're literally asking "are you white" which seems redundant?). Running battles between "protestors" and Muslims, police are in small groups watching assaults happen. "Protestors" have also started to stop people recording and broke the Sky News camera. It's edging towards Hull yesterday, total lawlessness, but with two organised groups fighting each other. Apparently running battles throughout Middlesbrough.

No new footage from the Rotherham migrant hotel I can find. I'll never forget the "protestors" shouting "stop the boats", "fucking kill them", and "we want our country back". Chilling.

[epwc]

I guess this is what they wanted, Muslims vs white people. There's enough stupid muslims that will take part in shit like this.

[_Os_]

I guess this is what they wanted, Muslims vs white people. There's enough stupid muslims that will take part in shit like this.

I saw Muslims organised and ready in Bolton, didn't see that in Middlesbrough (may have missed it).

Middlesbrough is more fluid and I'm restricting how I make these posts (I'm not posting video, and trying as much as possible to post events I can verify). It's hard to tell what's happening in Middlesbrough other than it's total chaos, but basically some Muslims look to have been put into a situation where they have to fight (the incidents aren't clear as to the sequence etc, so I'm not going further into it). I mean we've already seen "protestors" attacking a Muslim's house in Hartlepool and live streaming it who had to be rescued by riot police (that's fact and happened), so you can work it out, and once "protestors" go for one then their family isn't stepping back ...

I saw someone live streaming Middlesbrough "protestors" attacking brown taxi drivers.

The police knew this one would be bad because Tommy Ten Names was complaining days back its organiser had been arrested on terrorism charges.

[epwc]

Dunno what to say, cunts

[Sandstorm]

Dunno why the cops don’t have pepper spray canisters they can use to drive these guys back when they storm the police lines……..

They're totally overwhelmed and don't have infinite resources, if they decide to be in one place yesterday when there were more riots planned, it's difficult to be in another place today.

Each officer having a can of spray on his belt is infinite resources??

[fishfoodie]

At what point will they call organising these riots what they are ? Terrorism !

[Sandstorm]

Want to say it’s “just Northern scum!”, however it’s happening in Weymouth this evening too.

[Slick]

At what point will they call organising these riots what they are ? Terrorism !

It has definitely moved into that area

[fishfoodie]

At what point will they call organising these riots what they are ? Terrorism !

It has definitely moved into that area

How is this different to Jan 6th in the US ?

Do we need people to be burnt alive in a hotel before the ringleaders are looking at life in gaol for directing terrorism

[Slick]

At what point will they call organising these riots what they are ? Terrorism !

It has definitely moved into that area

How is this different to Jan 6th in the US ?

Do we need people to be burnt alive in a hotel before the ringleaders are looking at life in gaol for directing terrorism

I mean, it’s quite a lot different.

[Sandstorm]

If it’s terrorism, the you have to call in the armed coppers and then this goes a whole other direction.

[JM2K6]

Dunno why the cops don’t have pepper spray canisters they can use to drive these guys back when they storm the police lines……..

They're totally overwhelmed and don't have infinite resources, if they decide to be in one place yesterday when there were more riots planned, it's difficult to be in another place today.

Each officer having a can of spray on his belt is infinite resources??

Pepper spray is likely to be of fuck all use in a riot situation tbf

[tabascoboy]

Presumably at least some of those involved in this violence will be going back to work tomorrow and try to behave as if nothing happened, would be good to think that any workmates or colleagues who have strong suspicions will report them.

[geordie_6]

I guess this is what they wanted, Muslims vs white people. There's enough stupid muslims that will take part in shit like this.

I saw Muslims organised and ready in Bolton, didn't see that in Middlesbrough (may have missed it).

Middlesbrough is more fluid and I'm restricting how I make these posts (I'm not posting video, and trying as much as possible to post events I can verify). It's hard to tell what's happening in Middlesbrough other than it's total chaos, but basically some Muslims look to have been put into a situation where they have to fight (the incidents aren't clear as to the sequence etc, so I'm not going further into it). I mean we've already seen "protestors" attacking a Muslim's house in Hartlepool and live streaming it who had to be rescued by riot police (that's fact and happened), so you can work it out, and once "protestors" go for one then their family isn't stepping back ...

I saw someone live streaming Middlesbrough "protestors" attacking brown taxi drivers.

