2025 6N thread

[C69]

Saw this on the TV coverage. Must be hard to take!

Really ?

[SaintK]

Saw this on the TV coverage. Must be hard to take!

Really ?

Dunno! You tell me

[Paddington Bear]

Below the line comments on the Telegraph’s match report are blaming devolution and voting Labour for a century for Wales’ loss yesterday, phenomenal dedication to the bit

Cheers....
Cunt

…excuse me?

[sefton]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

[Biffer]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

There’s something very wrong with the state of the game when refs don’t understand when to use the protocols around head contact.

[Uncle fester]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

I'm being generous here but the lack of a close up angle is probably what the decision was based on.

[Kawazaki]

[Tichtheid]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

I'm being generous here but the lack of a close up angle is probably what the decision was based on.

There were plenty of angles to show Kinghorn in touch before Jordan scored

[Uncle fester]

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

I'm being generous here but the lack of a close up angle is probably what the decision was based on.

There were plenty of angles to show Kinghorn in touch before Jordan scored

I'm talking about Mauvaka.

[Tichtheid]

I'm being generous here but the lack of a close up angle is probably what the decision was based on.

There were plenty of angles to show Kinghorn in touch before Jordan scored

I'm talking about Mauvaka.

So am I

There were plenty of cameras and angles to see everything that went on in a game, as there are at every major international fixture.

That they didn’t show the headbutt wasn’t down to lack of angles or cameras
We see shots of disputed tries from behind the deadball line, from spider cam, from the side, from wide and near angles, the cameras are there.

[Uncle fester]

There were plenty of angles to show Kinghorn in touch before Jordan scored

I'm talking about Mauvaka.

So am I

There were plenty of cameras and angles to see everything that went on in a game, as there are at every major international fixture.

That they didn’t show the headbutt wasn’t down to lack of angles or cameras
We see shots of disputed tries from behind the deadball line, from spider cam, from the side, from wide and near angles, the cameras are there.

Ah I get you. 2022 first french try against against Ireland looked a bit iffy on the pass from Ntamack but there was no angle for the TMO to check. Margin at the end was 6 points.

After the six nations finished, the overhead angle finally came out and it showed conclusively that the pass was forward. Strange they couldn't manage to have that available for the TMO.

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-un ... -m2pfzh3g7

Interesting article which is not behind a paywall today about the decline of village rugby in Wales

[Ovals]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-un ... -m2pfzh3g7

Interesting article which is not behind a paywall today about the decline of village rugby in Wales

Good read - but very sad. Maybe they could start by just running 7s teams and running a few tournaments - and get a girls side going as well. My local club has seen a big increase in girls rugby, thanks in part to my daughter that organises a fair bit of it. A year ago they had to borrow players for their u16 side - last Friday they had enough spare players to were lend them to the opposition to get the game on. Two of my Grand Daughters play and love it - the eldest in now in the Quins academy and it is only her 4th season.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Watching yesterday’s decision in the cold light of day and without the emotion of wanting Scotland to win (spit) and I’m even more astonished that a red was not given.

It’s mind boggling that it wasn’t a red. If not from the ref then the clowns in the bunker.

There’s something very wrong with the state of the game when refs don’t understand when to use the protocols around head contact.

Did White leave the pitch for an HIA?

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-un ... -m2pfzh3g7

Interesting article which is not behind a paywall today about the decline of village rugby in Wales

Good read - but very sad. Maybe they could start by just running 7s teams and running a few tournaments - and get a girls side going as well. My local club has seen a big increase in girls rugby, thanks in part to my daughter that organises a fair bit of it. A year ago they had to borrow players for their u16 side - last Friday they had enough spare players to were lend them to the opposition to get the game on. Two of my Grand Daughters play and love it - the eldest in now in the Quins academy and it is only her 4th season.

Women and girls sport is so much better at being flexible on this sort of stuff. A club like the one in the article is never going back to playing a full calendar of 18 league games with training on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but possibly as you say puts out a 7s team/touch/a couple of junior sides etc. the options don’t really exist though

[Slick]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/rugby-un ... -m2pfzh3g7

Interesting article which is not behind a paywall today about the decline of village rugby in Wales

Good read - but very sad. Maybe they could start by just running 7s teams and running a few tournaments - and get a girls side going as well. My local club has seen a big increase in girls rugby, thanks in part to my daughter that organises a fair bit of it. A year ago they had to borrow players for their u16 side - last Friday they had enough spare players to were lend them to the opposition to get the game on. Two of my Grand Daughters play and love it - the eldest in now in the Quins academy and it is only her 4th season.

