The Scottish Politics Thread

[robmatic]

One of the more reasonable arguments for separation was that Holyrood had a better political culture than Westminster and the political establishment (largely embodied by the SNP) were a better class of politicians.

I am not sure anyone can make that argument now.

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

[Tichtheid]

Further to this if any of you truly believe the SNP are just going to slink off once they get Indy you really need to put down the crack pipe.

Has anyone said the SNP would "slink off" after an indy vote was won? Why should they?

I imagine they will stand for election as they are entitled to do, along with any other legitimate party, then it's up to the people of Scotland who represents them at Holyrood.

Under that scenario I imagine the SNP's vote will be diminished, as long as other parties can put forward candidates and policies that ring with the Scottish voters.

[tc27]

One of the more reasonable arguments for separation was that Holyrood had a better political culture than Westminster and the political establishment (largely embodied by the SNP) were a better class of politicians.

I am not sure anyone can make that argument now.

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

[tc27]

Sturgeon is the best communicator in UK politics and a far more respectable figure than Johnson

May not be as respectable as assumed if the rumours of super injunctions are true.

Its an open secret what the super injunction is about and more strange than sinister IMO (I mean 'it' being openly acknowledged has not hurt Ruth Davison or Kezia Dugdale)

[Tichtheid]

One of the more reasonable arguments for separation was that Holyrood had a better political culture than Westminster and the political establishment (largely embodied by the SNP) were a better class of politicians.

I am not sure anyone can make that argument now.

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

[MSG#]

Sturgeon is .... a far more respectable figure than Johnson

The empress has no clothes.

That's hardly an appropriate idiom, it would take a hell of a lot to be less respectable than Johnson.

Going by some of the posts here everything and anything SNP-related is a subject of near hatred.

Not having that kind of knee-jerk reaction to a political party is not the same as supporting them.

Like directly lying to the scottish parliament about the biggest political scandal in SNP history? When are they going to have a proper investigation so that the police can testify where they obtained their evidence?

[Slick]

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

Who in Scotland is allowed to be Priti Patel or Dominic Cummings?

And, as for the civil service.... not sure that is a wise way to go. The civil service is quite quickly being run like an extension of the SNP with political appointments becoming very much the norm. Just this week I see the amazingly useless head of Scottish Enterprise, a completely political appointment, has gone after less that 2 years of being amzingly useless.

[Tichtheid]

Like directly lying to the scottish parliament about the biggest political scandal in SNP history? When are they going to have a proper investigation so that the police can testify where they obtained their evidence?

...and when that is proven I'll condemn Sturgeon like I'd condemn anyone for lying to Parliament.

[MSG#]

Like directly lying to the scottish parliament about the biggest political scandal in SNP history? When are they going to have a proper investigation so that the police can testify where they obtained their evidence?

...and when that is proven I'll condemn Sturgeon like I'd condemn anyone for lying to Parliament.

Didn't the guy testify that he told her? Sounds like proof to me.

[Bimbowomxn]

Like directly lying to the scottish parliament about the biggest political scandal in SNP history? When are they going to have a proper investigation so that the police can testify where they obtained their evidence?

...and when that is proven I'll condemn Sturgeon like I'd condemn anyone for lying to Parliament.

Didn't the guy testify that he told her? Sounds like proof to me.

He believes she can’t remember.

[tc27]

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

Its a bit tedious but can play this game if you want:

Derek Mackey for Priti Patel.

Peter Murrell for Cummings.

Appointment of politicised advisors like Devi Sridhar - record civil service bullying allegations against SNP ministers.

[Tichtheid]

I don't believe MacKay or Murrell are close to those two, but the bullying one I'll agree with, it's totally unacceptable.

Again, I'll reiterate, I don't support the SNP any further than their goal of the Scottish people being responsible for who governs them.

[Northern Lights]

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

Its a bit tedious but can play this game if you want:

Derek Mackey for Priti Patel.

Peter Murrell for Cummings.

Appointment of politicised advisors like Devi Sridhar - record civil service bullying allegations against SNP ministers.

Has Priti been sexting kids? She is a car crash appointment which other than her uttering being a convenient distration to other nonsense going on doesnt make much sense but i dont think her actions have been as bad as Mackay but I could have missed something.

[MSG#]

I don't believe MacKay or Murrell are close to those two, but the bullying one I'll agree with, it's totally unacceptable.

