Bledisloe II: All Blacks vs Wallabies: MATCH THREAD: Sunday 18th Oct

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

J Baz my only complaint, because he's not an AB winger's ringpiece.

Other than that fairly solid under the circumstances.

Messrs Sotutu, Barrett, Ioane and McKenzie should be useful finishers.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Yes he is. Savea is a very good tackling openside but Cane is a better ball winner.

I don't recall Cane being dropped for being too slight and failing to win enough turnovers.

The stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.

https://index.rugbypass.com/compare/pla ... 64:11609:0

I'll get some international stats, however in the meantime, there is a reason why Savea is out of sight of Sam Cane in all the stats ranking sites.

https://www.rugbypass.com/international ... die-savea/

Gonna need those international stats. Super Rugby is a very different beast.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)

FFS

I'd have liked to see a true winger at 14 and ALB and Goodhue the other way around, but otherwise this is a pretty solid side.

We will miss Whitelock though.

[Guy Smiley]

1. Joe Moody (47)
2. Dane Coles (70)
3. Ofa Tuungafasi (36)
4. Patrick Tuipulotu (31)
5. Tupou Vaa’i (1)
6. Shannon Frizell (10)
7. Sam Cane (69) - captain
8. Ardie Savea (45)

9. Aaron Smith (93)
10. Richie Mo’unga (18)
11. Caleb Clarke (1)
12. Jack Goodhue (14)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (44)
14. Jordie Barrett (18)
15. Beauden Barrett (84)

16. Codie Taylor (51)
17. Alex Hodgman - debut
18. Nepo Laulala (27)
19. Scott Barrett (36)
20. Hoskins Sotutu (1)
21. TJ Perenara (65)
22. Rieko Ioane (30)
23. Damian McKenzie (24)

FFS

X2.

Jordy on the wing, Goodhue at 2nd 5 instead of centre, Sam Whitelock goooOOOooonnnne!

Yup and a rookie on the other wing with A Smith still starting.

That’s my complaint, SAM... you’d almost call this a development side. I mean, maybe Jordie will get faster.

[Gumboot]

I'd have liked to see a true winger at 14 and ALB and Goodhue the other way around, but otherwise this is a pretty solid side.

We will miss Whitelock though.

Yeah, the midfield's an odd one.

And Tuipulotu needs to step up big time.

[Wild Beef]

This is standard winger/fb on the wings for the abs. It’s just more noticeable because Jordie is a slow fb. I rate his selection though as he brings a lot of other useful qualities (only DMac is more accurate with the boot but he doesn’t have Jordies range).

[Trapper]

This Foster bloke, not quite sure he knows what he’s doing. Why not put Jordan on the wing instead of the giraffe, I mean he is actually the best outside back in the country. The ABs had better friggen fire up or it could be a long afternoon. Congrats to Hodgeman on being named, go well son.

[Gumboot]

That’s my complaint, SAM... you’d almost call this a development side.

It's clearly a side on the rebuild, through necessity. There's no way I'd have Perenara starting ahead of Nugget, btw.

[Trapper]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

[Guy Smiley]

That’s my complaint, SAM... you’d almost call this a development side.

It's clearly a side on the rebuild, through necessity. There's no way I'd have Perenara starting ahead of Nugget, btw.

Smith needs a wake up and there’s no room for soft calls. There are other half backs around who can do the job.

If we must play Jordie I’d start him at 15 and have BB on the bench at 23.

[Gumboot]

Smith was highly critical of his own performance in comments to the media earlier in the week. I'm expecting a huuuge game from him on Sunday.

[Guy Smiley]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

Fozzie

[Guy Smiley]

Smith was highly critical of his own performance in comments to the media earlier in the week. I'm expecting a huuuge game from him on Sunday.

That’s great... he’s a 94 test veteran. He should know by now that actions speak louder than words. At least, that’s what we’ve always been told by All Blacks, right?

[Gumboot]

Wallabies team to face All Blacks in Auckland

James Slipper, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, Taniela Tupou, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Matt Philip, Ned Hanigan, Michael Hooper, Harry Wilson, Nic White, James O’Connor, Marika Koroibete, Matt To’omua, Hunter Paisami, Filipo Daugunu, Tom Banks.

