So, coronavirus...

[Slick]

Spend vast resources protecting the vulnerable.

Come on don't be coy. You've spent the best part of 6 months, across at least 2 forums, rubbishing everything and anything anyone has done or suggested, you must have a well thought out plan. Just a few bullet points?

You think the UK government has done a good job ?

And of course your premise for conversation isn’t true either, the lockdown had to occur and I supported that. The release though has been awful, he decisions around care home dreadful. The performance of PHE as expected from the state.

I do have thoughts regarding what’s next and they revolve around protection of the vulnerable. That isn’t controversial, your personal dislike though clouds any possibility of a conversation.

Yeah, so yet again when you get asked to expand on anything it's either:

1) Ask another question to deflect
2) "Can't have an honest debate with you for x reason"
3) Attack the questioner

Over and over.

Months of rubbishing every other poster and you can't articulate a vague plan of your own.

[Bimbowomxn]

Come on don't be coy. You've spent the best part of 6 months, across at least 2 forums, rubbishing everything and anything anyone has done or suggested, you must have a well thought out plan. Just a few bullet points?

You think the UK government has done a good job ?

And of course your premise for conversation isn’t true either, the lockdown had to occur and I supported that. The release though has been awful, he decisions around care home dreadful. The performance of PHE as expected from the state.

I do have thoughts regarding what’s next and they revolve around protection of the vulnerable. That isn’t controversial, your personal dislike though clouds any possibility of a conversation.

Yeah, so yet again when you get asked to expand on anything it's either:

1) Ask another question to deflect
2) "Can't have an honest debate with you for x reason"
3) Attack the questioner

Over and over.

Months of rubbishing every other poster and you can't articulate a vague plan of your own.

Months of not agreeing with every poster...

I can articulations a plan, I’ve no interest in doing so for you. You don’t want an honest conversation see above.

Now do run along .

[JM2K6]

I can articulations a plan

fucking hell now I have tea all over my keyboard

[Bimbowomxn]

I can articulations a plan

fucking hell now I have tea all over my keyboard

[Slick]

And amazingly the same applies for the 2 or 3 other posters that have asked you.

Almost like you don't have one and just want to spend every day on every thread being contrary.

[Bimbowomxn]

And amazingly the same applies for the 2 or 3 other posters that have asked you.

Almost like you don't have one and just want to spend every day on every thread being contrary.

Not quite sure you read what I’ve posted above about interest in your opinion. I’m not contrary to most opinion, lots of posters are either shouted down or can’t be bothered to post disagreements. I’m currently in a situation where I have time.

I’m also not being that controversial regarding performance of “lockdowns” , “rubbish messaging” , “alternative methods of dealing with covid” “fears of economic disaster”.

But they’re made to be such by posters who don’t like being challenged or in your case having anything pointed out,

[Bimbowomxn]

Here’s a question to you who want a plan, how much money do you think care homes would have needed extra to have serious protections in place , include staff being paid to isolate , private testing , and guards checking in and outs.

[Sandstorm]

Here’s a question to you who want a plan, how much money do you think care homes would have needed extra to have serious protections in place , include staff being paid to isolate , private testing , and guards checking in and outs.

Is the answer less than £400mil?

[Slick]

Here’s a question to you who want a plan, how much money do you think care homes would have needed extra to have serious protections in place , include staff being paid to isolate , private testing , and guards checking in and outs.

Is the answer less than £400mil?

[Bimbowomxn]

Here’s a question to you who want a plan, how much money do you think care homes would have needed extra to have serious protections in place , include staff being paid to isolate , private testing , and guards checking in and outs.

Is the answer less than £400mil?

Billion, we are 400 billion in now.

[MoreOrLess]

I’ve clearly stated, I’d throw proper resource at protection if he vulnerable.

This does seem like a reasonable proposition. We could certainly be more shrewd and targetted with the cash we're burning through.

Care homes are a low-hanging fruit as well, but everything else is much harder to pin down e.g.:

• Who's vulnerable?

• How do I know I'm not vulnerable to long term effects? What if I am but I've not had any of the shielding benefits because I didn't know?

• How do we make sure the vulnerable are actually shielding? Can we force them to never leave the house? What's the right amount of shielding?

• What if someone who is supposed to be shielding breaks the rules and gets sick? Do we leave them to fend for themselves and learn their lesson?

• What if I choose not to shield and still get critically sick? Is that my fault for thinking I'm invicible?

• Who of the previous 2 points gets priority for treatment?

There's countless more questions and not anwering any of them feels akin to Boris making grandiose but vague statements about "green industrial revolutions" and "building back better".

