Bledisloe II: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Sunday 18th Oct

[Carter's Choice]

WHEN:

Sunday 18th October

KICK OFF:

Auckland: 4pm
Sydney: 2pm
Brisbane: 1pm

WHERE:

Auckland, New Zealand


VENUE:

Eden Park, Auckland


MATCH OFFICIALS:

REFEREE: Angus Gardner (RA)
ASSISTANT REFEREE 1: Ben O'Keeffe (NZR)
ASSISTANT REFEREE 2: Paul Williams (NZR)
TMO: Mike Fraser (NZR)

TEAMS:



1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)



1. James Slipper (97 Tests)
2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa (4 Tests)
3. Taniela Tupou (20 Tests)
4. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (22 Tests)
5. Matt Philip (4 Tests)
6. Ned Hanigan (20 Tests)
7. Michael Hooper (c) (100 Tests)
8. Harry Wilson (1 Test)

9. Nic White (32 Tests)
10. James O’Connor (53 Tests)
11. Marika Koroibete (29 Tests)
12. Matt To’omua (53 Tests)
13. Hunter Paisami (1 Test)
14. Filipo Daugunu (1 Test)
15. Tom Banks (7 Tests)

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese (10 Tests)
17. Scott Sio (64 Tests)
18. Allan Alaalatoa (36 Tests)
19. Rob Simmons (101 Tests)
20. Liam Wright (2 Tests)
21. Jake Gordon (2 Tests)
22. Jordan Petaia (3 Tests)
23. Reece Hodge (40 Tests)

[Carter's Choice]

After a draw in match 1, this fixture becomes extremely important. The Wallabies outplayed the All Blacks in Wellington, and Ian Foster's players will be desperate to make amends at the spiritual home of NZ Rugby - Eden Park. I expect significant backlash from the NZ Rugby public and media this week, and plenty of discussion about selection and tactics. Ian Foster demanded the Head Coach job, now he must endure the pressure that comes with it.

[Ymx]

I thought Smithy was pretty kind to him is post match interview.

He needs a savage presser to kick him out of being laid back about a more or less defeat.

[Monkey Magic]

Will be a good game with both sides likely to get better.

Feel that if the all blacks snuck the win in wellington they'd be facing a pretty brutal revenge backlash from the wallabies.

As it is Australia know they let that game slip and the all blacks had some realities hit home. In particular in a test match you have to be 100% firing and physical. Short moments of brilliance won't win you every game if you are only getting 30% of the ball and doing bugger all with it

[Carter's Choice]

I have no doubt that Ian Foster had planned to make so changes to the XXIII for Auckland.

Now he needs to rethink these changes. Because 'rotation' is one thing when you're winning, but when you aren't winning tests it's called dropping players. Some of whom may never return to the team.

If Ian Foster genuinely thinks that this was his best team, then he shouldn't make any changes to the XXIII aside from injuries. So than means BB might return, and that's it. He needs to give players another opportunity to shine, and then have the courage to drop them (not rotate them) if they still don't perform.

[FujiKiwi]

We’d all agree that Rieko should be dropped, though, right?

[Carter's Choice]

We’d all agree that Rieko should be dropped, though, right?

He was utterly terrible, and cost us a victory because he wanted to look cool scoring a try. But if Ian Foster genuinely think that Ioane is the best centre in NZ, and thinks he'll be our 13 at the 2023 RWC, then I think Foster needs to stick with him.

[Not_Couch]

I really don't have any hope for this new administration.

All Blacks can still win, and I still won't respect them for it.

[Gumboot]

We’d all agree that Rieko should be dropped, though, right?

Probably in a minority of one here, but I think he should be given another chance.

[Wild Beef]

Rieko should get another chance but it doesn’t have to be this weekend.

Mo’unga or BB at ten, I don’t mind which.

JB at 15 and definitely kicking if BB is ten

Reece or Clark on the wing (with Bridge)

Jordan on the bench

I liked the forward pack and would probably stick with it. When is ScoBarr back? We need more Barretts.

[Carter's Choice]

Rieko should get another chance but it doesn’t have to be this weekend.

Mo’unga or BB at ten, I don’t mind which.

JB at 15 and definitely kicking if BB is ten

Reece or Clark on the wing (with Bridge)

Jordan on the bench

I liked the forward pack and would probably stick with it. When is ScoBarr back? We need more Barretts.