Again, I'll reiterate, I don't support the SNP any further than their goal of the Scottish people being responsible for who governs them.

They are responsible for them.

[Northern Lights]

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

There has been a huge centralisation of power in Scotland away from the LA's that has been going on for years and the CS in Scotland as Slick says are chock full of political appointees, they are most certainly not apolitical and havent been for ages which is also why they are stuffed full of mediocrity. That is not to say there arent good people in there, there most certainly are but as a whole our CS is pretty poor.

[Tichtheid]

Has Priti been sexting kids?

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

[MSG#]

I dunno, Westminster has turned into an abominable shitshow. I'm not motivated in saying this for party political reasons either as I'm a potential/ex-Conservative voter but it's shamelessly corrupt and there isn't even a pretense of managerial competence any longer - just Oxford PPE types bluffing their way to the top.

I make no defence of the current government - its pretty awful.

The stage is smaller at Holyrood and Bute house but proportionally the actors are just as bad IMO

Who is Scotland's Priti Patel? Or Dominic Cummings for that matter, and not just for the big headlines, but also the ongoing removal of experience in the Civil Service and replacing it with compliance.

Experience in what? Laws have been handed down from the EU for 40 years.

[robmatic]

Has Priti been sexting kids?

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

Sounds like grooming tbh which isn't a great deal better.

[MSG#]

Has Priti been sexting kids?

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

Sounds like grooming tbh which isn't a great deal better.

The lad is over 16 which is why he hadn't broken the law. (unless scottish law is different)

[Tichtheid]

Experience in what? Laws have been handed down from the EU for 40 years.

Oh dear.

[Tichtheid]

Has Priti been sexting kids?

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

Sounds like grooming tbh which isn't a great deal better.

Because he is 16, ie of the age of consent it has to be treated as if the person sending texts was sending them to someone their own age. An overtly sexual nature of texts would presumably count as stalking - I'm not sure, this is just a guess as I'm looking for reasons the police saying there was no reason to prosecute.
Stalking would presumably lead to a restraining order of some kind.

[Northern Lights]

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

Sounds like grooming tbh which isn't a great deal better.

Because he is 16, ie of the age of consent it has to be treated as if the person sending texts was sending them to someone their own age. An overtly sexual nature of texts would presumably count as stalking - I'm not sure, this is just a guess as I'm looking for reasons the police saying there was no reason to prosecute.
Stalking would presumably lead to a restraining order of some kind.

The police obviously didnt feel there was enough for prosecution or they would have passed it to the PF, the lad being over 16 was probably the clincher here, a few months younger and it would likely be different. I will bow to your knowledge on exactly what he said as not sexting but enough to need counselling on as i havent gone through the Sun's transcript and tbh have no desire to.

[MoreOrLess]

This has led me to the distasteful task of reading through the Scottish Sun's "full transcript of the messages sent by Derek MacKay"

Mackay was 100% in the wrong, he instigated contact and kept pestering the 16 year old boy, asking to meet, offering him the chance to meet rugby players at a do at Holyrood etc.

However, and this is probably why the police decided he hadn't broken any law, other than saying the boy was "cute", it would be a stretch to describe the messages as "sexting".

Imagine some guy in his 40s showing up to your work do with a 16 year old boy he met online and was trying to bang

He couldn't show his face in the office again!

[Tichtheid]

Imagine some guy in his 40s showing up to your work do with a 16 year old boy he met online and was trying to bang

He couldn't show his face in the office again!

Well, that's a rather prosaic way to put it, but I take your point. He was 100% in the wrong and his actions show he clearly needs help, hopefully the counselling will provide this.

Also, hopefully a line can be drawn under this for the lad who was subjected to the, well, harassment doesn't seem too strong a word

[MoreOrLess]

Imagine some guy in his 40s showing up to your work do with a 16 year old boy he met online and was trying to bang

He couldn't show his face in the office again!

Well, that's a rather prosaic way to put it, but I take your point. He was 100% in the wrong and his actions show he clearly needs help, hopefully the counselling will provide this.

Also, hopefully a line can be drawn under this for the lad who was subjected to the, well, harassment doesn't seem too strong a word

Say what you will about the SNP, a responsible employer should be getting this kind of help for their staff.....even if they do bag him afterwards!

