So, coronavirus...

[Un Pilier]

It may well be that the iphone 6 is ancient and that the bluetooth requirement for the app will batter the older phones, but most over fifty year olds, ie the age group where we start to see vulnerability, don't give a monkey's about the latest and greatest gaming-level phones, they want a phone, and perhaps a working internet connection.

Which is why I still have a Nokia 2330!

Yep. My iPhone 6 has served me well for years and I generally have no need for anything less ancient. It’s easy enough to understand that the technology has moved on and that it’s a build rather than os issue. The question for me is at what stage I need to upgrade my phone; I won’t just for the nhs app unless it’s clear it really works and makes a significant contribution to our Covid response, so I’ll probably hang on until there’s a significant security or functionality issue. As long as it integrates well with my iPad and Mac and has decent internet / Wi-fi (and I can talk to people) I don’t feel unduly deprived.

[Ymx]

Have just been looking at the uk stats on the worldo site.

I’d have thought the deaths to peak several weeks after the peak of the daily cases. But looking at first peak that doesn’t se to be the case.

Peak of both is around mid April. Why is that? Ie assuming it takes a few weeks from a case being detected to someone dying.

Were many of those detections back then of people only as they were carted to hospital in a critical condition?

The statistics are mainly due to a lack of mass testing in April.

That makes sense. Many more either had it undetected or at least had it earlier on than the stats show.

Are there reliable enough stats anywhere on number of newly hospitalised covid patients per day?

[robmatic]

Have just been looking at the uk stats on the worldo site.

I’d have thought the deaths to peak several weeks after the peak of the daily cases. But looking at first peak that doesn’t se to be the case.

Peak of both is around mid April. Why is that? Ie assuming it takes a few weeks from a case being detected to someone dying.

Were many of those detections back then of people only as they were carted to hospital in a critical condition?

The statistics are mainly due to a lack of mass testing in April.

That makes sense. Many more either had it undetected or at least had it earlier on than the stats show.

Are there reliable enough stats anywhere on number of newly hospitalised covid patients per day?

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare

[Openside]

For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

Quite, they won't even tell you who ,when or where Just that you need to isolate. Fuck that!!

[Saint]

For me as someone who hasn't downloaded the T&T app it has nothing to do with data - between the government, my employer and the big tech firms there's nowhere to hide anyway.
I just don't want to isolate because I came within 30 yards of someone with Covid in Tesco.

Quite, they won't even tell you who ,when or where Just that you need to isolate. Fuck that!!

They tell you that you may have been incotacty and that you should keep an eye out for symptoms. Realistically, you need to have been in fairly close contact for a decent period of time to get an alert - a fleeting 30 yard contact (if your or their BT actually makes it that far - unlikely) isn't going to do it

[Glaston]

Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

So what is one tory ministers solution?

Ignore generations of Cornish miners by stating a Cornish pasty is not a substantial meal, and suggesting chips should be added.

Would a Cornish miner of yesteryear even recognise what is served up as a pasty in a pub in Liverpool as being edible?

[Saint]

Sky news reporting from Warringtons covid ward. Observation being that it’s full of fat people. Not just tubby, but fat.

Why didn’t they in the last 6 months instruct us all to lose weight and get a bit fitter?

So what is one tory ministers solution?

Ignore generations of Cornish miners by stating a Cornish pasty is not a substantial meal, and suggesting chips should be added.

Would a Cornish miner of yesteryear even recognise what is served up as a pasty in a pub in Liverpool as being edible?

If it's a Ginsters then probably not.

This is just a bit of a non-story really. The general public don't need to know what a substantial meal is - pub landlords and managers do. And they work with that terminology and what it means when determining if under 18s are allowed a drink with their meal anyway.

[Sandstorm]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

[Ovals]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

Much like those dumb morons in Liverpool last night.

[Uncle fester]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

At work back in Feb, one of the first briefings we got hammered home the point that "while the chance of us coming to serious harm from this virus was quite small, the chance of us passing it to somebody who will come to serious harm is quite high".

It's still true.

[Un Pilier]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

At work back in Feb, one of the first briefings we got hammered home the point that "while the chance of us coming to serious harm from this virus was quite small, the chance of us passing it to somebody who will come to serious harm is quite high".

It's still true.

It is. Sound mantra.

[laurent]

Pretty much reconfinment in France From Friday.

Curfew from 9pm to 6am for all large urban areas (Whole Paris and suburban area as well)

[fishfoodie]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

At work back in Feb, one of the first briefings we got hammered home the point that "while the chance of us coming to serious harm from this virus was quite small, the chance of us passing it to somebody who will come to serious harm is quite high".