[Bimbowomxn]

I’ve clearly stated, I’d throw proper resource at protection if he vulnerable.

This does seem like a reasonable proposition. We could certainly be more shrewd and targetted with the cash we're burning through.

Care homes are a low-hanging fruit as well, but everything else is much harder to pin down e.g.:

• Who's vulnerable?

• How do I know I'm not vulnerable to long term effects? What if I am but I've not had any of the shielding benefits because I didn't know?

• How do we make sure the vulnerable are actually shielding? Can we force them to never leave the house? What's the right amount of shielding?

• What if someone who is supposed to be shielding breaks the rules and gets sick? Do we leave them to fend for themselves and learn their lesson?

• What if I choose not to shield and still get critically sick? Is that my fault for thinking I'm invicible?

• Who of the previous 2 points gets priority for treatment?

There's countless more questions and not anwering any of them feels akin to Boris making grandiose but vague statements about "green industrial revolutions" and "building back better".

Surely the vulnerable in the community could be given proper warnings and then are free to make some choices. We have billions remember.

[Bimbowomxn]

Who's vulnerable?
How do I know I'm not vulnerable to long term effects? What if I am but I've not had any of the shielding benefits because I didn't know?
How do we make sure the vulnerable are actually shielding? Can we force them to never leave the house? What's the right amount of shielding?
What if someone who is supposed to be shielding breaks the rules and gets sick? Do we leave them to fend for themselves and learn their lesson?
What if I choose not to shield and still get critically sick? Is that my fault for thinking I'm invicible?
Who of the previous 2 points gets priority for treatment?

1) the old, fat and diabetic..... we know this now.

2) long term effects are no worse or common than those from flu. We are only 6 months in btw, we have no idea of the long term.

3) yes we trust the vulnerable in the community to shield . Ffs

4) we treat the sick without fear nor favour, the fat and the smokers still get treatment for everything, this would be no different.

5) I’m not discussing Fault see q4.

6) we don’t need to make priorities..... we don’t over any other illness.

[MoreOrLess]

Surely the vulnerable in the community could be given proper warnings and then are free to make some choices. We have billions remember.

We've basically done that already then. Old people, diabetics, the obese, we have a reasonable handle on the co-morbidity factors. We even had a week or so of Boris telling everyone to stop being obese!

We're still finding people that get sick or die of Covid with one or more of these factors, so what more can we do? These people either:

• Don't know they have underlying issues;

• Know they have underlying issues but still made a decision that resulted in them catching Covid, or;

• Know they have an underlying issue but don't realise the danger from catching Covid.

It's only the last group who will benefit from proper warnings. Arguably, the second group are already breaking rules / laws and should be treated accordingly. How do we shield the first group?

[Bimbowomxn]

Anyway, looks like Northern England at least shuts down on the 11th. The 11th has been planned for weeks.

Bet they close whole country down.

[Bimbowomxn]

Surely the vulnerable in the community could be given proper warnings and then are free to make some choices. We have billions remember.

We've basically done that already then. Old people, diabetics, the obese, we have a reasonable handle on the co-morbidity factors. We even had a week or so of Boris telling everyone to stop being obese!

We're still finding people that get sick or die of Covid with one or more of these factors, so what more can we do? These people either:

• Don't know they have underlying issues;

• Know they have underlying issues but still made a decision that resulted in them catching Covid, or;

• Know they have an underlying issue but don't realise the danger from catching Covid.

It's only the last group who will benefit from proper warnings. Arguably, the second group are already breaking rules / laws and should be treated accordingly. How do we shield the first group?

We have billions, we get community testing of blood sugars. People only need a mirror regarding their obesity.

Anyway we have wasted months locking Everyone down, we look like we’re going to waste another 6 months doing the same.

If general lockdowns actually worked then it’s a surprise that the heavier and strictest lockdown areas are seeing growing problems.

[Rinkals]

We are properly through the looking glass now, cancer kills on average 165,000 people per annum in the UK, every year not just this one, against 42,000 Covid deaths of which the average age of death from Covid in Scotland was 79 for men and 84 for women. 1 in 2 people born after 1960 will be diagnosed with some form of cancer during their lifetime (from Cancer Research UK). So it definitely makes sense to make our shoddy treatment of those with cancer even worse to focus so heavily on Covid. Yep, perfect sense.

Cancer is contagious?

I didn't know that.

Give yourself a slap.

I think it's quite clear that Cancer is not contagious, so using the comparative figures for deaths of each to make a point about whether to focus on one or the other is not really valid.

That is the point I was making.

[MoreOrLess]

community testing of [anything]

Are you sure that's really going to work? I assuming Harding will be nowhere close to that scheme. Granted, lessons are there to be learned but we haven't seen a great track record of that recently.

