Southport Incident

[mat the expat]

Of course they should have. But this is Britain. We're skint, disorganised and terrible at dealing with mental health issues. Bugger-all chance either of these attacks could have been foreseen, communicated to the right authority and managed "with padded cells". I don't think Japan or Norway would have more success either.

Shit just happens when nutters are around.

All these Tory Voters baying for blood seem to forget they voted for "Care in the Community" and closure of specialised facilities

As dumb as Trump voters sometimes

[shaggy]

I thought most were closed in the 50s and 60s? A lot of governments since then to identify and correct the problem?

[Yeeb]

I thought most were closed in the 50s and 60s? A lot of governments since then to identify and correct the problem?

There will always be people who can link an event to Tory voters & thatcher , including ex pats

[Lobby]

I thought most were closed in the 50s and 60s? A lot of governments since then to identify and correct the problem?

There will always be people who can link an event to Tory voters & thatcher , including ex pats

While it is true that that the the idea that caring for the mentally ill and the old in their own homes and in the community, rather than locking them away in Victorian institutions that were more akin to prisons was increasingly popular from the 1950s onwards, Thatcher's government in the mid-1980s was the first one to adopt it as a specific policy. It then became a reality with the passing of the National Health Service and Community Care Act in 1990, which came into force in 1993.

The problem isn't the concept of allowing people with mental health problem to live their own lives without being locked away for ever, but rather the lack of resources provided to give them adequate care in the community.

It has been recognised since that the reforms introduced by Thatcher's government were a failure, but no one wants to return to the previous position. Just as with social care more generally the costs of addressing the problem properly are potentially huge and no government has had the will to do anything other than tinker at the edges.

[Yeeb]

Qed

[tabascoboy]

50+ years in jail - seems about right!

52 year minimum term and an expectation that he will never leave jail.

Second longest term ever given to someone who was under 18 when they committed the crime.

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

[sturginho]

50+ years in jail - seems about right!

52 year minimum term and an expectation that he will never leave jail.

Second longest term ever given to someone who was under 18 when they committed the crime.

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

[Biffer]

The death penalty is only really a punishment if you believe in a real, actual hell.

[inactionman]

50+ years in jail - seems about right!

52 year minimum term and an expectation that he will never leave jail.

Second longest term ever given to someone who was under 18 when they committed the crime.

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

[dpedin]

52 year minimum term and an expectation that he will never leave jail.

Second longest term ever given to someone who was under 18 when they committed the crime.

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

I suspect 30p has the same depth of understanding about the death penalty as Braverman.

[Biffer]

52 year minimum term and an expectation that he will never leave jail.

Second longest term ever given to someone who was under 18 when they committed the crime.

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

Also, calling for it for someone who was still a minor when the crime was committed. How young do they want to kill people? 17? 16? 15? 14?

[inactionman]

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

Also, calling for it for someone who was still a minor when the crime was committed. How young do they want to kill people? 17? 16? 15? 14?

II admit when I first read that reform wanted to execute murderers in 'exceptional circumstances', I interpreted they meant in cases where the culprit wasn't dyed-in-the-wool multi-generational British white. I'm sure age doesn't matter too much to them.

It's worrying that the likes of reform do seem to have people's ears. Sadly, reactionary knee-jerk populism generally proves effective.

[sturginho]

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

Also, calling for it for someone who was still a minor when the crime was committed. How young do they want to kill people? 17? 16? 15? 14?

They think Battle Royale is a sensible policy not political satire

[Blackmac]

Of course they should have. But this is Britain. We're skint, disorganised and terrible at dealing with mental health issues. Bugger-all chance either of these attacks could have been foreseen, communicated to the right authority and managed "with padded cells". I don't think Japan or Norway would have more success either.

Shit just happens when nutters are around.

All these Tory Voters baying for blood seem to forget they voted for "Care in the Community" and closure of specialised facilities

As dumb as Trump voters sometimes

From what I've read, this lad is bad not mad.

[Hal Jordan]

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

Also, calling for it for someone who was still a minor when the crime was committed. How young do they want to kill people? 17? 16? 15? 14?

Depends what colour they are, I suspect.

[Deepsouth]

I know it isnt politically correct, but jeez I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the new arrivals don't exactly love us...

[inactionman]

It's only a small aggregating feature, but just seems on-point for Musk

Internet regulator speaks out over Sydney video viewed by Southport killer that X fought to keep online

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ler-ntwnfb

[sturginho]

Of course they should have. But this is Britain. We're skint, disorganised and terrible at dealing with mental health issues. Bugger-all chance either of these attacks could have been foreseen, communicated to the right authority and managed "with padded cells". I don't think Japan or Norway would have more success either.

Shit just happens when nutters are around.

All these Tory Voters baying for blood seem to forget they voted for "Care in the Community" and closure of specialised facilities

As dumb as Trump voters sometimes

From what I've read, this lad is bad not mad.

it's not possible to be both?

[Rhubarb & Custard]

It's worrying that the likes of reform do seem to have people's ears. Sadly, reactionary knee-jerk populism generally proves effective.

