Kicking off in Israel

[_Os_]

Amsterdam's liberal left Mayor described the violence as “an eruption of antisemitism that we had hoped never again to see in Amsterdam" but what would she know.

The latest from Amsterdam politics, from some oke that looks like Jan van Riebeeck. Smart move to describe what actually happened, foreigners in Israel cannot vote for him. But what would he know.

[_Os_]

Sky News reporting on this has been quite good. But the narrative is now that football hooligan associated violence is actually a literal pogrom or even comparable to the holocaust (don't attack me, I'm not the one saying this). Sky News apparently removed this video, not sure why looks accurate enough on the available info. I await the Sky News report that in fact Israel doesn't have a racist violent hooligan problem, there were no Israeli hooligan provocations, and the apology to Israel for any criticism.

[Calculon]

Amsterdam's liberal left Mayor described the violence as “an eruption of antisemitism that we had hoped never again to see in Amsterdam" but what would she know.

The latest from Amsterdam politics, from some oke that looks like Jan van Riebeeck. Smart move to describe what actually happened, foreigners in Israel cannot vote for him. But what would he know.

This "oke" started his own political party De Vonk,
with the party's moto being "... a free palastine", so he might be a slightly biased source. Same as your other source claiming it was mossad agents who went on a "racist rampage" through Amsterdam, or even the third guy you linked, the Corbyn fan claiming it's nothing to do with them being Jews


Funniest thing about his whole
incident is Ajax's F-Side threatening the
pro Palestinian demonstrators

[_Os_]

Amsterdam's liberal left Mayor described the violence as “an eruption of antisemitism that we had hoped never again to see in Amsterdam" but what would she know.

The latest from Amsterdam politics, from some oke that looks like Jan van Riebeeck. Smart move to describe what actually happened, foreigners in Israel cannot vote for him. But what would he know.

This "oke" started his own political party De Vonk,
with the party's moto being "... a free palastine", so he might be a slightly biased source.

The name De Vonk has a storied history in the Netherlands, we can safely assume Jan van Riebeeck is an anti-Nazi. Sign me up for that bias chief.

Same as your other source claiming it was mossad agents who went on a "racist rampage" through Amsterdam, or even the third guy you linked, the Corbyn fan claiming it's nothing to do with them being Jews

No clue where you're getting all that from. I've got Jan van Riebeeck and Sky News as my sources.

Here's your definitely not racist violent hooligans beating a guy in Athens for being Arab:

[_Os_]

Pretty obvious Israeli hooligans have now made a name for themselves in Europe. Much like the Turks did some time ago.

Every left wing hooligan group will be gunning for them, far right hooligans (other than those which love Israel), any that have any Muslim or non-white following. And those which just love fighting. I suspect you're going to have a lot of violence to defend, Calculator.

They seem like a lovely bunch:

[_Os_]

Funniest thing about his whole
incident is Ajax's F-Side threatening the
pro Palestinian demonstrators

Missed this.

The "funniest thing"? It's a pogrom and reminiscent of the holocaust remember, the "funniest thing"?

Just like the Israeli hooligans/fans who got home and celebrated in the airport like they had won the match and fight, flags and a festive atmosphere, singing their club song about killing Palestinian children. Odd behaviour for pogrom survivors.

[Uncle fester]

Excavators and bulldozers working on demolishing UNIFIL property now.
https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/202 ... l-lebanon/

[_Os_]

Nederlands polisieman, confirms what Oom Jan said and the deleted ( ) Sky News report.

Israeli hooligans: Ripped Palestine flags from buildings, burned Palestine flags, attacked a taxi driver and destroyed/damaged the taxi. There's videos of all of this, but it's now official.

[_Os_]

Nederlands mannetjie >>>>> entire Western media

He films Israeli hooligans tooling up with iron bars and wooden pallet planks, masking up, throwing stones, getting kettled, going crazy when they see Palestinian flags. He films Israeli hooligans make one rush at opponents but his commentary indicates there were other rushes. His commentary also states there were attacks in the days leading up to the match on buildings with Palestinian flags, as the polisieman said.

