Bledisloe I: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Oct 11

[Enzedder]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

For me the following needs to happen

Jordie to 15

Will Jordan to 14

Beauden to the bench

Lumpy in to 12

Goodhue to 13 and ALB provides cover for 12/13

Mo'unga given another chance with a rocket.

Smith told he must pass in front of Mo'unga and not straight at him.

I think we have to stick with Tuipulotu and Frizell (and hope like hell that they come out firing)>

Someone has mentioned that we have to earn the right to spin the ball wide and we did not even try to do that yesterday.

[Wild Beef]

Is lumpy fit? If the coaches are determined to have a big quick in the centre’s then he’s a much better option than Ioane (and allows Goodhue to play in his best position).

[Jb1981]

I would have ALB in rather than Laumape but otherwise agree.

[Wild Beef]

Hence my big quick caveat. I also prefer ALB but I’m pretty sure the coaches want a war hammer in there somewhere.

[Enzedder]

I am trying to recreate the success that was Nonu and Smith.

[el camino]

I don’t think Ngani will be considered for this week - still coming back from the injury

But I would love to see him get a decent run this season. He’s never had more than two games in a row for the all blacks. The midfield has been a mess since Nonu left

[Carter's Choice]

I don’t think Ngani will be considered for this week - still coming back from the injury

But I would love to see him get a decent run this season. He’s never had more than two games in a row for the all blacks. The midfield has been a mess since Nonu left

The midfield has been a mess because Hansen was obsessed with rotation. SBW, Crotty, ALB and Goodhue all performed well for the AB;s, but Hansen preferred rotation over consistency.

I'm never been a huge Ngani Laumape fan, but I think playing outside Mo;unga, and inside a creative 13 like Goodhue, he could thrive. He isn't a playmaker and he isn't a kicker, but he brings a power game that our other options at 12 lack.

[mrbrownstone]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

4 by my count: Ardie, Goodhue, Ioane, Jordie.

Doesn't help when nearly a third of your team and half your backline is playing out of their best position.

[Ted.]

Bit of a kiwi juzz fust over here? Reminiscent of the SA freds in the other joint.

That's because this thread is exclusive to Kiwis. Aussie are specifically barred. Who the fuck let you in?

[Carter's Choice]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

4 by my count: Ardie, Goodhue, Ioane, Jordie.

Doesn't help when nearly a third of your team and half your backline is playing out of their best position.

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

[Ted.]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

4 by my count: Ardie, Goodhue, Ioane, Jordie.

Doesn't help when nearly a third of your team and half your backline is playing out of their best position.

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

Ioane at centre and Jordy on the wing were the most obvious misfits, IMO. I think it is just a matter of time in the saddle for Nugget and Mo to strike up a decent relationship.

[Wild Beef]

Putting a FB on the wing is hardly a crime and has been done many times successfully.

[Ted.]

Putting a FB on the wing is hardly a crime and has been done many times successfully.

You just don't plonk any old fullback on the any old wing in any old game, though, do you. Just like you wouldn't put any old any old 7 at 6 or 8, or any old 1 at 3 and visa versa, but it's hardly a crime either.

On the other hand, Jordy on the wing was one of those moves that was all about shoehorning more "wish list" players into the team. Hopefully, anyone who previously considered Jordy as a winger at this level has discovered some rugby wisdom.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Putting a FB on the wing is hardly a crime and has been done many times successfully.

You just don't plonk any old fullback on the any old wing in any old game, though, do you. Just like you wouldn't put any old any old 7 at 6 or 8, or any old 1 at 3 and visa versa, but it's hardly a crime either.

On the other hand, Jordy on the wing was one of those moves that was all about shoehorning more "wish list" players into the team. Hopefully, anyone who previously considered Jordy as a winger at this level has discovered some rugby wisdom.

I'd agree. Jordie is a 15 who can act as a stop gap winger if required. He shouldn't be starting on the wing.

[Carter's Choice]

Putting a FB on the wing is hardly a crime and has been done many times successfully.

You just don't plonk any old fullback on the any old wing in any old game, though, do you. Just like you wouldn't put any old any old 7 at 6 or 8, or any old 1 at 3 and visa versa, but it's hardly a crime either.

On the other hand, Jordy on the wing was one of those moves that was all about shoehorning more "wish list" players into the team. Hopefully, anyone who previously considered Jordy as a winger at this level has discovered some rugby wisdom.

I'd agree. Jordie is a 15 who can act as a stop gap winger if required. He shouldn't be starting on the wing.