[Northern Lights]

Ok time for a comment piece, I haven't posted one from the Times for a wee while and it's from the main section as opposed to hidden away as usual in the Scotland section and not from Massie.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comm ... 757992_101

The shine is coming off Nicola Sturgeon
A political and sexual scandal, not to mention rising cases of Covid-19, is eroding support for Scotland’s first minister
Iain Martin
Thursday October 08 2020, 12.00am, The Times

Imagine for a moment that Boris Johnson is mired in a scandal eclipsing even his previous flirtations with public disgrace. His predecessor as party leader has been cleared in a criminal trial of charges of sexual assault, but the allegation is that the prime minister met him (at home) mid-investigation to discuss these murky matters in a clear breach of the ministerial code. Boris cannot recall, or won’t say, what he knew and when, prompting accusations that he is obstructing a parliamentary inquiry into the scandal. He admits he was worried that his predecessor would resign from the party, which would have caused him embarrassment. Yet he insists he never discussed any of this with his partner, who has been chief executive of the Conservative Party for more than 20 years.

If such a scandal was happening at Westminster, imagine the response of the SNP. It would be presented as final proof of the moral turpitude of a supposedly broken Union. Nicola Sturgeon would be marching about — think Miss Jean Brodie meets firebrand preacher John Knox — denouncing English cronyism and corruption while demanding resignations and a referendum on breaking up the United Kingdom.

In fact, just such a scandal is unfolding today but with Sturgeon, not Johnson, at the heart of it.

Alex Salmond, the former SNP leader, was cleared earlier this year on charges of sexual assault. His supporters accuse a Sturgeon-ite cabal (otherwise known as the Scottish government) of a conspiracy to prevent him returning to power.

A committee of MSPs set up to investigate the Scottish government’s handling of harassment claims against the former first minister has complained about obstruction by the ruling party.

Yesterday, Sturgeon’s written submission to the inquiry was published. It was unconvincing stuff. The first minister says she “forgot” that she had been told about the allegations against Salmond by his senior aide and solicitor in early 2018. Now that she has been reminded of the meeting, she claims: “From what I recall, the discussion covered the fact that Alex Salmond wanted to see me urgently about a serious matter, and I think it did cover the suggestion that the matter might relate to allegations of a sexual nature.”

Sturgeon’s husband — and SNP chief executive for 20 years — is Peter Murrell. Murrell, the Penfold to Sturgeon’s Danger Mouse, sent texts in January 2019 suggesting it was a good time to pressurise the police because “the more fronts he [Salmond] is having to firefight on the better”. Murrell says that he only wanted the police to investigate thoroughly and to ensure that “questions be addressed to the police and not the SNP”. Really? A civil war is now raging inside the SNP over Murrell’s role in the scandal.

By a coincidence so extraordinary that you could be forgiven for thinking it was deliberate, this latest tranche of evidence was published on the same day that a suitably grave Sturgeon announced some headline-grabbing lockdown measures. Pubs and restaurants across central Scotland will close for two weeks from Friday.

It was only a few months ago that the first minister was praised across the UK for suggesting that, by taking a tougher approach than England, Scotland could be on course for zero Covid-19 cases by Christmas.

The new lockdown measures are a reminder that while Sturgeon has consistently outperformed Johnson in public relations terms, tackling the virus has been just as difficult on both sides of the border. The SNP leader’s pitch at next year’s Scottish elections was supposed to be that of a triumphant technocrat, offering a side order of independence via a referendum pledge. The nationalists appear, for now, on track to win a thumping majority: much of the Scottish electorate has admired Sturgeon’s toughness during the pandemic, especially when contrasted with Johnson, who comes across as a Scotsman’s idea of the worst sort of English buffoon.

But nothing is for ever in public opinion. Research published today by University College London’s Covid-19 Social Study suggests that confidence in Sturgeon’s handling of the pandemic has slipped since July. Those with “full confidence” are down from a summer peak of 34 per cent to 17 per cent now. Just over a quarter (26 per cent) of respondents in Scotland “on balance” do not have confidence in their government compared with 11 per cent in July.

The new Scottish Tory leader, Douglas Ross MP, is putting up a proper fight, assisted by the former leader Ruth Davidson, who is fronting for the Tories at Holyrood until he can win a seat there next year. It is possible that, despite all their efforts, they won’t dent the SNP’s vote share in May. The ruling party’s main advantage remains the death of the once-mighty Scottish Labour Party, which used to dominate where the SNP now sweeps up votes.

