President Trump and US politics catchall

[Uncle fester]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

The left has little to do with any of this. Biden was historically unpopular by the time he bailed, Harris came in and immediately cratered the moment she announced she was a Biden clone who wouldn't do anything different, Bill fucking Clinton gave a speech that essentially said it was fine for Palestinian kids to be killed en masse, and most of the focus was on outreach to swing voters - by which they meant "republicans who might switch". Wanking on about having republicans in their team, tacking to the right on policy, getting Liz fucking Cheney on board, targeting suburban Republican women - everything they said and did was basically Republican-lite.

People need to understand that guys who spout off about " woke scolds" like the dude quoted above are not potential Democrat voters in any real sense.

The only thing that rings true with that quote is the unintentional link of the party with corporate America. That is exactly what it is: it exists to make huge amounts of money, it is there to defend itself and the status quo, and it would rather lose than have capital affected in any way. These people don't actually stand for anything, just like how corporations pay lip service to progressive values in public and then fuck everyone for a percentage. They are grasping, greedy fools who recognise that the most important thing is to keep the money coming in, and being in opposition makes fund raising easier.

Actually progressive issues on the ballots largely did great. Actual progressives were voted for. Corporate snakes in human skin suits who view this all as a game that is played solely for the benefit of the donors and beneficiaries do not inspire people to vote for them, because they clearly stand for nothing and they abandon their fake principles the moment that capital is threatened. And so a number of people on the left recognise the threat from Trump, but also recognise the threat from a Democrat party that does not represent the left or the working class in any meaningful way, who gleefully crack down on protest and civil liberties, who do nothing to protect or enhance the rights of those they pretend to represent, who even more gleefully fund and supply an ongoing massacre of a trapped population, and who would do little with power except entrench the status quo even further. A status quo that is already incredibly shit for workers in the US.

You have to give people something to vote for. When the machine of US politics is laid bare like this, people rightly turn their noses up.

By rights, they should be voting for Bernie or Liz Warren, not numbskulls talking about border walls but they can't get the nomination.

[Sandstorm]

Seen online - "Voters primarily care about their personal finances at the same time as being financially illiterate"..

The dems kept telling people how great the economy is while wages have stagnated and groceries are twice as expensive

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

[JM2K6]

Seen online - "Voters primarily care about their personal finances at the same time as being financially illiterate"..

The dems kept telling people how great the economy is while wages have stagnated and groceries are twice as expensive

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

[Uncle fester]

Speaking of Bernie.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie- ... =115582079

[Flockwitt]

The dems kept telling people how great the economy is while wages have stagnated and groceries are twice as expensive

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah well guess what happens when the gravy train of cheap shit from China stops working the way it used to. The lovely joy of lets thump Chyna... oooo hell, prices are starting to up. Let's throw more money into the economy, ooo, look prices are going up again. The table thumpers screaming about jobs going off shore - while they've actually got nearly full employment - and then they realise that local production actually means paying for it. Globalisation has worked, the world is a far richer place than ever before.

The real issue is the distribution of wealth. Only nobody is selling that story.

[JM2K6]

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah well guess what happens when the gravy train of cheap shit from China stops working the way it used to. The lovely joy of lets thump Chyna... oooo hell, prices are starting to up. Let's throw more money into the economy, ooo, look prices are going up again. The table thumpers screaming about jobs going off shore - while they've actually got nearly full employment - and then they realise that local production actually means paying for it. Globalisation has worked, the world is a far richer place than ever before.

The real issue is the distribution of wealth. Only nobody is selling that story.

Well, no one in power, anyway. We think we've got it bad here, but the warping nature of money in US politics is obscene and the Dems are completely captured by corporate interests and the 0.1% who fancy themselves as liberals

They absolutely will not allow anyone who threatens that to get anywhere near power in their party.

[Flockwitt]

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah well guess what happens when the gravy train of cheap shit from China stops working the way it used to. The lovely joy of lets thump Chyna... oooo hell, prices are starting to up. Let's throw more money into the economy, ooo, look prices are going up again. The table thumpers screaming about jobs going off shore - while they've actually got nearly full employment - and then they realise that local production actually means paying for it. Globalisation has worked, the world is a far richer place than ever before.

The real issue is the distribution of wealth. Only nobody is selling that story.

Well, no one in power, anyway. We think we've got it bad here, but the warping nature of money in US politics is obscene and the Dems are completely captured by corporate interests and the 0.1% who fancy themselves as liberals

They absolutely will not allow anyone who threatens that to get anywhere near power in their party.

No arguement from me on that one. When you actively allow Super PACs to own elections then guess what happens, elections are all about the rich. The man on the street who's voted for Trump because his tube of toothpaste cost a dollar more than it did six years ago doesn't know what a real depression is like, raised in a consumer debt society he just wants to continue to buy stuff.

[fishfoodie]

The dems kept telling people how great the economy is while wages have stagnated and groceries are twice as expensive

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

[Hugo]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

The left has little to do with any of this. Biden was historically unpopular by the time he bailed, Harris came in and immediately cratered the moment she announced she was a Biden clone who wouldn't do anything different, Bill fucking Clinton gave a speech that essentially said it was fine for Palestinian kids to be killed en masse, and most of the focus was on outreach to swing voters - by which they meant "republicans who might switch". Wanking on about having republicans in their team, tacking to the right on policy, getting Liz fucking Cheney on board, targeting suburban Republican women - everything they said and did was basically Republican-lite.

People need to understand that guys who spout off about " woke scolds" like the dude quoted above are not potential Democrat voters in any real sense.

The only thing that rings true with that quote is the unintentional link of the party with corporate America. That is exactly what it is: it exists to make huge amounts of money, it is there to defend itself and the status quo, and it would rather lose than have capital affected in any way. These people don't actually stand for anything, just like how corporations pay lip service to progressive values in public and then fuck everyone for a percentage. They are grasping, greedy fools who recognise that the most important thing is to keep the money coming in, and being in opposition makes fund raising easier.

