What's going on in Ukraine?

[PornDog]

I don’t understand how these billionaires who support Trump will still be rich when the US economy shrinks and millions of people lose their jobs. The stock market will drop and so will the value of their stock profiles. What am I missing?

Shock doctrine/disaster capitalism - chaos is an opportunity. The economic elite may lose some money in the short term, but they will still be incredibly wealthy. Tens or hundreds of billions of dollars is a level of wealth that someone would have to actively attempt to disburse and even then it would take a while, it's an obscene amount that we peons have little reference for.

Speaking of peons, regular folk will be orders of magnitude worse off and that's when those with wealth swoop in and accrue more assets, strip away more worker protections, strong arm mergers etc.

I can't get my head around the more more more more attitude of billionaires.

When I speak to my wife about this she just shrugs her shoulders and says billionaires love money, and I'm always saying I know, but what are they going to do with 550 billion that they can't get with 500 billion. I just don't get it.

TBF, not all billionaires are the same. Say what you want about Buffet, Soros and Gates (and many do about the latter two at least), but they've given away huge amounts of their wealth. Countless millionaires do the same.

Steve Jobs on the other hand was philosophically opposed to charity and never donated so much as a cent. Bezos does fuck all as well.

Of course not all philanthropy is equal, The Koch Brothers are big supporters of PBS and Old Pedo Guy has done philanthropic work before as well - still massive cunts though!

[sockwithaticket]

Shock doctrine/disaster capitalism - chaos is an opportunity. The economic elite may lose some money in the short term, but they will still be incredibly wealthy. Tens or hundreds of billions of dollars is a level of wealth that someone would have to actively attempt to disburse and even then it would take a while, it's an obscene amount that we peons have little reference for.

Speaking of peons, regular folk will be orders of magnitude worse off and that's when those with wealth swoop in and accrue more assets, strip away more worker protections, strong arm mergers etc.

I can't get my head around the more more more more attitude of billionaires.

When I speak to my wife about this she just shrugs her shoulders and says billionaires love money, and I'm always saying I know, but what are they going to do with 550 billion that they can't get with 500 billion. I just don't get it.

TBF, not all billionaires are the same. Say what you want about Buffet, Soros and Gates (and many do about the latter two at least), but they've given away huge amounts of their wealth. Countless millionaires do the same.

Steve Jobs on the other hand was philosophically opposed to charity and never donated so much as a cent. Bezos does fuck all as well.

Of course not all philanthropy is equal, The Koch Brothers are big supporters of PBS and Old Pedo Guy has done philanthropic work before as well - still massive cunts though!

They could give a good deal more and still be generationally wealthy.

There is no such thing as a good billionaire, just less awful. To accrue that amount of money requires exploitation somewhere along the line, Gates and Buffet are no exceptions even if they're not as evil as the Kochs or Musks of this world.

[sockwithaticket]

I don’t understand how these billionaires who support Trump will still be rich when the US economy shrinks and millions of people lose their jobs. The stock market will drop and so will the value of their stock profiles. What am I missing?

Shock doctrine/disaster capitalism - chaos is an opportunity. The economic elite may lose some money in the short term, but they will still be incredibly wealthy. Tens or hundreds of billions of dollars is a level of wealth that someone would have to actively attempt to disburse and even then it would take a while, it's an obscene amount that we peons have little reference for.

Speaking of peons, regular folk will be orders of magnitude worse off and that's when those with wealth swoop in and accrue more assets, strip away more worker protections, strong arm mergers etc.

I can't get my head around the more more more more attitude of billionaires.

When I speak to my wife about this she just shrugs her shoulders and says billionaires love money, and I'm always saying I know, but what are they going to do with 550 billion that they can't get with 500 billion. I just don't get it.

They're simply broken people. Whether it's sociopathy, borderline personality disorder or whatever, by some quirk of fate that lack of care for others has been allied to serious drive and intellect.

They're also often a heady mixture of deeply insecure and competitive which is why having more wealth than entire nations and that several generations of their families couldn't spend gets turned into a pissing contest of who has the greatest number of billions.