The police knew this one would be bad because Tommy Ten Names was complaining days back its organiser had been arrested on terrorism charges.

In Boro, at least one group of the rioters were roaming about mindlessly vandalising stuff. Cars damaged or burned etc, but they were also kicking in doors and putting out windows of random houses. Also put windows out at the uni.

Tommy Ten Names had the details of the overseas hotel he is staying in published by the Mail, and he had the balls to complain that his kids were crying and worried someone would come to the hotel and get them. Whilst the fuckwits he helped whip up were forcing their way into/burning the hotel in Rotherham!

[geordie_6]

Presumably at least some of those involved in this violence will be going back to work tomorrow and try to behave as if nothing happened, would be good to think that any workmates or colleagues who have strong suspicions will report them.

There's at least one group on Twitter who are doxxing people and posting their employment info online. Or, in some cases, their criminal records.

[_Os_]

Rotherham migrant hotel, police seem to have control. Although there are still "protestors" there (the videos are dark, so it's current). Apparently 10 "protestors" forced entry during the day and went around at will doing who knows what. That's all the info I've been able to find.

Tamworth migrant hotel. "Protestors" are around it and police are overwhelmed, the fire looks much larger than Rotherham. The additional reason this one is disturbing is it looks like a copy cat crime, it isn't on the event schedule (which I'm not posting, was fairly sure before the weekend it could be considered illegal to share that, now I'm definitely sure). I cannot comprehend anyone watching those Rotherham videos and even imagining it was anything other than disturbing, completely alien to me.

[_Os_]

I guess this is what they wanted, Muslims vs white people. There's enough stupid muslims that will take part in shit like this.

I saw Muslims organised and ready in Bolton, didn't see that in Middlesbrough (may have missed it).

Middlesbrough is more fluid and I'm restricting how I make these posts (I'm not posting video, and trying as much as possible to post events I can verify). It's hard to tell what's happening in Middlesbrough other than it's total chaos, but basically some Muslims look to have been put into a situation where they have to fight (the incidents aren't clear as to the sequence etc, so I'm not going further into it). I mean we've already seen "protestors" attacking a Muslim's house in Hartlepool and live streaming it who had to be rescued by riot police (that's fact and happened), so you can work it out, and once "protestors" go for one then their family isn't stepping back ...

I saw someone live streaming Middlesbrough "protestors" attacking brown taxi drivers.

The police knew this one would be bad because Tommy Ten Names was complaining days back its organiser had been arrested on terrorism charges.

In Boro, at least one group of the rioters were roaming about mindlessly vandalising stuff. Cars damaged or burned etc, but they were also kicking in doors and putting out windows of random houses. Also put windows out at the uni.

Tommy Ten Names had the details of the overseas hotel he is staying in published by the Mail, and he had the balls to complain that his kids were crying and worried someone would come to the hotel and get them. Whilst the fuckwits he helped whip up were forcing their way into/burning the hotel in Rotherham!

Yes I've seen that video (that "protestor" rampage was live streamed on TikTok to 40k people originally). But it's another video that's more pertinent, the following post took some time to make:

There's an event where it appears a "protestor" is being beaten by a group of Muslims with planks (they look like fencing or something of that nature) which are breaking they're beating him so hard. It is happening next to a burnt out car which is not on fire, so violence has been ongoing there for sometime or has left there and come back (the car wasn't on fire, how long does it take a car to burn out?), and the Muslims weren't that well prepared (they didn't have proper tools, someone prepared at least has bats or hammers). Another interesting thing is there's two videos of this incident one from ground level and one from a first floor window (the area is terraced housing), which perhaps reinforces violence being ongoing there for some time (not many people about but two videos from different positions).

There's another video filmed sometime before this showing the car when it was set on fire (it was red before it was burned out), there's a large amount of "protestors" about many not masked. There's no police or any other emergency services and no Muslims. It's likely the "protestors" burned the car.

There is a name of a cafe visible in the videos, that can be used to find a street name and look around on Google Streetview. The car is burnt out in front of a takeaway on Parliament Road. Just from Streetview you can tell this is the type of place a medium sized town/city in the UK would be majority minority if it has any minorities.

