2024/2025 Not Heineken Cup

[Slick]

Who else are you going to play?

The Glasgow Southern Hemisphere Warriors are doing ok. Let's see what you win at the end of the season. I'm guessing fuck all but who knows.

At some point it’s time to stop thrashing about, but I’ll leave that for you to decide

Who's interests does the EC serve in its current format?

Teams that don’t concede 70 (seventy) points.

Good night

[Kawazaki]

At some point it’s time to stop thrashing about, but I’ll leave that for you to decide

Who's interests does the EC serve in its current format?

Teams that don’t concede 70 (seventy) points.

Good night

They scored over 40 TBF.

And Saracens had 8 (eight) players in the starting XV who came through their academy.

Did Glasgow even have 8 players born in Scotland in their squad?

[Uncle fester]

You're dozy-like in your neediness.

[Kawazaki]

You're dozy-like in your neediness.

Not really, but while I'm here...

Fundamentally, none of us really think it's any good do we, so what's the point?

[fishfoodie]

Tigers



Other than Leinster, no URC side has made the semis since the 18/19 season (Munster). Just last season the Prem contributed Quins and Saints to the semis, neither of whom embarassed themselves (particularly Saints who were only 3 points off their opponents Leinster) and the season prior it was Exeter. Exeter and Sarries have both represented the Prem at that level and in the final during the seasons where the URC was just providing Leinster.

Don't go getting too worked up over one poor year in the Round of 16.

The French can reliably supply 3-4x teams you can see winning it, the URC 1x, the Prem ~2x

It's just Saints at the mo from the Prem, because Exeter is on the decline, & Sarries can't cheat the salary cap anymore, but I can see Bath becoming #2 until they get caught fiddling the books again.

Weird thing about Saints is, they're going well in Europe and pretty poorly in the Premiership.

It does seem like we're in the midst of a changing of the guard right now with who the dominant powers are in the league.

I think a lot of it is about the style of play that the team is comfortable with ?

Saints are comfortable with that unstructured play that Europe regularly throws up, while Quins went with the worst of England's kicking ball to the opposition & then being surprised when they pull you inside out after you've given them easy ball ????

It's nice because it puts demands on players to be capable of playing at least two styles of play, & being able to See; React, & then Change if Plan A fails; that's something that will pay dividends in the International side.

[Tichtheid]

GlasTiggers game has gone a bit runny at the 63 minute mark, the crowd know who's going to win, the teams know who's going to win and the comms know who is going to win.

[dpedin]

I expected a tough game for Glasgow tonight, particularly up front but thought they would edge it by a single score margin. I was looking forward to a tight game however Leicester were very disappointing and didn't really show up. They were well beaten up in the pack, their scrum was dismantled, their lineout dodgy and their defence in midfield and out wide was plain awful. Glasgow should have been another 20 points ahead by half time. They were very comfortable and happy to bring on raft of subs on early in 2nd half.

I couldn't decide if Glasgow were just very good or if Leicester were just plain awful? Certainly yellow cards didn't help but their English internationalists didn't show up - Cole went backwards all night long in the scrum, JVP poor kicking and service and Steward is the gift that just kept on giving for Glasgow. Both teams were missing a few first choices for the squad - Glasgow had Tuipilotu, Jones, Cummings, Dempsey, Mann, McKay, Williamson, Smith, Sutherland - but Leicester seemed to miss theirs more?

[Paddington Bear]

Just finished watching on catch up. Leicester were embarrassing. Not for losing to Glasgow who are a serious side, but for the manner they did that in. Zero game management or composure at any point, was an absolute procession.

Bar that game broadly as you would have expected results wise for the English. Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results. Quins totally outclassed and have lost a bit of the mercurial energy they’ve had in the past.

Not sure you can draw too many sweeping conclusions from this. English clubs have done fine in Europe from the current set up, they just aren’t atm.

[Tichtheid]

Ok, it's a niche interest, but I've really enjoyed Glasgow battering the Leicester scrum in this game.