[Paddington Bear]

Shock doctrine/disaster capitalism - chaos is an opportunity. The economic elite may lose some money in the short term, but they will still be incredibly wealthy. Tens or hundreds of billions of dollars is a level of wealth that someone would have to actively attempt to disburse and even then it would take a while, it's an obscene amount that we peons have little reference for.

Speaking of peons, regular folk will be orders of magnitude worse off and that's when those with wealth swoop in and accrue more assets, strip away more worker protections, strong arm mergers etc.

I can't get my head around the more more more more attitude of billionaires.

When I speak to my wife about this she just shrugs her shoulders and says billionaires love money, and I'm always saying I know, but what are they going to do with 550 billion that they can't get with 500 billion. I just don't get it.

They're simply broken people. Whether it's sociopathy, borderline personality disorder or whatever, by some quirk of fate that lack of care for others has been allied to serious drive and intellect.

They're also often a heady mixture of deeply insecure and competitive which is why having more wealth than entire nations and that several generations of their families couldn't spend gets turned into a pissing contest of who has the greatest number of billions.

Power is a hell of a drug and that sort of money gives you a hell of a lot of it

[Hellraiser]

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched your conversation with President Volodymyr Zelensky with fear and distaste. It is insulting that you expect Ukraine to show gratitude for U.S. material aid in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who have been shedding their blood for over 11 years to defend the free world’s values and their homeland, attacked by Putin’s russia.

How can the leader of a country symbolizing the free world fail to recognize this?

The Oval Office atmosphere during this conversation reminded us of interrogations by the Security Services and Communist court debates. Back then, prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the communist political police, told us they held all the power while we had none. They demanded we stop our activities, arguing that innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms for refusing to cooperate or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Zelensky was treated similarly.

History shows that when the U.S. distanced itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately endangered itself. President Wilson understood this in 1917 when the U.S. joined World War I. President Roosevelt knew it after Pearl Harbor in 1941, realizing that defending America meant fighting in both the Pacific and Europe alongside nations attacked by the Third Reich.

Without President Reagan and U.S. financial support, the Soviet empire’s collapse would not have been possible. Reagan recognized the suffering of millions in Soviet russia and its conquered nations, including thousands of political prisoners. His greatness lay in his unwavering stance, calling the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and confronting it decisively. We won, and today, his statue stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, military and financial aid cannot be equated with the blood shed for Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the world. Human life is priceless. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and freedom — something self-evident to us, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.

We urge the U.S. to uphold the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s borders in exchange for giving up nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional — nowhere do they suggest such aid is a mere economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland

[Sandstorm]

Your Excellency, Mr. President,

We watched your conversation with President Volodymyr Zelensky with fear and distaste. It is insulting that you expect Ukraine to show gratitude for U.S. material aid in its fight against russia. Gratitude is owed to the heroic Ukrainian soldiers who have been shedding their blood for over 11 years to defend the free world’s values and their homeland, attacked by Putin’s russia.

How can the leader of a country symbolizing the free world fail to recognize this?

The Oval Office atmosphere during this conversation reminded us of interrogations by the Security Services and Communist court debates. Back then, prosecutors and judges, acting on behalf of the communist political police, told us they held all the power while we had none. They demanded we stop our activities, arguing that innocent people suffered because of us. They stripped us of our freedoms for refusing to cooperate or express gratitude for our oppression. We are shocked that President Zelensky was treated similarly.

History shows that when the U.S. distanced itself from democratic values and its European allies, it ultimately endangered itself. President Wilson understood this in 1917 when the U.S. joined World War I. President Roosevelt knew it after Pearl Harbor in 1941, realizing that defending America meant fighting in both the Pacific and Europe alongside nations attacked by the Third Reich.

Without President Reagan and U.S. financial support, the Soviet empire’s collapse would not have been possible. Reagan recognized the suffering of millions in Soviet russia and its conquered nations, including thousands of political prisoners. His greatness lay in his unwavering stance, calling the USSR an “Empire of Evil” and confronting it decisively. We won, and today, his statue stands in Warsaw, facing the U.S. Embassy.