Israeli hooligans tell him to stop filming “for his own good”, he completely ignores them. He gets threats from them at other times for filming (middle finger etc). The mannetjie has balls, perhaps oblivious to everything he filmed going against the entire official narrative, but perhaps not he seems switched on.

[_Os_]

Always amusing how quickly the Israel narrative collapses.

Anyone with an internet connection could see they rocked up in Amsterdam treated ethnic Arabs like they were still manning a West Bank checkpoint and got something back in return they weren't expecting. If they had been hooligans from anywhere else that's more or less how it would've been reported too. English hooligans always end up carrying the entire blame for a lot less than what happened here.

[Calculon]

Israeli narrative? It's the narrative in the Netherlands, France, Germany, america, canade etc because that's what
actually happened. It's the reason each of these countries put out statements condeminng what happened
as violent antisemitic attacks. It's not a Zionist
conspiracy that is now falling apart and you
posting tweets from every Palestine obsessed Corbyn/Owen Jones sycophant on twitter doesn't make it so

What did the actual Amsterdam poiice statement say?
A Palestinian flag was ripped down and one taxi vandalized
. This is wrong but it still doesn't justify morracocan dutch immigrants organizing a jew hunt on social media and then going around Amsterdam demanding to see people's ID so they can kick the shit out of the Jews..

nothing justifies that, not the scuim singing schools out in gaza at the airport in tel Aviv , or whatever happened in Athens,, or even the tragedy and seemingly
endless horror of what is happening Gaza.

[Guy Smiley]

What did the actual Amsterdam poiice statement say?

just a couple of posts up above this, boet... just before you repeated the Israeli narrative

[epwc]

it still doesn't justify morracocan dutch immigrants organizing a jew hunt on social media and then going around Amsterdam demanding to see people's ID so they can kick the shit out of the Jews..

Thanks for putting that in context, the genocide of Palestinians pales into insignificance once you take the time to think about it.

[Tichtheid]

Hrmm, yes, was it their “jewishness” that made them the subject of attacks? Or was it their actions?

Saying it was antisemitic because they were jewish is like saying it was misandrist because they were men.

[_Os_]

Israeli narrative? It's the narrative in the Netherlands, France, Germany, america, canade etc because that's what
actually happened. It's the reason each of these countries put out statements condeminng what happened
as violent antisemitic attacks. It's not a Zionist
conspiracy that is now falling apart and you
posting tweets from every Palestine obsessed Corbyn/Owen Jones sycophant on twitter doesn't make it so

I posted a Sky News video which was deleted, they then reedited it reuploaded it then redeleted (yes, really), then reedited it and reuploaded it much of it containing political statements (that you're impressed by) not actual reporting. It's difficult to fit the reality of this into the editorial line they want to push, you seem to think "narrative" is a conspiracy, it's how all reporting works and why editors exist.

You then became obsessed with who re-uploaded the video, someone I don't know and don't care about, the video now has 2m views ffs.

What did the actual Amsterdam poiice statement say?

I posted what they said. They've confirmed the Israelis were acting like hooligans in the lead up, they were going after Palestinians flags and attacking ethnic Arab taxi drivers.

A Palestinian flag was ripped down and one taxi vandalized
. This is wrong but it still doesn't justify morracocan dutch immigrants organizing a jew hunt on social media and then going around Amsterdam demanding to see people's ID so they can kick the shit out of the Jews..

nothing justifies that, not the scuim singing schools out in gaza at the airport in tel Aviv , or whatever happened in Athens,, or even the tragedy and seemingly
endless horror of what is happening Gaza.

Are you familiar with how football hooliganism works? Lots of violence, lots of racism. Sometimes political too. If you enter that world and go on an away day with a side which has a violent racist hooligan following, that then indeed does violent racist things, it is all on you. Support another team.