[Tichtheid]

Just finished watching on catch up. Leicester were embarrassing. Not for losing to Glasgow who are a serious side, but for the manner they did that in. Zero game management or composure at any point, was an absolute procession.

Bar that game broadly as you would have expected results wise for the English. Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results. Quins totally outclassed and have lost a bit of the mercurial energy they’ve had in the past.

Not sure you can draw too many sweeping conclusions from this. English clubs have done fine in Europe from the current set up, they just aren’t atm.

PB, how did Onyeama-Christie play?

I'm very much rooting for his recovery and getting back to his best

[Paddington Bear]

Just finished watching on catch up. Leicester were embarrassing. Not for losing to Glasgow who are a serious side, but for the manner they did that in. Zero game management or composure at any point, was an absolute procession.

Bar that game broadly as you would have expected results wise for the English. Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results. Quins totally outclassed and have lost a bit of the mercurial energy they’ve had in the past.

Not sure you can draw too many sweeping conclusions from this. English clubs have done fine in Europe from the current set up, they just aren’t atm.

PB, how did Onyeama-Christie play?

I'm very much rooting for his recovery and getting back to his best

He was everywhere in the first half when we were on top, second half we were just totally dominated physically and no one could stop it. I’d expect him to do well for you guys on your summer tour, he looks motivated to make up for lost time and in good shape

[Tichtheid]

As the Glasgow Tigers match draws to a close, I have to say Glasgow have a lot to learn. They have not been firing recently and they left several scores out there tonight.

They can't be less than 100% in Dublin next week.

[Tichtheid]

Just finished watching on catch up. Leicester were embarrassing. Not for losing to Glasgow who are a serious side, but for the manner they did that in. Zero game management or composure at any point, was an absolute procession.

Bar that game broadly as you would have expected results wise for the English. Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results. Quins totally outclassed and have lost a bit of the mercurial energy they’ve had in the past.

Not sure you can draw too many sweeping conclusions from this. English clubs have done fine in Europe from the current set up, they just aren’t atm.

PB, how did Onyeama-Christie play?

I'm very much rooting for his recovery and getting back to his best

He was everywhere in the first half when we were on top, second half we were just totally dominated physically and no one could stop it. I’d expect him to do well for you guys on your summer tour, he looks motivated to make up for lost time and in good shape

Excellent, thanks!

[Hellraiser]

Today proves the point, the English Prem is overhyped, a significant level below the URC and T14...but the commentators continue to wank themselves blind over it.

The Prem's biggest problem is that defence is optional.

[Torquemada 1420]

Today proves the point, the English Prem is overhyped, a significant level below the URC and T14...but the commentators continue to wank themselves blind over it.

I'd be happy with a 20 team comp
- 6 Fre
- 6 Pre
- the rest URC st to a min of 1 side from each of the 5 countries there

The competition is called the "European" Cup and (SA debate aside) was at its strongest when the game were inter-country rivalries.

[Torquemada 1420]

Saracens won 3x ECs spending a fraction of what the French clubs and Leinster were spending.

[Torquemada 1420]

They scored over 40 TBF.

And Saracens had 8 (eight) players in the starting XV who came through their academy.

Did Glasgow even have 8 players born in Scotland in their squad?

I see 2 problems here

1) Is your valid point about mercs and if that's desirable or not. I've always hated them but recognise the argument where some countries might need them as part of longer development strategy. All sorts of "but ifs" here including the glaring one that mercs are keeping home grown players on the pine or worse. France has been transformed by the JIFF rules forcing clubs to play younger lads.

2) This from Paddington

Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results

His point is whilst Sarries are doing what you suggest**, those players aren't good enough. Which takes me back to the whole debate about Engish rugby being for posh kids and the development paths favouring lads who are bigger at an early age.

** In a game where they had effectively conceded before a ball was kicked i.e. they'll play the kids when it doesn't matter. Also, let's not forget that Sarries cheated for years and that cheating had the collateral effect of keeping development players out.