If general lockdowns actually worked then it’s a surprise that the heavier and strictest lockdown areas are seeing growing problems.

What are the reasons that a lockdown wouldn't stop people getting seriously sick, beside these....?

• People who we are trusting to shield aren't shielding;

• People don't know they are susceptible and accidentally get sick, even when they obey the rules.

[Bimbowomxn]

community testing of [anything]

Are you sure that's really going to work? I assuming Harding will be nowhere close to that scheme. Granted, lessons are there to be learned but we haven't seen a great track record of that recently.

If general lockdowns actually worked then it’s a surprise that the heavier and strictest lockdown areas are seeing growing problems.

What are the reasons that a lockdown wouldn't stop people getting seriously sick, beside these....?

• People who we are trusting to shield aren't shielding;

• People don't know they are susceptible and accidentally get sick, even when they obey the rules.

There you go, I’m totally wrong. Let’s erm.... save billions.....

Oh hang on.

[MoreOrLess]

There you go, I’m totally wrong. Let’s erm.... save billions.....

Oh hang on.

Sorry....I don't follow. I think your solution is good in principle.

We're already informing people and letting them make choices and we're already demostrating how poor we are at community testing yet cases go up, with or without a lockdown.

Where else do we direct the millions so that we save the billions?

[Bimbowomxn]

There you go, I’m totally wrong. Let’s erm.... save billions.....

Oh hang on.

Sorry....I don't follow. I think your solution is good in principle.

We're already informing people and letting them make choices and we're already demostrating how poor we are at community testing yet cases go up, with or without a lockdown.

Where else do we direct the millions so that we save the billions?

My point is in this case we can direct BILLIONS to save further billions. Considering Cummings is supposedly the “disrupter” the lack of imagination is palpable.

[MoreOrLess]

My point is in this case we can direct BILLIONS to save further billions. Considering Cummings is supposedly the “disrupter” the lack of imagination is palpable.

I agree wholeheartedly! There has to be a better way but there's a lack of imagination here as well.

I can't figure out the practicalities so I was hoping for some help. Otherwise it's just sweeping statements which sound great but aren't really any use.

[Slick]

My point is in this case we can direct BILLIONS to save further billions. Considering Cummings is supposedly the “disrupter” the lack of imagination is palpable.

I agree wholeheartedly! There has to be a better way but there's a lack of imagination here as well.

I can't figure out the practicalities so I was hoping for some help. Otherwise it's just sweeping statements which sound great but aren't really any use.

Have you two not met before?

[MoreOrLess]

Have you two not met before?

I dunno, lurking around PR for a few years has generally been quite insightful. I appreciate having my point of view adjusted for free.

This discussion has been pretty circular for quite a long time and has raised far more questions than it's answered. Just trying to re-stimulate some gratuitous learning!

[Bimbowomxn]

My point is in this case we can direct BILLIONS to save further billions. Considering Cummings is supposedly the “disrupter” the lack of imagination is palpable.

I agree wholeheartedly! There has to be a better way but there's a lack of imagination here as well.

I can't figure out the practicalities so I was hoping for some help. Otherwise it's just sweeping statements which sound great but aren't really any use.

Ok , some practicals which would be easy , send care homes a couple of million each (obviously averaged out) to spend on staff allowing for proper isolation.

Send local authorities money for their at home cared for.

Ignite charities for the elderly with cash injections for them to help and engage the local communities for the elderly.

Ask “Diabetes UK” to share resources on their data base and contact lists (though GPS should also have theirs) to again engage directly in shielding efforts, offer cash to the fat young ones to stay home.

Treat the rest.

[JM2K6]

Almost 30% of the population is obese.

[MoreOrLess]

Almost 30% of the population is obese.

Then there's the Type 1 diabetics that aren't obese. The undiagnosed kidney conditions, respiratory illnesses, the immunosupressed. What proportion of the population of one or more of the known or supposed comorbidities?

We managed to keep it away from these people with a full lockdown. And we've learned better ways to treat Covid. Is letting people get it and hoping you catch most severely compromised early enough the only way to find out how serious it can be?

[Bimbowomxn]

Almost 30% of the population is obese.

The obese under 40 can be treated slightly differently.

[Bimbowomxn]

Almost 30% of the population is obese.

Then there's the Type 1 diabetics that aren't obese. The undiagnosed kidney conditions, respiratory illnesses, the immunosupressed. What proportion of the population of one or more of the known or supposed comorbidities?

We managed to keep it away from these people with a full lockdown. And we've learned better ways to treat Covid. Is letting people get it and hoping you catch most severely compromised early enough the only way to find out how serious it can be?