Mr. President, military and financial aid cannot be equated with the blood shed for Ukraine’s independence and the freedom of Europe and the world. Human life is priceless. Gratitude is due to those who sacrifice their blood and freedom — something self-evident to us, former political prisoners of the communist regime under Soviet russia.

We urge the U.S. to uphold the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which established a direct obligation to defend Ukraine’s borders in exchange for giving up nuclear weapons. These guarantees are unconditional — nowhere do they suggest such aid is a mere economic transaction.

Signed,

Lech Wałęsa, former political prisoner, President of Poland

tl;dr

[Flockwitt]

I think we need a new acroym for this one... too long; can't read.

[sockwithaticket]

That's a very eloquent, very poignant letter. The people who need to hear it are immune to concepts such as honour, duty and idealism unfortunately.

[Biffer]

That's a very eloquent, very poignant letter. The people who need to hear it are immune to concepts such as honour, duty and idealism unfortunately.

I think it’s probably aimed as much at the polish American community. There are eight or nine million of them.

[sockwithaticket]

That's a very eloquent, very poignant letter. The people who need to hear it are immune to concepts such as honour, duty and idealism unfortunately.

I think it’s probably aimed as much at the polish American community. There are eight or nine million of them.

I would've thought that any of them who feel aligned with an openly Russia-fellating Republican party are unreachable.

[Hellraiser]

Eutelsat is negotiating with the EU to expand satellite internet access for Ukraine.

As the company's shares rose, speculation arose that OneWeb satellites could replace Elon Musk's Starlink in Ukraine.

Eutelsat, which owns OneWeb (a competitor to Starlink), said it was "actively collaborating with European institutions and business partners" and was ready to "rapidly deploy equipment in Ukraine to provide critical infrastructure."

The company has 35 geostationary (GEO) satellites and 600 low-orbit (LEO) satellites in OneWeb and claims it can offer similar coverage and latency capabilities to Starlink in Europe.

Pictured: European OneWeb satellites before being installed in the rocket's payload bay.

@yigal_levin

[Guy Smiley]

[Mr Oizo]

I don’t understand how these billionaires who support Trump will still be rich when the US economy shrinks and millions of people lose their jobs. The stock market will drop and so will the value of their stock profiles. What am I missing?

Shock doctrine/disaster capitalism - chaos is an opportunity. The economic elite may lose some money in the short term, but they will still be incredibly wealthy. Tens or hundreds of billions of dollars is a level of wealth that someone would have to actively attempt to disburse and even then it would take a while, it's an obscene amount that we peons have little reference for.

Speaking of peons, regular folk will be orders of magnitude worse off and that's when those with wealth swoop in and accrue more assets, strip away more worker protections, strong arm mergers etc.

I can't get my head around the more more more more attitude of billionaires.

When I speak to my wife about this she just shrugs her shoulders and says billionaires love money, and I'm always saying I know, but what are they going to do with 550 billion that they can't get with 500 billion. I just don't get it.

I was listening to some UK journalist the other day (can’t remember who - helpful I know) who asked this exact question of a US “single digit” billionaire.

His response was basically, in the US money = status and influence. And if you give away your money, you lose your status in direct proportion to what you have given away.

The corollary of this is that they continue to try and hoard more money via increasingly aggressively and morally reprehensible ways. They are caught in the ultimate game of “keeping up with the Joneses”

The scary thing is that the genie is out of the bottle now. The uber billionaires have found a vessel (Trump and the GOP) to wield their influence. If the Democrats want to get back into power - they will need to make deals with these horrific people given the absolute shit show that is funding an election campaign in the US. Absolute race to the bottom, where the general population are unfortunately the rounding number.

[_Os_]

Europe/EU/UK seems to be holding two positions. One is realistic the other is not.