Once a team has a reputation everyone goes for them, are we going to have to go through this every time?

morracocan dutch immigrants

They're Dutch. I take it because you're white you're now not a South African but a European South African immigrant?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

it still doesn't justify morracocan dutch immigrants organizing a jew hunt on social media and then going around Amsterdam demanding to see people's ID so they can kick the shit out of the Jews..

Thanks for putting that in context, the genocide of Palestinians pales into insignificance once you take the time to think about it.

It's quite some context too, essentially saying one group of people aren't justified acting badly towards another, but then utterly ignoring such concern when it comes to Israel murdering children for the fun of it

[_Os_]

This is the statement from one Amsterdam Jewish group, Ajax is known for its Jewish support (somewhat like Tottenham). A quick Google indicates they're taken seriously usually (ignored this time though, wonder why).

The city of Amsterdam deserves better.

Erev Rav strongly condemns the Amsterdam police’s handling of the recent events involving football fans over two consecutive nights in the city.

We are deeply concerned that instead of restraining groups who caused disturbances in the city – including tearing down Palestinian flags from private residences and engaging in racist chanting – the police allowed the situation to escalate into widespread street violence.

It is troubling that arrests were selective, primarily targetting local Moroccan youth who confronted these groups, while Maccabi fans initiated provocations faced no consequences.

The media portrayal of these events as an unprovoked antisemitic attack on peaceful football supporters does not reflect the full context.

The visiting fans engaged in provocative behavior, destroying private property, intimidating passerby’s, carrying flares, gathering in the city center, and directing inflammatory racist and violent chants at locals. Many were recently discharged soldiers, active in the genocide in Gaza. Their conduct at the football match itself was also more than controversial, as they refused to observe the minute silence for Valencia flood victims.

One cannot engage in violent and disruptive actions and then cry “antisemitism” to avoid accountability. Our identities do not exist to absolve our actions.

We find this weaponization of Jewish safety incredibly alarming.

We believe that more appropriate police intervention against the initial disturbances by the Maccabi football fans combined with a clear stance from the city, mobilizing to disperse gatherings where violent racist, Islamophobic and homophobic things were being shouted (in the public space) could have prevented the subsequent escalation of violence.

[Tichtheid]

One cannot engage in violent and disruptive actions and then cry “antisemitism” to avoid accountability.

That's worth repeating

[_Os_]

Calculator, I'll leave this here for you boet. I trust you can see the funny side ...

[average joe]

In the last few days on this thread, I've learned that football supporters are all a bunch of wit kants.

[Calculon]

What did the actual Amsterdam poiice statement say?

just a couple of posts up above this, boet... just before you repeated the Israeli narrative

no, i just listenening to it, and since i understand dutch, its pretty much what i said, a flagged ripped of, another burned and the taxi incident

[Calculon]

Hrmm, yes, was it their “jewishness” that made them the subject of attacks? Or was it their actions?

Saying it was antisemitic because they were jewish is like saying it was misandrist because they were men.

if they're posting on social media organising a "jew hunt" it might, just might be something to do with them being jewish

[Calculon]

it still doesn't justify morracocan dutch immigrants organizing a jew hunt on social media and then going around Amsterdam demanding to see people's ID so they can kick the shit out of the Jews..

Thanks for putting that in context, the genocide of Palestinians pales into insignificance once you take the time to think about it.

It's quite some context too, essentially saying one group of people aren't justified acting badly towards another, but then utterly ignoring such concern when it comes to Israel murdering children for the fun of it

oh ffs

[petej]

Football hooligans behaving like football hooligans. Simple response is very heavy police force and they are escorted everywhere. Held behind after the match etc...

[Calculon]

This is the statement from one Amsterdam Jewish group, Ajax is known for its Jewish support (somewhat like Tottenham). A quick Google indicates they're taken seriously usually (ignored this time though, wonder why).

The city of Amsterdam deserves better.

Erev Rav strongly condemns the Amsterdam police’s handling of the recent events involving football fans over two consecutive nights in the city.