Women and girls sport is so much better at being flexible on this sort of stuff. A club like the one in the article is never going back to playing a full calendar of 18 league games with training on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but possibly as you say puts out a 7s team/touch/a couple of junior sides etc. the options don’t really exist though

I was just having this conversation with my son yesterday. He loves rugby and comes and helps out with the coaching I do for my daughters team. But he just doesn't want to do contact at the moment so that's him lost to the club along with lots of other kids. You look at Oz where my niece and nephew started mini rugby but have been playing in touch teams for the last 10 years

[Paddington Bear]

Good read - but very sad. Maybe they could start by just running 7s teams and running a few tournaments - and get a girls side going as well. My local club has seen a big increase in girls rugby, thanks in part to my daughter that organises a fair bit of it. A year ago they had to borrow players for their u16 side - last Friday they had enough spare players to were lend them to the opposition to get the game on. Two of my Grand Daughters play and love it - the eldest in now in the Quins academy and it is only her 4th season.

Women and girls sport is so much better at being flexible on this sort of stuff. A club like the one in the article is never going back to playing a full calendar of 18 league games with training on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but possibly as you say puts out a 7s team/touch/a couple of junior sides etc. the options don’t really exist though

I was just having this conversation with my son yesterday. He loves rugby and comes and helps out with the coaching I do for my daughters team. But he just doesn't want to do contact at the moment so that's him lost to the club along with lots of other kids. You look at Oz where my niece and nephew started mini rugby but have been playing in touch teams for the last 10 years

I think we’ve both said similar things before about the lack of touch options in club rugby. The central reason I don’t play is that I don’t want to get hurt and saw too many nasty injuries, if there was the option of being able to chuck the ball around in a semi competitive touch league of maybe 10 games I’d jump at it and suspect it’s a far easier sell

[Tichtheid]

Women and girls sport is so much better at being flexible on this sort of stuff. A club like the one in the article is never going back to playing a full calendar of 18 league games with training on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but possibly as you say puts out a 7s team/touch/a couple of junior sides etc. the options don’t really exist though

I was just having this conversation with my son yesterday. He loves rugby and comes and helps out with the coaching I do for my daughters team. But he just doesn't want to do contact at the moment so that's him lost to the club along with lots of other kids. You look at Oz where my niece and nephew started mini rugby but have been playing in touch teams for the last 10 years

I think we’ve both said similar things before about the lack of touch options in club rugby. The central reason I don’t play is that I don’t want to get hurt and saw too many nasty injuries, if there was the option of being able to chuck the ball around in a semi competitive touch league of maybe 10 games I’d jump at it and suspect it’s a far easier sell

A few weeks ago I was down at training with my local club. I was standing in a defensive line as the backs ran through some moves unopposed save for us standing there in position, me in my parka, wellies and glasses.

I could feel my blood beginning to boil and thought, "well, maybe I could...."

Then reality kicked in as I bent over to pick up a ball and the pain in my knee reminded me that I'm actually old.

[Paddington Bear]

I was just having this conversation with my son yesterday. He loves rugby and comes and helps out with the coaching I do for my daughters team. But he just doesn't want to do contact at the moment so that's him lost to the club along with lots of other kids. You look at Oz where my niece and nephew started mini rugby but have been playing in touch teams for the last 10 years

I think we’ve both said similar things before about the lack of touch options in club rugby. The central reason I don’t play is that I don’t want to get hurt and saw too many nasty injuries, if there was the option of being able to chuck the ball around in a semi competitive touch league of maybe 10 games I’d jump at it and suspect it’s a far easier sell

A few weeks ago I was down at training with my local club. I was standing in a defensive line as the backs ran through some moves unopposed save for us standing there in position, me in my parka, wellies and glasses.

I could feel my blood beginning to boil and thought, "well, maybe I could...."

Then reality kicked in as I bent over to pick up a ball and the pain in my knee reminded me that I'm actually old.