Realistic. Von Der Leyen said Ukraine must become a "steel porcupine" that's impossible to invade. Money seems to be coming for that. What the plan is I do not know. We already know air defence is critical, and the war has shown old fashioned fortifications work very well against an attacker who doesn't have air superiority. They should be fortifying every town and city, Switzerland and Finland the famous "steel porcupines" in Europe both have a lot of underground infrastructure. It would be better to focus on anything that can actually be done inside the next year.

Unrealistic. Europe/UK now realise this is existential and the US has given up. If Russia wins after years of brainwashing about "betrayal" they maybe even turn Ukraine fully, this would mean Russia has a much stronger geographic position, larger military and industrial base. The reaction to this is to offer Ukraine security guarantees if the US backs them, but the US isn't interested. "We'll do this if the US does this" isn't going to work. I suspect it's so unrealistic that Europe/UK will soon be battling for the US to maintain sanctions against Russia.

[Guy Smiley]

Europe/EU/UK seems to be holding two positions. One is realistic the other is not.

Realistic. Von Der Leyen said Ukraine must become a "steel porcupine" that's impossible to invade. Money seems to be coming for that. What the plan is I do not know. We already know air defence is critical, and the war has shown old fashioned fortifications work very well against an attacker who doesn't have air superiority. They should be fortifying every town and city, Switzerland and Finland the famous "steel porcupines" in Europe both have a lot of underground infrastructure. It would be better to focus on anything that can actually be done inside the next year.

Unrealistic. Europe/UK now realise this is existential and the US has given up. If Russia wins after years of brainwashing about "betrayal" they maybe even turn Ukraine fully, this would mean Russia has a much stronger geographic position, larger military and industrial base. The reaction to this is to offer Ukraine security guarantees if the US backs them, but the US isn't interested. "We'll do this if the US does this" isn't going to work. I suspect it's so unrealistic that Europe/UK will soon be battling for the US to maintain sanctions against Russia.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that Poland's Tusk is perhaps the spokesman for a more hawkish Europe, being right in the front line of any expanded hostilities from Russia... but I take a little heart from this simple quote from him over the last few days...

[tabascoboy]

[laurent]

One good reason to stop buying US made weapons.

[Flockwitt]

It’s disgusting. Straight up direct strong arm extortion to force Ukraine to terms of the US’s choosing. Will be the cause of Ukrainians dying. F**k Trump and f**k the horse he rode in on.

[Niegs]

France not waving the white flag! (Reddit seems to autoplay...)

Spoiler

Show

[Guy Smiley]

That is an awesome speech.

[Flockwitt]

Yep, brilliant.

[Yeeb]

France not waving the white flag! (Reddit seems to autoplay...)

Spoiler

Show

Yep, good speech. France really taking a lead here, not just Uk. Amazing what having nukes can do for your backbone. America really has burnt some bridges in such a short time !

[Tichtheid]

I hope the Putin propagandists are reading this;

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

[PornDog]

I hope the Putin propagandists are reading this;

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

Of everything this batshit crazy White House has done over the last few weeks, this has to be the absolute worst. They're essentially trying to depose Zelensky!

[Slick]

Fantastic speech

[Tichtheid]

I hope the Putin propagandists are reading this;

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

Of everything this batshit crazy White House has done over the last few weeks, this has to be the absolute worst. They're essentially trying to depose Zelensky!

The US is no stranger to involvement in regime change, however I don't think they've acted at the behest of the President of Russia before now.

[Biffer]

I hope the Putin propagandists are reading this;

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

Of everything this batshit crazy White House has done over the last few weeks, this has to be the absolute worst. They're essentially trying to depose Zelensky!

This all goes back to Zelensky refusing to provide dirt to Trump on Hunter Biden. That's foremost in Trump's mind.

[Tichtheid]

This all goes back to Zelensky refusing to provide dirt to Trump on Hunter Biden. That's foremost in Trump's mind.

Yeah, that's quite possibly the "reason" behind this.

I was completely wrong about Trump, I thought he'd just be the stupid prick he was last time, this time around he's having a terrible impact on the world. I didn't take into account how many scores he would settle instead of leading his country.

[sockwithaticket]

This all goes back to Zelensky refusing to provide dirt to Trump on Hunter Biden. That's foremost in Trump's mind.

