B&I Lions 2025 Official Thread

[Punter15]

Lock
- One of the only clear areas of strength for England. Don't think anyone can really argue with Itoje and Chessum, with Martin also being a strong option. McCarthy's prone to dumb penalties from what little I've seen of him, but he's more than handy. Beirne was down as a lock for Ireland this 6N, may as well run with that here too, not sure why Warburton of all people was moving him into the back row.
- Don't rate Ryan. Rowlands has been decent in the past, but he had a poor 6N. Gilchrist has been surprisingly good for Scotland, but I wouldn't say he's been better than the English or Irish options.

Announced today that Martin will miss the rest of the Prem season and the Lions tour!!!

Well that's a bugger. Gilchrist in I guess.

Whoever goes will be 5th choice, so a possible in for Lawes to add leadership to the midweek team and set the tone.

[Slick]

Lock
- One of the only clear areas of strength for England. Don't think anyone can really argue with Itoje and Chessum, with Martin also being a strong option. McCarthy's prone to dumb penalties from what little I've seen of him, but he's more than handy. Beirne was down as a lock for Ireland this 6N, may as well run with that here too, not sure why Warburton of all people was moving him into the back row.
- Don't rate Ryan. Rowlands has been decent in the past, but he had a poor 6N. Gilchrist has been surprisingly good for Scotland, but I wouldn't say he's been better than the English or Irish options.

Announced today that Martin will miss the rest of the Prem season and the Lions tour!!!

Well that's a bugger. Gilchrist in I guess.

I'd love to see Gilchrist get a tour. I don't think any of us would have him in our initial squad but he really deserves it. It's amazing how much Edinburgh and Scotland suffer when he is not playing

[sockwithaticket]

Announced today that Martin will miss the rest of the Prem season and the Lions tour!!!

Well that's a bugger. Gilchrist in I guess.

Whoever goes will be 5th choice, so a possible in for Lawes to add leadership to the midweek team and set the tone.

Brive are 2nd in ProD2 and the league final will be June 7th. Like any France-based players, the French season just may run too late for him to be considered.

I also have no idea how he's been playing there tbh. Could be that someone in the Prem or URC is in better form.

[SaintK]

Scrum Half
- Warburton picked the only three credible options.

Ben White is a more than credible option, I'd have him just behind Gibson-Park

You have him ahead of Mitchell?!

Not on Mitchell's performance on Saturday. Best performance from an English scrum half I've seen for years.

[Slick]

Ben White is a more than credible option, I'd have him just behind Gibson-Park

You have him ahead of Mitchell?!

Not on Mitchell's performance on Saturday. Best performance from an English scrum half I've seen for years.

Yup, fair comment. But haven't you lot been moaning about him in England shirt for ages?

[sockwithaticket]

I think we've lamented him looking a bit restricted and not being able to play to his strengths, but I don't think anyone's seriously suggested he's anything other than England's nailed on first choice.

[SaintK]

You have him ahead of Mitchell?!

Not on Mitchell's performance on Saturday. Best performance from an English scrum half I've seen for years.

Yup, fair comment. But haven't you lot been moaning about him in England shirt for ages?

Think most of the moaning was with the coaches who we’re proscribing the way he should play
Difference when F Smith and Dingwall were selected was amazing

[Big D]

Not on Mitchell's performance on Saturday. Best performance from an English scrum half I've seen for years.

Yup, fair comment. But haven't you lot been moaning about him in England shirt for ages?

Think most of the moaning was with the coaches who we’re proscribing the way he should play
Difference when F Smith and Dingwall were selected was amazing

If I'm picking the squad it's Williams that would miss out. But a Welsh man is going to break the tie somewhere otherwise there'd be none of them in the squad so who knows.

[clydecloggie]

Yup, fair comment. But haven't you lot been moaning about him in England shirt for ages?