Actually progressive issues on the ballots largely did great. Actual progressives were voted for. Corporate snakes in human skin suits who view this all as a game that is played solely for the benefit of the donors and beneficiaries do not inspire people to vote for them, because they clearly stand for nothing and they abandon their fake principles the moment that capital is threatened. And so a number of people on the left recognise the threat from Trump, but also recognise the threat from a Democrat party that does not represent the left or the working class in any meaningful way, who gleefully crack down on protest and civil liberties, who do nothing to protect or enhance the rights of those they pretend to represent, who even more gleefully fund and supply an ongoing massacre of a trapped population, and who would do little with power except entrench the status quo even further. A status quo that is already incredibly shit for workers in the US.

You have to give people something to vote for. When the machine of US politics is laid bare like this, people rightly turn their noses up.

This is it.

It's a party that represents the interests of capital. Sure, there's some window dressing but when you get down to the heart of it it is a party that advocates for the rich.

This was all obvious in 2016 when you could see that to centrist Democrats losing was preferable to a Sanders presidency.

[Flockwitt]

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

This. I said as much when I returned from the States earlier this earlier. Repeated it when a colleague returned with the same impression and knew damn well that fundamental was still there. In a functioning democracy it still shouldn’t be enough to hand the keys to an individual like Trump but when you get an emotive movement it gets its own momentum and to hell with the facts.

[fishfoodie]

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

This. I said as much when I returned from the States earlier this earlier. Repeated it when a colleague returned with the same impression and knew damn well that fundamental was still there. In a functioning democracy it still shouldn’t be enough to hand the keys to an individual like Trump but when you get an emotive movement it gets its own momentum and to hell with the facts.

In a functional Democracy, when someone tries taking over power by force, you either gaol them or put them against a wall & shoot them !

You definitely don't let them try again !

[Paddington Bear]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

The left has little to do with any of this. Biden was historically unpopular by the time he bailed, Harris came in and immediately cratered the moment she announced she was a Biden clone who wouldn't do anything different, Bill fucking Clinton gave a speech that essentially said it was fine for Palestinian kids to be killed en masse, and most of the focus was on outreach to swing voters - by which they meant "republicans who might switch". Wanking on about having republicans in their team, tacking to the right on policy, getting Liz fucking Cheney on board, targeting suburban Republican women - everything they said and did was basically Republican-lite.

People need to understand that guys who spout off about " woke scolds" like the dude quoted above are not potential Democrat voters in any real sense.

The only thing that rings true with that quote is the unintentional link of the party with corporate America. That is exactly what it is: it exists to make huge amounts of money, it is there to defend itself and the status quo, and it would rather lose than have capital affected in any way. These people don't actually stand for anything, just like how corporations pay lip service to progressive values in public and then fuck everyone for a percentage. They are grasping, greedy fools who recognise that the most important thing is to keep the money coming in, and being in opposition makes fund raising easier.

Actually progressive issues on the ballots largely did great. Actual progressives were voted for. Corporate snakes in human skin suits who view this all as a game that is played solely for the benefit of the donors and beneficiaries do not inspire people to vote for them, because they clearly stand for nothing and they abandon their fake principles the moment that capital is threatened. And so a number of people on the left recognise the threat from Trump, but also recognise the threat from a Democrat party that does not represent the left or the working class in any meaningful way, who gleefully crack down on protest and civil liberties, who do nothing to protect or enhance the rights of those they pretend to represent, who even more gleefully fund and supply an ongoing massacre of a trapped population, and who would do little with power except entrench the status quo even further. A status quo that is already incredibly shit for workers in the US.

You have to give people something to vote for. When the machine of US politics is laid bare like this, people rightly turn their noses up.

This is it.

It's a party that represents the interests of capital. Sure, there's some window dressing but when you get down to the heart of it it is a party that advocates for the rich.

This was all obvious in 2016 when you could see that to centrist Democrats losing was preferable to a Sanders presidency.

A number of us have said this on a number of threads only to be shouted down but I do not think the ‘liberal left’ for want of a better phrase understand that they are the cultural establishment, in hock with business, media etc. The teenage edgelord saying ‘there are only two genders’ is the modern equivalent of the bloke making fart sounds at chapel.

[_Os_]

The Tories lost heavily when campaigning on immigration because they have presided over the largest demographic transition in British history, not because it is a nothing issue! No one believed that they’d reduce it.

And whilst there is some truth behind the ‘real issue’ being services etc., at some point the ‘left’ will need to start taking people at their word that the issue is numbers above all and that people tend to dislike demographic change. If you want to ignore it be my guest but we see once more where it leads

Exactly Mr.Bear, it was an incredibly dumb move. The Tories went with it though.

Maybe an opportunity for the Tories to get back in on immigration, but that's regardless of what Labour does. Immigration didn't keep rising under New Labour, it plateaued under them, the Tories then claimed their devil Tony Blair was responsible for immigration which changed from net emigration to net immigration under Thatcher. The Tories were still blaming tony Blair in the GE this year, it's a lie that worked for them for a very long time.

None of this is about the numbers of immigrants. Labour could cut the numbers. People that have "legitimate concerns" over immigration, are not going to vote Labour, they're going to keep voting Tory or Reform (and before them Brexit Party/UKIP/BNP/NF). If there were no immigrants they would find new targets, the suspiciously named "second and third generation immigrants" (ie British people who are not white), they're already using the term "indigenous" as a way of talking about white British (ie British people who aren't white are grouped with immigrants), some comments from Reform types about Kemi Badenoch's full name, and so on. What they're never going to do is vote Labour. Which means Labour is best off not talking about their "legitimate concerns" basically at all.

[Flockwitt]

I see the poor dears at Harvard University need a few classes off to get over the shock and disappointment of Harris losing.

FFS!!!!

This is the attitude the future leaders are bringing with them. Is there any surprise there is push back from the rest of society?

[_Os_]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

[Biffer]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

Immigration is a mask for other problems. It's the political 'look over there' favoured by populists

[JM2K6]

I see the poor dears at Harvard University need a few classes off to get over the shock and disappointment of Harris losing.

FFS!!!!

This is the attitude the future leaders are bringing with them. Is there any surprise there is push back from the rest of society?