A tiny cabal runs Scotland — much smaller than the one that existed before devolution, and even to the exclusion of much of the SNP itself — and for what? Its record on education and the economy is dire, and the sole interest of Sturgeon and her circle appears to be retaining power in pursuit of their dream of breaking up the UK.

There is a bitter irony. While the SNP is quick to accuse Westminster of disrespecting the Edinburgh parliament, it is the SNP that has, through its internecine scandal, done more than anyone to disgrace the Scottish parliament and politics.

[tc27]

I don't believe MacKay or Murrell are close to those two, but the bullying one I'll agree with, it's totally unacceptable.

Again, I'll reiterate, I don't support the SNP any further than their goal of the Scottish people being responsible for who governs them.

That is fair enough (and I hesitated to reply as you are being ganged up on a little here and have remained civil).

Likewise I with a with a wider geographical view of the above statement do not currently support the conservative party any further than its goal of stopping the United Kingdom being split up.

[Tichtheid]

Iain Martin is a columnist for The Times. He is a former editor of The Scotsman and a former senior executive at The Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph

I only post the above as an indication of where the writer's political leanings may lie, it's fair enough, he can of course write what he wants, but it doesn't read to me like a serious piece of political analysis, more of a wish.

There are reasons why a government which has been in power for 13 years, has sent an overwhelming majority of MPs to Westminster for 10 years and is subject to strong attacks on its competency by its opponents but is still over 20 points ahead in the polls. That might be worth a bit of research on the ground

We'll see in May.

[Tichtheid]

I don't believe MacKay or Murrell are close to those two, but the bullying one I'll agree with, it's totally unacceptable.

Again, I'll reiterate, I don't support the SNP any further than their goal of the Scottish people being responsible for who governs them.

That is fair enough (and I hesitated to reply as you are being ganged up on a little here and have remained civil).

Likewise I with a with a wider geographical view of the above statement do not currently support the conservative party any further than its goal of stopping the United Kingdom being split up.

I don't see any reason to not remain civil, but you'd have to be a daft eedjit to not want self-determination for Scotland

[Northern Lights]

Iain Martin is a columnist for The Times. He is a former editor of The Scotsman and a former senior executive at The Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph

I only post the above as an indication of where the writer's political leanings may lie, it's fair enough, he can of course write what he wants, but it doesn't read to me like a serious piece of political analysis, more of a wish.

There are reasons why a government which has been in power for 13 years, has sent an overwhelming majority of MPs to Westminster for 10 years and is subject to strong attacks on its competency by its opponents but is still over 20 points ahead in the polls. That might be worth a bit of research on the ground

We'll see in May.

Everyone has political leanings, that shouldn’t preclude an honest discussion of what they are saying, I believe he has accurately summed up the current state of play in Scotland.

The shine is coming off and as you say only after the May elections will we know how the nation has voted but the 20 point lead will certainly shrink if the current trajectory is maintained.

[Tichtheid]

Everyone has political leanings, that shouldn’t preclude an honest discussion of what they are saying.

Hrmmm.

[MSG#]

Imagine some guy in his 40s showing up to your work do with a 16 year old boy he met online and was trying to bang

He couldn't show his face in the office again!

Well, that's a rather prosaic way to put it, but I take your point. He was 100% in the wrong and his actions show he clearly needs help, hopefully the counselling will provide this.

Also, hopefully a line can be drawn under this for the lad who was subjected to the, well, harassment doesn't seem too strong a word

Say what you will about the SNP, a responsible employer should be getting this kind of help for their staff.....even if they do bag him afterwards!

I don't think he's employed by the SNP. He's paid from the public purse - plus an extra £12k for standing down as minister, and £60k if he doesn't stand in the next election - plus being paid his salary for not going to Hollyrude at all. He can probably afford his own counselling. The kid was less than 2 years older than his son.

[Bimbowomxn]

British press don’t care about Scotland...

[SaintK]

So she still hasn't resigned and is feeling very sorry for herself!

Ferrier told the Sun that she felt railroaded into releasing the statement by party officials and was given just five minutes to warn family and friends that it was being released. She said:

"I just felt it was very pushy. You’ve just been told you have Covid. You’re stressed, with a lot of things going through your mind. You’re wanting somebody to help you. I said at that point ‘hang on a minute — as soon as this goes out am I going to be bombarded with abuse?’ They were not considering the fact that I had only been diagnosed with Covid and I don’t know how that’s going to affect my mental state. It just went crazy. I still haven’t looked at Twitter, but I have heard about it"

Yesterday, Ferrier told the Sun on Sunday that she “panicked” after receiving the positive test result in her Westminster office after speaking in the Commons, and insisted that she would not resign, despite cross-party calls for her to step down.

