The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[inactionman]

Prendergast's defence is even more comically inept than Sir Charles of Hodgson's

[C T]

Exactly this, I watched him most of the game and they just couldn't handle his range of passing and he was actually much more involved than normal.

In the last couple of minutes after IrnDhu's try, Finn was looking so comfortable I thought for sure we were going to get another try and win.

We got held up and bundled into touch of course, but there you go.

He was, by far, the better flyhalf on the pitch. Just not off the tee.

Some outlets just have an agenda here. It's between Finn and Prendergast. I can see a case for either.

Farrell has an opportunity to give Prendergast a boost, a player who will be crucial to Ireland for years to come. First test Prendergast to start with Finn on the bench I reckon.

Thankyou Mystic Meg. You got the lottery numbers for next week?

I'd be quite happy to just pick a winning team on the predictions thread.

[Jock42]

Coming back to domestic action this weekend, I've reached the point, as I did last year, where I can't bring myself to watch Edinburgh and only watch a re-run if the score looks enticing. I only have ten fingers and that's not enough to block out the horror that is Edinburgh Rugby at the moment.

Away to Munster has seldom been anything other than a right doing and I can't see that change on Friday. I'm away all day Saturday to support my local club, so I would have preferred the entertainment of watching Glasgow on a Friday night

I'll watch live with (hopefully) zero expectations. I'm scunnered that Everitt is still in post after Zebre but don't imagine Nucifora will accept many more failures.

[sockwithaticket]

Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.

Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.

I saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.

Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.

It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.

Certainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%

He's also only 77% in the Premiership so far this season, obviously much better than he's managed in the 6N so far, but still not what you want from a frontline, elite kicker.

That will definitely hurt his Lions chances, even if he may still be the best option. There aren't many non-flyhalves in the British & Irish teams who do goal kicking, Kinghorn might be the only one and he barely kicks for Toulouse (7/12 so far this season apparently), so that responsibility would fall on whoever's playing 10. It would be a huge call to start Lions tests with a kicker whose boot form is dodgy.

[charltom]

Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.

Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.

I saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.

Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.

It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.

Certainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%

He's also only 77% in the Premiership so far this season, obviously much better than he's managed in the 6N so far, but still not what you want from a frontline, elite kicker.

That will definitely hurt his Lions chances, even if he may still be the best option. There aren't many non-flyhalves in the British & Irish teams who do goal kicking, Kinghorn might be the only one and he barely kicks for Toulouse (7/12 so far this season apparently), so that responsibility would fall on whoever's playing 10. It would be a huge call to start Lions tests with a kicker whose boot form is dodgy.

George Horne for Lions 9 then!

[Tichtheid]

Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.

Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.

I saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.

Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.

It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.

Certainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%

He's also only 77% in the Premiership so far this season, obviously much better than he's managed in the 6N so far, but still not what you want from a frontline, elite kicker.

That will definitely hurt his Lions chances, even if he may still be the best option. There aren't many non-flyhalves in the British & Irish teams who do goal kicking, Kinghorn might be the only one and he barely kicks for Toulouse (7/12 so far this season apparently), so that responsibility would fall on whoever's playing 10. It would be a huge call to start Lions tests with a kicker whose boot form is dodgy.

Finn's the top points scorer and top goal kicker in the premiership, in his last year in the Top 14 he came second in total points kicked. When I last looked that up during that season he was waaaay in front of in terms of percentages but I can't find that particular stat at the moment.

Last 6N he was the top kicker at over 95% success rate. He got five from five against South Africa in November but not so good against Australia - this is what Rugby Pass wrote in the ratings - "Having landed 27 of his last 28 kicks at goal for Scotland, only landed three from six here, but still the leading man."

Russell always seems the least phased player on the park, he's having a bout of the yips at the moment* but I'd rather have him than anyone else at 10 for the Lions.

*if you count missing from the touchline as a bout of the yips.

[inactionman]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

[SaintK]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

His line kicking in the Prem has been indifferent this season as well.
That said I'll have him travel as 1st choice 10 with the Lions, interesting to see who else Farrell comes up with in that position. Who he chooses as attack coach may have an important say on who starts the first test mind you. Fortunately for all it won't be a current Englaand coach!!!!

[Tichtheid]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

As I say, he's the top goal kicker in the league. PR has this

Finn Russell has become deadly accurate off the tee in recent seasons both for club and country. Last Six Nations, he boasted an impressive 95.7% success rate, converting 22 of his 23 attempts – the best success rate of any player to make more than five shots at goal.

For Bath this season, his Premiership success rate has dropped to 77.42% but in the Champions Cup he has succeeded with 92.31% of his 13 attempts, missing just once.