Think most of the moaning was with the coaches who we’re proscribing the way he should play
Difference when F Smith and Dingwall were selected was amazing

If I'm picking the squad it's Williams that would miss out. But a Welsh man is going to break the tie somewhere otherwise there'd be none of them in the squad so who knows.

Williams, Lake and Morgan - 2 of those 3 will travel.

[Yeeb]

Well that's a bugger. Gilchrist in I guess.

Whoever goes will be 5th choice, so a possible in for Lawes to add leadership to the midweek team and set the tone.

Brive are 2nd in ProD2 and the league final will be June 7th. Like any France-based players, the French season just may run too late for him to be considered.

I also have no idea how he's been playing there tbh. Could be that someone in the Prem or URC is in better form.

Apparently lawes has been carving it up down in France , haven’t seen him myself this season but I can imagine he’s still pretty elite

[Punter15]

Well that's a bugger. Gilchrist in I guess.

Whoever goes will be 5th choice, so a possible in for Lawes to add leadership to the midweek team and set the tone.

Brive are 2nd in ProD2 and the league final will be June 7th. Like any France-based players, the French season just may run too late for him to be considered.

I also have no idea how he's been playing there tbh. Could be that someone in the Prem or URC is in better form.

Yep, but either way I would hope that Faz will pick a few experienced players to lead the dirt trackers. They are vital, rather than also rans.

[dpedin]

Assuming he will be fit, which he should be, then Tuipulotu is captain for me! guaranteed to play at 12 and has experience as captain. Also an excellent decision maker on the pitch.

[Big D]

Think most of the moaning was with the coaches who we’re proscribing the way he should play
Difference when F Smith and Dingwall were selected was amazing

If I'm picking the squad it's Williams that would miss out. But a Welsh man is going to break the tie somewhere otherwise there'd be none of them in the squad so who knows.

Williams, Lake and Morgan - 2 of those 3 will travel.

I suspect so, but I think being Welsh plays a part in that when it comes to breaking the tie a little.

[Happyhooker]

Assuming he will be fit, which he should be, then Tuipulotu is captain for me! guaranteed to play at 12 and has experience as captain. Also an excellent decision maker on the pitch.

Despite not having played internationals for how many months? How much club rugby has he played?

[Kawazaki]

all the best Lions captains have been super double hard bastards (McBride, Jonno, Calder) and there just aren't any this time round.

Virtually everyone who plays test rugby is a very hard bastard. It's fucking brutal.

Tom Curry is, by most accounts, a crazy motherfucker with zero thoughts for his own wellbeing when he throws himself into the spokes. Ditto for Earl, Cowan-Dickie, Smith (Fin), Willisx2 etc etc etc etc...

[TartanBear]

Assuming he will be fit, which he should be, then Tuipulotu is captain for me! guaranteed to play at 12 and has experience as captain. Also an excellent decision maker on the pitch.

Despite not having played internationals for how many months? How much club rugby has he played?

There is not a chance ST will be captain or was ever in the conversation. Quite apart from the question of whether he will return and play as well as he can, I see no world where the B&I Lions select a Scottish player considered Australian by all of the other home nations as captain. Hopefully Maro does a good job. If selected in the squad, I reckon Tuipulotu can do a decent job marshalling the backs in the teams for which he’s chosen, particularly in defence. By all accounts, a very good communicator in the heat of the battle. Also hard as nails.

[Big D]

Congrats to Maro. Massive honour and well deserved.

[Gumboot]

Yep, congrats to Captain Hot Dog.

[Yeeb]

Am pleased for him, has evolved full circle from exciting newcomer , shouty clappy showboater and loss of form, and back to excellent player with leader characteristics and performances. As big a shoe in for captaincy & test position about as we’ve had since Martin Johnson really. Hope he gets some good lieutenants support too.

Wonder if any of those parting with £71 are upset the news got released before their big party ?

[Uncle fester]

Sad for POM but he'll be a good backup if anything happens to Itoje.

[Yeeb]

Sad for POM but he'll be a good backup if anything happens to Itoje.