Whining about students is, thankfully, one of the traditions that will exist as long as the education systems exist.

Anyway, I don't think it stacks up too badly with the response from the other side last time out, hey

[Flockwitt]

I see the poor dears at Harvard University need a few classes off to get over the shock and disappointment of Harris losing.

FFS!!!!

This is the attitude the future leaders are bringing with them. Is there any surprise there is push back from the rest of society?

Whining about students is, thankfully, one of the traditions that will exist as long as the education systems exist.

Anyway, I don't think it stacks up too badly with the response from the other side last time out, hey

True enough. After all it’s quite clear that Harvard degree is no longer a guarantee of high office vs delivering a message to the people who disdain the student derived elites - for obvious reasons. Let’s continue to promote the social divide.

[Biffer]

I see the poor dears at Harvard University need a few classes off to get over the shock and disappointment of Harris losing.

FFS!!!!

This is the attitude the future leaders are bringing with them. Is there any surprise there is push back from the rest of society?

Whining about students is, thankfully, one of the traditions that will exist as long as the education systems exist.

Anyway, I don't think it stacks up too badly with the response from the other side last time out, hey

True enough. After all it’s quite clear that Harvard degree is no longer a guarantee of high office vs delivering a message to the people who disdain the student derived elites - for obvious reasons. Let’s continue to promote the social divide.

Wow. Suck into the propaganda more.

[Flockwitt]

Whining about students is, thankfully, one of the traditions that will exist as long as the education systems exist.

Anyway, I don't think it stacks up too badly with the response from the other side last time out, hey

True enough. After all it’s quite clear that Harvard degree is no longer a guarantee of high office vs delivering a message to the people who disdain the student derived elites - for obvious reasons. Let’s continue to promote the social divide.

Wow. Suck into the propaganda more.

Ah. You seem to be missing the point. I’m discussing the reality of what happened. Not some smug ivory tower attitude that’s had its time. Unless people wake up to the idea that the voting patterns have moved the great unwashed will continue to dominate politics while the hand wringers ask for time off to deal with it all.

[_Os_]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

Immigration is a mask for other problems. It's the political 'look over there' favoured by populists

Populism provides an answer to sock's question about a left wing politics capable of winning voters with "legitimate concerns" about immigration. Which would be a shit show in the US.

Back to East Germany. Before the AfD there was another populist East German focused party that was strong in similar places. PDS (currently called Die Linke) the direct successor of the communist party which ruled the GDR. Particularly on foreign policy there's overlap with the AfD (strange views on Ukraine, pro-Russian and anti-NATO noises, Euro sceptic, rant more than is normal about Israel, that sort of thing). In the UK they would be Corbyn/Galloway types. At their peak had around 5m voters, now around 2m. Not sure the extent of overlap with AfD supporters, but they're both strongest in the same part of Germany, and Die Linke has weakened as AfD has strengthened. It's not like there were a lot of far right parties for the AfD to eat. Die Heimat (formerly the NPD) a post-WW2 West German party and the direct successors of the DNVP and unofficially also the successors to the Nazi party, they were almost dead before the wall came down then rapidly became an East German party of 500k+ voters, they also collapsed when the AfD grew but weren't large enough to explain much AfD support.

If the Democrats want to win voters convinced that black immigrants eat dogs and other mad claims, they need to go full Galloway. It would be the left wing mirror of Trump, mad conspiracy minded communists. As the US electoral system only produces two parties, it would more or less destroy US democracy. Surely, never going to happen.

[Biffer]

True enough. After all it’s quite clear that Harvard degree is no longer a guarantee of high office vs delivering a message to the people who disdain the student derived elites - for obvious reasons. Let’s continue to promote the social divide.

Wow. Suck into the propaganda more.

Ah. You seem to be missing the point. I’m discussing the reality of what happened. Not some smug ivory tower attitude that’s had its time. Unless people wake up to the idea that the voting patterns have moved the great unwashed will continue to dominate politics while the hand wringers ask for time off to deal with it all.

No, you’re taking an ideological viewpoint and forcing it on to a situation to try to back yourself up.

[Uncle fester]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

Trouble with that read is that the same electorate voted in a black son of an African man.
For two terms.

It's difficult to square this with "it's about race" but Jesus the rhetoric and dog whistles now are just ugly.

[Uncle fester]

The Tories lost heavily when campaigning on immigration because they have presided over the largest demographic transition in British history, not because it is a nothing issue! No one believed that they’d reduce it.

And whilst there is some truth behind the ‘real issue’ being services etc., at some point the ‘left’ will need to start taking people at their word that the issue is numbers above all and that people tend to dislike demographic change. If you want to ignore it be my guest but we see once more where it leads

Exactly Mr.Bear, it was an incredibly dumb move. The Tories went with it though.

Maybe an opportunity for the Tories to get back in on immigration, but that's regardless of what Labour does. Immigration didn't keep rising under New Labour, it plateaued under them, the Tories then claimed their devil Tony Blair was responsible for immigration which changed from net emigration to net immigration under Thatcher. The Tories were still blaming tony Blair in the GE this year, it's a lie that worked for them for a very long time.

None of this is about the numbers of immigrants. Labour could cut the numbers. People that have "legitimate concerns" over immigration, are not going to vote Labour, they're going to keep voting Tory or Reform (and before them Brexit Party/UKIP/BNP/NF). If there were no immigrants they would find new targets, the suspiciously named "second and third generation immigrants" (ie British people who are not white), they're already using the term "indigenous" as a way of talking about white British (ie British people who aren't white are grouped with immigrants), some comments from Reform types about Kemi Badenoch's full name, and so on. What they're never going to do is vote Labour. Which means Labour is best off not talking about their "legitimate concerns" basically at all.

Risky move in a FPTP system.

[Paddington Bear]

The Tories lost heavily when campaigning on immigration because they have presided over the largest demographic transition in British history, not because it is a nothing issue! No one believed that they’d reduce it.