We are deeply concerned that instead of restraining groups who caused disturbances in the city – including tearing down Palestinian flags from private residences and engaging in racist chanting – the police allowed the situation to escalate into widespread street violence.

It is troubling that arrests were selective, primarily targetting local Moroccan youth who confronted these groups, while Maccabi fans initiated provocations faced no consequences.

The media portrayal of these events as an unprovoked antisemitic attack on peaceful football supporters does not reflect the full context.

The visiting fans engaged in provocative behavior, destroying private property, intimidating passerby’s, carrying flares, gathering in the city center, and directing inflammatory racist and violent chants at locals. Many were recently discharged soldiers, active in the genocide in Gaza. Their conduct at the football match itself was also more than controversial, as they refused to observe the minute silence for Valencia flood victims.

One cannot engage in violent and disruptive actions and then cry “antisemitism” to avoid accountability. Our identities do not exist to absolve our actions.

We find this weaponization of Jewish safety incredibly alarming.

We believe that more appropriate police intervention against the initial disturbances by the Maccabi football fans combined with a clear stance from the city, mobilizing to disperse gatherings where violent racist, Islamophobic and homophobic things were being shouted (in the public space) could have prevented the subsequent escalation of violence.

a self proclaimed "anti zionist" organisation, yes well done. I dont think you've posted Hamas's statement on this incident, though i might have missed it in all the links you've posted. you're becoming as bad than a MAGAt with all this "can't trust the MSM" and supporting the russian line in Ukraine.

[Calculon]

Calculator, I'll leave this here for you boet. I trust you can see the funny side ...

yeah, he's a cunt, and an israeli. and also another pro russian twitter acccount i can block

[Calculon]

They're Dutch. I take it because you're white you're now not a South African but a European South African immigrant?

they're 1st and second generation Dutch-Moroccans, the least intergrated minority in the netherlands.

well my family dates back something like 15 generations and they are not all european and of course this was many centuries before there was a south africa, plus i dont even live in SA, so maybe not

[_Os_]

They're Dutch. I take it because you're white you're now not a South African but a European South African immigrant?

they're 1st and second generation Dutch-Moroccans, the least intergrated minority in the netherlands.

well my family dates back something like 15 generations and they are not all european and of course this was many centuries before there was a south africa, plus i dont even live in SA, so maybe not

They're not immigrants, they're from the Netherlands. very ironic for a white South African to talk about integration and who doesn't belong to a place because of their ethnic background, and so on.

Funny how Zionists have ended up saying "but they're Muslim foreigners" as some sort of defence. Just makes it all look worse.

[_Os_]

a self proclaimed "anti zionist" organisation, yes well done. I dont think you've posted Hamas's statement on this incident, though i might have missed it in all the links you've posted. you're becoming as bad than a MAGAt with all this "can't trust the MSM" and supporting the russian line in Ukraine.

You're the one who talked about Jews, not Israelis. So I posted the statement of a Jewish organisation in Amsterdam. Why do you think some Jews are anti-Zionist?

If Amsterdam is undergoing a pogrom, why isn't the Jewish community in Amsterdam being attacked? If it's a pogrom against Jews, why did it occur after a football match and isn't still continuing?

[_Os_]

you're becoming as bad than a MAGAt with all this "can't trust the MSM"

As I've already explained, all media has something called an editor and something called an editorial line. You cannot read a right wing newspaper and expect to find socialist opinions. Anyone who has been following this conflict, knows a lot of Western coverage isn't entirely truthful. You see one thing in the media and another thing on the internet. The disconnect is extreme.

Lets take the Sky News segment which went through 3 versions ...