Bench: Jordan Uelese, Scott Sio, Allan Alaalatoa, Rob Simmons, Liam Wright, Jake Gordon, Jordan Petaia, Reece Hodge

[ScarfaceClaw]

Smith was highly critical of his own performance in comments to the media earlier in the week. I'm expecting a huuuge game from him on Sunday.

That’s great... he’s a 94 test veteran. He should know by now that actions speak louder than words. At least, that’s what we’ve always been told by All Blacks, right?

Snecky was head and shoulder above any other halfback leading up to this test. Yes he didn’t play well as he usually does and his kicking was poor. You’re now saying he needs to to dropped? Tough crowd.

[akann]

Just when we thought that SARU are the most hopeless clowns in World Rugby, in comes Foster and co to prove us wrong.

[Gumboot]

Smith was highly critical of his own performance in comments to the media earlier in the week. I'm expecting a huuuge game from him on Sunday.

That’s great... he’s a 94 test veteran. He should know by now that actions speak louder than words. At least, that’s what we’ve always been told by All Blacks, right?

Snecky was head and shoulder above any other halfback leading up to this test. Yes he didn’t play well as he usually does and his kicking was poor. You’re now saying he needs to to dropped? Tough crowd.

Yep, 94 caps speaks pretty loudly to his actions. I mean, it's not like he earned them through anything he said.

[Guy Smiley]

That’s great... he’s a 94 test veteran. He should know by now that actions speak louder than words. At least, that’s what we’ve always been told by All Blacks, right?

Snecky was head and shoulder above any other halfback leading up to this test. Yes he didn’t play well as he usually does and his kicking was poor. You’re now saying he needs to to dropped? Tough crowd.

Yep, 94 caps speaks pretty loudly to his actions. I mean, it's not like he earned them through anything he said.

I thought Webber had a more consistent Super rugby season. Every player fades sooner or later and sentiment doesn’t cut it.

My call was to swap TJ and Snecky’s starting spots, not drop him BTW

[Wild Beef]

Weber had a more consistent super season? In 2020!?

[mrbrownstone]

The Good:

- I like this backline balance better. George Bridge's injury is very unfortunate, but it allows us to revert to the tried and tested power wing/second fullback formula. I thought Clarke looked very good off the bench last week and this may be all the opportunity he needs to nail down the jersey full time. Going forward, I expect he and Leicester Fainga'anuku to be competing for this power wing role. Hopefully it's not long before Clarke and Will Jordan can re-ignite their electrifying U20s partnership.

- Great to see Scott Barrett back.

- Nice to see Alex Hodgman debut. He's long been dominating scrums for Canterbury while winning titles, and his provincial form has finally translated to the next level this year. I remember AC predicting he looked like an All Black years ago, and that has finally come to fruition. At 27 years old he should be coming into his prime as a prop, and with our loosehead depth very thin, a good performance should give him the chance to secure his spot in the match day squad for the foreseeable future.

- The backline reserves look very dangerous while covering all bases positionally. I think 20 minutes of impact is the best role for DMac and Reiko at test level given our current squad balance. We went away from this to an extent at the World Cup last year. With SBW & Jordie as the back reserves, we didn't have anywhere near the injection of pure pace that these two should offer.

The Bad:

- As mentioned, the midfield appears to be the wrong way around. Strange.

- I still don't think Jordie is a winger. In my view he should either start at fullback, miss the squad entirely, or try to rebrand himself as a midfielder a la Reiko. He simply isn't quick enough to be a test winger.

- Not much we can do about it, but that's probably the weakest locking pair we've trotted out since Chicago. Vaa'i has plenty of promise, but I worry he's being asked to fulfil it too soon.

- A starting pack with just one Crusader worries me. Only one Canes starting back too. Times are changing.

[Carter's Choice]

I'm going to support Foster on this XXIII.

Whilst it's not my ideal team, I like the fact that he has resisted mass changes, and generally only reacted to injuries. I also like the fact that he has sent a strong message to Rieko Ioane; don't be a dickhead!

[Guy Smiley]

Weber had a more consistent super season? In 2020!?

Don’t interrupt me when I’m angry.

[Dan54]

I'm going to support Foster on this XXIII.

Whilst it's not my ideal team, I like the fact that he has resisted mass changes, and generally only reacted to injuries. I also like the fact that he has sent a strong message to Rieko Ioane; don't be a dickhead!