And whilst there is some truth behind the ‘real issue’ being services etc., at some point the ‘left’ will need to start taking people at their word that the issue is numbers above all and that people tend to dislike demographic change. If you want to ignore it be my guest but we see once more where it leads

Exactly Mr.Bear, it was an incredibly dumb move. The Tories went with it though.

Maybe an opportunity for the Tories to get back in on immigration, but that's regardless of what Labour does. Immigration didn't keep rising under New Labour, it plateaued under them, the Tories then claimed their devil Tony Blair was responsible for immigration which changed from net emigration to net immigration under Thatcher. The Tories were still blaming tony Blair in the GE this year, it's a lie that worked for them for a very long time.

None of this is about the numbers of immigrants. Labour could cut the numbers. People that have "legitimate concerns" over immigration, are not going to vote Labour, they're going to keep voting Tory or Reform (and before them Brexit Party/UKIP/BNP/NF). If there were no immigrants they would find new targets, the suspiciously named "second and third generation immigrants" (ie British people who are not white), they're already using the term "indigenous" as a way of talking about white British (ie British people who aren't white are grouped with immigrants), some comments from Reform types about Kemi Badenoch's full name, and so on. What they're never going to do is vote Labour. Which means Labour is best off not talking about their "legitimate concerns" basically at all.

It is absolutely not true to say that it didn’t go up under New Labour - what on earth statistics are you looking at?

[JM2K6]

True enough. After all it’s quite clear that Harvard degree is no longer a guarantee of high office vs delivering a message to the people who disdain the student derived elites - for obvious reasons. Let’s continue to promote the social divide.

Wow. Suck into the propaganda more.

Ah. You seem to be missing the point. I’m discussing the reality of what happened. Not some smug ivory tower attitude that’s had its time. Unless people wake up to the idea that the voting patterns have moved the great unwashed will continue to dominate politics while the hand wringers ask for time off to deal with it all.

My friend, you are absolutely 100% being a hand wringer over this.

There is nothing out of the ordinary about heavily invested young people taking a loss badly. It's part of being young.

[TB63]

The following is a compilation of specific things that Trump has proposed in his Project 47 platform in writing, on video and in interviews and rally speeches. Why the hell the Harris campaign thought arguing whether Kevin Roberts's wish list was Trump's agenda, rather than actually focusing on these things, just completely mystifies me.

Here they are:

BUDGET & TAXES:

1. No taxes on tips.

2. Interest on car loans will be tax deductible.

3. No taxes on Social Security payments.

4. No taxes on any overtime income.

5. Across the board income tax cut for every taxpayer.

6. Make previous Trump tax cuts permanent.

7. Cut the corporate tax rate.

8. No cuts in benefits or changes in Social Security retirement age.

9. The federal budget will be cut by 33%.

10. Tax credits for home caregivers who are family members.

11. Repeal the Impound Control Act of 1974, which will prohibits a president from withholding funding approved by Congress in their budget that he disagrees with.

12. Interest rates on credit cards will be capped at 10%.

IMMIGRATION:

13. All migrants, including those with pending asylum claims, will be taken into custody and deported immediately by invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.

14. Birthright citizenship will be ended by executive order. All persons who were born in the US to migrant parents will have their citizenship revoked and will be deported immediately.

15. Border will be closed with no migrants entering the US by moving thousands of US troops from overseas to be stationed on the southern border.

16. Border wall across southern US and Mexico will be completed.

17. All releases into the US of asylum seekers will be ended and Remain in Mexico policy reinstated.

18. Increase criminal penalties for illegal entry.

19. Reinstitute travel ban.

GENERAL DOMESTIC POLICY:

20. Construct 10 new 'Freedom Cities' in the US which will be completely free from all government regulations of any kind.

21. No EV mandates or subsidies.

22. Create a Central Bank Digital Currency.

23. Homelessness will be criminalized and all homeless in the US will be arrested and given the choice of incarceration or admission into a new federal tent city for treatment.

24. Federal tent cities for arrested homeless - "Homeless Rehabilitation Centers' - will be fully staffed with doctors, psychiatrists and social workers.

25. Send astronauts to the moon.

26. Send astronauts to Mars.

27. Open federal lands to new home construction.

28. Seize control of the District of Columbia and have all city agencies run and controlled by the federal government.

29. Build new national monuments.

30. Create a federal task force to combat anti-Christian bias.

31. Provide housing for all 33,000 homeless veterans.

32. IVF will be fully covered with no out-of-pocket costs to parents.

33. Create job training and skills programs for all recovering drug addicts.

34. Provide federal funding for faith-based drug treatment centers.

35. Expand the Family & Medical Leave Act to require all employers to give time off for drug rehabilitation programs.

36. Create a White House Task Force called 'Salute 250,' which will organize one year of festivities across the US from Memorial Day 2025 to July 4, 2026.

37. Create the 'Great American State Fair' which will be held in Iowa each year with exhibits from all 50 states. (Promised right before the Iowa Caucus).

38. Create 'The Patriot Games' which will be an annual national competition for high school athletes in every sport similar to the Olympics.

39. Everyone over 18 shall be given the option to opt out of all content moderation on social media platforms.

40. Content moderation on social media platforms must not use AI.

41. Former employees of FBI, CIA, NSA, DNI, DHS and DOD shall not be permitted to take any job with a social media company for 7 years after leaving government service.

42. Have the US opt out of the Paris Climate Accords.

43. Repeal Biden's Administrations motor vehicle emissions standards.

44. The US government and agencies will only recognize people for the gender on their original birth certificate for all purposes.

45. All healthcare providers who perform gender reassignment surgeries are people under 18 will be permanently terminated from Medicare and Medicaid.