I think overall Prendergast has something like 8 percentage points over him, that's one in twelve kicks.

I really like Prendergast, I think he is going to be very very good.

[Slick]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

His line kicking in the Prem has been indifferent this season as well.
That said I'll have him travel as 1st choice 10 with the Lions, interesting to see who else Farrell comes up with in that position. Who he chooses as attack coach may have an important say on who starts the first test mind you. Fortunately for all it won't be a current Englaand coach!!!!

His line kicks on Saturday were coming up very short. He's obviously going through a bit of a blip but I'm sure will recover.

I said a few weeks ago that I think the 3 10's will be him, Prendergast and Fin Smith, in that order

[inactionman]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

As I say, he's the top goal kicker in the league. PR has this

Finn Russell has become deadly accurate off the tee in recent seasons both for club and country. Last Six Nations, he boasted an impressive 95.7% success rate, converting 22 of his 23 attempts – the best success rate of any player to make more than five shots at goal.

For Bath this season, his Premiership success rate has dropped to 77.42% but in the Champions Cup he has succeeded with 92.31% of his 13 attempts, missing just once.

I think overall Prendergast has something like 8 percentage points over him, that's one in twelve kicks.

I really like Prendergast, I think he is going to be very very good.

Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless. He's kicked 5 penalties in total, the second lowest in the league -the rest are all conversions.

He's missed some relatively easy kicks both off the tee and from penalties to touch - his kicking from hand in general paly has been solid though. All a bit inconsistent.
Prendergast's tactical kicking was excellent against Scotland, everything was contestable and very accurate.

[Tichtheid]

Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.

Glasgow's kickers are usually very low in term of penalties scored because they very seldom go for the posts - their game plan is different to teams that take the points, perhaps Bath are similar?

There seems to be a move to discredit Russell on the back of kicking stats, but I think he is still the best option for the Lions because the other parts of his game, the parts where he leaves everyone else for dead, these are still in place, at international level at least. I say that last part because I don't have a TNT subscription any more so haven't watched the GP.

[charltom]

Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.

Well not completely. This was the first time he's missed all his kicks.

[inactionman]

Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.

Glasgow's kickers are usually very low in term of penalties scored because they very seldom go for the posts - their game plan is different to teams that take the points, perhaps Bath are similar?

There seems to be a move to discredit Russell on the back of kicking stats, but I think he is still the best option for the Lions because the other parts of his game, the parts where he leaves everyone else for dead, these are still in place, at international level at least. I say that last part because I don't have a TNT subscription any more so haven't watched the GP.

With the best will in the world, you're raising stats - I've just responded to say his kicking is not as rosy as you might think. I've watched - where possible - pretty much every Bath game for many years and in the couple of seasons he's been at the Rec he has had some very bad days with the boot*, missing pretty regulation penalties and more significantly missing some key touchfinders. So much so that Spencer has taken on kicking - which isn't as bad as it sounds, as he's a useful left foot option and he's a very good kicker in his own right, but it's not what you expect from a front line kicker.

I'd think Russell is still easily starting 10 for the Lions, his vision, speed of thought, distribution, ability to take to the line and put people through gaps, level-headedness under pressure, there's so many parts of his game that are truly class-leading. He's done all this for many years. That's what we want from a 10. He's not a great kicker, let someone else kick if we need to.


* as a a complete aside, the worst kicker I've seen live at the Rec was Butch James, so much so that we had to try to win with tries as he'd miss sitters from the 22. I'd had him marked down as a cheap shot hacker but he was actually a very talented playmaker who was great fun to watch. I'd rather they can do that than just kick. I'm definitely Stuart Barnes over Rob Andrew.

[dpedin]

Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.

Glasgow's kickers are usually very low in term of penalties scored because they very seldom go for the posts - their game plan is different to teams that take the points, perhaps Bath are similar?

There seems to be a move to discredit Russell on the back of kicking stats, but I think he is still the best option for the Lions because the other parts of his game, the parts where he leaves everyone else for dead, these are still in place, at international level at least. I say that last part because I don't have a TNT subscription any more so haven't watched the GP.

With the best will in the world, you're raising stats - I've just responded to say his kicking is not as rosy as you might think. I've watched - where possible - pretty much every Bath game for many years and in the couple of seasons he's been at the Rec he has had some very bad days with the boot*, missing pretty regulation penalties and more significantly missing some key touchfinders. So much so that Spencer has taken on kicking - which isn't as bad as it sounds, as he's a useful left foot option and he's a very good kicker in his own right, but it's not what you expect from a front line kicker.