I agree. There is no other skill set, or range of skill sets, that a winger can have which can override a lack of pace. JB is relatively slow, in particular off the mark - as you'd expect from a player of his size/height.

[el camino]

I don’t think Ngani will be considered for this week - still coming back from the injury

But I would love to see him get a decent run this season. He’s never had more than two games in a row for the all blacks. The midfield has been a mess since Nonu left

The midfield has been a mess because Hansen was obsessed with rotation. SBW, Crotty, ALB and Goodhue all performed well for the AB;s, but Hansen preferred rotation over consistency.

I'm never been a huge Ngani Laumape fan, but I think playing outside Mo;unga, and inside a creative 13 like Goodhue, he could thrive. He isn't a playmaker and he isn't a kicker, but he brings a power game that our other options at 12 lack.

Laumape/Goodhue would be my preferred choice with ALB getting 20-30 minutes for either of them.

Having Laumape outside Mo'unga will really help a creative player like Mo'unga IMO. Laumape can be used for dummy runs, keeping the defence in two minds (he's got a good pass too) or just smash over the advantage line.

[Dan54]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

For me the following needs to happen

Jordie to 15

Will Jordan to 14

Beauden to the bench

Lumpy in to 12

Goodhue to 13 and ALB provides cover for 12/13

Mo'unga given another chance with a rocket.

Smith told he must pass in front of Mo'unga and not straight at him.

I think we have to stick with Tuipulotu and Frizell (and hope like hell that they come out firing)>

Someone has mentioned that we have to earn the right to spin the ball wide and we did not even try to do that yesterday.

mate to me I would put Ioane to the bench (f*** he was so far away from position that lead to Korbete's try), but just saw your Lumpy, he not ready though. Perhaps Mounga to bench and BB starting, not sure I want to see Mounga lose confidence with another rabbit in headline perfomance that seemed to happen when the Wallabies swamped him (similar to England last year?), he done it a couple of times at test level and don't want to see him lose confidence. Perhaps BB at 15 could take some of the pressure off him? I thought perhaps the only other one who surprised me was Sam Whitelock losing that last lineout ball cold after he seemed to have it, perhaps a bit buggered by then, but if ever there was a money man in ABs I would chuck a ball to that I needed ,it's usually him!
I wonder if Ardie to bench as I think he may have more impact, certainly thought cane put to bed in questions who the 7 is at this level, he was pretty good.

Now all this was from one viewing of game live on Moreton Island and haven't sat down and dissected it in a big way, so happy to be corrected.

[Dan54]

How many players were out of their normal position in that lineup? About the only one who was any good out of position was Ardie Savea and even he wasn't anywhere near a Read standard.

4 by my count: Ardie, Goodhue, Ioane, Jordie.

Doesn't help when nearly a third of your team and half your backline is playing out of their best position.

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

Yep good point about combos, and the Wallabies would of been very similar I think, combinations just may need time to help them bed in?

[Carter's Choice]

4 by my count: Ardie, Goodhue, Ioane, Jordie.

Doesn't help when nearly a third of your team and half your backline is playing out of their best position.

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

Yep good point about combos, and the Wallabies would of been very similar I think, combinations just may need time to help them bed in?

The Wallabies have a much better coach so they can get away with a lack of combinations. How do you think your man Foster went yesterday?

[Chilli]

[Chilli]

[Kiwias]

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

Yep good point about combos, and the Wallabies would of been very similar I think, combinations just may need time to help them bed in?

The Wallabies have a much better coach so they can get away with a lack of combinations. How do you think your man Foster went yesterday?

Given that we are at the start of a new cycle and the significant losses in our backline post-RWC2019, the lack of combos is understandable in the first test of the season. If we are still seeing inexperienced combos such as those in 6~12 months time, we would be falling into the Hansen trap.

[Dan54]

Even more damning is the lack of combinations.

Halves - 6 tests together
Midfield - 0 tests together'
Back three - zero tests together

Yep good point about combos, and the Wallabies would of been very similar I think, combinations just may need time to help them bed in?

The Wallabies have a much better coach so they can get away with a lack of combinations. How do you think your man Foster went yesterday?

Geez we back on Planet rugby, geez Dismal Pillock was right when he said maybe we should call it Very Planet Rugby!
Didn't know Foster was my coach, but by all means enlighten me how he is.
Not sure I even saw Foster play , and even if he was mine and I wouldn't be marking him much on one game, anymore than I would mark Rennie as a bad coach if Wallabies have a bad game. I will look a bit later in season.