EDUCATION:

46. Abolish the Department of Education.

47. Parents of all public schools can vote to remove a principal at any time.

48. School principals will be elected by parents each year.

49. Seize endowments of universities who either have DEI programs, consider race in admissions or hiring, or teach CRT. Endowments will be seized by levying a fine in lawsuits brought by DOJ that is equal to the amount in the endowment

50. A portion of money seized from university endowments will be used to compensate people who have been discriminated against in admissions and hiring due to DEI or preferences. (Intended for White people and Asians)

51. Deport foreign students who are pro-Hamas or make anti-American statements on campus.

52. End tenure for teachers and professors.

53. Increase merit pay for teachers.

54. Universal, national school choice for all school systems in the country.

55. Bible study will be instituted in public schools.

56. School prayer will be instituted in public schools.

57. All student who assaults a teacher or another student will be permanently expelled from that school.

58. All schools receive additional funding to "harden" them against school shooters and invaders.

59. College tuition at all colleges and universities will be reduced.

60. Create 'The American Academy' which will be a University run by the federal government. Tuition will be free. It will be paid for by money seized from other Universities' endowments. Full curriculum will be online available to all Americans for free. Students will receive a fully credentialed bachelor's degree.

61. $10,000 per child tax credit for home schooling.

62. All high school and college accreditors shall be fired immediately with accreditation services replaced by a group appointed by the president.

63. Revoke federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs dedicated to combatting disinformation and misinformation online.

64. Teacher certification will be changed and governed by a new federal agency that will only grant certifications to teachers who "embrace patriotic values."

FOREIGN POLICY & NATIONAL DEFENSE:

65. Require the EU to reimburse the US for all aid provided to Ukraine from the time of Russia's invasion to present.

66. End Ukraine war within 24 hours of taking office.

67. End the conflict between Israel and Gaza within 24 hours.

68. End violence inside Lebanon.

69. Create an Iron Dome Missile Defense Shield that will protect the entire US.

70. Increase defense spending to highest levels in history.

71. China will prevent the export of all fentanyl precursors.

TRADE:

72. Across the board 10% tariff on all foreign imports.

73. Tariffs of 20-60% imposed on all goods imported from China.

74. Revoke China's Most Favored Nation Status for trade.

75. Stop importation of all EVs from China.

76. All companies with plants in China or importing parts manufactured in China will be banned from conducting any business with the US government. (Proposed when Musk was supporting Desantis).

77. Tariff placed on all imports of Ibuprofen, Hydrocortisone, Acetaminophen, and Penicillin until 100% of each drug sold in the US is manufactured in the US.

78. The Trump Reciprocal Trade Act will impose tariffs on all imports equal to tariffs imposed by a foreign country on US products.

79. Chinese companies will be forced to sell all US holdings in energy, tech, telecommunications, farmland, natural resources, and medical supplies.

80. Return all auto manufacturing jobs from US auto companies with plants in Mexico to the US by imposting huge tariffs on Mexico.

ENERGY POLICY:

81. Authorize new drilling for oil to increase production above current levels.

82. Lift ban on exports of natural gas to other countries.

83. Electricity and home energy bills will be reduced by 50%.

84. New nuclear power plants will be authorized and constructed.

85. Over 200 new power plants using coal and other fossil fuels will be constructed.

86. All electric grids will be modernized.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:

87. Pardon defendants convicted and arrested for crimes related to J6 and stolen classified documents.

88. Have the US Navy implement a naval blockade to prevent all fentanyl precursors from entering the US by sea.

89. Federal immunity for state and local police officers to prohibit civil rights and excessive force lawsuits being brought against them.

90. Death penalty for human trafficking offenses.

91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.

92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).

93. DOJ will investigate and prosecute local District Attorneys believed to have persecuted because of their religious believes, such as anti-abortion activists outside clinics.

[Calculon]

America's economy is still much better than nearly everyone else.

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

My brother lives in a tiny village in Vermont. He went over to central London for the summer and was shocked how cheap things were. IIRC he claimed groceries and eating out was half the price what he pays back in the US.

For all the talk about how well the American economy is doing a lot of people are struggling and large parts of it are very run down. America is great if you are rich but it is becoming increasingly shit for those who are not.

[fishfoodie]

And yet things are patently worse for the majority of people in the workforce. It's almost like it's a really facile way to determine the economic health of the people who live there rather than the companies that make money off them

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

My brother lives in a tiny village in Vermont. He went over to central London for the summer and was shocked how cheap things were. IIRC he claimed groceries and eating out was half the price what he pays back in the US.

For all the talk about how well the American economy is doing a lot of people are struggling and large parts of it are very run down. America is great if you are rich but it is becoming increasingly shit for those who are not.

and voters stupidly believed the GOP that this is down to Government being too big, when it's just corporations being even bigger robbing bastards than usual, as shown by the cnut being put in charge of Efficiency, being a guy who demanded $7k dollars in bonus for every car the company ever sold !

[Slick]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

Who told you that? I think you are imagining things

One issue troubling voters was migration, according to pre-election surveys, with respondents in Thuringia and Saxony citing it as among their top three concerns along with crime and “social protection.” According to one survey for German public television, 81-percent of voters agreed with the statement: “We need a fundamentally different asylum and refugee policy so that fewer people come to us.”

[Sandstorm]

My brother lives in a tiny village in Vermont. He went over to central London for the summer and was shocked how cheap things were. IIRC he claimed groceries and eating out was half the price what he pays back in the US.

Food in the UK is very cheap. Certainly cheaper than Western Europe. It's more expensive than it was a few years ago, but is still good value in comparison.

[Calculon]

Yeah, had some family over visiting during the summer, & they couldn't believe how much cheaper a steak was here versus the US; inflation cranked up the cost of everything, & the cost rises have been very sticky because the nice little cartels that control things don't feel like passing on the reality that their costs spiked & then went down.

Meanwhile all the corporations are making record profits & giving real terms pay cuts since Covid.

I felt sick in the pit of my stomach when the sentiment polls came out when the polls closed; the Democrats were going to get the blame for it all, & in a two party system that means voting for some scum who were in large part responsible for the state of the economy, & weren't shy about telling those paying attention that they planned on making things a whole lot worse !!

My brother lives in a tiny village in Vermont. He went over to central London for the summer and was shocked how cheap things were. IIRC he claimed groceries and eating out was half the price what he pays back in the US.

For all the talk about how well the American economy is doing a lot of people are struggling and large parts of it are very run down. America is great if you are rich but it is becoming increasingly shit for those who are not.

and voters stupidly believed the GOP that this is down to Government being too big, when it's just corporations being even bigger robbing bastards than usual, as shown by the cnut being put in charge of Efficiency, being a guy who demanded $7k dollars in bonus for every car the company ever sold !