But it's not necessary to guess, the census map has excellent data down to street level. That specific part of the road is (rounded): 48% white/4% mixed/11% black/25% Asian/11% other, 46% of people are not born in the UK (around 10% of the area arrived in the UK when they were children, so around a third of the area arrived in the UK as adults), 26.% have no passport/31.7% have a non-UK passport/41.8% have a UK passport, 8.9% of the area arrived in the UK between 2001-2010 and 33.2% between 2011-2021, 22% of the area is Muslim/0% Sikh/5% Hindu/5% Buddhist/38% Christian.

The roads two up and two down (its terraced in a grid) are much the same an area of about 5 terraced roads in total, there's an area adjacent (around the university) about the same size which looks less white but similar (I think that's where the TikTok live streamed rampage happened?). That tiny area accounts for nearly all of Middlesbrough's racial minority population (small pockets elsewhere).

If you look around on Streetview and watched a lot of videos you can start placing some other videos. There's a park at the end of Faraday Street which joins Parliament Road (a one minute walk from the burnt out car at most), where there was another incident. A group of "protestors" are beating a man (presumably for not being white), there's police there but they're at the entrances to the park and not intervening. There's another video which is probably of the same park, but it's short and the person filming is told to stop by "protestors".

The claim is that "protestors" attacked that area (they certainly did) because it is diverse (it is), including shops and houses (unknown, but in the videos with the burnt out car the doors do look kicked in to the takeaway and the business next door, and the TikTok rampage seems to have happened in the adjacent less white residential area ... but I haven't verified that for sure), and Muslims mobilised and reacted (impossible to know unless you were there I suspect).

My view ... a place unused to people who aren't white, decided to have a massive race riot (or rather its hooligans and those from outside did), and is now probably shocked by the response. Quite a few videos of Muslims beating suspected "protestors" unconscious in Middlesbrough. Not a large Muslim community there really (about 10% Asian and 10% Muslim, 2% originally from Pakistan).

[_Os_]

There is a name of a cafe visible in the videos, that can be used to find a street name and look around on Google Streetview. The car is burnt out in front of a takeaway on Parliament Road. Just from Streetview you can tell this is the type of place a medium sized town/city in the UK would be majority minority if it has any minorities.

But it's not necessary to guess, the census map has excellent data down to street level. That specific part of the road is (rounded): 48% white/4% mixed/11% black/25% Asian/11% other, 46% of people are not born in the UK (around 10% of the area arrived in the UK when they were children, so around a third of the area arrived in the UK as adults), 26.% have no passport/31.7% have a non-UK passport/41.8% have a UK passport, 8.9% of the area arrived in the UK between 2001-2010 and 33.2% between 2011-2021, 22% of the area is Muslim/0% Sikh/5% Hindu/5% Buddhist/38% Christian.

The roads two up and two down (its terraced in a grid) are much the same an area of about 5 terraced roads in total, there's an area adjacent (around the university) about the same size which looks less white but similar (I think that's where the TikTok live streamed rampage happened?). That tiny area accounts for nearly all of Middlesbrough's racial minority population (small pockets elsewhere).

This is the aftermath on Athol Street (which joins Parliament Road), it's maybe a 5 minute walk from the burnt car. Put it up because it's not showing actual violence and not glorifying anything.

"Protestors" were walking in large groups down these roads stoning the windows of houses, kicking in the doors of houses, jumping on the windscreens of the cars and stoning car windows. They were almost going house to house. There's a video somewhere of an elderly white person asking what the fuck they are doing. From the video I've seen it's mostly young chavs doing it. They knew exactly what sort of area they were in.

[_Os_]

Labour are going to have to be a lot more careful about how they approach this than Ed Balls is being here, given the Labour voting coalition.

The entire event was predicated on the Southport killer being Muslim and an immigrant when he was neither of those things, mosques were marched on and attacked. Refusing to say it's Islamophobic is bizarre.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

I see Musk is proving yet again what a complete dickhead he is. Even the right-wing papers seem to think he's contributing to the problem.

[sturginho]

I see Musk is proving yet again what a complete dickhead he is.

You could post this on any thread at any given time and it would be true

[I like neeps]

The thing is absolutely nobody knows what a good level of immigration is numbers wise. It's far too complicated a discussion for the electorate who don't really care about politics.

Everyone knows the benefits - skills which are needed to grow the economy, a bit of cultural fusion is no bad thing.