Considering the average age of Corona deaths is higher than average life expectancy, the vast majority of these people would be captured in the elderly.

We spent 400 billion protecting these “undiagnosed “ while letting known cancer patients go.

[Insane_Homer]

[Bimbowomxn]

Oh good, false numbers bloke is back,

[fishfoodie]

Almost 30% of the population is obese.

Then there's the Type 1 diabetics that aren't obese. The undiagnosed kidney conditions, respiratory illnesses, the immunosupressed. What proportion of the population of one or more of the known or supposed comorbidities?

We managed to keep it away from these people with a full lockdown. And we've learned better ways to treat Covid. Is letting people get it and hoping you catch most severely compromised early enough the only way to find out how serious it can be?

You did ?

Who do you think are the excess deaths ?

Everyone likes to talk about shielding the vulnerable; but I don't think any society managed it; & my confidence in any society doing it this winter, is proportionate, to how well that society as managed the pandemic overall.

In the UK, your Government knowing sent infected elderly into Care homes, which didn't have adequate PPE, or sufficient preparations to try & segregate these patients.

In Ireland; our Government spoke as soon as we locked down about shielding the elderly; & the demographics of our Covid deaths show we did a piss poor job of that,

Oz & NZ were virtually Covid free, & then fucked up the relatively simple task of making sure that anyone coming into the country was clear before letting them out into society.

[Glaston]

Numbers at Newcastle Uni are mad


From 90 last friday to over 1000 in a week

"Newcastle University said 1,003 students and 12 members of staff were confirmed to have Covid-19 in the past week,
compared with 94 last Friday."
BBC

[fishfoodie]

Numbers at Newcastle Uni are mad


From 90 last friday to over 1000 in a week

"Newcastle University said 1,003 students and 12 members of staff were confirmed to have Covid-19 in the past week,
compared with 94 last Friday."
BBC

and how many have it, but no symptoms ?

[Slick]

Numbers at Newcastle Uni are mad


From 90 last friday to over 1000 in a week

"Newcastle University said 1,003 students and 12 members of staff were confirmed to have Covid-19 in the past week,
compared with 94 last Friday."
BBC

and how many have it, but no symptoms ?

I’ve absolutely no evidence but I’m pretty sure they are responsible for the big increase in Edinburgh.

I’m particularly worried about the numbers of students walking around with face masks on outside. My suspicion is they have it with no or mild symptoms and think this is OK

[Sandstorm]

Numbers at Newcastle Uni are mad


From 90 last friday to over 1000 in a week

"Newcastle University said 1,003 students and 12 members of staff were confirmed to have Covid-19 in the past week,
compared with 94 last Friday."
BBC

4.5% of all students. Matches figures elsewhere

[Bimbowomxn]

The STD numbers are probably similar.

[Ovals]

Some people on here were poo pooing Chris Witty just a few days ago....................

The UK could see 50,000 new coronavirus cases a day by mid-October without further action, the government's chief scientific adviser has warned.

Sir Patrick Vallance said that would be expected to lead to about "200-plus deaths per day" a month after that.

[Bimbowomxn]

Some people on here were poo pooing Chris Witty just a few days ago....................

The UK could see 50,000 new coronavirus cases a day by mid-October without further action, the government's chief scientific adviser has warned.

Sir Patrick Vallance said that would be expected to lead to about "200-plus deaths per day" a month after that.

But we took his action.........

[Biffer]

Numbers at Newcastle Uni are mad


From 90 last friday to over 1000 in a week

"Newcastle University said 1,003 students and 12 members of staff were confirmed to have Covid-19 in the past week,
compared with 94 last Friday."
BBC

and how many have it, but no symptoms ?

I’ve absolutely no evidence but I’m pretty sure they are responsible for the big increase in Edinburgh.

I’m particularly worried about the numbers of students walking around with face masks on outside. My suspicion is they have it with no or mild symptoms and think this is OK

Theres 250 confirmed cases in Newington and Dalkeith Road neighbourhood in the last week, which is where Pollock Halls are, and another 178 in the adjacent meadows, marchmont and old town areas. That’s 428 out of 798 in the seven days to 6th October.

Population of Newington and Dalkeith Road is about 6500, so that’s around 4% of the population infected in a week. Other areas mentioned is about 24,400. So that’s 428 cases in a population of about 31,000 or 1380 cases per 100,000, and 370 cases in the remaining 450,000 or so which is 82 cases per 100,000. The latter cases per 100,000 is still worryingly high.

So it looks like students are a significant contributor, but we can’t just think it’s all them.