Like the fact that Reiko has been given message, I still reckon it about staying in F***en position in defence more that holding the f***en ball even! Real shame about Whitelock but I also pleased they haven't made huge changes from last week.
I actually more surprised that Rennie dropped Samu from Wallabies.

[Casey Ryback]

Wobs team: Hannigan, BPA brought in to start, Petaia and Wright onto the bench. Fainga’a, Samu, Valetini and Lolesio dropped.

Australia team to face New Zealand:

1. James Slipper (97 Tests)

2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa (4 Tests)

3. Taniela Tupou (20 Tests)

4. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (22 Tests)

5. Matt Philip (4 Tests)

6. Ned Hanigan (20 Tests)

7. Michael Hooper (c) (100 Tests)

8. Harry Wilson (1 Test)

9. Nic White (32 Tests)

10. James O’Connor (53 Tests)

11. Marika Koroibete (29 Tests)

12. Matt To’omua (53 Tests)

13. Hunter Paisami (1 Test)

14. Filipo Daugunu (1 Test)

15. Tom Banks (7 Tests)

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese (10 Tests)

17. Scott Sio (64 Tests)

18. Allan Alaalatoa (36 Tests)

19. Rob Simmons (101 Tests)

20. Liam Wright (2 Tests)

21. Jake Gordon (2 Tests)

22. Jordan Petaia (3 Tests)

23. Reece Hodge (40 Tests)

[Ted.]

The stats say otherwise regards their respective ball winning ability.

https://index.rugbypass.com/compare/pla ... 64:11609:0

I'll get some international stats, however in the meantime, there is a reason why Savea is out of sight of Sam Cane in all the stats ranking sites.

https://www.rugbypass.com/international ... die-savea/

Gonna need those international stats. Super Rugby is a very different beast.

There's a mix of both international and domestic/club stats in there. If you want to support you unfounded assertions further, I suggest you look yourself. I do however recall a similar exercise s year or so back, with similar results re breakdown stats.

[Ted.]

Just when we thought that SARU are the most hopeless clowns in World Rugby, in comes Foster and co to prove us wrong.

[Monkey Magic]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

Fozzie

Didn't Robertson have him at 12 all year?

[Wild Beef]

Weber had a more consistent super season? In 2020!?

Don’t interrupt me when I’m angry.

That’ll be after the rwc then right? I mean, Foster will be renewed until then. But the old boys club will pick one of their own to replace him so...

[Ted.]

Why the hell are Reece and Lomax released to their provincial side, when there are players who are not in the 23, and quite frankly not likely to be selected match day, retained in camp?

Foster, you fuckup, let our people go!

[Ted.]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

Fozzie

Didn't Robertson have him at 12 all year?

For much of it, but not entirely. All the same, Robertson does not have the 2nd 5/8 resources available to Foster and, as has been argued previously, it is not Goodhue's best position (centre undoubtedly is) and clearly ALB is better at 2nd 5/8. Maybe Goodhue will become more adept at 12, but for now he is at most second best.

[Ted.]

Wobs team: Hannigan, BPA brought in to start, Petaia and Wright onto the bench. Fainga’a, Samu, Valetini and Lolesio dropped.

Australia team to face New Zealand:

1. James Slipper (97 Tests)

2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa (4 Tests)

3. Taniela Tupou (20 Tests)

4. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (22 Tests)

5. Matt Philip (4 Tests)

6. Ned Hanigan (20 Tests)

7. Michael Hooper (c) (100 Tests)

8. Harry Wilson (1 Test)

9. Nic White (32 Tests)

10. James O’Connor (53 Tests)

11. Marika Koroibete (29 Tests)

12. Matt To’omua (53 Tests)

13. Hunter Paisami (1 Test)

14. Filipo Daugunu (1 Test)

15. Tom Banks (7 Tests)

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese (10 Tests)

17. Scott Sio (64 Tests)

18. Allan Alaalatoa (36 Tests)

19. Rob Simmons (101 Tests)

20. Liam Wright (2 Tests)

21. Jake Gordon (2 Tests)

22. Jordan Petaia (3 Tests)

23. Reece Hodge (40 Tests)

That's a bit of a clean-out in some respects, is it not?

[Guy Smiley]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

Fozzie

Didn't Robertson have him at 12 all year?