Farage has had a long time piece of thinking to go after restoring gun rights and capital punishment to keep his career in grifting going, really just back-up plans in case Brexit ever actually happened and that bit of opportunism was removed from the board

[C69]

They're calling for the death penalty to be reinstated in 'exceptional circumstances' - whilst I appreciate this was a particularly horrific crime, my noddy understanding of law and constitution is that 'hard cases make bad law'.

Also, calling for it for someone who was still a minor when the crime was committed. How young do they want to kill people? 17? 16? 15? 14?

Depends what colour they are, I suspect.

This x 100000000

[SaintK]

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

I suspect 30p has the same depth of understanding about the death penalty as Braverman.

That's Priti Patel who is as equally thick and stupid as Braverman
James Hanratty and Derek Bemtley say fuck off to all of those calling for the reinstatement of capital punishment
Cunts like Anderson and Lowe would happily see innocent people hung for a handful more votes . Utter scumbags.

[Blackmac]

All these Tory Voters baying for blood seem to forget they voted for "Care in the Community" and closure of specialised facilities

As dumb as Trump voters sometimes

From what I've read, this lad is bad not mad.

it's not possible to be both?

It can, but not in this case. He will have been assessed to within an inch of his life.

[dpedin]

From what I've read, this lad is bad not mad.

it's not possible to be both?

It can, but not in this case. He will have been assessed to within an inch of his life.

I am not sure he will have had a full psychiatric assessment and diagnosis. However by definition what he did would suggest he has significant mental health issues? There is a history of mental health problems I believe and he has to have some form of psychopathy to do what he did and behave how he did afterwards. No mentally healthy person could even contemplate doing what he did. I strongly suspect he will end up in Broadmoor shortly for a period of assessment, found to be exhibiting physcopathic tendencies/severe personality disorders and detained for the rest of his life given his danger to the general public. He will be locked up for life somewhere!

[dpedin]

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

I suspect 30p has the same depth of understanding about the death penalty as Braverman.

That's Priti Patel who is as equally thick and stupid as Braverman
James Hanratty and Derek Bemtley say fuck off to all of those calling for the reinstatement of capital punishment
Cunts like Anderson and Lowe would happily see innocent people hung for a handful more votes . Utter scumbags.

My mistake!

[Blackmac]

it's not possible to be both?

It can, but not in this case. He will have been assessed to within an inch of his life.

I am not sure he will have had a full psychiatric assessment and diagnosis. However by definition what he did would suggest he has significant mental health issues? There is a history of mental health problems I believe and he has to have some form of psychopathy to do what he did and behave how he did afterwards. No mentally healthy person could even contemplate doing what he did. I strongly suspect he will end up in Broadmoor shortly for a period of assessment, found to be exhibiting physcopathic tendencies/severe personality disorders and detained for the rest of his life given his danger to the general public. He will be locked up for life somewhere!

He will certainly have had full psychiatric assessments, as that was the card his defence played. He would have been assessed by both prosecution and defence and deemed fit at the time of the crime and fit to stand trial.

I've seen numerous highly qualified arguments against this belief that people who commit grave crimes must be suffering from mental health problems. Some people are just evil pricks whilst essentially being perfectly sane.

[Tichtheid]

It can, but not in this case. He will have been assessed to within an inch of his life.

I am not sure he will have had a full psychiatric assessment and diagnosis. However by definition what he did would suggest he has significant mental health issues? There is a history of mental health problems I believe and he has to have some form of psychopathy to do what he did and behave how he did afterwards. No mentally healthy person could even contemplate doing what he did. I strongly suspect he will end up in Broadmoor shortly for a period of assessment, found to be exhibiting physcopathic tendencies/severe personality disorders and detained for the rest of his life given his danger to the general public. He will be locked up for life somewhere!

He will certainly have had full psychiatric assessments, as that was the card his defence played. He would have been assessed by both prosecution and defence and deemed fit at the time of the crime and fit to stand trial.

I've seen numerous highly qualified arguments against this belief that people who commit grave crimes must be suffering from mental health problems. Some people are just evil pricks whilst essentially being perfectly sane.

To an extent I agree with this last bit, but isn't that what makes them what used to be called sociopaths, ie lacking entirely in empathy whilst being seemingly able to go about their daily business?

[JM2K6]

I know it isnt politically correct, but jeez I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the new arrivals don't exactly love us...

Are you talking about people new to the board who are simply reacting to you the same as everyone else, or referring to the killer, born and raised in the UK, whose own parents raised concerns about his unhealthy obsession with violence?

Referring to him as a "new arrival" isn't just wrong, it's missing the point spectacularly. He wasn't radicalised in the same way as a terrorist or manifesto-writing school shooter. By all accounts it was the violence & death itself that he was obsessed with.

[sockwithaticket]

Completely sane definitely seems like the wrong choice of words. He might not be in the midst of full blown psychosis or mania, but being willing not just to think about perpetrating, but actually carry through random acts of lethal violence against complete strangers is an extreme outlier in the parameters of normal human behaviour.