It's still true.

It's something I find intensely frustrating; that the exact demographic that throws a strop about, "not being treated like a kid" .... does exactly that when they are given a sniff of freedom, & responsibility !

Look across any University town on the planet to see the confirmation !

To think we're seriously considering lowering the voting age, makes me want to throw up.

[Saint]

So a huge bunch of 17-18 year olds hit up a local bar in Cape Town from Bishops and Herschel High Schools. More than 80 now have Covid and their Matric/A Level exams start next week.
They’ve all been excluded and can’t retake until June 21. So they all miss out on their Uni places next January.

Also one of the girl’s Mum was taken to hospital with heart/liver failure due to Covid last night.

Dumb, dumb kids.

At work back in Feb, one of the first briefings we got hammered home the point that "while the chance of us coming to serious harm from this virus was quite small, the chance of us passing it to somebody who will come to serious harm is quite high".

It's still true.

It's something I find intensely frustrating; that the exact demographic that throws a strop about, "not being treated like a kid" .... does exactly that when they are given a sniff of freedom, & responsibility !

Look across any University town on the planet to see the confirmation !

To think we're seriously considering lowering the voting age, makes me want to throw up.

I had r5l on this morning in the background - one of the BBC reporters said that the mood on the ground in Liverpool was that they would do the exact opposite of government guidance simply because the government was Conservative. From talking to work colleagues oop north there's a similar attitude in Manchester and Leeds.

[Hong Kong]

awfully bad judgement

[Bimbowomxn]

If IH posts his numbers madness about Boston Consulting Groups earnings from the UK government, I would have to endorse one of his posts.

[C69]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

[Guy Smiley]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

Yeah. It’s just a flu, etc.

[fishfoodie]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

It's all too real unfortunately.

You've a PM who has actually been thru this awful shit; & is still, apparently, perfectly happy to pretend that it's just a minor blip on the radar, & it mustn't be allowed to interfere with his career plan; i.e. he can't afford to piss off the loons in his party that elected him; despite his personal experiences that this isn't just the fucking flu.

At least with the Shitgibbon, I can understand going into an election trying to pretend that up is down, & down is up; but you've just had a GE, & he has a massive majority to push thru against any internal opposition.

[Hong Kong]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-ze ... aign-event

Oh look. We have someone educated in America

[Ali Cadoo]

Much like those dumb morons in Liverpool last night.

Redundancy on at least three levels!

[Bimbowomxn]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

Yeah. It’s just a flu, etc.

Less for the Under 70’s according to WHO last report,


https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_fir ... 265892.pdf

[Bimbowomxn]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

It's all too real unfortunately.

You've a PM who has actually been thru this awful shit; & is still, apparently, perfectly happy to pretend that it's just a minor blip on the radar, & it mustn't be allowed to interfere with his career plan; i.e. he can't afford to piss off the loons in his party that elected him; despite his personal experiences that this isn't just the fucking flu.

At least with the Shitgibbon, I can understand going into an election trying to pretend that up is down, & down is up; but you've just had a GE, & he has a massive majority to push thru against any internal opposition.

1/2 the country is shut down.

No one is pretending it’s a blip.

No one actually pretends it’s the flu.

You’re a liar.

[Ted.]

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-ze ... aign-event

Oh look. We have someone educated in America

I won't miss Winnie when he and his party crash and burn in the next few days, but he can sure offer a decent put down at short notice to idiots and fanatics alike.

[dpedin]

Interesting article .... looks like we didn't do very well after all! Also seems to suggest some of the contextual factors used to explain our poor response and outcomes are not indeed sufficient to explain variation in outcomes? Also those under 65 in England and Wales have highest death rate in study.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1112-0

[eldanielfire]

I made no “everyone” point or claims.


If there’s no immunity from being infected how will a vaccine protect the vulnerable and elderly?

By the vulnerable and elderly being vaccinated and therefore being immune for COVID-19. You surely aren't this dumb?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -vaccines/

There's no simple answer - but vaccines can be designed to be more effective than immunity from infection.

True but you don't even need that to illustrate that a vaccine can still provide immunity. Some have passive mechanisms for example just delivering the antibodies or just stimulating T-Cells.

[eldanielfire]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

It seems however that there is a lot fo scouse resistance in Liverpool. I'm seeing lots of posts from people in Liverpool claiming they are doing everything right, they see no one breaking any social distancing boundaries, and the government is picking on them and yet there there is a gym that refuses to close down for the lockdown and it's reached 250% of it's GoFundMe target to pay it's fines for refusing to lockdown. There seems to be numerous cases of similar contradictions and the protests.