* as a a complete aside, the worst kicker I've seen live at the Rec was Butch James, so much so that we had to try to win with tries as he'd miss sitters from the 22. I'd had him marked down as a cheap shot hacker but he was actually a very talented playmaker who was great fun to watch. I'd rather they can do that than just kick. I'm definitely Stuart Barnes over Rob Andrew.

I'd think Russell is still easily starting 10 for the Lions, his vision, speed of thought, distribution, ability to take to the line and put people through gaps, level-headedness under pressure, there's so many parts of his game that are truly class-leading. He's done all this for many years. That's what we want from a 10. He's not a great kicker, let someone else kick if we need to.

Russell is the best 10 the Lions have available and must start! I dont get all the emphasis on the 10 kicking, if there are better penalty takers in the team then use them. For example Kinghorn is often used as first choice kicker with Toulouse when playing at wing/FB - ditto Ramos who is also first choice for France. Marcus Smith was doing the kicking for England from FB, albeit badly and Slade often takes penalties to touch with his big left boot! For the Lions assuming we have Gibson-Park at 9 and Kinghorn at 15 then there are plenty of other options if Finn is having a bad day!

[Sandstorm]

For the Lions assuming we have Gibson-Park at 9 and Kinghorn at 15 then there are plenty of other options if Finn is having a bad day!

Daly at 15 surely?

[KingBlairhorn]

For the Lions assuming we have Gibson-Park at 9 and Kinghorn at 15 then there are plenty of other options if Finn is having a bad day!

Daly at 15 surely?

It will 100% be Keenan at FB.

[Yr Alban]

Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.

[dkm57]

Wouldn't let Daley on the plane. Keenan at 15, Lowe and VdM wings, Gibson-Park 9, Fin R 10, centres are a toss up so many really class options, 13 depends on who you have at 12. Basically it's a Scotland/Ireland backline with an Irish/English tight 5 maybe Zander in the front row and the odd Scot in the back row if you really wanted to piss the Aussies off then Currie and Ritche at 7 and 6 would be fun. Kinghorn as one of the 2 backs on the bench covering 10/11/14/15.

Just my very fallible take of course

[Sandstorm]

Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.

Saffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.

[SaintK]

For the Lions assuming we have Gibson-Park at 9 and Kinghorn at 15 then there are plenty of other options if Finn is having a bad day!

Daly at 15 surely?

It will 100% be Keenan at FB.

This
Kinghorn on bench as he can cover 3 or even 4 positions
Daly won't be touring even though he's been playing oustandingly for Saracens this season.
Furlong a longshot if he gets some decent game time after breaking his arm. Can cover 10 as well.

[SaintK]

Wouldn't let Daley on the plane. Keenan at 15, Lowe and VdM wings, Gibson-Park 9, Fin R 10, centres are a toss up so many really class options, 13 depends on who you have at 12. Basically it's a Scotland/Ireland backline with an Irish/English tight 5 maybe Zander in the front row and the odd Scot in the back row if you really wanted to piss the Aussies off then Currie and Ritche at 7 and 6 would be fun. Kinghorn as one of the 2 backs on the bench covering 10/11/14/15.

Just my very fallible take of course

Jac Morgan says bugger off!!!!
Will Stuart is probably the best (and most improved) TH in the 6N at the moment and must be in with a good shout to tour especially as Furlong seems to be perma crocked

[Paddington Bear]

Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.

Saffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.

Honestly it is at least in part the incongruous nature of the surnames. England always took more shit when Mauritz Botha played than Brad Barritt

[Tichtheid]

!
Will Stuart is probably the best (and most improved) TH in the 6N at the moment and must be in with a good shout to tour especially as Furlong seems to be perma crocked

To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.

Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.

[Tichtheid]

With the best will in the world, you're raising stats

I did and it was to counter the idea that Russell is flaky or "mercurial" or a "maverick" which we see in the press. His kicking has been excellent and consistent for long periods. Even the likes of Ramos who some think of as the best in the world has dry periods from the boot.

[Tichtheid]

Your Edinburgh team to play Munster tomorrow evening;

Oh, who gives a fuck? They're only going to get hammered anyway

I can't be arsed posting the team.

[SaintK]

!
Will Stuart is probably the best (and most improved) TH in the 6N at the moment and must be in with a good shout to tour especially as Furlong seems to be perma crocked

To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.

Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.

I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum

[Tichtheid]

!
Will Stuart is probably the best (and most improved) TH in the 6N at the moment and must be in with a good shout to tour especially as Furlong seems to be perma crocked

To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.

Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.

I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum

I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday

According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams

[SaintK]

To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.

Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.

I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum

I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday

According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams

Ahh, that ref again!
As I say I'm no expert but am very happy that Stuart appears to improved.

[Tichtheid]

Ahh, that ref again!

Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.

Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.

Both of these were in England's 22

I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.

It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.

[Yr Alban]

Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.

Saffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.

Honestly it is at least in part the incongruous nature of the surnames. England always took more shit when Mauritz Botha played than Brad Barritt

I reckon you are on to something here. I didn’t even realise Finlay Bealham was imported from Australia until this morning, when English mentioned his name in the discussion. But the name doesn’t stand out as ‘not Irish’ (Scottish if anything!) so he can go under the radar. Even CJ Stander had a neutral name. But with Schoeman, Tuipulotu and Van der Merwe, you know they probably didn’t grow up in Scotland (although Oguntibeju actually did).

[inactionman]

Ahh, that ref again!

Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.

Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.

Both of these were in England's 22

I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.

It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.

The Itoje one was ridiculous. Even if the fact both his feet were dangling wasn't enough, he put hands into the ruck after it was formed. He didn't really try to lift as he knew it was blatant, he was just trying to slow it down.

It worked both ways though, Jamie Ritchie got a penalty for holding on when all he had a grasp of was the tackled player's midriff. Just nowhere near lifting or effecting a turnover.

The most egregious I've seen in a Calcutta Cup match was my first one whilst living in Scotland - 2018. Gold old Nige let Barclay and Watson do press-ups over the ball. All a bit baffling, but refs will see things in a given way

[SaintK]

Ahh, that ref again!

Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.

Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.

Both of these were in England's 22

I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.

It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.

I was referring to the scrummaging.

[Tichtheid]

Ahh, that ref again!

Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.

Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.

Both of these were in England's 22

I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.

It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.

I was referring to the scrummaging.

So was I initially when I was talking about Genge and Stuart v Fagerson and Schoeman, but the "Ahh, that ref again!" response came across as an eye-rolling one that dismissed what I had said about the scrummaging. So I gave the two most obvious mistakes as examples to start from because as I said, it was part and parcel of the game for us on Saturday.

[SaintK]

Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.

Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.

Both of these were in England's 22

I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.

It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.

I was referring to the scrummaging.

So was I initially when I was talking about Genge and Stuart v Fagerson and Schoeman, but the "Ahh, that ref again!" response came across as an eye-rolling one that dismissed what I had said about the scrummaging. So I gave the two most obvious mistakes as examples to start from because as I said, it was part and parcel of the game for us on Saturday.

I’m sure that with the moniker Tichtheid you study scrummaging closely

[SomersetJock]

I hate to moan about officials, but after the France game at Murrayfield last year I decided it would be my last 6N trip. I have no problem with Scotland losing, I’ve seen it often enough for it to be water off a ducks back. But I’ve seen these absolutely bizarre officials decisions too many times now for it to be laughed off anymore, and I would rather spend my money going elsewhere from here on in.

[Blackmac]

To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.

Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.

I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum

I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday

According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams

Peter Wright was absolutely fuming about the two scrum penalties and the early engagement free kicks. Having watched it for the first time I would agree. Scotland clearly had the nudge when Stuart stood up. 99 times out of 100 that's our penalty but not with this clown.

[C T]

I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum

I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday

According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams

Peter Wright was absolutely fuming about the two scrum penalties and the early engagement free kicks. Having watched it for the first time I would agree. Scotland clearly had the nudge when Stuart stood up. 99 times out of 100 that's our penalty but not with this clown.

I just don't know what to say about it. We've got:

The scrum penalties (Fine, always seem a lottery)
The England try (Fine, he thought it was down)
Ignoring the "check check" from the TOM after the try (Fine, decisive)
The Itoji handstand after ruck formed but play on thing (Fine... actually I've no idea why)
The Curry hands on the ground before grabbing the ball (Fine, these kind of calls happen during any game. As mentioned above, Richie won a dubious one too)
Moving Russell closer to the touch line than the try was scored (Fine, he just thought that was where the try was scored)

But all of them in one game?

All games have some contentious decisions. Us vs Aus in the WC quarters, us vs France last year. Any team can name a couple, they feel more one off things. Genuine the ref is doing their best, there is probably 10 illegal things going on at any moment kind of things.

But say anything about Saturday's ref performance and it's whining about the ref and we should have taken our chances. Fine, I don't have a huge problem with that. Finn should have got that conversion for the White try at least, we should have taken another of our many try scoring chances. But I can believe all of that and think that the ref was shite and mainly in Englands favour.

[Biffer]

Ignoring the check check is against the published TMO protocol.

He's more likely to get pulled up for that than anything else.

[AF73]

When even Nigel Owens.....on World Rugby's own youtube channel cannot defend their own referee and says the moving of the conversion and the Itoje turnover were incorrect decisions by the Ref.....