Yes. The Crusaders were clearly developing their depth in the backline and Goodhue made a fair fist of it at 12.... in Super Rugby. He’s not a genuine test 12 yet. He’s a gifted 13 and ALB plays both, bringing more ability to the 12 role. So, Fozzie.

[Auckman]

Can anyone explain why ALB and Goodhue are back to front and inside out?

A cunning Foster "if we confuse ourselves, we'll definitely confuse the enemy" selection masterstroke?

Good to see Clarke start. Disagree with JB at wing. Tuipulotu needs to lead the pack.

[Carter's Choice]

I wish we would swap ALB and Goodhue around, it wasn’t that long ago we thought Goodhue was going to be a 100 Test All Black in the 13 jersey, what happened?

Fozzie

Didn't Robertson have him at 12 all year?

Which player in the Crusaders squad would you have played at 12 over Goodhue? Roberston did the best he could with the squad he had.

[Dan54]

Fozzie

Didn't Robertson have him at 12 all year?

Yes. The Crusaders were clearly developing their depth in the backline and Goodhue made a fair fist of it at 12.... in Super Rugby. He’s not a genuine test 12 yet. He’s a gifted 13 and ALB plays both, bringing more ability to the 12 role. So, Fozzie.

Reckon it going along with not making more changes than needed? Who is Mounga used to playing with at 12? He has had Goodhue outside him (and bloody successfully all year) so can understand why they leaving him there. Think maybe if Mounga wasn't there could of been a swap.

[mrbrownstone]

Goodhue is used to bosh it up too often at 12 for my liking. He's capable of filling that role to a degree, but it's a waste of his skills.

For mine, he's a good enough player to get away with playing 12, but he's an exceptional centre.

[Wild Beef]

Goodhue is used to bosh it up too often at 12 for my liking. He's capable of filling that role to a degree, but it's a waste of his skills.

For mine, he's a good enough player to get away with playing 12, but he's an exceptional centre.

Yup.

[Carter's Choice]

Goodhue is a very good defender, both in terms of decision making and front on against big ball runners. I suspect him playing at 12 is also to sure up that 10/12 channel.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

https://index.rugbypass.com/compare/pla ... 64:11609:0

I'll get some international stats, however in the meantime, there is a reason why Savea is out of sight of Sam Cane in all the stats ranking sites.

https://www.rugbypass.com/international ... die-savea/

Gonna need those international stats. Super Rugby is a very different beast.

There's a mix of both international and domestic/club stats in there. If you want to support you unfounded assertions further, I suggest you look yourself. I do however recall a similar exercise s year or so back, with similar results re breakdown stats.

There are a few things wrong with this All Blacks side. Captain Sam Cane playing 7 is not one of them.

[Casey Ryback]

Wobs team: Hannigan, BPA brought in to start, Petaia and Wright onto the bench. Fainga’a, Samu, Valetini and Lolesio dropped.

Australia team to face New Zealand:

1. James Slipper (97 Tests)

2. Brandon Paenga-Amosa (4 Tests)

3. Taniela Tupou (20 Tests)

4. Lukhan Salakaia-Loto (22 Tests)

5. Matt Philip (4 Tests)

6. Ned Hanigan (20 Tests)

7. Michael Hooper (c) (100 Tests)

8. Harry Wilson (1 Test)

9. Nic White (32 Tests)

10. James O’Connor (53 Tests)

11. Marika Koroibete (29 Tests)

12. Matt To’omua (53 Tests)

13. Hunter Paisami (1 Test)

14. Filipo Daugunu (1 Test)

15. Tom Banks (7 Tests)

Replacements

16. Jordan Uelese (10 Tests)

17. Scott Sio (64 Tests)

18. Allan Alaalatoa (36 Tests)

19. Rob Simmons (101 Tests)

20. Liam Wright (2 Tests)

21. Jake Gordon (2 Tests)

22. Jordan Petaia (3 Tests)

23. Reece Hodge (40 Tests)

That's a bit of a clean-out in some respects, is it not?

4 changes after a draw with the AB's might seem harsh, but there were definitely some poor areas last week that need big improvement. Number one priority being the lineout, which seems to have cost Samu and Fainga’a their spots. Not sure that BPA is going to be much better than Fainga’a in the lineout though, but I guess we'll see.

Petaia was always going to come back in once fit, and Liam Wright should have been there from the start IMO.