A victory for America’s number one oligarch

[Paddington Bear]

My brother lives in a tiny village in Vermont. He went over to central London for the summer and was shocked how cheap things were. IIRC he claimed groceries and eating out was half the price what he pays back in the US.

Food in the UK is very cheap. Certainly cheaper than Western Europe. It's more expensive than it was a few years ago, but is still good value in comparison.

The British supermarket industry is astonishingly efficient, it is noticeable wherever you go that supermarket shops are more expensive overseas

[JM2K6]

Given that the Harris campaign promised to be tough on immigration, that Biden kept up trump's work in deporting people and stopping huge numbers at the border, and that the republicans blocked bipartisan legislation to beef up border security and funding for border agents, I don't really know what the complaint is here. It genuinely feels like people are making huge assumptions what Biden, Harris, and the Democrat machine did vs what people think they did.

Exactly.

Today was the day I was told that if only immigration was addressed then the part of Germany - a place with single digit immigration mostly from Eastern Europe - that's most historically/culturally/politically predisposed to <checks notes> Prussian militarism and the mid-20th century moustachioed Austrian painter ... they will magically all become centre-ist liberal dads who at their most extreme vote for a Christian conservative party or the greens. No. They're still going to vote for the fucking Nazis, and especially so if they have anything at all they're unhappy about.

An extreme example and it's different from country to country (I'm less sure about this formula in some countries, France?). But it's definitely true in some countries that anything can happen with immigration numbers, and the politics will not change to reflect that. No one who voted Republican based on Trump's immigration rhetoric is ever voting Democrat. Trump's actual immigration record doesn't matter to them, he just says he's for them and not the black immigrants who eat dogs, and that's enough.

Who told you that? I think you are imagining things

One issue troubling voters was migration, according to pre-election surveys, with respondents in Thuringia and Saxony citing it as among their top three concerns along with crime and “social protection.” According to one survey for German public television, 81-percent of voters agreed with the statement: “We need a fundamentally different asylum and refugee policy so that fewer people come to us.”

As a side note, the only slightly useful US exit polls had immigration as people biggest concern in 11% of cases (4th overall) way behind things like the economy and democracy itself, etc. It's not nothing, but it doesn't seem to be the major factor.

[Tichtheid]

91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.

92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).

Do they kill them first and then pardon them, or pardon them and then kill them?

[Hal Jordan]

91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.

92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).

Do they kill them first and then pardon them, or pardon them and then kill them?

As long as they end up dead, MAGA don't care.

[Niegs]

The following is a compilation of specific things that Trump has proposed in his Project 47 platform in writing, on video and in interviews and rally speeches. Why the hell the Harris campaign thought arguing whether Kevin Roberts's wish list was Trump's agenda, rather than actually focusing on these things, just completely mystifies me.

Here they are:

BUDGET & TAXES:

1. No taxes on tips.

2. Interest on car loans will be tax deductible.

3. No taxes on Social Security payments.

4. No taxes on any overtime income.

5. Across the board income tax cut for every taxpayer.

6. Make previous Trump tax cuts permanent.

7. Cut the corporate tax rate.

8. No cuts in benefits or changes in Social Security retirement age.

9. The federal budget will be cut by 33%.

10. Tax credits for home caregivers who are family members.

11. Repeal the Impound Control Act of 1974, which will prohibits a president from withholding funding approved by Congress in their budget that he disagrees with.

12. Interest rates on credit cards will be capped at 10%.

Spoiler

Show

IMMIGRATION:

13. All migrants, including those with pending asylum claims, will be taken into custody and deported immediately by invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.

14. Birthright citizenship will be ended by executive order. All persons who were born in the US to migrant parents will have their citizenship revoked and will be deported immediately.

15. Border will be closed with no migrants entering the US by moving thousands of US troops from overseas to be stationed on the southern border.

16. Border wall across southern US and Mexico will be completed.

17. All releases into the US of asylum seekers will be ended and Remain in Mexico policy reinstated.

18. Increase criminal penalties for illegal entry.

19. Reinstitute travel ban.

GENERAL DOMESTIC POLICY:

20. Construct 10 new 'Freedom Cities' in the US which will be completely free from all government regulations of any kind.

21. No EV mandates or subsidies.

22. Create a Central Bank Digital Currency.

23. Homelessness will be criminalized and all homeless in the US will be arrested and given the choice of incarceration or admission into a new federal tent city for treatment.

24. Federal tent cities for arrested homeless - "Homeless Rehabilitation Centers' - will be fully staffed with doctors, psychiatrists and social workers.

25. Send astronauts to the moon.

26. Send astronauts to Mars.

27. Open federal lands to new home construction.

28. Seize control of the District of Columbia and have all city agencies run and controlled by the federal government.

29. Build new national monuments.

30. Create a federal task force to combat anti-Christian bias.

31. Provide housing for all 33,000 homeless veterans.

32. IVF will be fully covered with no out-of-pocket costs to parents.

33. Create job training and skills programs for all recovering drug addicts.

34. Provide federal funding for faith-based drug treatment centers.

35. Expand the Family & Medical Leave Act to require all employers to give time off for drug rehabilitation programs.

36. Create a White House Task Force called 'Salute 250,' which will organize one year of festivities across the US from Memorial Day 2025 to July 4, 2026.

37. Create the 'Great American State Fair' which will be held in Iowa each year with exhibits from all 50 states. (Promised right before the Iowa Caucus).

38. Create 'The Patriot Games' which will be an annual national competition for high school athletes in every sport similar to the Olympics.

39. Everyone over 18 shall be given the option to opt out of all content moderation on social media platforms.

40. Content moderation on social media platforms must not use AI.

41. Former employees of FBI, CIA, NSA, DNI, DHS and DOD shall not be permitted to take any job with a social media company for 7 years after leaving government service.