Both cuts aren't lies. The first says they're Israeli Maccabi hooligans, which they were. The second that they're a mob dressed in black, which they were (but omits they're Maccabi hooligans). But if you play the video on a large screen you can see some are in blue and yellow (Maccabi colours), it's the same incident as filmed by Bender (who said they were Maccabi fans, and filmed them tooling up). There's a watermark credit of who took the video, this is what she had to say about the reporting of the video she took:

Message to news outlets:

Today I received an apology from Tagesschau for abusing my footage of the incident which took place after the soccer game in Amsterdam between Ajax and M. Tel Aviv. I refer also to the footage of reporter @OmeBender who covered that same fight with more details. @BILD @CNN @BBCWorld @Guardian @nytimes

I would like you to do the same as Tagesschau. An apology, a removal of my footage and the truth. A few minutes of your precious time. Write down: Maccabi supporters attacked Amsterdam citizens in front of Central Station after the game. Journalism is about finding truth. Not about making money on a twist of the script. It’s time to show some respect to reality. That’s your job.

(dear folks on X: would you be so kind to post all links to framings under this post so I can address more News Outlets?)

Israeli hooligans know it's them too, they celebrate it and make compilation vids out of all the violence they were involved. Here is one of their videos (don't freak out chief, the account is run by an anti-Zionist Jew):




... So you tell me, accurate reporting on this one, or not really?

[Tichtheid]

Hrmm, yes, was it their “jewishness” that made them the subject of attacks? Or was it their actions?

Saying it was antisemitic because they were jewish is like saying it was misandrist because they were men.

if they're posting on social media organising a "jew hunt" it might, just might be something to do with them being jewish

I've spent around 20 minutes watching videos and reading articles, I can see two posts printed in a Telegraph article, one refers to "Jew Hunt" another refers to "Cancer Jews". Both of those posts are antisemitic.

I'd repeat a question asked of you by, I think, Os. Have you any idea what goes on at football grounds across Europe every weekend and at midweek games? It was vile sectarianism at Scottish games that swore me off football, my sporting first love.

Dutch fans have a reputation for violence, I don't know if it's better or worse now than it was, but across Europe clubs have their "Ultras" and "Headhunters" and other lovely sections of their fan bases. It used to be that thugs from clubs would organise a match up between rival fans, again I don't know if they still do this, but with the messaging apps it would be a lot easier to do it now.

Football is still rife with bigotry, there are still monkey chants at players, homophobic abuse, yes antisemitic abuse, any excuse really. It's better than it used to be, but it can still be a shit culture around the game.

[Calculon]

... So you tell me, accurate reporting on this one, or not really?

i think i'de put more credance on the version from the MSM, the mayor of amsterdam and the Amsterdam police chief than "B.M@ireallyhateyou" on twitter who you claim to be jewish, and is now posting that there is a pogram against pro palistinian supporters in amsterdam

but thanks, another twat on twitter blocked

[JM2K6]

I hope you're getting paid for this because if you're doing it for free you're really missing a trick

[Calculon]

Hrmm, yes, was it their “jewishness” that made them the subject of attacks? Or was it their actions?

Saying it was antisemitic because they were jewish is like saying it was misandrist because they were men.

if they're posting on social media organising a "jew hunt" it might, just might be something to do with them being jewish

I've spent around 20 minutes watching videos and reading articles, I can see two posts printed in a Telegraph article, one refers to "Jew Hunt" another refers to "Cancer Jews". Both of those posts are antisemitic.

I'd repeat a question asked of you by, I think, Os. Have you any idea what goes on at football grounds across Europe every weekend and at midweek games? It was vile sectarianism at Scottish games that swore me off football, my sporting first love.

Dutch fans have a reputation for violence, I don't know if it's better or worse now than it was, but across Europe clubs have their "Ultras" and "Headhunters" and other lovely sections of their fan bases. It used to be that thugs from clubs would organise a match up between rival fans, again I don't know if they still do this, but with the messaging apps it would be a lot easier to do it now.

Football is still rife with bigotry, there are still monkey chants at players, homophobic abuse, yes antisemitic abuse, any excuse really. It's better than it used to be, but it can still be a shit culture around the game.

20 mintues wasted, Ajax's F-Side actually opposed the pro palistinian supporters and were not involved in the violence

[robmatic]

Hrmm, yes, was it their “jewishness” that made them the subject of attacks? Or was it their actions?