With regards Reiko, there wasn't a Wallaby player within tackling distance of him. Why he chose to opt for the risky one handed put down is beyond me. He was trying to be cool, trying to look good and it cost us a minimum of 5 points in a game that we drew.

With regards to who starts at 10, I hope Foster is prepared to invest some time into who he thinks will be our no.10 at the 2023 RWC. If he think that player is Mo'unga than he should stick with him. If he think it's Barrett than he should select him and leave him at 10 for the next four years. If Foster is going to continue to chop and change then we are destined for 4 years of mediocrity.

[Wild Beef]

I wouldn’t drop reiko for that incident alone. It’s the rest of his game that make his grip on the 13 jersey as weak at best.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I wouldn’t drop reiko for that incident alone. It’s the rest of his game that make his grip on the 13 jersey as weak at best.

His positioning for the Koroibete try was genuinely scary. He was standing about where you would expect your openside flanker to be, for fuck's sake. Jordie was in no man's land trying to atone for Ioane's howler and McKenzie did well to get as close as he did.

[Wild Beef]

Yeah Jordie ain’t quick and the moment he was trying to cover multiple backs running at pace we were in deep trouble.

[mrbrownstone]

I'm not convinced we should select Ioane ever again, let alone this week. It has been clear for a while that he's a bit of a dick, and it's finally come back to haunt us. Score that + the try after half time and it's probably 20-3, and I'm not convinced the Wallabies come back from that. Will we ever learn not to select outside backs as centres?

Elsewhere I guess we have to accept this was always a possibility. The first test of a new year - let alone a new regime - is always a scrappy affair. We came in with a new back 3, a new centre pairing, and a halves pairing that has only started 6 tests together. Usually, we're good enough to get away with is because the opposition is weak (i.e. warm up games against Tonga) or because we're playing tired, half strength NH teams. Up against a motivated Wallabies with similar prep times this had to be a possibility. If we come out and blitz them this week I'm willing to write it off. Unfortunately, I'm not confident that happens under Foster.

In terms of team selection, I'm not sure there's a lot to be done. Our tight five depth is relatively shallow at the moment, not helped missing our best lock to sabbatical, so there's little to be done there. I thought the loose trio was pretty good and deserves more time.

In the backs, ALB must come in. I also thought Jordie's lack of pace was exposed, and with his average goal kicking and the fact we didn't even make use of his massive boot for clearances or height for bombs, he was a bit pointless. I'd select the following backline:

9. Smith
10. Mo'unga
11. Bridge
12. ALB
13. Goodhue
14. Jordan
15. B Barrett

21. TJP
22. J Barrett
23. Laumape (if fit, otherwise Clarke/Reece)

Midfielders in their natural positions, and wingers with actual pace.

[FujiKiwi]

We’d all agree that Rieko should be dropped, though, right?

Probably in a minority of one here, but I think he should be given another chance.

I was being a bit facetious. I thought he had one or two bungling moments but disagree that he was "utterly useless" as AC suggests. He looked dangerous at times, if he'd just use a bit more common sense.

I still much prefer Goodhue at 12, ALB at 13 but could see Rieko in some role as long term back up.

[Wild Beef]

When exactly was Jordies pace exposed? I know he’s slow and I didn’t see the whole game but he seemed to hold up ok?

Genuine question.

[FujiKiwi]

When exactly was Jordies pace exposed? I know he’s slow and I didn’t see the whole game but he seemed to hold up ok?

Genuine question.

If you watch his try, he is indeed slow. If he's twenty metres further out, he gets run down. It will eventually happen. Whether or not that's worth it, given his undoubted qualities in other areas, is a matter for debate.

[Maniototo Man]

I wouldn’t drop reiko for that incident alone. It’s the rest of his game that make his grip on the 13 jersey as weak at best.

His positioning for the Koroibete try was genuinely scary. He was standing about where you would expect your openside flanker to be, for fuck's sake. Jordie was in no man's land trying to atone for Ioane's howler and McKenzie did well to get as close as he did.

Seemed to me the Wallabies had bunched up deliberately, drawing him in.

It reminded me of the Wallaby back formations of the 1980s when they bunched up in the midfield and gave themselves a lot of space to manipulate on the outside. There are some good examples in the first few clips shown here. Of course the defensive systems then were not what they are now.