42. Have the US opt out of the Paris Climate Accords.

43. Repeal Biden's Administrations motor vehicle emissions standards.

44. The US government and agencies will only recognize people for the gender on their original birth certificate for all purposes.

45. All healthcare providers who perform gender reassignment surgeries are people under 18 will be permanently terminated from Medicare and Medicaid.

EDUCATION:

46. Abolish the Department of Education.

47. Parents of all public schools can vote to remove a principal at any time.

48. School principals will be elected by parents each year.

49. Seize endowments of universities who either have DEI programs, consider race in admissions or hiring, or teach CRT. Endowments will be seized by levying a fine in lawsuits brought by DOJ that is equal to the amount in the endowment

50. A portion of money seized from university endowments will be used to compensate people who have been discriminated against in admissions and hiring due to DEI or preferences. (Intended for White people and Asians)

51. Deport foreign students who are pro-Hamas or make anti-American statements on campus.

52. End tenure for teachers and professors.

53. Increase merit pay for teachers.

54. Universal, national school choice for all school systems in the country.

55. Bible study will be instituted in public schools.

56. School prayer will be instituted in public schools.

57. All student who assaults a teacher or another student will be permanently expelled from that school.

58. All schools receive additional funding to "harden" them against school shooters and invaders.

59. College tuition at all colleges and universities will be reduced.

60. Create 'The American Academy' which will be a University run by the federal government. Tuition will be free. It will be paid for by money seized from other Universities' endowments. Full curriculum will be online available to all Americans for free. Students will receive a fully credentialed bachelor's degree.

61. $10,000 per child tax credit for home schooling.

62. All high school and college accreditors shall be fired immediately with accreditation services replaced by a group appointed by the president.

63. Revoke federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs dedicated to combatting disinformation and misinformation online.

64. Teacher certification will be changed and governed by a new federal agency that will only grant certifications to teachers who "embrace patriotic values."

FOREIGN POLICY & NATIONAL DEFENSE:

65. Require the EU to reimburse the US for all aid provided to Ukraine from the time of Russia's invasion to present.

66. End Ukraine war within 24 hours of taking office.

67. End the conflict between Israel and Gaza within 24 hours.

68. End violence inside Lebanon.

69. Create an Iron Dome Missile Defense Shield that will protect the entire US.

70. Increase defense spending to highest levels in history.

71. China will prevent the export of all fentanyl precursors.

TRADE:

72. Across the board 10% tariff on all foreign imports.

73. Tariffs of 20-60% imposed on all goods imported from China.

74. Revoke China's Most Favored Nation Status for trade.

75. Stop importation of all EVs from China.

76. All companies with plants in China or importing parts manufactured in China will be banned from conducting any business with the US government. (Proposed when Musk was supporting Desantis).

77. Tariff placed on all imports of Ibuprofen, Hydrocortisone, Acetaminophen, and Penicillin until 100% of each drug sold in the US is manufactured in the US.

78. The Trump Reciprocal Trade Act will impose tariffs on all imports equal to tariffs imposed by a foreign country on US products.

79. Chinese companies will be forced to sell all US holdings in energy, tech, telecommunications, farmland, natural resources, and medical supplies.

80. Return all auto manufacturing jobs from US auto companies with plants in Mexico to the US by imposting huge tariffs on Mexico.

ENERGY POLICY:

81. Authorize new drilling for oil to increase production above current levels.

82. Lift ban on exports of natural gas to other countries.

83. Electricity and home energy bills will be reduced by 50%.

84. New nuclear power plants will be authorized and constructed.

85. Over 200 new power plants using coal and other fossil fuels will be constructed.

86. All electric grids will be modernized.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:

87. Pardon defendants convicted and arrested for crimes related to J6 and stolen classified documents.

88. Have the US Navy implement a naval blockade to prevent all fentanyl precursors from entering the US by sea.

89. Federal immunity for state and local police officers to prohibit civil rights and excessive force lawsuits being brought against them.

90. Death penalty for human trafficking offenses.

91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.

92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).

93. DOJ will investigate and prosecute local District Attorneys believed to have persecuted because of their religious believes, such as anti-abortion activists outside clinics.

Guessing a lot of people stopped reading here?

[TB63]

[Biffer]

The following is a compilation of specific things that Trump has proposed in his Project 47 platform in writing, on video and in interviews and rally speeches. Why the hell the Harris campaign thought arguing whether Kevin Roberts's wish list was Trump's agenda, rather than actually focusing on these things, just completely mystifies me.

Here they are:

BUDGET & TAXES:

1. No taxes on tips.

2. Interest on car loans will be tax deductible.

3. No taxes on Social Security payments.

4. No taxes on any overtime income.

5. Across the board income tax cut for every taxpayer.

6. Make previous Trump tax cuts permanent.

7. Cut the corporate tax rate.

8. No cuts in benefits or changes in Social Security retirement age.

9. The federal budget will be cut by 33%.

10. Tax credits for home caregivers who are family members.

11. Repeal the Impound Control Act of 1974, which will prohibits a president from withholding funding approved by Congress in their budget that he disagrees with.

12. Interest rates on credit cards will be capped at 10%.

Spoiler

Show

IMMIGRATION:

13. All migrants, including those with pending asylum claims, will be taken into custody and deported immediately by invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.

14. Birthright citizenship will be ended by executive order. All persons who were born in the US to migrant parents will have their citizenship revoked and will be deported immediately.

15. Border will be closed with no migrants entering the US by moving thousands of US troops from overseas to be stationed on the southern border.

16. Border wall across southern US and Mexico will be completed.

17. All releases into the US of asylum seekers will be ended and Remain in Mexico policy reinstated.

18. Increase criminal penalties for illegal entry.

19. Reinstitute travel ban.

GENERAL DOMESTIC POLICY:

20. Construct 10 new 'Freedom Cities' in the US which will be completely free from all government regulations of any kind.

21. No EV mandates or subsidies.

22. Create a Central Bank Digital Currency.

23. Homelessness will be criminalized and all homeless in the US will be arrested and given the choice of incarceration or admission into a new federal tent city for treatment.

24. Federal tent cities for arrested homeless - "Homeless Rehabilitation Centers' - will be fully staffed with doctors, psychiatrists and social workers.