Am sure he will be glaring at the tv screen on the other side of the planet whatever happens to Itoje.

[SaintK]

Am pleased for him, has evolved full circle from exciting newcomer , shouty clappy showboater and loss of form, and back to excellent player with leader characteristics and performances. As big a shoe in for captaincy & test position about as we’ve had since Martin Johnson really. Hope he gets some good lieutenants support too.

Wonder if any of those parting with £71 are upset the news got released before their big party ?

Lions captain is always announced prior to the rest of the team and usually attends the team announcement.
Hopefully he'll be as good a leader as Jonno and Alun Wyn Jones

[Yr Alban]

You just know there will be an outrage at too many English being selected & not enough worlds best team World Cup winning Irish selected.

I suspect the most wailing and gnashing of teeth about too many English (at least on this bored) will come from the Scots, who 6 months ago were expecting the Lions selections to be split evenly between the Irish forwards and Scottish backs with perhaps 1 or 2 English and Welsh players to make up the numbers.

Nah, never expected that. Russell, Tuipulotu, Jones, Van der Merwe and Kinghorn will certainly tour from the backs. Darcy Graham deserves it but could easily be overlooked. Zander Fagerson probably the only Scottish forward. Again, Ritchie deserves it but probably won’t be picked. So I expect 6 Scotland players, any more is a bonus.

[Tichtheid]

You just know there will be an outrage at too many English being selected & not enough worlds best team World Cup winning Irish selected.

I suspect the most wailing and gnashing of teeth about too many English (at least on this bored) will come from the Scots, who 6 months ago were expecting the Lions selections to be split evenly between the Irish forwards and Scottish backs with perhaps 1 or 2 English and Welsh players to make up the numbers.

Nah, never expected that. Russell, Tuipulotu, Jones, Van der Merwe and Kinghorn will certainly tour from the backs. Darcy Graham deserves it but could easily be overlooked. Zander Fagerson probably the only Scottish forward. Again, Ritchie deserves it but probably won’t be picked. So I expect 6 Scotland players, any more is a bonus.

I like when players you might not expect make the cut. I remember Finlay Calder saying he was delighted that Derek White was selected, he was an integral part of our pack back then but maybe others didn’t see it.
The video of the Gloucester players’ reaction to Chris Harris’s name being read out was brilliant.

I’d love to see Darcy Graham make it.

[Paddington Bear]

For obvious reasons I’ve followed Maro’s career from the very beginning, and whilst it’s taken longer for him than I anticipated his rise to leadership has brought out the very best in him, as anyone paying attention (Eddie…?) knew it would.

I’m delighted for him. I don’t necessarily see captaining the Lions to be a higher honour than captaining England, beyond the esteem it shows he is held in across the Home Nations, but I’ve no doubt it means the world to him and his family.


Beyond that, on selection I just hope there’s some outrage

[Slick]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

[dpedin]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

Jealousy? He really is the best 10 available for all the reasons we know about. Finn Smith is next best available and for me probably Jordan as a bench option as he can cover 12 and 15 at this level as well. Marcus Smith is too erratic and poor defensively at 15 and Prendergast showed against Northampton why he isn't an option in a tight game, flimsy defence and wilted under pressure. I wouldn't have Farrell anywhere near the squad, Ford is limited and the other Irish options haven't done enough to warrant a place in the squad.

There is also something about how the Aussies will play the game, I suspect they will try and keep the ball moving, go through multi phases, keep it in play and go for the unstructured game throwing the ball wide at every opportunity. We need a 10 who can cope with this and for me it is Russell who is best suited to this, it is what he does with Scotland. Prendergast can run a game behind a dominant pack going through their pre set routines, most 10s can, but once the game broke up against Northampton he looked lost and exposed. F Smith looked very comfortable against Leinster. Ford is also limited in this type of game and Farrell is yesterdays man..

[Paddington Bear]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

What’s his record against Oz? England have only lost twice to Australia since the 2015 world cup

[SaintK]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

Links?
A lot of the "English" rugby journalists are Welsh!!!!