Love it

[Uncle fester]

I was just having this conversation with my son yesterday. He loves rugby and comes and helps out with the coaching I do for my daughters team. But he just doesn't want to do contact at the moment so that's him lost to the club along with lots of other kids. You look at Oz where my niece and nephew started mini rugby but have been playing in touch teams for the last 10 years

I think we’ve both said similar things before about the lack of touch options in club rugby. The central reason I don’t play is that I don’t want to get hurt and saw too many nasty injuries, if there was the option of being able to chuck the ball around in a semi competitive touch league of maybe 10 games I’d jump at it and suspect it’s a far easier sell

A few weeks ago I was down at training with my local club. I was standing in a defensive line as the backs ran through some moves unopposed save for us standing there in position, me in my parka, wellies and glasses.

I could feel my blood beginning to boil and thought, "well, maybe I could...."

Then reality kicked in as I bent over to pick up a ball and the pain in my knee reminded me that I'm actually old.

Nonsense. If you spent 80 mins warming up and stretching, you'd be fine for a 5 minute run.

[SaintK]

I think we’ve both said similar things before about the lack of touch options in club rugby. The central reason I don’t play is that I don’t want to get hurt and saw too many nasty injuries, if there was the option of being able to chuck the ball around in a semi competitive touch league of maybe 10 games I’d jump at it and suspect it’s a far easier sell

A few weeks ago I was down at training with my local club. I was standing in a defensive line as the backs ran through some moves unopposed save for us standing there in position, me in my parka, wellies and glasses.

I could feel my blood beginning to boil and thought, "well, maybe I could...."

Then reality kicked in as I bent over to pick up a ball and the pain in my knee reminded me that I'm actually old.

Nonsense. If you spent 80 mins warming up and stretching, you'd be fine for a 5 minute run.

Yep! The other Saturday I tried to punt the ball back into the field of play after a conversion. Not only did I nearly break my foot and pull a calf muscle, the only saving grace from total embarrassment was that I didn't fall on my arse!!!!

[Torquemada 1420]

Caught up with the games now so time for a rant.

Referees/officials
Yeah, my pet hate really. How are there so many bad ones that get intl games? Surely nobody believed Carley was anything other than sh*t and, consequently, cannot be surprised with Saturday's events in Paris?

French mentality
Ahhh, another game as favourites with a sh*t load at stake and another game of losing heads and lack of leadership on the field. Some bollox written the last few days in English media of how Fra would win a RWC now and only SA might challenge. Sadly ability on paper really doesn't necessarily translate to reality (thankfully).

Cards (or not)
1) Mauvaka. WTAF? Sure White went all embarrassingly wendyball (another w*nk trend on the up with Lawrence another recent culprit) but irrelevant. I don't think Ramos could have complained if he'd seen yellow for the initial push too. Whatever the extent of head contact by Mauvaka, it resulted from him losing his rag. It was not a game playing incident so how could it not be red? Fre minds scrambled.

Would it have changed the result? I can't recall what the change with reds for the 6N was: is foul play still potentially a permanent expulsion? If so, not at all beyond the realms, given the momentum at the time and Fre heads, that Sco would have gone on to win. That said, given Carley's sh*t decision, no way was he extending it beyond a 20 min red.

2) Ritchie. Pretty sure he'd only been back on the field for moments when he was the one pinged for pulling down a maul motoring towards the tryline and no more than a couple of metres out. Should have been a pen try and another yellow = red. 20 minutes on top of the 10 already served.

3) The Ramos try on 58 was preceded by another maul pull down heading towards a certain try. Carley signalled the pen but decided not to ping anyone because Ramos scored pretty much under the posts. Why does the act of scoring negate the sanction? Another 10 mins.

4) B-B on Jones. Marginal one for me. Could not have complained if it had been a yellow. Still, it was great to see the smallest man on the pitch send a lump into next week! Reminded me of Chabal on Collins. I do think we are going to see more of this as tacklers get lower and still attempt to make the tackle an offensive one. As an aside, I said one reason Fra lost to SA in the RWC was selecting B-B over Villiere because B-B was too light in the tackle whereas Villiere is a freak at the breakdown. Well, B-B has worked his arse off on his defending and it shows.

5) Unknown on Mauvaka. Okay, Mauvaka should not have been on the pitch but there was a lift and drop towards head in a ruck which was completely missed by the officials.

6) The other "tip". Doesn't the law say safety is the responsibility of the lifter? Not sure being lain on top off (intentional or not) permits lifting and dumping your backpack!