Everyone knows the downsides - too much pressure on infrastructure, pressure of integration, governments get lazy on addressing skills gaps/childcare.

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

[epwc]

The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

I bloody well hope not

[Hugo]

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

I agree. Riots, uprisings, peasant revolts and such have always been a thing. MLK described them as the language of the unheard.

When the people of the lower classes feel like they are getting the shaft and the conditions of their lives become intolerable this is an expected and very predictable outcome. Whether it's 19th century France, modern day Britain, ancient Rome or Tsarist Russia.

The options to any govt are what that have always been on a spectrum, you can repress them or on the opposite end of the scale you can try and bring in reforms that provide some type of relief to the proletariat.

My guess is that more times than not riots occur due to underlying economic reasons moreso than social or political but I can't back that up with evidence, it's just my hunch.

[Sandstorm]

The options to any govt are what that have always been on a spectrum, you can repress them or on the opposite end of the scale you can try and bring in reforms that provide some type of relief to the proletariat.

My guess is that more times than not riots occur due to underlying economic reasons moreso than social or political but I can't back that up with evidence, it's just my hunch.

It's a very good hunch. Its a fact that "peasants" are happy when they have a bit of money in their pockets.

Govt needs to borrow and invest like crazy in infrastructure and hosing starting today!! Create jobs and send money into the economy.
Then you raise the tax-free threshold to £20K and those people at the bottom immediately have more cash. No more riots.
Add additional layers into the higher tax bracelets (nothing has been updated since the 1990s which is fucking ludicrous with the accumulated wealth of the top 5% in the 21st century!!) and collect that tax properly.

That's the only way that trickle-down actually works.

[I like neeps]

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

I agree. Riots, uprisings, peasant revolts and such have always been a thing. MLK described them as the language of the unheard.

When the people of the lower classes feel like they are getting the shaft and the conditions of their lives become intolerable this is an expected and very predictable outcome. Whether it's 19th century France, modern day Britain, ancient Rome or Tsarist Russia.

The options to any govt are what that have always been on a spectrum, you can repress them or on the opposite end of the scale you can try and bring in reforms that provide some type of relief to the proletariat.

My guess is that more times than not riots occur due to underlying economic reasons moreso than social or political but I can't back that up with evidence, it's just my hunch.

The riots are obviously caused by economic reasons. There won't be one person sentenced for the rioting who has a well paid job.

Not to say immigration isn't an issue because it is. But the rioting as with most crime is just a load of people with nothing better to do/no work in the morning. And the UK has growing numbers of people without well paid aspirational work in the morning.

[Hugo]

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

I agree. Riots, uprisings, peasant revolts and such have always been a thing. MLK described them as the language of the unheard.

When the people of the lower classes feel like they are getting the shaft and the conditions of their lives become intolerable this is an expected and very predictable outcome. Whether it's 19th century France, modern day Britain, ancient Rome or Tsarist Russia.

The options to any govt are what that have always been on a spectrum, you can repress them or on the opposite end of the scale you can try and bring in reforms that provide some type of relief to the proletariat.

My guess is that more times than not riots occur due to underlying economic reasons moreso than social or political but I can't back that up with evidence, it's just my hunch.

The riots are obviously caused by economic reasons. There won't be one person sentenced for the rioting who has a well paid job.

Not to say immigration isn't an issue because it is. But the rioting as with most crime is just a load of people with nothing better to do/no work in the morning. And the UK has growing numbers of people without well paid aspirational work in the morning.

Agree 100%.

[_Os_]

Last night was a definite further escalation.

Birmingham - Muslims on a roundabout apparently there to meet the "protestors". Thing is it was never apparent there was any there. With the "protestor" gatherings, they gather for a bit peacefully then their hate/anger boils over into a riot, how bad it gets depends on how many police there are. This was the first time that happened with a non-protestor group. Started with flooring a white guy squaring up to them outside a pub (very silly showing any attitude/squaring up/putting his fists up ... to a literal Muslim mob of 100s of people, looking for heads to kick in), the guy who started his beating also prevented him at the very least being hospitalised, casually walked up to him put on a lot of boxing steps and head movement (the white guy stood no chance) and floored him in a single hook, more then piled in when he was on the ground kicking him in the head and the first guy physically put his body over him and stopped it. Total hooliganism on the roads outside the pub (police should follow up the number plates). Then going through cars (in parked traffic?) preventing them leaving (including slashing tyres) and looking for "EDL", which became attacking white guys that looked wrong from what can be made out (the only video of any violence on a person is the pub guy), one guy tried to drive his car through them (blue BMW) as it was being vandalised and ended up abandoning it and running off on foot. There were other abandoned cars. No police anywhere, very reminiscent of Hull when "protestors" were attacking cars driven by anyone not white and hauling the occupants out then beating them.