He may be cogent and capable of at least discerning what society at large considers to be right and wrong, but there's clearly something not right with his wiring.

Not that any of that diminishes the need to lock him up. He's clearly a colossal danger to society.

[sockwithaticket]

Predictably, Reform MPs calling for the death penalty

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

I suspect 30p has the same depth of understanding about the death penalty as Braverman.

Patel really is a complete and utter fucking moron.

[Tichtheid]

I'd like to know how bringing back the death penalty will make my kids safer, I'm sure 30p Lee can explain it to me, he seems like an articulate chap

I suspect 30p has the same depth of understanding about the death penalty as Braverman.

Patel really is a complete and utter fucking moron.

I've looked into this a couple of times and the countries where recidivism is lowest is in the liberal, seemingly "soft" places where sentences are often considered lenient. By contrast the highest rates of murder and serious crime recidivism is in places that carry the death penalty.

This is the result of the first Google on US states with and without death penalty, https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and- ... lty-states


As the panelist says at the end of the QT clip, the death penalty is about revenge, it's not about justice or deterrence

[Guy Smiley]

I've seen numerous highly qualified arguments against this belief that people who commit grave crimes must be suffering from mental health problems. Some people are just evil pricks whilst essentially being perfectly sane.

To an extent I agree with this last bit, but isn't that what makes them what used to be called sociopaths, ie lacking entirely in empathy whilst being seemingly able to go about their daily business?

Most mental health issues fall somewhere along a spectrum, or line of impact. It's never a simple black or white issue, regardless of the desire by some to make it so. Sociopathic tendencies, for instance, can be exhibited by those in business or politics as they pursue their chosen agenda, yet the general consensus would be that they are not insane or sociopaths. It seems there's some sort of bias that runs alongside any consideration of mental health that connects with the subject's profession or place in society.

[mat the expat]

I thought most were closed in the 50s and 60s? A lot of governments since then to identify and correct the problem?

There will always be people who can link an event to Tory voters & thatcher , including ex pats

Considering my entire family work(ed) in the system all through the 80s and 90s, what would I know hey?

Who was in power predominantly then?

[Yeeb]

I thought most were closed in the 50s and 60s? A lot of governments since then to identify and correct the problem?

There will always be people who can link an event to Tory voters & thatcher , including ex pats

Considering my entire family work(ed) in the system all through the 80s and 90s, what would I know hey?

Who was in power predominantly then?

Someone who clearly annoyed you enough to want to blame for events starting 30 years before they got in, and 34 years and counting since they left power.

But hey, your entire family …

[mat the expat]

There will always be people who can link an event to Tory voters & thatcher , including ex pats

Considering my entire family work(ed) in the system all through the 80s and 90s, what would I know hey?

Who was in power predominantly then?

Someone who clearly annoyed you enough to want to blame for events starting 30 years before they got in, and 34 years and counting since they left power.

But hey, your entire family …

Ah, facts-man.

Hilarious, if unintelligible

[sefton]

Badenoch was at it this morning claiming integration was the cause of the murders but was unable to supply one piece of evidence for this, what a vile creature.

[SaintK]

Badenoch was at it this morning claiming integration was the cause of the murders but was unable to supply one piece of evidence for this, what a vile creature.

Yep!!! Even if the judge in the case didn't. It just suits her narrative.

Badenoch has pointed to social integration as a factor in Axel Rudakubana’s stabbing attack at a Taylor Swift dance class.

But the topic of integration was absent from Mr Justice Goose’s decision to hand Rudakubana a 52-year prison sentence.

Instead, the judge focused on the evidence needed to prove an act of terrorism and arrived at the conclusion that although extremely violent, the stabbings did not satisfy the legal test required for a terrorist act.

“In his home the police discovered clear evidence of a settled intention to carry out mass killing,” he said. “On one of his computers were files proving that he had a longstanding preoccupation with violent killing and genocide.”

[tabascoboy]

Badenoch was at it this morning claiming integration was the cause of the murders but was unable to supply one piece of evidence for this, what a vile creature.

I guess that the sign of being properly "integrated" is limiting oneself to crimes such as hacking

Kemi Badenoch admitted that she hacked Harriet Harman’s website in 2008.

Badenoch confessed to the hack, which carried a jail sentence of up to five years at the time she acted, in response to a question about the “naughtiest” thing she had done.

[Biffer]

Considering my entire family work(ed) in the system all through the 80s and 90s, what would I know hey?

Who was in power predominantly then?

Someone who clearly annoyed you enough to want to blame for events starting 30 years before they got in, and 34 years and counting since they left power.

But hey, your entire family …

Ah, facts-man.

Hilarious, if unintelligible

Just stick the cunt on ignore, it makes your life better.

[Yeeb]

Someone who clearly annoyed you enough to want to blame for events starting 30 years before they got in, and 34 years and counting since they left power.

But hey, your entire family …

Ah, facts-man.

Hilarious, if unintelligible

Just stick the cunt on ignore, it makes your life better.

Names again ? Tut tut old boy - but pot & kettle