The breakdown
Real smart by Sco. Whether they had already worked out Carley or simply chanced their arm, they were almost Ire illegal in the 1st half: clearing way beyond the ruck, side entry, sealing off, pillar guards beyond the ruck, the lot. It allowed Sco incredibly fast recycle ball whilst Lucu was battling all the time with his. Play to the ref and not the rules France. I have to figure Edwards tore his players a new arse at 1/2 time because Fra played the 2nd half as illegal as Sco (and Carley remained consistently sh*t). Consequently Sco ruck ball slowed and Fre sped up limiting the Scots' (not inconsequential) threat to counters......... and they were still given plenty of those by some dire kicking from the likes of Ntamack.

The FHs
Well, you knew this was coming from me (and probably should have expected it from Russell). Some moments of brilliance but
- turnover for one try
- lucky for another when Lucu was just beaten to the ball
- abject tackle attempt for another
- blindly throwing the ball into touch etc
No skin off my nose but no way should he be anywhere near a Lions starter.

Ntamack. Once again showed that despite the fire power inside and outside him, he cannot get a Fre backline moving.

"Le bomb squad"
Another of my gripes: subs. Fra (like SA) has such a depth in the fwds, it can simply use the 1st set to tire the oppos and then the subs come on and obliterate. Would I rather watch Sco style running with the ball or powerful fwds mauling a side to victory? I think you all know the answer. The system simply favours the big sides with deep squads. No subs except for injuries: let's see if Atonio could last 80 mins.

Summary
Probably the best game of the 6N. Sco scared the sh*t out of Fra playing some smart and thrilling rugby. After the Sco v Ire game, one headline said "Irish continue to live rent free in Scottish heads": the top couple of inches really is what separates winners from losers at elite sporting level and is a problem Fra has yet to resolve.

[sturginho]

Menoncello nominated again

[Kawazaki]

Menoncello nominated again

No forwards?!

[Sandstorm]

Menoncello nominated again

No forwards?!

Good question.

[Slick]

Menoncello nominated again

No forwards?!

Can’t grow the game by including forwards on social media

[Torquemada 1420]

Menoncello nominated again

No forwards?!

Can’t grow the game by including forwards on social media

Yeah: the message to parents "your kids could look like this too" probably isn't a winner.

[Tichtheid]

Cards (or not)
1) Mauvaka. WTAF? Sure White went all embarrassingly wendyball (another w*nk trend on the up with Lawrence another recent culprit) but irrelevant. I don't think Ramos could have complained if he'd seen yellow for the initial push too. Whatever the extent of head contact by Mauvaka, it resulted from him losing his rag. It was not a game playing incident so how could it not be red? Fre minds scrambled.

Would it have changed the result? I can't recall what the change with reds for the 6N was: is foul play still potentially a permanent expulsion? If so, not at all beyond the realms, given the momentum at the time and Fre heads, that Sco would have gone on to win. That said, given Carley's sh*t decision, no way was he extending it beyond a 20 min red.

The bunker is usually used for head contact in the tackle, where mitigation can be applied if the officials see it.

Full red cards usually are the result of contravention of 9:12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

I cannot think why a deliberate headbutt is not a red card and that was a deliberate headbutt, there was nothing accidental about it.

If Top of the Moon is reading this, or for anyone else who might know, what I'm unclear on is whether or not the officials in the bunker can issue a full red card as opposed to just the 20 minute one?

Whilst I'm at it, I do not understand why the yellow was not upgraded to a 20 minute card anyway.

[Yeeb]

Can’t seem to find a video that shows the France non red card headbutt, can anyone link this pls ?
(Sadly I had to take my kids to a concert so missed the last game)

From what’s been said from pretty sane posters, it should have been a red I can see

Edit - ok have seen this now, seems pretty straight red to me as was to the head, well after the whistle, and well away from the ball. I only saw one angle so maybe the Tmo decided it wasn’t direct head contact is all I can think of. That was after only 20 mins as well.

[Torquemada 1420]

Cards (or not)
1) Mauvaka. WTAF? Sure White went all embarrassingly wendyball (another w*nk trend on the up with Lawrence another recent culprit) but irrelevant. I don't think Ramos could have complained if he'd seen yellow for the initial push too. Whatever the extent of head contact by Mauvaka, it resulted from him losing his rag. It was not a game playing incident so how could it not be red? Fre minds scrambled.