[Auckman]

Let's not get carried away here. Despite his basketball play, Reiko Ioane's future is at centre. Let's see how he goes at fortress Eden Park this week. Whether he is on the bench or starting, he should remain at centre.

[Flockwitt]

Let's not get carried away here. Despite his basketball play, Reiko Ioane's future is at centre. Let's see how he goes at fortress Eden Park this week. Whether he is on the bench or starting, he should remain at centre.

Agreed. His time as a winger is done.

[average joe]

How many kicks at post did the AB's miss and why would a player drop a ball over the line after an easy run in. Was he focusing on what he was going to do after he scored? Perhaps next time focus on dotting the ball down proper first?

[Carter's Choice]

Geez we back on Planet rugby, geez Dismal Pillock was right when he said maybe we should call it Very Planet Rugby!
Didn't know Foster was my coach, but by all means enlighten me how he is.
Not sure I even saw Foster play , and even if he was mine and I wouldn't be marking him much on one game, anymore than I would mark Rennie as a bad coach if Wallabies have a bad game. I will look a bit later in season.

You've been the most vocal supporter of Ian Foster and NZR that I've seen on the internet, across a range of forums.

[Dan54]

Geez we back on Planet rugby, geez Dismal Pillock was right when he said maybe we should call it Very Planet Rugby!
Didn't know Foster was my coach, but by all means enlighten me how he is.
Not sure I even saw Foster play , and even if he was mine and I wouldn't be marking him much on one game, anymore than I would mark Rennie as a bad coach if Wallabies have a bad game. I will look a bit later in season.

You've been the most vocal supporter of Ian Foster and NZR that I've seen on the internet, across a range of forums.

Find any post where I have said I prefer Foster or remain on the proven liars list (as I posted that I preferred JJ)!!
Ok you will go quiet and not mention it again won't you?

[JM2K6]

Refs do feel the pressure too, they hate giving penalties at the death like that. Wobblies did the same thing at the other end, a player just runs round the side of the ruck then picks up the ball when it comes out. Makes for fun viewing though!

[Ted.]

Refs do feel the pressure too, they hate giving penalties at the death like that. Wobblies did the same thing at the other end, a player just runs round the side of the ruck then picks up the ball when it comes out. Makes for fun viewing though!

Oh I dunno. He gave a penalty to the Wobs when Symons more blatantly ran around the back of the AB's side of the ruck and cleaned out one of our props back towards the Wobs side. Luckily the kick missed.

[JM2K6]

Refs do feel the pressure too, they hate giving penalties at the death like that. Wobblies did the same thing at the other end, a player just runs round the side of the ruck then picks up the ball when it comes out. Makes for fun viewing though!

Oh I dunno. He gave a penalty to the Wobs when Symons more blatantly ran around the back of the AB's side of the ruck and cleaned out one of our props back towards the Wobs side. Luckily the kick missed.

There's a difference between being happy to give penalties on halfway and giving them 10m out.

[Not_Couch]

I would have ALB in rather than Laumape but otherwise agree.

Laumape is the form 12 in NZ.

He made ALB, Goodhue and Ioane his play things this year.

[Jb1981]

I would have ALB in rather than Laumape but otherwise agree.

Laumape is the form 12 in NZ.

He made ALB, Goodhue and Ioane his play things this year.

Goodhue and Ioane were playing Centre, Laumape as you say second-five.

My biggest memory of his highlights this year was him standing up and then outpacing Beauden Barrett and then going straight over the top of him. If ever anyone was made a plaything, it was Beauden Barrett that game - he’d have been waking up having nightmares about Ngani Laumape.

[Ted.]

I would have ALB in rather than Laumape but otherwise agree.

Laumape is the form 12 in NZ.

He made ALB, Goodhue and Ioane his play things this year.

Goodhue and Ioane were playing Centre, Laumape as you say second-five.

My biggest memory of his highlights this year was him standing up and then outpacing Beauden Barrett and then going straight over the top of him. If ever anyone was made a plaything, it was Beauden Barrett that game - he’d have been waking up having nightmares about Ngani Laumape.

Selective memory? Goodhue played 12 against the Canes, at least that's where he defended, and ended up being beasted and skinned.

[Carter's Choice]

Selective memory? Goodhue played 12 against the Canes, at least that's where he defended, and ended up being beasted and skinned.

Poor Jack will have to comfort himself with his four Super Rugby winners medals. Meanwhile, all the Hurricanes players since the beginning of time have won a combined total of just one.