Plymouth - Protest met by police, some arrests. Some videos out there after the protest (at night) of "protestors" being hunted. In one of the videos the person filming says "Muslims and Antifa" are there and also says the Muslims are armed, two of the black clad and masked men can be made out to have long pocket key chains (young white guy/alternative music attire). I think it's fair to say whites were working with Muslims to beat "protestors" in Plymouth, all in black and masked up, which I haven't seen before. Antifa is more of an American thing in the UK Antifa exists but the direct action element (finding Neo-Nazi activity and paying them a visit) probably isn't large (no way of knowing unless you're involved, but I know some of it does exist). What is larger are animal rights activists and hunt sabs, these groups are very committed and know how to avoid the police (including closely vetting whose allowed in and not advertising what they do), by definition a lot of what they're committed to is illegal direction action, I class them as low grade domestic terrorists (which is how the authorities class them and why they try to infiltrate them). Hunt sabs were definitely at one counter protest but were peaceful (quite a range involved with that stuff, from young skinny vegan girls to large guys that quite like fighting ... who of course are also vegan). Plymouth is 95% white, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the violence that happened in the darkness was between whites with a lot of people travelling in from around the West Country (basically whoever was at Bristol and wanted more).

There's a new list out there covering more of England including the south. Looks ominous, multiple violent subcultures converging.

[Jockaline]

The thing is absolutely nobody knows what a good level of immigration is numbers wise. It's far too complicated a discussion for the electorate who don't really care about politics.

Everyone knows the benefits - skills which are needed to grow the economy, a bit of cultural fusion is no bad thing.

Everyone knows the downsides - too much pressure on infrastructure, pressure of integration, governments get lazy on addressing skills gaps/childcare.

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

Business should pay for importing skills, say double their NI contributions which will go towards the cost of social housing the NHS etc. If their skills are really that important they will pay.

[I like neeps]

The thing is absolutely nobody knows what a good level of immigration is numbers wise. It's far too complicated a discussion for the electorate who don't really care about politics.

Everyone knows the benefits - skills which are needed to grow the economy, a bit of cultural fusion is no bad thing.

Everyone knows the downsides - too much pressure on infrastructure, pressure of integration, governments get lazy on addressing skills gaps/childcare.

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

Business should pay for importing skills, say double their NI contributions which will go towards the cost of social housing the NHS etc. If their skills are really that important they will pay.

You do have to pay an annual NHS surcharge in relation to visa costs as things stand.

[Raggs]

The thing is absolutely nobody knows what a good level of immigration is numbers wise. It's far too complicated a discussion for the electorate who don't really care about politics.

Everyone knows the benefits - skills which are needed to grow the economy, a bit of cultural fusion is no bad thing.

Everyone knows the downsides - too much pressure on infrastructure, pressure of integration, governments get lazy on addressing skills gaps/childcare.

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

Business should pay for importing skills, say double their NI contributions which will go towards the cost of social housing the NHS etc. If their skills are really that important they will pay.

You do have to pay an annual NHS surcharge in relation to visa costs as things stand.

And it's not cheap either. Plus of course, you still pay NI etc.

[_Os_]

The riots are obviously caused by economic reasons. There won't be one person sentenced for the rioting who has a well paid job.

A very lefty bit of reasoning there, Neeps! That it's the conditions that shape the course of the events not the individuals. Is it really true though? There's countries at least as diverse and definitely with more economic problems, are they doing this?

This guy drove from Harlow to Middlesbrough so he could "protest" against all people who aren't white in the UK. I'm struggling with the idea of someone from <checks notes> South East England, travelling to one of the poorest areas on the British Isles because "the economic conditions made me do this".

[Jockaline]

The thing is absolutely nobody knows what a good level of immigration is numbers wise. It's far too complicated a discussion for the electorate who don't really care about politics.