[FujiKiwi]

9. Smith
10. Mo'unga
11. Bridge
12. ALB
13. Goodhue
14. Jordan
15. B Barrett

21. TJP
22. J Barrett
23. Laumape (if fit, otherwise Clarke/Reece)

Midfielders in their natural positions, and wingers with actual pace.

This looks great. But if Laumape's out, who goes into midfield if there's an injury, with your scenario? J Barrett?

[UncleFB]

We’d all agree that Rieko should be dropped, though, right?

Probably in a minority of one here, but I think he should be given another chance.

I was being a bit facetious. I thought he had one or two bungling moments but disagree that he was "utterly useless" as AC suggests. He looked dangerous at times, if he'd just use a bit more common sense.

I still much prefer Goodhue at 12, ALB at 13 but could see Rieko in some role as long term back up.

It's really not any use taking anything AC says about his cousins the Ioane brothers. Clearly they always beat him to the good stuff from the umu so he spends his time on rugby forums cutting them down regardless of how they play.

If he'd tucked the ball and we'd have won the game everyone would be celebrating, as it is I still think he scored the try but the TMO was overly cautious about bias, there was no clear separation, but as I said he should have tucked it and then there'd be no debate, so he's a dipshit in that respect.

[mrbrownstone]

9. Smith
10. Mo'unga
11. Bridge
12. ALB
13. Goodhue
14. Jordan
15. B Barrett

21. TJP
22. J Barrett
23. Laumape (if fit, otherwise Clarke/Reece)

Midfielders in their natural positions, and wingers with actual pace.

This looks great. But if Laumape's out, who goes into midfield if there's an injury, with your scenario? J Barrett?

Probably Jordie. With Ennor injured and Laumape on the comeback, I guess the only real options are Reiko, Jordie, or Umaga-Jensen. With his size I think Jordie is a better midfield candidate at test level than Reiko. Personally I'd be happy enough blood Umaga-Jensen, but I doubt that would happen.

[FujiKiwi]

I agree that Rieko Ioane is a bit of a dick, and stuffed up a few big moments, but I see him as redeemable as some kind of back up to Goodhue and ALB, who should be starting.

That said, a fit Ennor, fit Laumape or Peter Umaga-Jensen would all get my vote before Rieko.

I'm not sure about Jordie as a midfielder, though. Even at a pinch. Isn't that just another case of playing a player out of position?

[Tussock]

What is Goodhue's best position? In my mind, he's a better 13 than 12... similar to a C. Smith type player... Laumape (any other 12's in squad) at 12.

[Carter's Choice]

What is Goodhue's best position? In my mind, he's a better 13 than 12... similar to a C. Smith type player... Laumape (any other 12's in squad) at 12.

He's a better centre, but he played bloody well for the Crusaders as a 12 this year. Ian Foster needs to decide what his best midfield is, and stick with it. It took Nonu and Smith years to become a great midfield pairing.

[Tussock]

What is Goodhue's best position? In my mind, he's a better 13 than 12... similar to a C. Smith type player... Laumape (any other 12's in squad) at 12.

He's a better centre, but he played bloody well for the Crusaders as a 12 this year. Ian Foster needs to decide what his best midfield is, and stick with it. It took Nonu and Smith years to become a great midfield pairing.

Agreed. Bed in a settled centre pairing over the next year. Inundated with 13's/utility players but not many specialist 12's in squad.

[Kiwias]

What is Goodhue's best position? In my mind, he's a better 13 than 12... similar to a C. Smith type player... Laumape (any other 12's in squad) at 12.

He's a better centre, but he played bloody well for the Crusaders as a 12 this year. Ian Foster needs to decide what his best midfield is, and stick with it. It took Nonu and Smith years to become a great midfield pairing.

This, this, and this.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

What is Goodhue's best position? In my mind, he's a better 13 than 12... similar to a C. Smith type player... Laumape (any other 12's in squad) at 12.

He's a better centre, but he played bloody well for the Crusaders as a 12 this year. Ian Foster needs to decide what his best midfield is, and stick with it. It took Nonu and Smith years to become a great midfield pairing.

This, this, and this.

Totally. Ioane and others can be considered as cover but Shirley our best centre pairing is ALB and Goodhue.

[Wild Beef]

Depends on if they want someone to hit the defence like a tank.