[robmatic]

So she still hasn't resigned and is feeling very sorry for herself!

Ferrier told the Sun that she felt railroaded into releasing the statement by party officials and was given just five minutes to warn family and friends that it was being released. She said:

"I just felt it was very pushy. You’ve just been told you have Covid. You’re stressed, with a lot of things going through your mind. You’re wanting somebody to help you. I said at that point ‘hang on a minute — as soon as this goes out am I going to be bombarded with abuse?’ They were not considering the fact that I had only been diagnosed with Covid and I don’t know how that’s going to affect my mental state. It just went crazy. I still haven’t looked at Twitter, but I have heard about it"

Yesterday, Ferrier told the Sun on Sunday that she “panicked” after receiving the positive test result in her Westminster office after speaking in the Commons, and insisted that she would not resign, despite cross-party calls for her to step down.

Shameless, thick or both?

[Biffer]

So she still hasn't resigned and is feeling very sorry for herself!

Ferrier told the Sun that she felt railroaded into releasing the statement by party officials and was given just five minutes to warn family and friends that it was being released. She said:

"I just felt it was very pushy. You’ve just been told you have Covid. You’re stressed, with a lot of things going through your mind. You’re wanting somebody to help you. I said at that point ‘hang on a minute — as soon as this goes out am I going to be bombarded with abuse?’ They were not considering the fact that I had only been diagnosed with Covid and I don’t know how that’s going to affect my mental state. It just went crazy. I still haven’t looked at Twitter, but I have heard about it"

Yesterday, Ferrier told the Sun on Sunday that she “panicked” after receiving the positive test result in her Westminster office after speaking in the Commons, and insisted that she would not resign, despite cross-party calls for her to step down.

Shameless, thick or both?

Is it answer C?

[Northern Lights]

So she still hasn't resigned and is feeling very sorry for herself!

Ferrier told the Sun that she felt railroaded into releasing the statement by party officials and was given just five minutes to warn family and friends that it was being released. She said:

"I just felt it was very pushy. You’ve just been told you have Covid. You’re stressed, with a lot of things going through your mind. You’re wanting somebody to help you. I said at that point ‘hang on a minute — as soon as this goes out am I going to be bombarded with abuse?’ They were not considering the fact that I had only been diagnosed with Covid and I don’t know how that’s going to affect my mental state. It just went crazy. I still haven’t looked at Twitter, but I have heard about it"

Yesterday, Ferrier told the Sun on Sunday that she “panicked” after receiving the positive test result in her Westminster office after speaking in the Commons, and insisted that she would not resign, despite cross-party calls for her to step down.

Shameless, thick or both?

I think it would be fair to say she won't earn what she currently does back on civvy street, so that's probably the biggest driver for her toughing it out.

[clydecloggie]

Aye, she has to go. No other acceptable outcome. If those are actual quotes from her, she's deluded.

And trying to play the stress / mental health card...please. She's an MP, her and the party she represented at the time have rightfully given the Tories pelters for the Cummings affair and associated fuck ups, now is the time to show they meant it.

[Slick]

So she still hasn't resigned and is feeling very sorry for herself!

Shameless, thick or both?

I think it would be fair to say she won't earn what she currently does back on civvy street, so that's probably the biggest driver for her toughing it out.

Thing is, if she had done the decent thing straight away then started with the poor me routine she might have found a decent job. Now she will be voted out at the first opportunity and no one will touch he with a bargepole.

[JM2K6]

Shameless, thick or both?

I think it would be fair to say she won't earn what she currently does back on civvy street, so that's probably the biggest driver for her toughing it out.

Thing is, if she had done the decent thing straight away then started with the poor me routine she might have found a decent job. Now she will be voted out at the first opportunity and no one will touch he with a bargepole.

People love a reason to forgive someone and they like nothing better than humility and people who've done wrong owning it and owning up to it. It doesn't require 7D chess for a politician to turn their fuckup into a positive even if they have to give up their current job to do so. But arrogance and self-delusion stops people like her from taking this route. And unfortunately we live in a political environment where consequences are not easily found.