[SaintK]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

Jealousy? He really is the best 10 available for all the reasons we know about. Finn Smith is next best available and for me probably Jordan as a bench option as he can cover 12 and 15 at this level as well. Marcus Smith is too erratic and poor defensively at 15 and Prendergast showed against Northampton why he isn't an option in a tight game, flimsy defence and wilted under pressure. I wouldn't have Farrell anywhere near the squad, Ford is limited and the other Irish options haven't done enough to warrant a place in the squad.

There is also something about how the Aussies will play the game, I suspect they will try and keep the ball moving, go through multi phases, keep it in play and go for the unstructured game throwing the ball wide at every opportunity. We need a 10 who can cope with this and for me it is Russell who is best suited to this, it is what he does with Scotland. Prendergast can run a game behind a dominant pack going through their pre set routines, most 10s can, but once the game broke up against Northampton he looked lost and exposed. F Smith looked very comfortable against Leinster. Ford is also limited in this type of game and Farrell is yesterdays man..

some of you guys are paranoid!!!

[Slick]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

What’s his record against Oz? England have only lost twice to Australia since the 2015 world cup

BETTER.

We'll leave it there

[Paddington Bear]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

What’s his record against Oz? England have only lost twice to Australia since the 2015 world cup

BETTER.

We'll leave it there

Speaking your truth

[Hal Jordan]

When does the screaming start in earnest?

[Yr Alban]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).

Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.

This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.

[Yeeb]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).

Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.

This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.

A mate cmon, get the tiny wee violin out , Scotland have has just as much dross as England Billy36 style test no hopers picked , as anyone else.
Teapot Peter wright top of the pyramid for lions joirneymanship.

This tour should really be one of scotlands largest contingent ever. Agree totally that dirtrackers role has diminished since 97, because the modern era just has much shorter tours as it’s all about the £€$

[SaintK]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).

Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.

This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.

What ever the hate campaign against Hogg was pales into absolute insignifigance compared to the hate Farrell received.
Subsequent events tell us that Hogg is complete twat of a man as well as you allude to.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm still not getting the seeming English journos problem with Russell. They are at it again this morning trying every possible combination to suggest he shouldn't be there.

I've heard quite often that he hasn't beaten Ireland. True, but his record against Australia is better than England and he has basically had the entire England team as his bitches for years. It's all very odd.

It’s odd all right, but it’s exactly - EXACTLY- what happened with Hogg on the last tour. In the eyes of some, a Scotland player simply isn’t allowed to be the best in his position. There was a hate campaign against Hogg as well. It didn’t work at first, but probably did eventually when he was dropped for the third Test. (Edit - I’m talking solely about Hogg as a player here. It goes without saying, in the light of subsequent events, that he is an awful person).

Similarly - and I’ll get shit for this, but hey ho - I expect that the only Scotland players picked in the squad today will be the ones who everyone expects to be in or around the Test 23. Scotland don’t get fringe or squad players selected. It’s a hangover from the 3 or 4 tours when we had hardly anyone good enough to tour. Either you make it impossible for the manager to leave you out, or they will.

This sounds bitter, but it isn’t really. I’ve come to accept it. The players who really deserved to tour last time did, and it will mostly be the same this time. And the tour is mostly about the Tests now. The role of the dirt trackers is much less than it used to be.

I suspect what you might have viewed as a hate campaign was mostly people not agreeing that he was definitively the best option. Not a hard position to take when Anthony Watson was also on tour.

[Paddington Bear]

Telegraph believes Faz will be touring - as SaintK says if you want to see a hate campaign follow that on social media in an hour or so

[Slick]

Telegraph believes Faz will be touring - as SaintK says if you want to see a hate campaign follow that on social media in an hour or so

The Times as well.

I'm all revved up.

To be fair, that would be a ludicrous decision.

[sockwithaticket]

Tbf including Midi Olympique's Top 14 "Flop of the season" is understandably controversial.