[mrbrownstone]

I think the issue with a Goodhue/ALB midfield with the likes of Bridge, Jordan, or Reece on the wings is a lack of size in the backline. I imagine that's why Reiko and Jordie were picked - to add bigger bodies.

Goodhue isn't a small guy by any means, but you wouldn't class him as a 'power' player in the Nonu/J. Savea etc mould.

I'd still pick Goodhue/ALB personally, but I think the selectors will want one of Clarke/Laumape/Ioane somewhere in the starting side to provide that power game.

[Flockwitt]

I was just coming to post the same thing. If we play Goodhue/ALB I definitely would want to see Caleb start and have the option of the power winger-in running at the 10/12 gap and forcing the opposition loosies to swarm back to the ruck. There needs to be the smash as well as finesse.

[FujiKiwi]

As AC has pointed out, there was power on the field. It was just never used. Strategy just as weak as selection. Maybe weaker.

[Carter's Choice]

As AC has pointed out, there was power on the field. It was just never used. Strategy just as weak as selection. Maybe weaker.

The 'dual playmaker' system is a failure, and will go down as being Hansen/Foster's version of Henry's failed 'Flat Backline' circa 2008/9.

The dual playmaker system was always a cop out, a way to protect Beaudan Barrett's fragile ego. Instead of outright dropping him like they should have, they sold it as a move where he could continue to run the attack but just wear a different number. It was a gutless alternative to relegating BB to the bench. The dual playmaker system has failed. It is disorganised and chaotic mess and needs to end immediately. Foster needs to pick his best no.10 and allow him to lead the team.

[FujiKiwi]

I think you can knock the dual playmaker plan without painting Beauden Barrett as a temperamental prima donna. He doesn’t come across that way at all.

[wet-socks]

As AC has pointed out, there was power on the field. It was just never used. Strategy just as weak as selection. Maybe weaker.

The 'dual playmaker' system is a failure, and will go down as being Hansen/Foster's version of Henry's failed 'Flat Backline' circa 2008/9.

The dual playmaker system was always a cop out, a way to protect Beaudan Barrett's fragile ego. Instead of outright dropping him like they should have, they sold it as a move where he could continue to run the attack but just wear a different number. It was a gutless alternative to relegating BB to the bench. The dual playmaker system has failed. It is disorganised and chaotic mess and needs to end immediately. Foster needs to pick his best no.10 and allow him to lead the team.

The flat backline was actually Wayne Smith's idea. It took two years for it to become completely effective, but it definitely payed off in the end.

[wet-socks]

I think you can knock the dual playmaker plan without painting Beauden Barrett as a temperamental prima donna. He doesn’t come across that way at all.

For the good of the team, Beauden needs to be on the bench at 22.

Jordie is the best fullback in the country and needs to be played there.

[Carter's Choice]

The flat backline was actually Wayne Smith's idea. It took two years for it to become completely effective, but it definitely payed off in the end.

We all know it was Wayne Smith's idea. But Henry was the head coach who persisted with it. And it never paid off, it was a disaster that was dumped after the disgraceful 2009 season.

[wet-socks]

The flat backline was actually Wayne Smith's idea. It took two years for it to become completely effective, but it definitely payed off in the end.

We all know it was Wayne Smith's idea. But Henry was the head coach who persisted with it. And it never paid off, it was a disaster that was dumped after the disgraceful 2009 season.

[Carter's Choice]

The flat backline was actually Wayne Smith's idea. It took two years for it to become completely effective, but it definitely payed off in the end.

We all know it was Wayne Smith's idea. But Henry was the head coach who persisted with it. And it never paid off, it was a disaster that was dumped after the disgraceful 2009 season.

Was it dumped? I was under the impression this has been the same system Foster has used ever since he become attack coach in 2012?

The All Black's attack has been notoriously flat for years.

Are you high? F**k oath the 'flat backline' experiment was dumped. Mind you it nearly cost Dan Carter his career before he'd won a single RWC title.

[obelixtim]

Reiko needs to be dropped. Every coach I've played under would drop him for that screw up. And his team mates who had done bloody well to set him up with an easy run in would have been spewing. That bit of dumbfuckery cost them the game.

He needs to learn to respect the ball, his team mates and the opposition, before he should be allowed to be a contender for the black jersey again. Fozzie should sentence him to doing laps of the ground on his own, while the rest of the team get on with training. No place for show ponies in the ABs.