Saying it was antisemitic because they were jewish is like saying it was misandrist because they were men.

if they're posting on social media organising a "jew hunt" it might, just might be something to do with them being jewish

I've spent around 20 minutes watching videos and reading articles, I can see two posts printed in a Telegraph article, one refers to "Jew Hunt" another refers to "Cancer Jews". Both of those posts are antisemitic.

I'd repeat a question asked of you by, I think, Os. Have you any idea what goes on at football grounds across Europe every weekend and at midweek games? It was vile sectarianism at Scottish games that swore me off football, my sporting first love.

Dutch fans have a reputation for violence, I don't know if it's better or worse now than it was, but across Europe clubs have their "Ultras" and "Headhunters" and other lovely sections of their fan bases. It used to be that thugs from clubs would organise a match up between rival fans, again I don't know if they still do this, but with the messaging apps it would be a lot easier to do it now.

Football is still rife with bigotry, there are still monkey chants at players, homophobic abuse, yes antisemitic abuse, any excuse really. It's better than it used to be, but it can still be a shit culture around the game.

Given you have experience of football and its arseholes I don't know why you are denying the antisemitic aspect upthread. Yes, hooligans will latch onto any excuse but the bigotry is real and it tends not to be just constrained to the football. In Scotland, it seems like the Old Firm rivalry is sustaining some really archaic bigotries whose time should have passed decades ago.

[Calculon]

I hope you're getting paid for this because if you're doing it for free you're really missing a trick

lol, you're such a bitch

[_Os_]

20 mintues wasted, Ajax's F-Side actually opposed the pro palistinian supporters and were not involved in the violence

So is this a pogrom or football violence? They're not the same thing.

Ajax ultras are far right, they support Israel (like the far right sometimes does, guess why? Any thoughts on why Tommy Ten Names and friends are fans?). They have form for attacking pro-Palestine demonstrators, here is one of them attacking pro-Palestine demonstrators back in May wearing a Maccabi/Israeli flag masks, from your favourite Twitter account:

[_Os_]

... So you tell me, accurate reporting on this one, or not really?

i think i'de put more credance on the version from the MSM, the mayor of amsterdam and the Amsterdam police chief than "B.M@ireallyhateyou" on twitter who you claim to be jewish, and is now posting that there is a pogram against pro palistinian supporters in amsterdam

but thanks, another twat on twitter blocked

The police confirmed that there was damage to property and an attack on a taxi driver, in the days before the match. You ignored this.

The comments of those who filmed a lot of that footage can be found on this thread. They say what they witnessed was Maccabi hooligans attacking Amsterdam citizens. This too you ignored.

Of course Israeli hooligans celebrate the violence they were involved in. They're fucking hooligans.

[Calculon]

I heard the police statement, flag ripped down, burned, and taxi destroyed. Not sure it's actually that relevant to a "jew hunt" being organized by Moroccan dutch before these things even happened

[_Os_]

I heard the police statement, flag ripped down, burned, and taxi destroyed. Not sure it's actually that relevant to a "jew hunt" being organized by Moroccan dutch before these things even happened

The local residents had two days of it before the match. They then organised themselves to fight after the match. That is the timeline.

Not sure you know how any of this works, but it's often not spontaneous as Tichtheid has pointed out, it's organised group violence. Even a kid can see that, Bender pointed out in his commentary that there were leaders in the Maccabi hooligan group he saw. It's not just random violence between random people.

As you've pointed out the Dutch who decided to fight were checking passports after the match. There's been no reports of them going to synagogues or the homes of Amsterdam Jews. They have not continued into the days after the match.

We can call this a pogrom and like something from the holocaust if you like. An odd one, where you also think Ajax thugs attacking pro-Palestinian supporters is funny, but no matter. As I've made clear I don't think it was that, but it's also true if those terms are overused people like me will not pay any price at all, so it's easy for someone like me to just say whatever to avoid any hassle.