Everyone knows the benefits - skills which are needed to grow the economy, a bit of cultural fusion is no bad thing.

Everyone knows the downsides - too much pressure on infrastructure, pressure of integration, governments get lazy on addressing skills gaps/childcare.

The reality on the rioting is that it's angry people without much life opportunities kicking off. Older people whose life have passed by and young people who can't see the future being that great are going to kick off no matter what - prisons are full of people like that. The UK has more of more people like this as the economy outside of London is pretty bad everywhere. The Leeds riots a few weeks back and these riots are just how things will be.

Business should pay for importing skills, say double their NI contributions which will go towards the cost of social housing the NHS etc. If their skills are really that important they will pay.

You do have to pay an annual NHS surcharge in relation to visa costs as things stand.

Didn't know that, but it's not just a cost to the NHS that importing abroad cost the society that these business operate in, so would scrap that and replace with a more significant community charge.

A graduate tax on employers too, reducing standard corporation tax to mitigate for those willing to employ and train a young person that has not been saddled with debt. There's no reason to employ graduates for a lot of jobs and this shuts a lot out people of the 'aspirational' jobs market.

These ideas maybe nuts, but we do need to make changes.

[I like neeps]

Business should pay for importing skills, say double their NI contributions which will go towards the cost of social housing the NHS etc. If their skills are really that important they will pay.

You do have to pay an annual NHS surcharge in relation to visa costs as things stand.

Didn't know that, but it's not just a cost to the NHS that importing abroad cost the society that these business operate in, so would scrap that and replace with a more significant community charge.

A graduate tax on employers too, reducing standard corporation tax to mitigate for those willing to employ and train a young person that has not been saddled with debt. There's no reason to employ graduates for a lot of jobs and this shuts a lot out people of the 'aspirational' jobs market.

These ideas maybe nuts, but we do need to make changes.

As Raggs says it's not really cheap to hire immigrants as is. It would be easier and cheaper to hire British people as it is.

You do get tax benefits for hiring apprentices (training). Graduate tax is kind of pointless as the largest employers of graduates are successful companies so you'd be giving them fairly large tax breaks they don't actually need. Or every business really as we have loads of graduates.

The reason the anti immigration Tory party didn't cut migration numbers is that it's actually very hard to do so. Anyway the issue we have with integration isn't as much with first generation immigrants it's second/third generation.

[I like neeps]

The riots are obviously caused by economic reasons. There won't be one person sentenced for the rioting who has a well paid job.

A very lefty bit of reasoning there, Neeps! That it's the conditions that shape the course of the events not the individuals. Is it really true though? There's countries at least as diverse and definitely with more economic problems, are they doing this?

This guy drove from Harlow to Middlesbrough so he could "protest" against all people who aren't white in the UK. I'm struggling with the idea of someone from <checks notes> South East England, travelling to one of the poorest areas on the British Isles because "the economic conditions made me do this".

An LBC caller with an anecdote isn't really evidence of anything. There's no vetting of these callers. I doubt it's true as they were riots in London so he'd have to reason to go a place with low immigration to riot. But anyway even if it is true it's hardly an economic marker of success anyway affording a drive to Middlesbrough. And suggests his Monday morning isn't too busy if he can do an 8 hour round trip + rioting on a Sunday and then call LBC to tell the tale on the Monday.

You just need to look at the people who have been arrested. A number have multiple convictions. They aren't productive members of society as productive members of society don't have the incentive to riot. They have legitimate grievances in that the UK economy means if you're born in Middlesbrough you'll likely have a worse life with worse outcomes than if you're born somewhere more economically productive. And you can blame immigrants for the reason you don't have a great job, and the town centre is a sh*thole, but it's not the fault of immigrants or even immigration policy. Have strict caps on immigration for the next 10 years and Middlesbrough remains a economically inactive sh*thole sadly. Transformational change is needed in the UK to improve the life chances of people born out with London and surrounds.

[epwc]

Have strict caps on immigration for the next 10 years and Middlesbrough remains a economically inactive sh*thole sadly. Transformational change is needed in the UK to improve the life chances of people born out with London and surrounds.

Yes, and as I've previously said "levelling up" will likely take 3 terms to begin having a meaningful effect, but that's only if the intent really is there.