[Ted.]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

Yeah. It’s just a flu, etc.

Less for the Under 70’s according to WHO last report,


https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_fir ... 265892.pdf

And yet, if you let it go amongst the younger, fitter population, at least in Trumpland:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/ ... l-millions

[Bimbowomxn]

Yeah. It’s just a flu, etc.

Less for the Under 70’s according to WHO last report,


https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_fir ... 265892.pdf

And yet, if you let it go amongst the younger, fitter population, at least in Trumpland:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/ ... l-millions

Yeah, I’m quoting an actual scientist on the latest science.

[Jockaline]

This is a great site for Scotland Info. The UK section doesn't go into as much detail though.

https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotlan ... ker/deaths

[Green light echo]

Interesting article .... looks like we didn't do very well after all! Also seems to suggest some of the contextual factors used to explain our poor response and outcomes are not indeed sufficient to explain variation in outcomes? Also those under 65 in England and Wales have highest death rate in study.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1112-0

You should hang your heads in shame.

'GREAT' Britain my arse.

[Ymx]

Interesting article .... looks like we didn't do very well after all! Also seems to suggest some of the contextual factors used to explain our poor response and outcomes are not indeed sufficient to explain variation in outcomes? Also those under 65 in England and Wales have highest death rate in study.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1112-0

You should hang your heads in shame.

'GREAT' Britain my arse.

Wowsers what a blow

[C69]

Feck this is getting a mess.

[frodder]

So the reality is as I posted a whole ago my region is Fecked atm.
Far right posters called me a scaremonger.
I see PHE figures before they tirckled down.
This feels sureal.....

It seems however that there is a lot fo scouse resistance in Liverpool. I'm seeing lots of posts from people in Liverpool claiming they are doing everything right, they see no one breaking any social distancing boundaries, and the government is picking on them and yet there there is a gym that refuses to close down for the lockdown and it's reached 250% of it's GoFundMe target to pay it's fines for refusing to lockdown. There seems to be numerous cases of similar contradictions and the protests.

its

[Biffer]

A short article on Sweden

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/ ... o-covid-19

Sweden is a high-trust society, where people follow the rules. And yet its approach is based on the idea that, as covid-19 is here for a long time, asking too much of people will lower compliance and thus spread the disease. Low-trust societies may need a different balance between coercion and self-policing but they, too, need sustainable rules.

Neither the US nor the UK are high trust societies. Significant chunks of the UK population would not follow the rules if they were laid out the same way as Sweden.

[Sandstorm]

A short article on Sweden

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/ ... o-covid-19

Sweden is a high-trust society, where people follow the rules. And yet its approach is based on the idea that, as covid-19 is here for a long time, asking too much of people will lower compliance and thus spread the disease. Low-trust societies may need a different balance between coercion and self-policing but they, too, need sustainable rules.

Neither the US nor the UK are high trust societies. Significant chunks of the UK population would not follow the rules if they were laid out the same way as Sweden.

Can't even get the average Brit to carry ID around with him.

[Glaston]

A short article on Sweden

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/ ... o-covid-19

Sweden is a high-trust society, where people follow the rules. And yet its approach is based on the idea that, as covid-19 is here for a long time, asking too much of people will lower compliance and thus spread the disease. Low-trust societies may need a different balance between coercion and self-policing but they, too, need sustainable rules.

Neither the US nor the UK are high trust societies. Significant chunks of the UK population would not follow the rules if they were laid out the same way as Sweden.

Can't even get the average Brit to carry ID around with him.

1939-1952

and they still had Ration books till 1954

[Globus]

Well; you've got to be Einstein or have degrees in astrophysics and psychology to understand the Tier rules and how they affect this and that in the UK now, especially as England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland have different ones.

Perhaps the only saving grace for me is that the MIL cannot leave Lancashire!

[Openside]

The problem with this situation is it is very hard to know who to believe. You see figures that the average age of those dying is 82.5 and then an article above(which I haven't read) that seems to suggest that those below 65 are the worst hit, they can't both be true...

It seems to me the only defence of lockdown is to prevent hospitals being overrun which didn't happen the first time round and seemingly hospitalisations are way down on Mar/Apr - research even suggests lockdown in the areas since the national lockdown has seen infections rise!!

what does it all mean?

[Biffer]

Well; you've got to be Einstein or have degrees in astrophysics and psychology to understand the Tier rules and how they affect this and that in the UK now, especially as England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland have different ones.

Perhaps the only saving grace for me is that the MIL cannot leave Lancashire!

I've got one in Astrophysics and one in economics so I'm fine. But the messaging is clearer up here - not perfect but better. England is rapidly turning into a complete shitshow.