Yeah, that's quite possibly the "reason" behind this.

I was completely wrong about Trump, I thought he'd just be the stupid prick he was last time, this time around he's having a terrible impact on the world. I didn't take into account how many scores he would settle instead of leading his country.

Last time the Republican establishment still had enough of the party, at least at the outset of Trump's term, to essentially impose a cabinet of 'adults in the room' who would stand up to some of his more insane ideas and knew how to work around him. Now the party is totally MAGA-ised his cabinet is Project 2025 zealots who don't care what he gets up to provided he rubber stamps anything to do with their agenda and sycophants who know full well they owe their positions to being his yes men.

[Sandstorm]

This all goes back to Zelensky refusing to provide dirt to Trump on Hunter Biden. That's foremost in Trump's mind.

Yeah, that's quite possibly the "reason" behind this.

I was completely wrong about Trump, I thought he'd just be the stupid prick he was last time, this time around he's having a terrible impact on the world. I didn't take into account how many scores he would settle instead of leading his country.

Last time the Republican establishment still had enough of the party, at least at the outset of Trump's term, to essentially impose a cabinet of 'adults in the room' who would stand up to some of his more insane ideas and knew how to work around him. Now the party is totally MAGA-ised his cabinet is Project 2025 zealots who don't care what he gets up to provided he rubber stamps anything to do with their agenda and sycophants who know full well they owe their positions to being his yes men.

[Yeeb]

This all goes back to Zelensky refusing to provide dirt to Trump on Hunter Biden. That's foremost in Trump's mind.

Yeah, that's quite possibly the "reason" behind this.

I was completely wrong about Trump, I thought he'd just be the stupid prick he was last time, this time around he's having a terrible impact on the world. I didn't take into account how many scores he would settle instead of leading his country.

Don’t think anyone saw him set out to annoy so many allies to the extent he’s done , but on Ukraine it was pretty clear he’d throw them under a bus if they didn’t pay for the pleasure

[Flockwitt]

I thought I would just have to spend the next 4 years tuning out his attempts to own the news cycles... it's like trying to ignore air raid sirens going off outside your house.

[yermum]

Air raid sirens will be going off for real soon enough I think

[Guy Smiley]

I thought I just have spend the next 4 years tuning out his attempts to own the news cycles... it's like trying to ignore air raid sirens going off outside your house.

Looking for the positive in trying circumstances is both inspiring and a potential sign of madness... have you tried imagining a Mr Whippy van instead of the sirens?

I wonder if Trump, Musk and co might be over reaching here and shooting themselves in the collective foot. I watched a clip earlier of the CEO of a sat comms company based in Europe talking about offering Ukraine comms coverage (while one Canadian province has cancelled Starlink's contract) and Europe is mobilising like we haven't seen before.

[tabascoboy]

I thought I just have spend the next 4 years tuning out his attempts to own the news cycles... it's like trying to ignore air raid sirens going off outside your house.

Looking for the positive in trying circumstances is both inspiring and a potential sign of madness... have you tried imagining a Mr Whippy van instead of the sirens?

I wonder if Trump, Musk and co might be over reaching here and shooting themselves in the collective foot. I watched a clip earlier of the CEO of a sat comms company based in Europe talking about offering Ukraine comms coverage (while one Canadian province has cancelled Starlink's contract) and Europe is mobilising like we haven't seen before.

Instead of weakening Ukraine and Europe's resolve into a capitulation, have to wonder if this is going to misfire. Russia will have more cause to believe that they can take more than the territory they currently hold and have been talking more about a further mobilisation with a view to continuing hostilities. This will hardly fit Trump's narrative that UA and Europe is the party preventing peace and eventually even his court of cronies might have to reconsider their options. Well we can hope so anyway even though NATO and the US alliance looks more and more like a thing of the past, but it does depend strongly on the hold that Putin appears to have on Trump being weakened.

[Guy Smiley]

800billion Euro defense fund agreed by European leaders at today's special meeting...