25. Send astronauts to the moon.

26. Send astronauts to Mars.

27. Open federal lands to new home construction.

28. Seize control of the District of Columbia and have all city agencies run and controlled by the federal government.

29. Build new national monuments.

30. Create a federal task force to combat anti-Christian bias.

31. Provide housing for all 33,000 homeless veterans.

32. IVF will be fully covered with no out-of-pocket costs to parents.

33. Create job training and skills programs for all recovering drug addicts.

34. Provide federal funding for faith-based drug treatment centers.

35. Expand the Family & Medical Leave Act to require all employers to give time off for drug rehabilitation programs.

36. Create a White House Task Force called 'Salute 250,' which will organize one year of festivities across the US from Memorial Day 2025 to July 4, 2026.

37. Create the 'Great American State Fair' which will be held in Iowa each year with exhibits from all 50 states. (Promised right before the Iowa Caucus).

38. Create 'The Patriot Games' which will be an annual national competition for high school athletes in every sport similar to the Olympics.

39. Everyone over 18 shall be given the option to opt out of all content moderation on social media platforms.

40. Content moderation on social media platforms must not use AI.

41. Former employees of FBI, CIA, NSA, DNI, DHS and DOD shall not be permitted to take any job with a social media company for 7 years after leaving government service.

42. Have the US opt out of the Paris Climate Accords.

43. Repeal Biden's Administrations motor vehicle emissions standards.

44. The US government and agencies will only recognize people for the gender on their original birth certificate for all purposes.

45. All healthcare providers who perform gender reassignment surgeries are people under 18 will be permanently terminated from Medicare and Medicaid.

EDUCATION:

46. Abolish the Department of Education.

47. Parents of all public schools can vote to remove a principal at any time.

48. School principals will be elected by parents each year.

49. Seize endowments of universities who either have DEI programs, consider race in admissions or hiring, or teach CRT. Endowments will be seized by levying a fine in lawsuits brought by DOJ that is equal to the amount in the endowment

50. A portion of money seized from university endowments will be used to compensate people who have been discriminated against in admissions and hiring due to DEI or preferences. (Intended for White people and Asians)

51. Deport foreign students who are pro-Hamas or make anti-American statements on campus.

52. End tenure for teachers and professors.

53. Increase merit pay for teachers.

54. Universal, national school choice for all school systems in the country.

55. Bible study will be instituted in public schools.

56. School prayer will be instituted in public schools.

57. All student who assaults a teacher or another student will be permanently expelled from that school.

58. All schools receive additional funding to "harden" them against school shooters and invaders.

59. College tuition at all colleges and universities will be reduced.

60. Create 'The American Academy' which will be a University run by the federal government. Tuition will be free. It will be paid for by money seized from other Universities' endowments. Full curriculum will be online available to all Americans for free. Students will receive a fully credentialed bachelor's degree.

61. $10,000 per child tax credit for home schooling.

62. All high school and college accreditors shall be fired immediately with accreditation services replaced by a group appointed by the president.

63. Revoke federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs dedicated to combatting disinformation and misinformation online.

64. Teacher certification will be changed and governed by a new federal agency that will only grant certifications to teachers who "embrace patriotic values."

FOREIGN POLICY & NATIONAL DEFENSE:

65. Require the EU to reimburse the US for all aid provided to Ukraine from the time of Russia's invasion to present.

66. End Ukraine war within 24 hours of taking office.

67. End the conflict between Israel and Gaza within 24 hours.

68. End violence inside Lebanon.

69. Create an Iron Dome Missile Defense Shield that will protect the entire US.

70. Increase defense spending to highest levels in history.

71. China will prevent the export of all fentanyl precursors.

TRADE:

72. Across the board 10% tariff on all foreign imports.

73. Tariffs of 20-60% imposed on all goods imported from China.

74. Revoke China's Most Favored Nation Status for trade.

75. Stop importation of all EVs from China.

76. All companies with plants in China or importing parts manufactured in China will be banned from conducting any business with the US government. (Proposed when Musk was supporting Desantis).

77. Tariff placed on all imports of Ibuprofen, Hydrocortisone, Acetaminophen, and Penicillin until 100% of each drug sold in the US is manufactured in the US.

78. The Trump Reciprocal Trade Act will impose tariffs on all imports equal to tariffs imposed by a foreign country on US products.

79. Chinese companies will be forced to sell all US holdings in energy, tech, telecommunications, farmland, natural resources, and medical supplies.

80. Return all auto manufacturing jobs from US auto companies with plants in Mexico to the US by imposting huge tariffs on Mexico.

ENERGY POLICY:

81. Authorize new drilling for oil to increase production above current levels.

82. Lift ban on exports of natural gas to other countries.

83. Electricity and home energy bills will be reduced by 50%.

84. New nuclear power plants will be authorized and constructed.

85. Over 200 new power plants using coal and other fossil fuels will be constructed.

86. All electric grids will be modernized.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:

87. Pardon defendants convicted and arrested for crimes related to J6 and stolen classified documents.

88. Have the US Navy implement a naval blockade to prevent all fentanyl precursors from entering the US by sea.

89. Federal immunity for state and local police officers to prohibit civil rights and excessive force lawsuits being brought against them.

90. Death penalty for human trafficking offenses.

91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.

92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).

93. DOJ will investigate and prosecute local District Attorneys believed to have persecuted because of their religious believes, such as anti-abortion activists outside clinics.

Guessing a lot of people stopped reading here?

I read all of it. A few things are explicitly fascist. A substantial number are batshit. And there is no way it's coherent (being generous). He has many, many promises of reduced tax and reduced government spend, alongside many commitments to increased and additional government spending.

But none of it is important because his supporters don't actually care

1. If it's realistic
2. If it's achievable
3. If he actually does it or not

[sockwithaticket]

Better yet, failure to deliver can be blamed on the deep state and establishment elites (which a party that regularly makes up around half of the elected members in both houses and their billionaire backers are totally no part of, no sire) who want the American people, but especially Republican voters, to keep suffering.