[Biffer]

The French can reliably supply 3-4x teams you can see winning it, the URC 1x, the Prem ~2x

It's just Saints at the mo from the Prem, because Exeter is on the decline, & Sarries can't cheat the salary cap anymore, but I can see Bath becoming #2 until they get caught fiddling the books again.

The URC is very competitive this year. Improved a lot since 3 years ago.

Yeah, the English & French teams hated the old format because Leinster could rest their top line players in some games in the League, & then roll them out in peak condition for the European games, & that was happening.

The thing is that the French teams were always capable of doing the same thing, because their rosters are just so big & strong; but only a couple of the English teams ever had that depth.

How has Leinster reacted to the newer, more competitive URC ? .... they still rest their best players, but they now have a B-Team that is bloody good in it's own right, as they showed in SA; & they're still on top of the league !

It was great to see Munster getting a bit of dog back in their game, & Beirne was unbelievable; there was real intent in his tackles

I'm going to break the habit of a lifetime & say a prayer for Ulster tonight, because Bordeaux, if they want, can make you look very, very bad, & it's almost cruel.

I feel obligated to point out that Leinster have not won the new, more competitive URC.

[Kawazaki]

They scored over 40 TBF.

And Saracens had 8 (eight) players in the starting XV who came through their academy.

Did Glasgow even have 8 players born in Scotland in their squad?

I see 2 problems here

1) Is your valid point about mercs and if that's desirable or not. I've always hated them but recognise the argument where some countries might need them as part of longer development strategy. All sorts of "but ifs" here including the glaring one that mercs are keeping home grown players on the pine or worse. France has been transformed by the JIFF rules forcing clubs to play younger lads.

2) This from Paddington

Sarries can take a lot of credit for the first half in Toulon, a second half where Toulon put on the power game against guys who wouldn’t get close to a Prem side had inevitable results

His point is whilst Sarries are doing what you suggest**, those players aren't good enough. Which takes me back to the whole debate about Engish rugby being for posh kids and the development paths favouring lads who are bigger at an early age.

** In a game where they had effectively conceded before a ball was kicked i.e. they'll play the kids when it doesn't matter. Also, let's not forget that Sarries cheated for years and that cheating had the collateral effect of keeping development players out.

The England players Saracens rested were, with one exception, also Saracens academy players.

And Saracens 'cheating' had the 'collateral effect' of keeping academy developed players in, not out. It was the academy players that got the deals.

So, apart from being colossally wrong, you at least tried.

[Paddington Bear]

You need to make your peace with English rugby being what it is, played and supported by the people it is. It’s not changing and bringing through a disproportionately private school group hasn’t stopped England and English clubs from being dominant in the past, nor caused major issues for Ireland whilst they’ve been dominant more recently.

The Premiership is a great league in a number of ways, defence is however very much secondary. Coupled with the fact that French squads seem double the size it has predictable results. And in truth I don’t think a single English side this year feels they can genuinely win the comp, so why take it too seriously when the Premiership has a wacky race for the playoffs incoming?

Northampton excepted for the obvious reason that despite putting 40 past a top 14 club they are out of the title race so may as well have a crack.

[SaintK]

You need to make your peace with English rugby being what it is, played and supported by the people it is. It’s not changing and bringing through a disproportionately private school group hasn’t stopped England and English clubs from being dominant in the past, nor caused major issues for Ireland whilst they’ve been dominant more recently.

The Premiership is a great league in a number of ways, defence is however very much secondary. Coupled with the fact that French squads seem double the size it has predictable results. And in truth I don’t think a single English side this year feels they can genuinely win the comp, so why take it too seriously when the Premiership has a wacky race for the playoffs incoming?

Northampton excepted for the obvious reason that despite putting 40 past a top 14 club they are out of the title race so may as well have a crack.

Well summed up!

[sockwithaticket]

The URC is very competitive this year. Improved a lot since 3 years ago.

Yeah, the English & French teams hated the old format because Leinster could rest their top line players in some games in the League, & then roll them out in peak condition for the European games, & that was happening.