[Flockwitt]

I thought I just have spend the next 4 years tuning out his attempts to own the news cycles... it's like trying to ignore air raid sirens going off outside your house.

Looking for the positive in trying circumstances is both inspiring and a potential sign of madness... have you tried imagining a Mr Whippy van instead of the sirens?

I wonder if Trump, Musk and co might be over reaching here and shooting themselves in the collective foot. I watched a clip earlier of the CEO of a sat comms company based in Europe talking about offering Ukraine comms coverage (while one Canadian province has cancelled Starlink's contract) and Europe is mobilising like we haven't

Europe dropping its corrupt dependency on Russian controlled energy sources can only be a good thing.
But rearmament / arms races have never ended well. Europe will need to review its nuclear deterrent as part and parcel of this also.
At this juncture I would say on balance this is good as the world order is in the process of shifting with the level and type of threat China might offer is still an unknown and having Europe as the militarily non-entity is was a few years ago would only encourage any military ambitions China has.

[Firewater]

I hope the Putin propagandists are reading this;

Ukrainian opposition leaders have dismissed the idea of holding a wartime election, after a media report of contacts between them and US officials and in the wake of President Donald Trump calling his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “dictator” for not holding one, Reuters reports.

Former Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said on Thursday his team was working with US “partners” to maintain support for Ukraine – but he added that he was opposed to a wartime election.

In a written statement published on Telegram, Poroshenko said elections should only happen after peace had been established. He added that a vote should take place no later than 180 days after the end of the war.

Yuliia Tymoshenko, another opposition leader, said her team “is talking with all our allies who can help in securing a just peace as soon as possible,” and said that elections should not take place before this had been achieved.

Politico reported on Wednesday that four senior members of Trump’s entourage had held discussions with some of Zelenskiy’s top political opponents.

The talks were held with Tymoshenko and senior members of the party of Poroshenko, who was president from 2014 to 2019, Politico reported, citing three Ukrainian lawmakers and a U.S. Republican foreign policy expert.

The discussions focused on whether Ukraine could have quick presidential elections, according to the report.

Of everything this batshit crazy White House has done over the last few weeks, this has to be the absolute worst. They're essentially trying to depose Zelensky!

The Hhite House wants an election. That is long overdue. I woudl say if a fair election is held Zelensky would have about a zero chance of winning but thats life

Im in favour of peace and the Ukrainian people having the right to vote for their leader

[Firewater]

I thought I just have spend the next 4 years tuning out his attempts to own the news cycles... it's like trying to ignore air raid sirens going off outside your house.

Looking for the positive in trying circumstances is both inspiring and a potential sign of madness... have you tried imagining a Mr Whippy van instead of the sirens?

I wonder if Trump, Musk and co might be over reaching here and shooting themselves in the collective foot. I watched a clip earlier of the CEO of a sat comms company based in Europe talking about offering Ukraine comms coverage (while one Canadian province has cancelled Starlink's contract) and Europe is mobilising like we haven't

Europe dropping its corrupt dependency on Russian controlled energy sources can only be a good thing.
But rearmament / arms races have never ended well. Europe will need to review its nuclear deterrent as part and parcel of this also.
At this juncture I would say on balance this is good as the world order is in the process of shifting with the level and type of threat China might offer is still an unknown and having Europe as the militarily non-entity is was a few years ago would only encourage any military ambitions China has.

How is much more expensive energy a good thing.

[Hugo]

If nothing else it looks like Europe has been stirred out of its complacency over the past week.

The Cold War actually spurred a lot of excellence in the West in every conceivable domain because people were motivated by the need to defeat Communism. It manifested itself in scientific innovation, athletic excellence, the arts etc. Societies really need these grand projects to give everyone a sense of shared purpose and to push the boundaries.

What you've seen in Europe in the past 30 years is stagnation. Having to figure out stuff without the caretaking of the US and having to meet the challenge posed by China and Russia might instill a drive and motivation not seen in Europe for a long time.

Outsourcing manufacturing overseas and defence to the US is not a viable option unless you want to be in a state of dependence. Maybe Europe is poised for a Renaissance?