Would it have changed the result? I can't recall what the change with reds for the 6N was: is foul play still potentially a permanent expulsion? If so, not at all beyond the realms, given the momentum at the time and Fre heads, that Sco would have gone on to win. That said, given Carley's sh*t decision, no way was he extending it beyond a 20 min red.

The bunker is usually used for head contact in the tackle, where mitigation can be applied if the officials see it.

Full red cards usually are the result of contravention of 9:12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

I cannot think why a deliberate headbutt is not a red card and that was a deliberate headbutt, there was nothing accidental about it.

If Top of the Moon is reading this, or for anyone else who might know, what I'm unclear on is whether or not the officials in the bunker can issue a full red card as opposed to just the 20 minute one?

Whilst I'm at it, I do not understand why the yellow was not upgraded to a 20 minute card anyway.

Another example of the abysmal refereeing and, yet again, the lip service being given to player safety. I have no idea WTF was going through Mauvaka's mind: he is absolutely not a dirty player (before now). Only to suggest, as per earlier, it highlighted just how far Fre minds had lost the plot. I'd like to think he apologised to White after the game but guess that doesn't happen in a pro era either.

[Yeeb]

Maybe the Ireland game made him dirty ?

[Marylandolorian]

Can’t seem to find a video that shows the France non red card headbutt, can anyone link this pls ?
(Sadly I had to take my kids to a concert so missed the last game)

From what’s been said from pretty sane posters, it should have been a red I can see

Edit - ok have seen this now, seems pretty straight red to me as was to the head, well after the whistle, and well away from the ball. I only saw one angle so maybe the Tmo decided it wasn’t direct head contact is all I can think of. That was after only 20 mins as well.

It’s the only short one I saw, Ramos was lucky also. As torq said, very surprised to see Mauvaka doing this.

[Marylandolorian]

Menoncello nominated again

Seeing the stats Kinghorn might be the one.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ab=players

[Jock42]

Menoncello nominated again

Seeing the stats Kinghorn might be the one.

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ab=players

It would be great to have another jock a potc but I'd give it to LBB

[Kawazaki]

I don't think it was a headbutt. If you watch it, it looks like Mauvaka's head goes to the left and below the chin of White and it's the right shoulder that hits high on the chest. If there was contact with White's head then it happened in a glancing motion to his chin area. The optics of him then grabbing his face reflected poorly on White imho.

Still definitely a YC though.

[Tichtheid]

There's a slightly clearer view of it here,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... lygq419yko


That it was a deliberate action from Mauvaka cannot be in dispute. There is nothing in that laws that I can see that says White has to be knocked out or has to suffer a broken jaw, on the contrary, the laws only mention the action of the perpetrator, ie law 9.12

A player must not physically or verbally abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes, but is not limited to, biting, punching, contact with the eye or eye area, striking with any part of the arm, shoulder, head or knee(s), stamping, trampling, tripping or kicking.

[Slick]

I don't think it was a headbutt. If you watch it, it looks like Mauvaka's head goes to the left and below the chin of White and it's the right shoulder that hits high on the chest. If there was contact with White's head then it happened in a glancing motion to his chin area. The optics of him then grabbing his face reflected poorly on White imho.

Still definitely a YC though.

You are such an English rugby gammon

[Sandstorm]

I don't think it was a headbutt. If you watch it, it looks like Mauvaka's head goes to the left and below the chin of White and it's the right shoulder that hits high on the chest. If there was contact with White's head then it happened in a glancing motion to his chin area. The optics of him then grabbing his face reflected poorly on White imho.

Still definitely a YC though.

You are such an English rugby gammon

That well-known hit called the shoulder-butt

[Slick]

I don't think it was a headbutt. If you watch it, it looks like Mauvaka's head goes to the left and below the chin of White and it's the right shoulder that hits high on the chest. If there was contact with White's head then it happened in a glancing motion to his chin area. The optics of him then grabbing his face reflected poorly on White imho.

Still definitely a YC though.

You are such an English rugby gammon

That well-known hit called the shoulder-butt

There is just a weird phenomenon on social media at the moment where all Saffers are screaming at themselves that Dupont is rubbish and English shouting to anyone that will listen that Russell is rubbish and that wasn't a headbutt.