The thing is that the French teams were always capable of doing the same thing, because their rosters are just so big & strong; but only a couple of the English teams ever had that depth.

How has Leinster reacted to the newer, more competitive URC ? .... they still rest their best players, but they now have a B-Team that is bloody good in it's own right, as they showed in SA; & they're still on top of the league !

It was great to see Munster getting a bit of dog back in their game, & Beirne was unbelievable; there was real intent in his tackles

I'm going to break the habit of a lifetime & say a prayer for Ulster tonight, because Bordeaux, if they want, can make you look very, very bad, & it's almost cruel.

I feel obligated to point out that Leinster have not won the new, more competitive URC.

And they haven't won Europe since the 17/18 season despite it ostensibly being their focus (or so Leinster fans on reddit say).

[westport]

UBB v Ulster with lots of changes for UBB, Le Beep Beep having a week off, but still have Penaud and Lucu in.

[sockwithaticket]

Penaud didn't even looking like he was going particularly quickly there.

[sockwithaticket]

Starting to look like a Bordeaux vs. Clock RFC type of game already.

[Uncle fester]

Starting to look like a Bordeaux vs. Clock RFC type of game already.

Shame. Munster v Ulster would have been fun. Bordeaux would have a decent shot at the cup this year.

[sockwithaticket]

Starting to look like a Bordeaux vs. Clock RFC type of game already.

Shame. Munster v Ulster would have been fun. Bordeaux would have a decent shot at the cup this year.

Having said that, Ulster have come back well and Bordeaux slacked off a bit.

[westport]

Fair play to Ulster they are fighting all the way but UBB have too much.

[Oxbow]

Bet that poor fella feels a right tit. And is probably shitting himself.

[Stranger]

This game isn't starting for a while.

[Simian]

can they not just use a different ball?

[Oxbow]

can they not just use a different ball?

I shouldn't have laughed, but...

[Stranger]

can they not just use a different ball?

I shouldn't but

[sockwithaticket]

Ominous. Likely another absolute paddling for a Prem side.

[Torquemada 1420]

You need to make your peace with English rugby being what it is, played and supported by the people it is. It’s not changing and bringing through a disproportionately private school group hasn’t stopped England and English clubs from being dominant in the past, nor caused major issues for Ireland whilst they’ve been dominant more recently.

The Premiership is a great league in a number of ways, defence is however very much secondary. Coupled with the fact that French squads seem double the size it has predictable results. And in truth I don’t think a single English side this year feels they can genuinely win the comp, so why take it too seriously when the Premiership has a wacky race for the playoffs incoming?

Northampton excepted for the obvious reason that despite putting 40 past a top 14 club they are out of the title race so may as well have a crack.

Your first paragraph is true and maybe too early to go Jim Morrisson and say it's the end, but Eng rugby seems to be in a lot of trouble from the top down.

Big article in the Torygraph about the Prem not bothering with defending. And it generally has made for a better spectacle (certainly more than the at least 50% of turgid sh*te we see in the T14 every week). However
i) It feels like we are reaching a bit of Harlem Globe Trotters about it all now. When defenders aren't even trying, racking up dozens of points just becomes cheapened.
ii) The reality is unless the laws of the game change substantially, the like of Saints cannot play to entertain when they can't get the ball.

[Torquemada 1420]

Meantime Toulouse guilty of doing what RCT and UBB did: freewheeling long before the game is put to bed or, in the case of Toulon, before the ball was even kicked.

PS Graou is still a terrible SH.

[OomStruisbaai]

Sale Sharks on a roll

[Torquemada 1420]

Ntamack can't catch a ball. Outcome = try.

[sockwithaticket]

Toulouse very underwhelming after the quick start.

[Torquemada 1420]

Until Fre clubs invest time in teaching players to catch a high ball, oppos. will continue with doing just that and profiting from it.

Bernol had an article specifically on this matter several weeks ago: asking why it remains a weakness not addressed in France.